If you had to remove one character

[Mushroomguy12]

*gasp!* You mean we can't both describe which characters we'd remove and do it without starting a flame war?!

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You want to keep being passive aggressive like that you can fulfill your own prophecy.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Why are there so many of these threads...

Why would you even want to remove a character when there's nothing to gain from it...

 

[Coolboy]

i would remove the plant HAPPILY, i still just can't stand the character like at all, AWAY WITH THE LAME PLANT THING!!!!
i don't believe i am saying this but even Geno/ Waluigi would had been a waaay better choice to get in and i don't care about them both gettin in at all so that says something :l

 

[An avarage Doc main]

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Piranha Plant, because it getting in before Waluigi or Isaac is crime. If those two had got in first and made their way to Ultimate, I would welcome the plant with open arms. Corrin's a close second, they shouldn't have been added in the first place, but at least they're kinda fun to play. As for a third? Isabelle, but only because I think she's too cute and I hate beating her up. Playing her's pretty fun tho.

 

[Deleted member]

Realistically no one. But if I had to choose it would be K. Rool as he's a bit uninteresting moveset-wise.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There is no right or wrong answer for who people want to have removed. Don't give people flak for not hating(or liking) a character you disagree with. Just let it go and move on. It should be obvious you must respect what people's preferences are here. More posts will be looked over, but those being harsh to others or treating it like people are out of their mind will be treated as trolling. Time to get over it and accept your opinion is purely personal.

The thread in itself is fine as long as people keep it civil. Also, don't joke about the rules. We'll decide if the thread is an issue or not. Keep the colorful commentary away. It's just as much Spam as things like "inb4lock". This is the only warning people will get. If there's an issue with the thread, do the one and only correct thing and use the report function. Complaining about it on here is completely off-topic and pretty pointless. It adds nothing constructive to the thread itself.

And yes, there's a fair chance it might be locked, but so far it hasn't been that bad.

 

[Xquirtle]

What is with all of the Corrin hate lol. As an actual character in smash, shes got a relatively unique kit. Shes not the 4th or arguably 5th Marth variant with Roy, Chrom, Lucina, and arguably Ike (i would not personally count him). Yall are upset over who the character is rather than their kit and game play. I get the salt over the FE games getting lots of characters, but you're literally singling out a character that was released simultaneously with ****ing Bayo, who straight up destroyed smash 4 until its bitter end. Come on now.

Anyway, I'd remove Plant since it is an absolute total waste of a character slot. Its a joke character at its conception, and it is terribly designed and just generally obnoxious.

 

[cmbsfm]

Corrin or Plant are probably the only two I’d get rid of. Both were pretty big slap in the faces during the time of their reveals, and they still leave a bad taste in my mouth.

What is with all of the Corrin hate lol. As an actual character in smash, shes got a relatively unique kit. Shes not the 4th or arguably 5th Marth variant with Roy, Chrom, Lucina, and arguably Ike (i would not personally count him). Yall are upset over who the character is rather than their kit and game play. I get the salt over the FE games getting lots of characters, but you're literally singling out a character that was released simultaneously with ****ing Bayo, who straight up destroyed smash 4 until its bitter end. Come on now.

Anyway, I'd remove Plant since it is an absolute total waste of a character slot. Its a joke character at its conception, and it is terribly designed and just generally obnoxious.

There’s no point in complaining about the Marth clones because they don’t take up much development time, although I would have rather had a different echo in place of Chrom, like Shadow. The time spent on Corrin could have been spent developing a completely different character, preferably someone from a new franchise rather than another fire emblem character.

 

[Xquirtle]

Corrin or Plant are probably the only two I’d get rid of. Both were pretty big slap in the faces during the time of their reveals, and they still leave a bad taste in my mouth.


There’s no point in complaining about the Marth clones because they don’t take up much development time, although I would have rather had a different echo in place of Chrom, like Shadow. The time spent on Corrin could have been spent developing a completely different character, preferably someone from a new franchise rather than another fire emblem character.

