If you had to remove one character

[CodakTheWarrior]

I’m curious why people think fates is so bad? Personally I think Marth’s Game even in the remake is the worst just from age mostly, but it is why. I heard people hate Ike’s second game as well a lot or a few Japan exclusives.

Maybe of the post awakening age it is? But I could not say.

Granted I haven’t played it yet but Corrin seems at least a lot more unique than other characters for fire emblem.

Granted cutting a lot of fire emblems characters alone is hard

Fire emblem as a series in smash is in a weird spot, as I think the series, at this point, is deserving of the amount of fighters it has, just not the certain ones it’s got right now, at least that’s how I see it

 

[Calamitas]

I’m curious why people think fates is so bad? Personally I think Marth’s Game even in the remake is the worst just from age mostly, but it is why. I heard people hate Ike’s second game as well a lot or a few Japan exclusives.

Maybe of the post awakening age it is? But I could not say.

Granted I haven’t played it yet but Corrin seems at least a lot more unique than other characters for fire emblem.

Granted cutting a lot of fire emblems characters alone is hard

Mostly the story, and how the game handled romance and child characters, I feel. In its pre-release period, the marketing for Fates specifically hyped up its story, making a great deal about how your choices matter, and how all paths are equal and whatnot. And then, when the game came out. . . the story couldn't even come close to living up to the hype that had been made around it. The characters from the side you didn't pick behaved downright stupid, reasons for why battles happened were contrived as all hell (the actual, canonical reason why the nations of Hoshido aren't in an open war when the game begins is because the ruler of Hoshido just has the power to create a magical peace barrier around the country that makes everyone that enters it lose the will to fight), the worldbuilding was close to non-existant (to this day, we don't even know the name of the continent that everything in the game takes place on), the antagonists were over the top and unbelievable, and the writing was heavily favouring Hoshido when it came to portraying it in a positive light. Add to that the fact that the protagonist, Corrin, doesn't really feel like they have much in the way of agency and just get forced from point A to point B, and you end up with a grand pile of disappointment. Similarly, the secondary protagonist, Azura, just tends to withhold vital information for no reason, and ends up dying for rather contrived reasons on two out of three routes.
As for romance and child characters - well, one of the biggest selling points of the game character-wise was that on each side, you have four royal siblings, one older brother, one older sister, one younger brother, one younger sister. But since having your avatar romance characters was such a big thing in Awakening, they just had to bring it back in Fates, and so all of these siblings are adoptive siblings, and Corrin can marry them (which is where the accusations of incest and pedophilia - the younger sisters look like they're 14 at best - that another user here was throwing around come from, which I find understandable, but still rather crass). Resulting from the marriage is the child system, which is also extremely contentious for this game. Basically, in Awakening, the child characters were rather well justified for appearing, had a strong tie to the story, and (in my eyes at least) more of a reason to fight the final battle than their parents. Fates just copied the concept of child characters without any of these things - the children make no sense in the story, have no reason to be around, and their presence makes their parents look highly questionable. Essentially, they're being born and raised in pocket dimensions where time flows much faster than it does in the main one, with these pocket dimensions playing absolutely no role in the main story.
Characters in general are meanwhile perceived to be heavily gimmick-driven and lacking in deeper characterization (though I myself feel that that is a mostly unfair assessment).
And in addition to all of this, there's just the pricing of Fates. One path alone costs you as much as any full-price 3DS game. As for the other two paths? Those are something you have to get as paid DLC, which both together essentially double the cost of the game.
But as for the actual gameplay of Fates, that's actually pretty good. Conquest in particular has some really creative and challenging maps, which, combined with the various weapons, classes and skills you can pick from and play around with, gives you tons of options of how you can go about things. Birthright is far weaker in its map design and challenge, since it was created to be the "easier path", while Revelations. . . has at least creative maps, though they tend to lean a bit too much into the gimmick side of things. Nonetheless, these two paths can still be rather enjoyable, even if some of Birthright's maps can end up being a bit repetitive and simplistic, and Revelation has poor unit balance.

