If you had to remove 20 characters from Ultimate, who would they be?

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Its been ages since I last posted in this thread, from even before the game came out.

1-6: :ultzss::ultdoc::ulttoonlink::ultyounglink::ultsheik::ultpichu:- Gonna start with the redundant characters who have more notable counterparts.
7-11: :ultdarksamus::ultdaisy::ultrichter::ultdarkpit::ultlucas: - Inconsequential Echos (or semi-clone in Lucas's case).
12-13: :ultmarth::ultroy: - I'm biased as hell for the Awakening lords in comparison to Marth and especially Roy. Also Chrom being more masculine than the typical Smash RPG boy and Lucina being female adds a bit more visual variety when paired with the likes of Link, Shulk, Cloud, and Hero.
14-16::ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultswordfighter: - Miis suck. I know they deserve a spot but god are they boring.
17-19: :ultpiranha::ultcorrin::ultlucario: - Mario, Fire Emblem, and Pokémon have a lot of characters and can stand to lose another. Plant awesome but he's a generic mook, I like Ike, Chrom, and Lucina way too much to cut them over Corrin even if he's more unique than them & Lucario's just the most boring of all the remaining Pokes.
20: :ulticeclimbers: - I was this close to putting Joker on here but in the end I still have some respect for the Persona brand despite my immeasurable salt over Atlus not porting 5 to the Switch.
 

Vycoul

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At first I thought the ability to remove Echoes made this a bit too easy, and that I'd find a painless (for me) way to pick 20 without including any. But that proved too difficult.

Here are my easy picks, I have little to no problem deleting these 13 non-Echos:

:ultcorrin: :ultroy: :ultfalco: :ultwolf: :ultincineroar: :ultjigglypuff: :ultgreninja: :ultlucas: :ultbayonetta: :ultpiranha:
:ulticeclimbers: :ultduckhunt: :ultgnw:
(Falco, Wolf, and Lucas are different enough from the characters they are derived from I think)

After that, I'm finding it a little hard to delete non-Echo/clone characters. So the great Clone Culling must commence:

:ultken: :ultdarksamus: :ultdoc: :ultchrom: :ultdarkpit: :ultlucina: :ultsimon: (I prefer Richter)
 
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If i were to remove 20 characters, i have to take away:

1. Dr. Mario (Can just be turned into a Mario Outfit)
2. Pichu (He is just uninteresting)
3. Jigglypuff (Just a Kirby Clone)
4. Mii Fighters (I think the Miis should be redesigned and revamped)
5. Zero Suit Samus (Just fuse Samus In again with this like in Brawl)
6. Lucina
7. Chrom
8. Corrin
9. Ike
10. Dark Pit (Can just be Pit in his Alt color for what i care)
11. Dark Samus
12. Ken (I have no interest in ken, just in Smash Ultimate is enough)
13. Richter (I prefer Simon best)
14. Duck Hunt Duo (Too Annoying! Banjo Kazooie are their perfect replacement in the Next Smash game)
15. R.O.B. (It's time for the Robot to finally leave)
16. Ice Climbers (They don't have a sequel as of now)
17. Mr. Game & Watch (We need a batch of different Retro reps)
18. Sheik (Fuse her in with Zelda like Brawl)
19. Wii Fit Trainer (Wii U is Defunct, so there is no point)
20. Piranha Plant (Look, i don't care about Piranha Plant, and i consider him as a Placeholder for one of my preferred fighters in the roster, and No, Piranha Plant doesn't replace Waluigi! I consider him a Placeholder for a Female fighter from Nintendo and it's NOT from the Mario Franchise or the Zelda Franchise or the Fire Emblem Franchise!)
 
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I should specify I do not have any spite for these characters or people who like these characters. I'm just following the prompt and giving my reasoning.