Personally, i play most of the FE characters, so I'm not complaining. For me, they just offer a slew of characters that kinda make sense to me and are easy to swap between for whatever advantage they have. What I'm saying is that I at least understand the complaints about having all of these reskinned clones with small differences in abilities. Hell, Chrom has zero new abilities lol. Literally just a combination of lucina no tipper mechanic, Roy movement / animation, and Ike up B. To me, that is far more asinine than Corrin, who plays completely differently from any of the above. Granted, Robin is truly unique and an awesome character, Corrin falls somewhere in between. Like I said, the Corrin hate is about where she came from and not the character design, which is otherwise above average on uniqueness.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I still think Dr. Mario is the most pointless addition to the Smash roster to date so probably him.

 

[Crystanium]

Piranha Plant. Easiest decision of my life.

No other character comes close to what a complete abomination and waste of development time this thing was.

Pretty much single handedly ruined Ultimate's roster for me (and that’s saying A LOT, a character pick would have to be downright ATROCIOUS to be able to ruin a roster with every veteran returning). What a complete insult to every other more qualified character that could have made it in.

And it's so heartbreaking since Ultimate is likely the last game in the series that will be able to bring everyone back. Now if any future newcomers make it in a future game, they wouldn't be able to fight every single veteran from previous games, but a Plant would. The very thought makes me want to vomit.

I'm fine with Piranha Plant, and this is coming from someone who thinks there are way too many Mario characters. I actually laughed and was excited about its inclusion.

Anyway, I'd have to choose Dr. Mario. I'm not a fan of having self-same characters.

 

[Zinith]

Well, I guess as he's the most superfluous character on the roster...

 

[Tino]

I wouldn’t remove anyone from the roster...even the characters I don’t like such as Corrin.

It’s just not wise to remove a character other folks like.

 

[Koopaul]

I'm going to pick the fighter I think people would miss the least. I think it would be Dark Pit. I think, in general, echoes would shed the least amount of tears if removed. And of those echoes Dark Pit would shed even less tears. Don't get me wrong. There are going to be people upset about Dark Pit's removal. Of course there would be, there's going to be grief. The goal is to cause the least amount of grief as possible.

But why Dark Pit specifically? Well, as far as echoes go, a lot of them are characters that were highly requested (like Chrom, Daisy, and Dark Samus) or the main character of a popular game in the series (Richter). You also have Lucina who has a significant enough difference in the way she plays that I could see people being really upset about having to play as Marth instead. So that leaves Dark Pit.

But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Sebas22]

Well, after reading some of these comments, I'd say probably the best non-echo character to get rid of is Dr. Mario. (Ha, "non-echo")
As much as I dislike Corrin, she has an original moveset. Dr. Mario really adds nothing to the roster. It doesn't even represent the game he's from. Yeah, he throws the PILL. But, what's the point if the pill acts the same as the fireball? Also, the electric hand. Why Dr. Mario has electric powers!? Luigi is the one who should have electric attacks! Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga!

Also, please stop hating on my boi, Piranha Plant. He tries his best, and joke character or not, anybody can see that his moveset was made with care and with actual references to the games it belongs.

 

[Simperior]

Simply because from a competitive point of view he's very poorly designed. A character with no disjoints, with garbage recovery, who can only realistically attack on the ground and relies on super armor to compensate for these flaws just ends up being boring both to play as and against. I just think he doesn't work in smash, regardless of how low he might be on a tier list.
Also, what is all of this hate towards ? I understand (and respect) the criticism but damn i feel like my boy doesn't deserve it. But hey, opinions.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Well, after reading some of these comments, I'd say probably the best non-echo character to get rid of is Dr. Mario. (Ha, "non-echo")
As much as I dislike Corrin, she has an original moveset. Dr. Mario really adds nothing to the roster. It doesn't even represent the game he's from. Yeah, he throws the PILL. But, what's the point if the pill acts the same as the fireball? Also, the electric hand. Why Dr. Mario has electric powers!? Luigi is the one who should have electric attacks! Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga!

Dr. Mario is really "not an echo" in name only. He was put next to Dark Pit and Lucina in Smash 4.

Also, please stop hating on my boi, Piranha Plant. He tries his best, and joke character or not, anybody can see that his moveset was made with care and with actual references to the games it belongs.

