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I Will Believe In Myself: Miles "Tails" Prower Support Thread

The Snitch Studio

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I really don't know how to feel about Vergeben, on one hand he's kept up his reputation, but on the other hand he has been wrong before like with the Castle Vania tie in with a new game for Switch. Honestly, as long as at least Shadow isn't in the base, then I don't mind waiting through DLC for Tails, it's just going to be more painful, I really didn't want to wait possiblely 8 years for Tails, I've promised to myself that if Tails doesn't appear in Ultimate, I'll finally give up.

But, I do think other characters like Geno, Skull Kid deserve to be revealed first, it's fair for those fans, I always sacrifice my character for others to get there's, I'm just like that. Honestly, I think we could go without a Pokemon in the base game, keep Incineroar for DLC, and add one last fan character, but the only thing I'm hoping Vergeben will leak is that the Box art is subject to change, we've came this far, the farest we've ever got, it can't fall apart now.
 
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DeltaSceptile

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Could you please at least keep an open mind on the faintest possibility that he's not as horrible as you make him out to be? chalking it all up to "luck" is so narrow-minded, it baffles me that this is what people are agreeing to think about the most accurate leak we currently have.

I don't even care if he's right or wrong anymore, but I'm getting really tired of everybody sticking themselves in an echo chamber of what they want to believe, which apparently is nothing cause everything I've seen come up is 100% discarded by the majority with fallacious reasoning.
He’s horrible regardless of what you say because leaking is a ****ty thing to do.
 

The Snitch Studio

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He’s horrible regardless of what you say because leaking is a ****ty thing to do.
I totally understand, Leaks can ruin surprises, but they at least make us know the truth that false hope. Let's Just Hope Vergeben says something which can help are chances, or why not politely ask him if any Sonic reps are incoming or his personal thoughts, separate from the Leaks, worth a shot? Right?
 

SonicMario

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I really don't know how to feel about Vergeben, on one hand he's kept up his reputation, but on the other hand he has been wrong before like with the Castle Vania tie in with a new game for Switch. Honestly, as long as at least Shadow isn't in the base, then I don't mind waiting through DLC for Tails, it's just going to be more painful, I really didn't want to wait possiblely 8 years for Tails, I've promised to myself that if Tails doesn't appear in Ultimate, I'll finally give up.

But, I do think other characters like Geno, Skull Kid deserve to be revealed first, it's fair for those fans, I always sacrifice my character for others to get there's, I'm just like that. Honestly, I think we could go without a Pokemon in the base game, keep Incineroar for DLC, and add one last fan character, but the only thing I'm hoping Vergeben will leak is that the Box art is subject to change, we've came this far, the farest we've ever got, it can't fall apart now.
Verge has doubled down on Incineroar though. So if both Vergeben and the Box are correct then Ken and Incineroar is it for the base game.

He is however investigating about his 2nd Square Enix rep. Which could be Geno being the first DLC character. Which would indicate Mii costume and/or Ballot newcomers are still continuing on beyond the base game. I think it will ultimately be good news for Tails' DLC chances if Geno is indeed the first DLC character. Both Geno and him were among the last Mii costumes announced.

The only way Tails could be in the base game is for the first time Verge is mistaken about a character. And there's a trailer that reveals Ken but since he'd be an echo he wouldn't be the main announcement, I've mentioned it a few times already in the thread. But a "The Friends" trailer as a counterpart to the K. Rool Trailer would be perfect to have Ken & Tails. And they'd be the final base game newcomers in this scenario. I've felt from the very moment "Everyone is here!" was a thing Tails would have to wait for DLC though because that's alot of characters to consider and as much we love the little guy, there were more priorities for the base game. Though at least we may no longer have to worry about Shadow being the only base game addition for Sonic characters and they ignore Tails entirely even in DLC because they feel 2 Sonic characters is enough.
 

Jigglymaster

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He’s horrible regardless of what you say because leaking is a ****ty thing to do.
Not trying to defend him as a person. I could care less about the man himself and I've never known him prior. But you should probably put aside any personal differences with the guy and just accept the fact that he has real enough information that you have to take him seriously.

Let's Just Hope Vergeben says something which can help are chances, or why not politely ask him if any Sonic reps are incoming or his personal thoughts, separate from the Leaks, worth a shot? Right?

Verg will absolutely not respond to a question like that. He will only say things if all of his sources confirm something. People will hound him and take any word he says out of context at this point in order to prove him false. So in other words, no, he will not respond to a question like that for any character.


