Ike E3 1.0.8 Patch changes + discussion

[san.]

Was Fmash buffed or are the blast zones on omega stages just shorter than usual?

Not so sure yet, let me check.

Edit: Nope, not stronger.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Not so sure yet, let me check.

Edit: Nope, not stronger.

Fsmash and up air need more knock back...

 

[san.]

Fsmash and up air need more knock back...

I would've agreed with you before on uair, but they lowered the landing lag so much that it's pretty dang good now. I'd still like it if it did 12% though

Fsmash just needs the sourspots removed, that's it. Usmash too.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm not worried about Link. I think it's too laggy and you can just DI anything super punishable (utilt and usmash were missing when I tested), while we have much better rewards off of a throw.

It's percent/character dependent and I am aware at like 0% D-throw U-tilt doesn't register a combo, but I'm pretty certain that around 25% or so D-throw U-tilt from Link is a true combo. More importantly though, the angle change on D-throw makes it harder to escape from any chases, and the range buff on grab is a pretty big deal esp since Ike's landing options are not very strong.

Though you probably have a point that the F-air buff is important for Ike's grab game. I'll have to look into that. I always felt what kept Ike relevant against Link was the difference in the power of their grab setups, and that has narrowed considerably. Link has a few other small but not insignificant buffs in the consistency of his U-smash and the speed of his D-tilt that are worth keeping in mind, though they probably matter less against Ike specifically than they do against like...smaller characters.

I don't want to search...can Ike really reliably KO confirm Fox with U-throw F-air? Like, Fox is stupid to play against, but if Ike at least has that, then that's great.

 

[san.]

It's percent/character dependent and I am aware at like 0% D-throw U-tilt doesn't register a combo, but I'm pretty certain that around 25% or so D-throw U-tilt from Link is a true combo. More importantly though, the angle change on D-throw makes it harder to escape from any chases, and the range buff on grab is a pretty big deal esp since Ike's landing options are not very strong.

Though you probably have a point that the F-air buff is important for Ike's grab game. I'll have to look into that. I always felt what kept Ike relevant against Link was the difference in the power of their grab setups, and that has narrowed considerably. Link has a few other small but not insignificant buffs in the consistency of his U-smash and the speed of his D-tilt that are worth keeping in mind, though they probably matter less against Ike specifically than they do against like...smaller characters.

I don't want to search...can Ike really reliably KO confirm Fox with U-throw F-air? Like, Fox is stupid to play against, but if Ike at least has that, then that's great.

He has this on everyone, as long as fair is relatively fresh. It's even easier on Fox.

 

[critter17]

I want to say Ike's utilt has more lingering hitboxes like what you guys previously mentioned. I think I would miss but it ends up clipping them instead.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

I think ike needs to do the mu chart over again. I'm willing to bet everything just got better for him. His neutral is so much better now and that new kirby stage just made ike sleep good. Like san said... Best ike stage lmfao, it gives us free BF everytime because they will start striking that 64 stage out of fear. to Battlefield we go.

 

[ksizl4life]

Hey Ike players, I was thinking of making a side by side comparison series on the new patch comparing to the old and decided to start with Ike, so I'm gauging interest here. I just made a sample for now but the data here seems inaccurate after testing, at least with Ftilt. 1.0.8 ftilt is active on frame 13, not 12.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGBQNe-VV0E

Check it out and let me know if you'd like me to keep it going with Ike/rest of the cast.

 

[-RedX-]

Good stuff. It'd be nice if you can keep going.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

I agree with redX

 

[AN(M)ist]

Is the hitbox for ftilt active for only 1 frame? I thought it was from little after Ike's swing action to little before his swing completion, so according to the video's shown frames it would be 12 to 14.

BTW, great intiative man, I'd love to see it completed for all of Ike's moveset, then maybe we could make a gif out of it and show the whole hitbox active frames as well as endlag/IASA frame at which Ike can begin moving again. Like how it was done for Brawl.

 

[ksizl4life]

Cool guys, working on it now. btw, i cant for the life of me drag out that dash attack sour spot that did 5 percent in 1.0.7 and now does 9 percent. what part do i have to hit to bring that out? id like to include it in the video but wont be able to if i never see it happen .

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Man these changes... Yep maining ike. Good bye lil mac but i must return to roots...