Of course, I can't really talk about anyone else's feelings on the matter, but these points are what seem to me the main reasons why people dislike Fates. As for me personally, I still love the gameplay of the game, and think that Corrin has an interesting enough set of powers to remain in Smash - though I wish there was more music from Fates in Smash, other than just three or four versions of "Lost in Though All Alone". Fates has some good music.
As for me personally, I don't think that Fates is the worst Fire Emblem game I played. That "honour" still goes to Binding Blade, aka Roy's game. **** that game, and that character. Lilina should've been the Lord of that game, and you can't convince me otherwise.

This got a bit long, but I hope that it nonetheless sums things up nicely enough.

 

[VodkaHaze]

I'd definitely remove the fifth DLC character.

 

[Arthur97]

You can do plenty of write-ups, and, yeah, the story may be bad, but some people just don't like anything resembling Awakening. Personally, I wish they'd can the romance even though I liked it in Awakening, and Fates seemed to be trying too hard to be something it wasn't.

That said, don't kid yourselves, Fates is still very popular.

 

[MERPIS]

I have a list...
IN ORDER OF PRIORITY: Plant, ZSS, Robin, Lucas, Zelda, and Dedede

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

Hero. I have 0 connection to the DQ games, and I just find his design to be awful. Specifically the down-special, which tarnishes the character (IMO). It's just to rng, and ruins the flow of combat.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

I have a list...
IN ORDER OF PRIORITY: Plant, ZSS, Robin, Lucas, Zelda, and Dedede

Out of curiosity, why would you ever cut Zelda and d3? Both are huge icons I wouldn’t see either ever being cut

 

[MERPIS]

Out of curiosity, why would you ever cut Zelda and d3? Both are huge icons I wouldn’t see either ever being cut

Poorly designs irritants that no one likes fighting against

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Poorly designs irritants that no one likes fighting against

I completely disagree with Zelda, I’ve never had an issue fighting her, but dedede is still designed extremely well imo

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Forget Corrin. I'd remove Hero faster than Thanos can snap his fingers. No fighter should be awarded than much RNG. Hero has way too many ridiculous moves that kill super early and from across the stage, not to mention a OHKO. Call me whatever you want, say that he just got released, I don't care. I've played as him enough and against him enough to agree that he should either be nerfed or banned. A fighter that revolves that much around RNG isn't healthy for anyone.

 

[MERPIS]

I completely disagree with Zelda

Go away LOZ fan

Forget Corrin. I'd remove Hero faster than Thanos can snap his fingers. No fighter should be awarded than much RNG. Hero has way too many ridiculous moves that kill super early and from across the stage, not to mention a OHKO. Call me whatever you want, say that he just got released, I don't care. I've played as him enough and against him enough to agree that he should either be nerfed or banned. A fighter that revolves that much around RNG isn't healthy for anyone.

I forgot hero...

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Go away LOZ fan


I forgot hero...

Wow what a good rebuttal to an argument, good job dude! /s

 

[Coolboy]

Go away LOZ fan.

did Nayru's love hurt you that much my dude? xD

 

[MERPIS]

did Nayru's love hurt you that much my dude? xD

Yees, and that stupid phantom horse crap

 

[EGsmash]

I'd get rid of Hero. Not because he's poorly balanced (he is), not because he has the hardest-hitting attacks with the greatest knockbacks in the game (he does), not because the range and reach of his attacks make him easy mode (it does), not because he has TWO potential instakill attacks and a special-snowflake sleep spell that works even in the air (yeah, it's stupid).

No, I would get rid of him because of ALL of the above. If Ultimate is the carry-you-all-the-way cancer reminiscent of Smash 4 or Brawl , then is Master Hand. Plus, I'd rather they just pick one representative character for the series and stick with it, or at least do them as echoes. Can you imagine if they rolled Cloud, Squall, Tidus, and Noctis all into one character as representative of the entire FF series? And then did something corny with the name, calling them "Protagonist"? *cringe*

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

I'd get rid of Hero. Not because he's poorly balanced (he is), not because he has the hardest-hitting attacks with the greatest knockbacks in the game (he does), not because the range and reach of his attacks make him easy mode (it does), not because he has TWO potential instakill attacks and a special-snowflake sleep spell that works even in the air (yeah, it's stupid).