The only way Tails could be in the base game is for the first time Verge is mistaken about a character.
That's seeming to be unlikely at this point. He's doubled down on Incineroar, has been absolutely sure with Ken, and claims that his SE source does not have a habit of being wrong. It's more likely that the only way Tails makes it into the base game is that the Box Theory is wrong and that Verg simply never got any sources saying Tails was playable.

At this point I think our base campaign is looking to be over. Too much is going against Tails right now. DLC may be were he resides and were all our original hopes and percentages of him being the game currently lie.
 
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The Snitch Studio

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Verg will absolutely not respond to a question like that. He will only say things if all of his sources confirm something. People will hound him and take any word he says out of context at this point in order to prove him false. So in other words, no, he will not respond to a question like that for any character.
Just Worth Asking. :p

Verge has doubled down on Incineroar though. So if both Vergeben and the Box are correct then Ken and Incineroar is it for the base game.

He is however investigating about his 2nd Square Enix rep. Which could be Geno being the first DLC character. Which would indicate Mii costume and/or Ballot newcomers are still continuing on beyond the base game. I think it will ultimately be good news for Tails' DLC chances if Geno is indeed the first DLC character. Both Geno and him were among the last Mii costumes announced.

The only way Tails could be in the base game is for the first time Verge is mistaken about a character. And there's a trailer that reveals Ken but since he'd be an echo he wouldn't be the main announcement, I've mentioned it a few times already in the thread. But a "The Friends" trailer as a counterpart to the K. Rool Trailer would be perfect to have Ken & Tails. And they'd be the final base game newcomers in this scenario. I've felt from the very moment "Everyone is here!" was a thing Tails would have to wait for DLC though because that's alot of characters to consider and as much we love the little guy, there were more priorities for the base game. Though at least we may no longer have to worry about Shadow being the only base game addition for Sonic characters and they ignore Tails entirely even in DLC because they feel 2 Sonic characters is enough.
Definitely See That As A Point For Us, never knew that a wooden puppet from a different series would potentially help the chances of a Sonic Character! I'm getting used to the idea of DLC, well, who wouldn't? But it would make us wait longer. :/
 

DeltaSceptile

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That's seeming to be unlikely at this point. He's doubled down on Incineroar, has been absolutely sure with Ken, and claims that his SE source does not have a habit of being wrong. It's more likely that the only way Tails makes it into the base game is that the Box Theory is wrong and that Verg simply never got any sources saying Tails was playable.

At this point I think our base campaign is looking to be over. Too much is going against Tails right now. DLC may be were he resides and were all our original hopes and percentages of him being the game currently lie.
So you’re just gonna side witch Verge and say there’s only one unique and one echo left for the base roster? That’s kind of ignorant considering how long we still have til release. Face it, the guy doesn’t have all the info. We can always hold out for Tails, just look at the fact that Verge said nothing about K. Rool or any of the new echoes, yet they are here. Why? Because Vergeben is an unreliable pile of trash who is ruining the smash community and skewing it so now people exclusively believe in Ken and Incineroar. Hate to be that guy, but there’s no way the base roster is gonna end like that, not unless you wanna discount every unique possibility that ever happened for a clone and that one gen 7 mon that nobody likes.
 

Chrono.

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I agree with Jigglymaster, honestly.

It feels like we're at the end of the road here for the regular roster and everything else fits too well together. I doubt Verge doesn't have all the info at this point. Just hope for the best regarding DLC and Tails.

And if he doesn't I'll be pleasantly surprised.
 

Jigglymaster

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So you’re just gonna side witch Verge and say there’s only one unique and one echo left for the base roster? That’s kind of ignorant considering how long we still have til release. Face it, the guy doesn’t have all the info. We can always hold out for Tails, just look at the fact that Verge said nothing about K. Rool or any of the new echoes, yet they are here. Why? Because Vergeben is an unreliable pile of trash who is ruining the smash community and skewing it so now people exclusively believe in Ken and Incineroar. Hate to be that guy, but there’s no way the base roster is gonna end like that, not unless you wanna discount every unique possibility that ever happened for a clone and that one gen 7 mon that nobody likes.
I never said that Vergeben has all of the information. It's the Box theory that prevents any more characters. Vergeben did not create the Box theory, it just happens to support the characters he leaked.

I don't think it's ignorant at all to think that way either. You're like... being massively hostile towards Verg for no reason.