People are allowed to "hate on it" all they want, just like you just "hated on" Dr. Mario. That's the point of the thread, "hating on" characters.
Or are people only allowed to criticize characters you don't like?
Little nugget I've pulled on from a prior thread, addressing the “unique moveset” excuse.

I've always said that ANY character you can think of has "moveset potential" (as Piranha Plant demonstrates), so obviously characters need to have a bit more star quality than that, which is why Piranha Plant represents the point where the series has jumped the shark for a lot of people. It is reductive in a damaging way to infer that character functions are more important than characters. Both are equally important to Smash.

And another nugget from myself on a previous thread addressing the “joke character” excuse.

Did we really need a joke character this time though? Would there be a incredibly large amount of people disappointed at the lack of one? Was there a large gaping hole in the roster without one on the same level as a character like Rex, Isaac, Dixie Kong, or even Waluigi’s absence?
The difference between the Plant and previous “joke” characters is that all of the previous ones represented their own series, filling in a large part of Nintendo that was important to the company’s history, with Duck Hunt being one of the best selling NES titles due to being packaged with the original Super Mario Bros (in a single cartridge no less, meaning everyone who played Super Mario Bros would also have Duck Hunt there ready to boot as well) and the Dog being especially notorious among gaming culture at large due to his laugh, Wii Fit/Wii Fit Plus (and the casual Wii series in general) being some of the best selling games of all time, ROB at least partially helping to save the NES (and possibly the industry as a whole) after the video game market crash, and Game and Watch being Nintendo’s first console and pretty much the earliest Nintendo hardware to gain success in the video game industry. If Nintendo was a giant puzzle, each of these fill in a different essential piece.

Not only does Plant NOT do this, but it’s part of a series that is already MORE than well fed in terms of representation. And even if they HAD to have another Mario character, at the VERY LEAST they could have picked a character SOMEONE was asking for like Waluigi, Geno, or Captain Toad. (Not that any of them were high on my priority list, but at least their actual characters.)

If they had added in someone like the Mach Rider or Takamaru as the Joke/Retro/Unorthodox character this time around, I wouldn’t have been out of my mind excited, but I could at least be somewhat tolerant on the basis that they do fill in a hole that was missing in Nintendo’s history.

Not give more to the series that had enough of the pie already.

Also, what is all of this hate towards ? I understand (and respect) the criticism but damn i feel like my boy doesn't deserve it. But hey, opinions.

Plenty of other characters are "being hated on" here as well. Plant comprises of less than half the responses anyway. A lot of people may feel like their character doesn't deserve it, including a lot of Little Mac fans.

 

[Sebas22]

Dr. Mario is really "not an echo" in name only. He was put next to Dark Pit and Lucina in Smash 4.

But this thread is about Ultimate, though. And this is from the official Smash website.

People are allowed to "hate on it" all they want, just like you just "hated on" Dr. Mario. That's the point of the thread, "hating on" characters.
Or are people only allowed to criticize characters you don't like?.

First of all, I don't hate Dr. Mario. Just said his inclusion makes no sense and I explained why. Removing a character doesn't exactly means "You hate him!!"
If next game, Dr. Mario comes back with an original moveset, I'd welcome him with open arms. If not, might as well make Builder Mario as a separate character too. He throws hammers instead of pills. Isn't that clever!

Second, anyone can hate or dislike whoever they want. I like Piranha Plant a lot and I just wanted to mention he's not as worthless as some people think. A character I do hate is Corrin, but even I can see she has some pros to her, as few as they are. I also was being (or trying lol) to be funny with that comment. Here's an advice: Never take seriously a comment that includes the word "boi" in it.
In fact, maybe we shouldn't take this thread so serious. I don't think anyone here works for Nintendo and will delete any character that gets mentioned.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

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But this thread is about Ultimate, though. And this is from the official Smash website.

That's why I said "in name only".

First of all, I don't hate Dr. Mario. Just said his inclusion makes no sense and I explained why. Removing a character doesn't exactly means "You hate him!!"

Believe it or not, I don't hate Piranha Plant either, at least when it comes to the character itself. I'd welcome it with open arms in games like Mario Party, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Mario Kart, Mario Baseball, Paper Mario, etc.