No, I would get rid of him because of ALL of the above. If Ultimate is the carry-you-all-the-way cancer reminiscent of Smash 4 or Brawl , then is Master Hand. Plus, I'd rather they just pick one representative character for the series and stick with it, or at least do them as echoes. Can you imagine if they rolled Cloud, Squall, Tidus, and Noctis all into one character as representative of the entire FF series? And then did something corny with the name, calling them "Protagonist"? *cringe*

Yeah in terms of competitive Hero is inarguably the worst designed character I feel (casual play is a whole different story as I love playing him casually)

 

[Yitsul]

Too many of its move cause recoil and it's a baby pokemon.

 

[Sebas22]

I'd get rid of Hero. Not because he's poorly balanced (he is), not because he has the hardest-hitting attacks with the greatest knockbacks in the game (he does), not because the range and reach of his attacks make him easy mode (it does), not because he has TWO potential instakill attacks and a special-snowflake sleep spell that works even in the air (yeah, it's stupid).

No, I would get rid of him because of ALL of the above. If Ultimate is the carry-you-all-the-way cancer reminiscent of Smash 4 or Brawl , then is Master Hand. Plus, I'd rather they just pick one representative character for the series and stick with it, or at least do them as echoes. Can you imagine if they rolled Cloud, Squall, Tidus, and Noctis all into one character as representative of the entire FF series? And then did something corny with the name, calling them "Protagonist"? *cringe*

Honestly, I see no problem with having 4 different Hero skins. It's a beloved series in Japan and Sakurai wanted to please the fans.
The real issue is he's absolutely OP.

 

[EGsmash]

Yeah in terms of competitive Hero is inarguably the worst designed character I feel (casual play is a whole different story as I love playing him casually)

For. Real.

He's really quirky and fun to play against other Heroes, but it feels like they spent so much effort making this game a competitively balanced experience only to throw it all out with OP marketing-driven gimmicks in the DLC. was actually good DLC - a mix of strengths and weaknesses, some useful moves and setups, but nothing that completely outclasses the rest of the cast. Then and came out mainly to sell copies of their other games and here we are.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

For. Real.

He's really quirky and fun to play against other Heroes, but it feels like they spent so much effort making this game a competitively balanced experience only to throw it all out with OP marketing-driven gimmicks in the DLC. was actually good DLC - a mix of strengths and weaknesses, some useful moves and setups, but nothing that completely outclasses the rest of the cast. Then and came out mainly to sell copies of their other games and here we are.

I agree with you, like I actually do think both joker and hero deserve their slots, although the fact that luminary is the default clearly shows it was an advertisement based decision, but sakurai just got TOO carried away with them imo. I love the aesthetic and think the characters themselves are dope but the sheer amount of gimmicks shoved into them, ESPECIALLY in Hero’s case, is just ridiculous. Thankfully, Banjo seems to be taking a much simpler approach which will be a breath of fresh air that I’m super excited for

 

[Mogisthelioma]

For. Real.

He's really quirky and fun to play against other Heroes, but it feels like they spent so much effort making this game a competitively balanced experience only to throw it all out with OP marketing-driven gimmicks in the DLC. was actually good DLC - a mix of strengths and weaknesses, some useful moves and setups, but nothing that completely outclasses the rest of the cast. Then and came out mainly to sell copies of their other games and here we are.

Nobody's denying that the devs went wild designing Joker and Hero but I'd argue they're in the game for bigger reasons than selling their own games--considering that Persona 5 is still absent form the Switch it's not like Joker was released to sell his own game. He and Hero had their own popular upbringings that helped earn their spots in the game.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Nobody's denying that the devs went wild designing Joker and Hero but I'd argue they're in the game for bigger reasons than selling their own games--considering that Persona 5 is still absent form the Switch it's not like Joker was released to sell his own game. He and Hero had their own popular upbringings that helped earn their spots in the game.