I remember when ike mains said that ike was a better character with customs on. So is ike on ****** mode now with customs on?

 

[AN(M)ist]

Ike with customs is no sympathy mode in his own no sympathy tier.

 

[Arrei]

According to the old frame data chart, Ftilt is active for 2 frames, previously 15-16. So I guess the Ftilt really was sped up to 13, and not 12, since the old one hits at 15 in the video.

It's still one of the slowest Ftilts in the game, but it really goes to show, it's crazy how much difference just a few frames can make. It felt so much clunkier before with just those two frames of prep time in there.

I mean, hell, at least it's faster than Mario's FSmash now, even if the difference in power between the two increased even more as a tradeoff. It's about on par with Fox's Fsmash now, I think. Same startup, just about the same KO percentage on the sweetspots, 2% less damage but disjointed.

Cool guys, working on it now. btw, i cant for the life of me drag out that dash attack sour spot that did 5 percent in 1.0.7 and now does 9 percent. what part do i have to hit to bring that out? id like to include it in the video but wont be able to if i never see it happen .

It's only on the late hitbox, what was formerly frames 20-22, so I suspect this only works when an enemy runs or falls into the sword as Ike lingers in his pose for a moment right after the initial frames. I was able to do it once on training Mario after throwing him into the air, but only once.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Something minor but it's still something. When you dtilt someone hanging onto the ledge, depending on how stale your dtilt is and what percent they are at it you can do a dtilt into dash attack if they are on the ledge. I was able to kill somebody with it because of how stale the dtilt was, which allowed a combo into dash attack. Keep in mind they have to be hanging on the ledge. If not you can just do the ordinary dtilt, fair.

 

[Arrei]

Is it worth doing that over Fsmashing them, though? I presume you're talking about regrabs, since trying to catch the ledgesnap with Dtilt rarely works out.

 

[ReroRero]

It's like christmas

 

[ksizl4life]

Hope ya'll enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7TmFdK_bVE

 

[DarkStar64]

Someone on the development team for Smash 4 must have a soft spot for our radiant hero.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Hope ya'll enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7TmFdK_bVE

While the video was good, something that was pointed out in another topic: shield doesn't pop frame one. It pops frame two. Don't know if that effects your numbers or not.

 

[-RedX-]

While the video was good, something that was pointed out in another topic: shield doesn't pop frame one. It pops frame two. Don't know if that effects your numbers or not.

I thought that was debunked? I believe the shield animation comes out frame 2 but you'll still shield anything on frame 1.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Well, if he's using it to count frames, the animation is what matters

 

[Renegade TX2000]

I'm getting so much utility off ikes dash attack it's not even funny. Rage + Ike + Dash Attack = What's a back air?

 

[-RedX-]

Well, if he's using it to count frames, the animation is what matters

Ohh, right. Derp.
Yea, I'm loving the Dash Attack buff too. Puts the biggest smile on my face when it kills.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Ohh, right. Derp.
Yea, I'm loving the Dash Attack buff too. Puts the biggest smile on my face when it kills.

They will be over 110% and they are so worried about my fair and bair that I'm actually looking to land the dash attack in the first place. It gives ikes often used kill moves some breathing space which makes ike very difficult to predict now.

 

[Arrei]

Anyone know what percent it starts killing reliably? I know it kills training Mario at 100% on the sweetspot at the edge without rage, but I'd like to know when it's able to kill regardless of DI.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Anyone know what percent it starts killing reliably? I know it kills training Mario at 100% on the sweetspot at the edge without rage, but I'd like to know when it's able to kill regardless of DI.

All I know is when they are above 100% and i'm above 70% Dash attack becomes a problem

 

[the king of murder]

I would say that DA now kills as early as our old Ftilt. I was able to kill R.O.B at 117% played by a human who knew how to DI. It was around the edge but not quite there. I can't quite recall if I was in rage percent though. If you want a rough estimation, 120% seems to be the mark of DA kills and even earlier with rage and/or if you are near the ledge.(Of course weight is a factor too)

Do CPU DI? I might be able to test it more reliably then.

I am loving the new DA btw. I always wished for a usable DA for Ike and now he has received it.

All these buffs. I hope Japan will continue to consider Ike "low tier".

 

[ksizl4life]

While the video was good, something that was pointed out in another topic: shield doesn't pop frame one. It pops frame two. Don't know if that effects your numbers or not.