I believed Gematsu as well and I was so happy to be wrong when Robin's trailer hit. But at the time, I believed it was correct and it was to a certain extent. This feels like the exact same thing over again. Just instead of it being Gematsu + ESRB, its now Vergeben + Box Theory.

I want Tails in as much as you do, if not more. Why do you say "hate to be that guy" when what you're saying is literally what we want? It hurts a lot to know that there are only 2 characters left, and one of them is an echo. It hurts, I know. But I'm being honest with myself and I'll either have set up my expectations to be lower, or be pleasantly surprised that I'm wrong. I WANT to be wrong, I HOPE that I'm wrong.

So despite all that I want and everything I hope for, I believe in Verg/Box Theory because it makes the most logical sense to me, and not because I'm ignorant.

I'm willing to bet that so many people would be singing a different tune if the Box Theory suggested we were getting like 8 new characters or something. Stop letting your own emotions get in the way and think about this seriously.
 
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DeltaSceptile

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Can you guys try to be hopeful for Tails if you actually want him? Don’t give up preemptively when you know there’s still a chance.
 

Jigglymaster

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Can you guys try to be hopeful for Tails if you actually want him? Don’t give up preemptively when you know there’s still a chance.
There's a difference between wanting him and willing to be ignorant about wanting him. You can't just go "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" every time there's evidence against Tails' inclusion in the base roster. If something pops up in his favor, then sure, we'll be optimistic about it. There's a high chance for him to even be DLC still!

Plenty of things like the Mii Costume Theory and the Music theory currently work in his favor, it's just that we've gone over it a million times at this point and there's nothing really new to bring to the table.
 

The Snitch Studio

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I Would Like To Bring An Idea Up, What If Sakurai Knew About The Sonic & Tails Hoex from the EGM Issue?

Sakurai loves to add things people want, and also completes old ideas or cool stuff that would make old speculation true! Let's take Ditto, he got scrapped in Melee, Left out in Brawl and Wii U/3DS and now was added into Ultimate, and how Ridley was this impossible character that everyone wanted but thought could never happen, but Sakurai did it, he likes to please fans, why not make the April Fools Joke into a real edition? Nothing groundbreaking but just a neat idea.
 

SonicMario

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I
Wait for the next direct announcement: If there really is only Ken and 1 echo left... theres only going to be one more smash direct for us to watch. If it doesn't happen in October, then it's most likely the case that this is all we're getting. If it DOES happen in October, we can allow ourselves to be highly skeptical of the box theory.
Pardon I go back something you mentioned two pages ago. But doesn't the special edition that is the center of this box theory release on November 2nd or did I mishear that somewhere? If that's the case then we should probably get the direct in October because then every character on the box will have been revealed by that point. Of course maybe the Smash direct is RIGHT on November 1st the very day before the Special Edition is supposed to release.

If I was mistaken and the Special Edition still comes out the same day as the game then yeah it's plausible we get absolutely nothing in October. But thought I'd least ask about this because I could of sworn I heard this special edition is sent early for those who get it they just get a download code that does not work until Ultimate is released. (Or at least until pre-release downloads start anyway)

EDIT: Not to mention November might be directed more towards Pokemon Let's Go

EDIT2: Maybe I confused it with the November 2nd release of the Smash Switch bundle in the direct.
 
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Jigglymaster

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Pardon I go back something you mentioned two pages ago. But doesn't the special edition that is the center of this box theory release on November 2nd or did I mishear that somewhere? If that's the case then we should probably get the direct in October because then every character on the box will have been revealed by that point. Of course maybe the Smash direct is RIGHT on November 1st the very day before the Special Edition is supposed to release.

If I was mistaken and the Special Edition still comes out the same day as the game then yeah it's plausible we get absolutely nothing in October. But thought I'd least ask about this because I could of sworn I heard this special edition is sent early for those who get it they just get a download code that does not work until Ultimate is released. (Or at least until pre-release downloads start anyway)

EDIT: Not to mention November might be directed more towards Pokemon Let's Go

EDIT2: Maybe I confused it with the November 2nd release of the Smash Switch bundle in the direct.
I've been hearing about that... but I don't THINK that's related to the box? I honestly have no idea. There's the switch bundle and then theres the special edition. I don't know if they're the same thing.
 

SonicMario

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I've been hearing about that... but I don't THINK that's related to the box? I honestly have no idea. There's the switch bundle and then theres the special edition. I don't know if they're the same thing.
Yeah I may have simply confused it with the Switch Bundle during the Direct.