I fully agree with you on joker, he, surprisingly, isn’t an advertisement pick. I’d say that Hero isn’t for the most part, but the luminary being the default and the huge emphasis on dragon quest XI shows to me at least that advertisement def has something to do with his inclusion, though even beyond that dragon quest is so legendary as a series that hero has long since earned his spot anyways

 

[ze9]

I still don't know about Hero, but comparing Joker to Smash 4's Bayonetta is ridicolous.

 

[Coolboy]

I'd get rid of Hero. Not because he's poorly balanced (he is), not because he has the hardest-hitting attacks with the greatest knockbacks in the game (he does), not because the range and reach of his attacks make him easy mode (it does), not because he has TWO potential instakill attacks and a special-snowflake sleep spell that works even in the air (yeah, it's stupid).

No, I would get rid of him because of ALL of the above. If Ultimate is the carry-you-all-the-way cancer reminiscent of Smash 4 or Brawl , then is Master Hand. Plus, I'd rather they just pick one representative character for the series and stick with it, or at least do them as echoes. Can you imagine if they rolled Cloud, Squall, Tidus, and Noctis all into one character as representative of the entire FF series? And then did something corny with the name, calling them "Protagonist"? *cringe*

i don't think needs to be removed but he does need some fixes and i know exactly which things need to be fixed to make him actually more balanced
following things would be the fixes if it was all my decision
- less damage received from specials like neutral B and some of the down B spells (to lazy to name the spells lol)
- less knockback from specials especially some of the down B spells & neutral B

in fact that would be it for me, i do not find much wrong with him other then that but that neurtral B really pisses me off the most it really does..it is just to unfair with what this move can do.. if you get hit by it 2 or 3 times on full strenght then you die >~>

 

[Arthur97]

i don't think needs to be removed but he does need some fixes and i know exactly which things need to be fixed to make him actually more balanced
following things would be the fixes if it was all my decision
- less damage received from specials like side B and some of the down B spells (to lazy to name the spells lol)
- less knockback from specials especially the down B spells

in fact that would be it for me, i do not find much wrong with him other then that but that side B really pisses me off the most it really does..it is just to unfair with what this move can do.. if you get hit by it 2 or 3 times on full strenght then you die >~>

If anything needs toned down knockback, it's probably his fire spell. Forget the RNG ones.

 

[Coolboy]

If anything needs toned down knockback, it's probably his fire spell. Forget the RNG ones.

that's the 1 i meant! i typed side B instead of Neutral B ^^''

 

[Arthur97]

that's the 1 i meant! i typed side B instead of Neutral B ^^''

You still talked knockback particularly on the down specials which I don't think are usually that bad if just because of how hard it can be to get the right one, but the fire spell is always a part of their arsenal unless somehow they ran out of enough MP.

 

[EGsmash]

I still don't know about Hero, but comparing Joker to Smash 4's Bayonetta is ridicolous.

Ridiculously accurate?

1) Glitter goth anime style
2) Nimbly-bimbly af
3) Disjointed, hard-hitting hitboxes
4) Combos for days
5) Stupid-powerful Down-B
6) Hidden supernatural companion/benefactor
7) Carry you to the blast zone and professionals to tournament wins

 

[Mr Saturn Fanboy]

oh for sure or

While they may not be as broken or a waste of a slot like some newcomers, they're definitely some of the most boring and infuriating to play against.

With Isabelle, her whole game is fishingrodfishingrodminefishingrodmineminrnairfishingrodgishingrodfishingrodfishingrodmineminemineminemineminefishingrodfishingrodmine

With Young Link, his whole game is
Bombarrowarrowarrowboomerangarrowarrowboomerangboomerangarrowbombarrowarrowarrowboomerangboomerangarrowarrowdairdairdairarrowarrowboomerangupsmasharrowarrowarrow

These two are just... Really unfun to play against. I can even extrapolate like, a teaspoon of fun from a Corrin or Marth fight, but with these two, might as well hand the controller to your player two, and contemplate your life choices as your character stands there getting pelted with all the spam, and you're just standing there like

 

[SSGuy]

Piranha Plant

 

[Opossum]

Ridiculously accurate?