:ultdarksamus: - Not a Metroid expert, but I know her abilities from the Prime games barely resemble Samus's. No differences from Samus, and would rather have her be a unique character, be to Samus as Falco is to Fox, or get cut and return to being an alt costume.
:ultfalcon: - I'm sorry, F-Zero fans. I'd hesitate if we had new F-Zero content added to Smash after Brawl that wasn't a song, spirit, or trophy, but even in Smash, F-Zero has gone incredibly stagnant. Ganon, while no longer even a semi-clone tbh, kinda fills Falcon's niche fighting style with a heavyweight spin imo. RIP Falcon Punch memes.
:ultjigglypuff: - An oddball choice that's stuck around since 64, added to fill the roster during time crunch and copying off of Kirby. With how many Pokemon reps we have, Jigglypuff can afford to go.
:ultdaisy: - Daisy is the better princess, but I'd cut her for similar reasons to Dark Samus.
:ultsheik: - An artifact of Melee and Zelda's character overall, at one point she'd outgrown Zelda before the tables turned. I'd say it's about time to retire Sheik from the cast.
:ultdoc: - Would say he works best as an Alt at this point. And hey, Mario's last two alts are of Odyssey costumes, so replacing another one of Mario's alts with Doc would fit that perfectly.
:ultpichu: - Pichu is, unfortunately, a good example of how to make a proper clone/echo of a character, but is burdened by being in a series with lots of reps that aren't clones. So yeah, axe Pichu.
:ultlucina: - In a similar boat to Pichu, is a decent echo and plays differently from her origin character, but FE has a lot of fat that needs trimmed and Roy is the better Marth clone imo. Would put Lucina as an alt to Marth, similar to other characters with a male/female rotation of alts.
:ultchrom: - An echo of an echo (Roy's not labeled as an echo but that term is used incredibly weirdly), with Lucina's anti-tipper and Ike's up special at an attempt to differentiate him from Roy. Chrom is like a Frankenstein's Monster of FE characters.
:ultzss: - I have nothing against ZSS, it's just the Metroid series deserves more representation instead of Samus herself twice (thrice if you count Dark Samus, mentioned above) and Ridley.
:ultlucario: - A kinda interesting character with a comeback mechanic that's not entirely reliable, already putting him on the edge. Then we look at the Pokemon series with rep spots to spare, and Lucario gets cut.
:ulttoonlink: - I didn't cut Young Link since he plays significantly different from normal Link and his moveset feels like natural weapons of choice for him. Young Link is diet pre-Ultimate Link and doesn't represent any of his games well, so I'm deeming him the weakest link of the Zelda rep chain.
:ultlittlemac: - I'm a fan of the Punch Out!! series and really hope we get another rep one day... because the one we got right now is, arguably, broken. Not in the good way. Deserving of a redesign or replacement rep, although that's sorta hard, given he's the main character of the series...
:ultbowserjr: - Don't feel his moveset represents himself or his Koopaling alts that well. The character feels more like the Clown Car than Bowser Jr/The Koopalings. If cut then brought back, I would hope he gets a massive redesign.
:ultduckhunt: - I avoided most retro characters because they have their iconicness, but not only is Duck Hunt the least iconic in Smash (in Smash itself, I mean. Outside he's definitely more iconic that Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B. but), but is one of the actively most hated characters who isn't some form of clone or a high tier, from the people I've talked to at least. Not too many would be torn up to see the duo leave, I believe.
:ultrichter: - An echo with little difference, see my reasoning for Dark Samus above. Although tbh, with how many people play Richter over Simon, you could probably cut Simon and keep Richter for similar results from the fanbase.
:ultpiranha: - The ultimate meme character, but yeah, Piranha Plant's a no-brainer for cuts. Don't expect to see them after Ultimate tbh, this game will be their time in the limelight.
:ultbrawler::ultswordfighter::ultgunner: - Ultimate counts them as three characters, so I'm doing the same. They're a gimmick character, it's fun to meme with some friends and play as Thanos or Garfield or something, but the characters themselves are underwhelming, mostly have diet versions of other character's moves, and just aren't fun to play honestly. And while relevance isn't everything, even the Mii feature itself is becoming sloooowly phased out, Miis are hidden in a menu on the Switch instead of having a dedicated Mii app like the Wii, Wii U, and 3DS.
 
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The guests have gotta go (except Banjo):ultryu:/:ultken:, :ultsnake:, :ultsimon:/:ultrichter:, :ultbayonetta:, :ultsonic:, :ultjoker:, :ulthero:, :ultpacman:, :ultcloud:, :ultmegaman:.

Then a few echos (make 'em alt costumes or something): :ultlucina:,:ultdarkpit:, :ultchrom:, :ultdaisy:.

Then retire these: :ultyounglink:, :ultsheik:, :ultdoc:, :ultlucario:, :ultbowserjr:, :ultlittlemac:.

(I did hit reply before i properly finished by accident btw, so whoops I guess)
 
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