The Switch Bundle is most definitely coming out on November 2nd that comes with a gamecube adapter, Gamecube controller, and a download code for the game that does not work until the game is at least up until pre-purchase.

As for the special edition box that is the heart of the theory. Maybe it's still releasing on the same day as the game since it releases with the Pro Controller which has been always set to release on the same day of the game. In that case then yeah it's still possible there's no Smash news in October and we get something in mid-November instead for the final Smash direct. Though I think it's still possible October is the final Smash direct anyway just because November might have Nintendo focused on Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee and/or other Holiday games. Heck there's a few games apparently coming out this Winter that still don't have an exact release day (Team Sonic Racing and the Katamari game revealed in the last direct) for some titles

Plus they seem to be making Smash info drop-offs bi-monthly. We got the E3 direct in June of course, nothing in July, then a Smash direct in August, a regular direct this month that revealed only one character, and then October. So I still think an October direct is possible and may not necessarily mean it makes the box theory any less likely because it could very well be more like the E3 direct where we only got one echo (Daisy) and one newcomer (Ridley) back then.
 
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RineYFD

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Can you guys try to be hopeful for Tails if you actually want him? Don’t give up preemptively when you know there’s still a chance.
Woaaah there buddy.
No-one said they aren't being hopeful about Tails. But sometimes we have to look at this type of stuff.
I too don't believe Vergeban for the same reasons. Yes, leaks like this have happened in the past and have correctly guessed a few fighters but were then false, so I too am very sketchy of Verge. But that doesn't mean we'll make a blind eye to some of the things he says or some of the other rumours going around.
I Would Like To Bring An Idea Up, What If Sakurai Knew About The Sonic & Tails Hoex from the EGM Issue?

Sakurai loves to add things people want, and also completes old ideas or cool stuff that would make old speculation true! Let's take Ditto, he got scrapped in Melee, Left out in Brawl and Wii U/3DS and now was added into Ultimate, and how Ridley was this impossible character that everyone wanted but thought could never happen, but Sakurai did it, he likes to please fans, why not make the April Fools Joke into a real edition? Nothing groundbreaking but just a neat idea.
In all honesty that'd be amazing. If I unlock Tails in Ultimate and it says "A Dream has been cast! Tails joins the Battle!" I don't think I'll be prepared for that type of fanservice.
Yeah I may have simply confused it with the Switch Bundle during the Direct.

The Switch Bundle is most definitely coming out on November 2nd that comes with a gamecube adapter, Gamecube controller, and a download code for the game that does not work until the game is at least up until pre-purchase.

As for the special edition box that is the heart of the theory. Maybe it's still releasing on the same day as the game since it releases with the Pro Controller which has been always set to release on the same day of the game. In that case then yeah it's still possible there's no Smash news in October and we get something in mid-November instead for the final Smash direct. Though I think it's still possible October is the final Smash direct anyway just because November might have Nintendo focused on Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee and/or other Holiday games. Heck there's a few games apparently coming out this Winter that still don't have an exact release day (Team Sonic Racing and the Katamari game revealed in the last direct) for some titles

Plus they seem to be making Smash info drop-offs bi-monthly. We got the E3 direct in June of course, nothing in July, then a Smash direct in August, a regular direct this month that revealed only one character, and then October. So I still think an October direct is possible and may not necessarily mean it makes the box theory any less likely because it could very well be more like the E3 direct where we only got one echo (Daisy) and one newcomer (Ridley) back then.
I think we might get something in October. Sakurai did say they would unveil new information about the game up to the game's release monthly.
Unless I'm taking this to literal like how Sakurai said to expect 1 or 2 more Third Party character(s) in Brawl and people were expecting Megaman.
Oh yeah, I forgot. Pokemon Lets Go was a thing. *sighs* That game looks way too easy and they are just trying to cram Pokemon Go mechanics down our throats.
 

The Snitch Studio

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To be Honest, if Tails made it and there was no sign for Shadow, I wouldn't feel sorry for those fans, I know, that's very mean to say, but Shadow fans I've interacted with over Twitter have literally called me and think I'm delusional for thinking Tails as a shot, someone said that Shadow has a wayyy better chance than Tails, and I really don't aggre with that.

Just another example on how the Sonic Fanbase needs to be put into there place. Imagine Sega said 'We will bw making what WE want to make, and we won't let are fans (except actual fans) drive are beloved franchises into the ground.'