1) Glitter goth anime style
2) Nimbly-bimbly af
3) Disjointed, hard-hitting hitboxes
4) Combos for days
5) Stupid-powerful Down-B
6) Hidden supernatural companion/benefactor
7) Carry you to the blast zone and professionals to tournament wins

I mean it's mostly just MK Leo doing well with Joker. It's nowhere near lategame Smash 4 where there were several Bayonettas in top eights in super majors at a time.

 

[Xelrog]

It's also been less than a week. :I

 

[ze9]

Ridiculously accurate?

1) Glitter goth anime style
2) Nimbly-bimbly af
3) Disjointed, hard-hitting hitboxes
4) Combos for days
5) Stupid-powerful Down-B
6) Hidden supernatural companion/benefactor
7) Carry you to the blast zone and professionals to tournament wins

Yeah ok, but he's nowhere near as overwhelming as Bayonetta was.
Bayonetta didn't ruin only the highest levels of the meta-game, but practically everything from the mid-high level of play and above. She actually affected even the "casual" competitive play (like, say, For Glory), she was totally unfair and once she got a hit on you there was no way to stop her.
Joker meanwhile is a good/great character, but that's it, he's way more manageable if you know what you're doing, and if you're better than your opponent you're gonna win anyways. Which wasn't the case for Smash 4 Bayonetta.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I mean it's mostly just MK Leo doing well with Joker. It's nowhere near lategame Smash 4 where there were several Bayonettas in top eights in super majors at a time.

Yeah ok, but he's nowhere near as overwhelming as Bayonetta was.
Bayonetta didn't ruin only the highest levels of the meta-game, but practically everything from the mid-high level of play and above. She actually affected even the "casual" competitive play (like, say, For Glory), she was totally unfair and once she got a hit on you there was no way to stop her.
Joker meanwhile is a good/great character, but that's it, he's way more manageable if you know what you're doing, and if you're better than your opponent you're gonna win anyways. Which wasn't the case for Smash 4 Bayonetta.

Even if MKLeo is one of the only people dominating with Joker they still have a point. The fact than anyone can win at least three tournaments with just one fighter shows how well Joker can place in every matchup. He has such a versatile toolkit that allows him to escape disadvantage and reverse situations very fast, not to mention a crutch that buffs all of his moves and allows him to KO much earlier.

Bayonetta appeared in top 8 much more than Joker is now, sure. But that's mainly because Ultimate not only has a much more diverse cast but also because the new game style and buffs to many fighters means there are plenty more options for people to choose from in matchups. That doesn't mean Joker is any less powerful--sure, he's no Smash 4 Bayo broken, but he's certainly very good and I for one can advocate for nerfs to him.

 

[EGsmash]

The thing you gotta understand about me is that I am prone to hyperbole as part of my attempts at being funny. Best to take anything I say online with a chuckle and a grain of salt. Yeah, Joker isn't EXACTLY as obnoxious as S4 Bayonaise, but the similarities are striking.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

The thing you gotta understand about me is that I am prone to hyperbole as part of my attempts at being funny. Best to take anything I say online with a chuckle and a grain of salt. Yeah, Joker isn't EXACTLY as obnoxious as S4 Bayonaise, but the similarities are striking.

Spoiler: EVO 2019 grand finals

Well, MKLeo just took yet another tournament with Joker, and within top 50 at EVO there were 4 Jokers, meaning he was one of the most played fighters at that level. So you weren't totally wrong in your original post.

 

[Rocketjay8]