I just don't think it should be in Smash, because there is a difference between a purely Mario spinoff focusing on Mario characters and an All Star fighting roster composing all of Nintendo and several 3rd Parties. Also the fact that development time is precious and used as an excuse all the time why they couldn't include several characters, which is rarely used for the previous games mentioned above, due to a comparatively lesser focus on roster and a much smaller amount of work to add characters compared to a game like Smash.

It's the same way I like Goku as a character, and enjoy playing as him in the various DBZ licensed games. Doesn't mean I would want him in Smash.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Fem. Corrin is pretty but that game ain't right.

Personally, I wouldn't remove anyone, except maybe Bayonetta if nobody cared. I don't care if she's in or not, it's just if I had to cut a character.

Heck I don't even take it as seriously as some other people do, except for when some stupid scumbags push their opinions as fact and treat others like crap while using dumb arguments like "deserving" (it's a frickin videogame), so I just simply get disappointed if my wants don't get in and I continue hoping and supporting for the next game, while just finding whoever does get in to be "cool" or "okay whatever."

 

[Calamitas]

Easily . That character shouldn't have even made it back as DLC in 4.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Drop the Corrin talk about his/her in-universe actions. It is not appropriate whatsoever for this thread. Repeating it over and over will be treated as spam or inappropriate content. Let it go. It also is, coincidentally, irrelevant to Smash contexts.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

This is why there are too many of these kind of threads. No one likes it when someone nominates their main for removal and some people simply enjoy picking apart other's opinions. People predicted this thread would derail and it sure has. Besides, there are already plenty of these kind of threads that already exist.

 

[Lenidem]

Piranha Plant.

- Honoring the Mario levels and mooks could have been perfectly done with an assist or stage hazards (in fact, it is the case with Mushroom Kingdom 64).

- The so-called previous ''joke characters'' were actually representing something important in their own unique way, and even so, every Smash game doesn't need one.

- They spent time and efforts in the moveset? In my opinion, it would have been better spent with an actual character, especially one that people wanted - there is a lot of choice.

 

[Xelrog]

I would also remove Plant. I don't like that people now use it as justification for the idea that anyone at all could be in Smash, when it's clearly a one-off designed to get a rise out of the community and not a meaningful precedent. And as has been said above, those time and resources could have definitely been spent elsewhere.

I wonder how much time needs to pass before it becomes clear that it's not just anger and spite and that people have reasoned, critical arguments for why Plant was a bad addition.

 

[Gryphon827]

Everyone's saying that Corrin was forced into Smash when Joker exists...

 

[Lamperouge]

Lucario.

Never liked the guy and I also don't think he's fun to play.

 

[Xelrog]

Everyone's saying that Corrin was forced into Smash when Joker exists...

Joker is from a fairly popular franchise that was brand new to Smash--one that as I understand doesn't really have a single main mascot, no? Yes, Joker was picked from the pool of Persona possibilities in order to sell P5. But given that Smash was getting a Persona character, there wasn't really a better option available. If the series was already repped and then we got Joker, there'd be more of a comparison.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

I'm in the camp of not cutting characters, even the ones I don't like because they bring something unique or are just beloved.

I guess if I had to pick a character, Wolf would be the closest to my chopping block. I just don't like him or how he plays, but I'd still make the effort to keep him ultimately.

 

[Calamitas]

Joker is from a fairly popular franchise that was brand new to Smash--one that as I understand doesn't really have a single main mascot, no? Yes, Joker was picked from the pool of Persona possibilities in order to sell P5. But given that Smash was getting a Persona character, there wasn't really a better option available. If the series was already repped and then we got Joker, there'd be more of a comparison.

I know next to nothing about Persona, but isn't this Jack Frost demon thing essentially the series' mascot? I remember having heard something to that effect, at least.

 

[Dan]

Just think that we could've had the likes of Geno, Isaac, Bandana Dee, Dixie, Waluigi and Shadow (all these names are interchangable for characters people actually want) instead of Piranha Plant, Corrin, Bayonetta, Dark Pit, Wii Fit Trainer and the Mii Fighters... hollup; can we talk about how big of a waste of time the Mii Fighters are?! Isn't that three unique characters who potentially each took longer than the average because of the customization?