Thanks but it doesnt affect the numbers. I was actually unsure if shield was frame 1 in this game so i also tested doing jab as soon as possible. In the same frame that frame 1 of shield happens(character stands upright, shield doesnt shine out yet), frame 1 of jab would also appear. I used shield in the video because it stands out better.

 

[san.]

I think this has a high chance of being placebo, but does any else think that Ike has a better hitbox in the beginning and end of uair?
Edit: Yep, not true

 

[-RedX-]

Nah, Upthrow->Uair feels just as hard pre-patch while Uthrow->Fair feels free.
On the topic of placebo, I actually think Jab1 might have been sped up to 3 frames of startup...

 

[Trueblade]

On a similar note, does anyone else think Dair's meteor hitbox got wider? It seems like I'm hitting more to the side with it now.

 

[san.]

Yep, not true.

Credit to @Thinkaman

Ike
---
Jab1
    transition to jab2
        frame 13 -> 10
Jab2
    new hitbox added as hitbox 1; old hitbox 1 changed to hitbox 2
    hitbox 0
        y 8.0 -> 7.5
    new hitbox 1
        angle 80 (others are 65)
        kbg 80 (others are 80/100)
        wbg 25 (others are 40/50)
        size 3.5
Jab3
    hitboxes appear on frame 7 -> 6 (1 frame faster)
    hitbox 3
        size 2.5 -> 3.2
    hitbox duration 3 -> 4 frames
Dash Attack
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 0-17 (3 frames faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 18 -> 17 (4 frames faster total?)
    hitbox 0
        damage 10 -> 14
        angle 55 -> 52
        kbg 70 -> 78
        size 6.0 -> 6.3
        hitlag 1.0 -> 1.2
    hitbox 1
        damage 8 -> 11
        angle 55 -> 52
        kbg 70 -> 78
    hitbox 2
        damage 5 -> 9

Ftilt (all)
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 0-14 (2 frames faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 15 -> 14 (3 frames faster total?)
    all 3 old hitboxes replaced with 1 new one
    new hitbox
        bone 1000 -> 1
        damage 14/14/12 -> 12.5
Utilt
    initial hitbox
        y 12.0 -> 13.0
    delayed hitbox
        y 10.5 -> 12.0
        lasts until frame 19 -> 22 (duration 5 -> 8 frames)
Fair
    hitboxes appear on frame 16 -> 14 (2 frames faster)
    hitbox 0
        y 9.0 -> 10.5
    hitbox 1
        y 6.2 -> 6.75
    hitbox 2
        y 4.0 -> 3.0
Some 1.25x animation speed added to a couple unknown minor actions (non-attacks)

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I wonder what that new hitbox on Jab 2 is.

Has anybody noticed anything weird with it besides the speed?

No speed up for Nair or Dair though? That seems weird, we have proof of that being a thing.

 

[san.]

I felt that jab2 hit much better. I wasn't getting hit on the leg as much whenever I threw it out.

Nair and Dair was landing lag. It also doesn't have specials.

 

[-RedX-]

Utilt having more lingering frames was indeed true. Huh.
Thinkman has no access to landing lag changes at this moment.
Curious about the other x1.25 to "non-attacks". Faster taunts? *shrugs*

 

[san.]

Also ftilt may indeed be frame 12. Ha!

Utilt having more lingering frames was indeed true. Huh.
Thinkman has no access to landing lag changes at this moment.
Curious about the other x1.25 to "non-attacks". Faster taunts? *shrugs*

It might be some of the landing lag animations.

Buff to utilt's range is definitely welcome. Sometimes I wouldn't use it because I felt so many dairs outranged it.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Also ftilt may indeed be frame 12. Ha!



It might be some of the landing lag animations.

Buff to utilt's range is definitely welcome. Sometimes I wouldn't use it because I felt so many dairs outranged it.

I find spot dodging to avoid a grab to up tilt is a great punish. Or pretty much anything else you bait with a spot dodge. If your spot dodge is successful in avoiding a running up smash, a run grab, some dash attacks if timed right will always reward you with a killing up tilt.

 

[XDaDePsak]

I feel like I've been having a harder time connecting the tail end of the Nair now.

Have those hitboxes been removed or delayed somehow? Cause it feels like it doesn't wrap under/back the way it used to.