Mostly the story, and how the game handled romance and child characters, I feel. In its pre-release period, the marketing for Fates specifically hyped up its story, making a great deal about how your choices matter, and how all paths are equal and whatnot. And then, when the game came out. . . the story couldn't even come close to living up to the hype that had been made around it. The characters from the side you didn't pick behaved downright stupid, reasons for why battles happened were contrived as all hell (the actual, canonical reason why the nations of Hoshido aren't in an open war when the game begins is because the ruler of Hoshido just has the power to create a magical peace barrier around the country that makes everyone that enters it lose the will to fight), the worldbuilding was close to non-existant (to this day, we don't even know the name of the continent that everything in the game takes place on), the antagonists were over the top and unbelievable, and the writing was heavily favouring Hoshido when it came to portraying it in a positive light. Add to that the fact that the protagonist, Corrin, doesn't really feel like they have much in the way of agency and just get forced from point A to point B, and you end up with a grand pile of disappointment. Similarly, the secondary protagonist, Azura, just tends to withhold vital information for no reason, and ends up dying for rather contrived reasons on two out of three routes.
As for romance and child characters - well, one of the biggest selling points of the game character-wise was that on each side, you have four royal siblings, one older brother, one older sister, one younger brother, one younger sister. But since having your avatar romance characters was such a big thing in Awakening, they just had to bring it back in Fates, and so all of these siblings are adoptive siblings, and Corrin can marry them (which is where the accusations of incest and pedophilia - the younger sisters look like they're 14 at best - that another user here was throwing around come from, which I find understandable, but still rather crass). Resulting from the marriage is the child system, which is also extremely contentious for this game. Basically, in Awakening, the child characters were rather well justified for appearing, had a strong tie to the story, and (in my eyes at least) more of a reason to fight the final battle than their parents. Fates just copied the concept of child characters without any of these things - the children make no sense in the story, have no reason to be around, and their presence makes their parents look highly questionable. Essentially, they're being born and raised in pocket dimensions where time flows much faster than it does in the main one, with these pocket dimensions playing absolutely no role in the main story.
Characters in general are meanwhile perceived to be heavily gimmick-driven and lacking in deeper characterization (though I myself feel that that is a mostly unfair assessment).
And in addition to all of this, there's just the pricing of Fates. One path alone costs you as much as any full-price 3DS game. As for the other two paths? Those are something you have to get as paid DLC, which both together essentially double the cost of the game.
But as for the actual gameplay of Fates, that's actually pretty good. Conquest in particular has some really creative and challenging maps, which, combined with the various weapons, classes and skills you can pick from and play around with, gives you tons of options of how you can go about things. Birthright is far weaker in its map design and challenge, since it was created to be the "easier path", while Revelations. . . has at least creative maps, though they tend to lean a bit too much into the gimmick side of things. Nonetheless, these two paths can still be rather enjoyable, even if some of Birthright's maps can end up being a bit repetitive and simplistic, and Revelation has poor unit balance.

Of course, I can't really talk about anyone else's feelings on the matter, but these points are what seem to me the main reasons why people dislike Fates. As for me personally, I still love the gameplay of the game, and think that Corrin has an interesting enough set of powers to remain in Smash - though I wish there was more music from Fates in Smash, other than just three or four versions of "Lost in Though All Alone". Fates has some good music.
As for me personally, I don't think that Fates is the worst Fire Emblem game I played. That "honour" still goes to Binding Blade, aka Roy's game. **** that game, and that character. Lilina should've been the Lord of that game, and you can't convince me otherwise.

This got a bit long, but I hope that it nonetheless sums things up nicely enough.

Can you please tell me why you think that Binding Blade is the worst Fire Emblem game? You don't have to post it on this thread, you can post it on either one of our profiles.

 

[Calamitas]

Can you please tell me why you think that Binding Blade is the worst Fire Emblem game? You don't have to post it on this thread, you can post it on either one of our profiles.

I mean, it's not like this thread is really active anyway, so I'll just go over it really quick.

• The game has far too many characters for its own good (around 50, I think), making it hard to really care about anyone
• A lot of **** gets thrown towards you like long-range mages on pretty much every map past the mid-point
• Axes are borderline useless
• Reaching the true ending is entirely reliant on arbitrarily getting a bunch of legendary weapons and not breaking them until the endgame
• The story is extremely basic and shallow, with only really Zephiel kinda standing out as an antagonist
• Roy's ridicilously late promotion and lackluster stats
• Roy's simplistic and generic character
• The fact that there's barely any justification for Roy even being the protag - he doesn't really have any kind of personal stakes in the story, unlike Lilina (her father gets killed in the war) and Guinevre (her brother is the main antagonist), who would've made far better lords than he did

I'll admit that it has been several years since I last played Binding Blade, but I really have absolutely no intention of ever going back to it. Hell, I'd rather return to Fates. If they do eventually remake this game, they'd have to do some major fixing for me to think it has any chance of being good.