For the Mii's, it honestly should've just been one character that looks like your Mii that has a moveset of golfing, bowling, etc.

I don't like Joker or Hero, but I'll leave them alone since no one's mentioned them so far. I didn't like Isabelle or Incineroar when they got revealed either, but both have aged fine imo.

Piranha Plant was the worst addition; Joker was seemingly added overnight. I didn't feel rage or anything upon his addition, it was just like "that happened". Corrin/Bayonetta had me raging like a mofo (if you search through my posts I'm sure you could find the evidence), but PP honestly made me want to burn my copy of Ultimate and disconnect from the franchise... that's how bad it was.

I typically don't get to watch the presentations live since I'm a functioning member of society; I'll usually turn my cellular data on and go to GXP's YouTube channel as the quickest avenue of seeing all the headlines of a presentation, and I remember when I saw the plant I was like "What? Is this a new version of a playable character? Did they add playable Assist Trophies or something?"

Also, lol @ the guy hating on Dr. Mario with a virus as his avatar... I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but the irony.

At the end of the day, I think the real, objective answer is Dark Pit: non-unique, characters like Doc and Pichu have seniority over him, Isabelle is a superstar, etc.

That's why he always spoke Japanese in Smash until Ultimate, because it wasn't til the mobile game was released that he had a FE English voice actor.

As a complete aside that was always very cool.

 

[Lenidem]

That kind of subject should mention if Echoes/clones/semi-clones are concerned or not, because it changes everything - working time, ressources, and so on.

And what exactly are we talking about: are we in the "which character would you cut if a dark spell was cast on Smash Ultimate and you had to chose one sacrifice for the game to continue to exist" or a "which character would you sacrifice in order to get someone else for the next game"? In the first case, I would choose an Echo (probably Dark Pit) because they don't add much; but it the second case, it's the Plant, for the reasons said earlier.

 

[Sebas22]

Also, lol @ the guy hating on Dr. Mario with a virus as his avatar... I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but the irony.

lol @ the guy hating on Dr. Mario

I don't hate Dr. Mario. Just said his inclusion makes no sense and I explained why. Removing a character doesn't exactly means "You hate him!!"
If next game, Dr. Mario comes back with an original moveset, I'd welcome him with open arms.

I diagnose you with illiteracy.

 

[Deleted member]

I literally can’t choose any character to take out.

The only way I could try to do so is by taking out Samus or Hero as some kind of weird punishment towards myself.

 

[R O F L]

If we're not removing clones or echos, i'd pick Lucas. His moveset is a total abomination and he is the most obnoxious character in the game by far.

Piranha Plant. Easiest decision of my life.

No other character comes close to what a complete abomination and waste of development time this thing was.

Pretty much single handedly ruined Ultimate's roster for me (and that’s saying A LOT, a character pick would have to be downright ATROCIOUS to be able to ruin a roster with every veteran returning). What a complete insult to every other more qualified character that could have made it in.

And it's so heartbreaking since Ultimate is likely the last game in the series that will be able to bring everyone back. Now if any future newcomers make it in a future game, they wouldn't be able to fight every single veteran from previous games, but a Plant would. The very thought makes me want to vomit.

Dude, it's just a fun, joke character. I mean, I know everyone would prefer their most wanted over him, but there's practically no harm in having it.
I just wish it's moveset was designed better. I legit cannot get his Nair to ever combo.

Also, every game has a joke character...? ?
Never seen people rant over Puff, G&W or R.O.B..

 

[Lamperouge]

If we're not removing clones or echos, i'd pick Lucas. His moveset is a total abomination and he is the most obnoxious character in the game by far.



Dude, it's just a fun, joke character. I mean, I know everyone would prefer their most wanted over him, but there's practically no harm in having it.
I just wish it's moveset was designed better. I legit cannot get his Nair to ever combo.

Also, every game has a joke character...? ?
Never seen people rant over Puff, G&W or R.O.B..

I can't speak for the first two but ROB and WFT definitely had some detractors.

 

[Xelrog]

I know next to nothing about Persona, but isn't this Jack Frost demon thing essentially the series' mascot? I remember having heard something to that effect, at least.

I thought he was more associated with Shin Megami Tensei? Or is he just like a mascot for the parent company or something? He could be a valid choice, though, I'll give you that.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Dude, it's just a fun, joke character. I mean, I know everyone would prefer their most wanted over him, but there's practically no harm in having it.
I just wish it's moveset was designed better. I legit cannot get his Nair to ever combo.

Also, every game has a joke character...? ?
Never seen people rant over Puff, G&W or R.O.B..

Addressing .....

Did we really need a joke character this time though? Would there be a incredibly large amount of people disappointed at the lack of one? Was there a large gaping hole in the roster without one on the same level as a character like Rex, Isaac, Dixie Kong, or even Waluigi’s absence?
The difference between the Plant and previous “joke” characters is that all of the previous ones represented their own series, filling in a large part of Nintendo that was important to the company’s history, with Duck Hunt being one of the best selling NES titles due to being packaged with the original Super Mario Bros (in a single cartridge no less, meaning everyone who played Super Mario Bros would also have Duck Hunt there ready to boot as well) and the Dog being especially notorious among gaming culture at large due to his laugh, Wii Fit/Wii Fit Plus (and the casual Wii series in general) being some of the best selling games of all time, ROB at least partially helping to save the NES (and possibly the industry as a whole) after the video game market crash, and Game and Watch being Nintendo’s first console and pretty much the earliest Nintendo hardware to gain success in the video game industry. If Nintendo was a giant puzzle, each of these fill in a different essential piece.

Not only does Plant NOT do this, but it’s part of a series that is already MORE than well fed in terms of representation. And even if they HAD to have another Mario character, at the VERY LEAST they could have picked a character SOMEONE was asking for like Waluigi, Geno, or Captain Toad. (Not that any of them were high on my priority list, but at least their actual characters.)

If they had added in someone like the Mach Rider or Takamaru as the Joke/Retro/Unorthodox character this time around, I wouldn’t have been out of my mind excited, but I could at least be somewhat tolerant on the basis that they do fill in a hole that was missing in Nintendo’s history.

Not give more to the series that had enough of the pie already.

As someone who loves the wacky characters Smash always adds, I was disappointed at the lack of one. Piranha Plant doesn't satisfy that quota for me; it feels almost like somebody was trying to emulate that kind of pick but didn't understand what made it work.

Game & Watch, ROB, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer. All of those characters were completely unexpected, to the point of not even being on the radar as characters for many, but as has been said they all bring something new beyond themselves to Smash: Their own universes. Music, stages, trophies/stickers/Spirits. They take new franchises and induct them into the Smash pantheon.

Plant does nothing of the sort. It brings nothing that couldn't come with anyone else.

As for , it isn't really a joke character, as much as it was just picked as the second Pokemon rep in 64 because it closely resembled Kirby and was easy to model off of and reuse animations for. It's still in the game because of its veteran status as one of the original 12, but even then it was almost cut in Brawl. Plant isn't a clone of anyone.

I know next to nothing about Persona, but isn't this Jack Frost demon thing essentially the series' mascot? I remember having heard something to that effect, at least.

Jack Frost is just the most iconic enemy. Joker is the actual protagonist that you play as. That's why Mario is playable and not Goomba, or to be closer to an RPG, Hero is playable and not Slime.

Sure you could argue that Pikachu was in before Pokemon Trainer, but the difference there is that Pokemon actually do stuff, and Personas are just summonable tools that are replaced fairly quickly in the game. Also Pikachu is enormously popular because of the anime and Pokemon in general puts a far greater emphasis on the individual Pokemon rather than the humans compared to RPGs like Dragon Quest and Persona where the Humans are the focus of the story.

 

[Dan]

I diagnose you with illiteracy.
View attachment 232845

Well the real diagnosis is I didn't read every post in this thread... it's too much.

The only way I could try to do so is by taking out Samus or Hero as some kind of weird punishment towards myself.

That's a weird fetish.

Never seen people rant over Puff, G&W or R.O.B..

That's because Puff is not a joke character, and G&W and ROB became token "retro reps" (as did DHD).