Again, Not Trying To Be Mean, Just Seeing What Everyone Thinks...
 

SonicMario

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To be Honest, if Tails made it and there was no sign for Shadow, I wouldn't feel sorry for those fans, I know, that's very mean to say, but Shadow fans I've interacted with over Twitter have literally called me and think I'm delusional for thinking Tails as a shot, someone said that Shadow has a wayyy better chance than Tails, and I really don't aggre with that.

Just another example on how the Sonic Fanbase needs to be put into there place. Imagine Sega said 'We will bw making what WE want to make, and we won't let are fans (except actual fans) drive are beloved franchises into the ground.'

Again, Not Trying To Be Mean, Just Seeing What Everyone Thinks...
That's kinda the sad thing in regards to competition here. Ever since Echo Fighters were revealed, Shadow has been considered a very likely choice since he's a no brainer to be put with Sonic. And ever since Richter and Chrom's announcement it's made people practically confident Shadow will be playable. Though now after Isabelle, Tails has a shot since Isabelle is yet another upgraded Mii Costume and we now know Ultimate's newcomers can have non-echo "clone" fighters that are closer to the Brawl style semi-clones we got. So now Tails seems like a threat to Shadow fans. Even though it's plausible to get both. Just... not in the base game anyway.

Tails and Shadow fans should actually start thinking of working together if neither are in the base game. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Though asking two sides of the Sonic fanbase can be asking alot, because Tails fans might contain the classic-only fans that refuse to support Shadow at all and on the flip side Shadow fans who just view Tails as the weak cowardly sidekick that isn't their badass edgy hedgehog.

If neither Tails or Shadow are playable in the base game, we should extend our condolences. But also perk them up and give them a handshake as we start to work together to campaign for both for DLC. I am quite positive Tails as a DLC fighter packaged with Shadow as an echo fighter is possible. But it should be campaigned for regardless cause we don't know when DLC will even start. I figure maybe for the exception of one DLC fighter they may want to give the base game it's time in the spotlight before heading straight back in into the speculation woods.
 

Zoljinx_

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I think we might get something in October. Sakurai did say they would unveil new information about the game up to the game's release monthly.
I think he said they'd be announcing things up until launch, but i don't think he said monthly. though I wouldn't put it past them to talk about smash at least once a month, given that it's their big holiday game.

I Would Like To Bring An Idea Up, What If Sakurai Knew About The Sonic & Tails Hoex from the EGM Issue?

Sakurai loves to add things people want, and also completes old ideas or cool stuff that would make old speculation true! Let's take Ditto, he got scrapped in Melee, Left out in Brawl and Wii U/3DS and now was added into Ultimate, and how Ridley was this impossible character that everyone wanted but thought could never happen, but Sakurai did it, he likes to please fans, why not make the April Fools Joke into a real edition? Nothing groundbreaking but just a neat idea.
It is a very "Sakurai" thing to do to bring stuff like that into the game. you also can't forget Cloud, literally the character who was a nearly Shrek-tier meme character for a while there pre-Wii U/3DS. It's very likely that Sakurai knows about the hoax, and if he decided to include Tails, I'd love to see the melee hoax be referenced in Tails' reveal in some way.
 

MacDaddyNook

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That's kinda the sad thing in regards to competition here. Ever since Echo Fighters were revealed, Shadow has been considered a very likely choice since he's a no brainer to be put with Sonic. And ever since Richter and Chrom's announcement it's made people practically confident Shadow will be playable. Though now after Isabelle, Tails has a shot since Isabelle is yet another upgraded Mii Costume and we now know Ultimate's newcomers can have non-echo "clone" fighters that are closer to the Brawl style semi-clones we got. So now Tails seems like a threat to Shadow fans. Even though it's plausible to get both. Just... not in the base game anyway.

Tails and Shadow fans should actually start thinking of working together if neither are in the base game. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Though asking two sides of the Sonic fanbase can be asking alot, because Tails fans might contain the classic-only fans that refuse to support Shadow at all and on the flip side Shadow fans who just view Tails as the weak cowardly sidekick that isn't their badass edgy hedgehog.

If neither Tails or Shadow are playable in the base game, we should extend our condolences. But also perk them up and give them a handshake as we start to work together to campaign for both for DLC. I am quite positive Tails as a DLC fighter packaged with Shadow as an echo fighter is possible. But it should be campaigned for regardless cause we don't know when DLC will even start. I figure maybe for the exception of one DLC fighter they may want to give the base game it's time in the spotlight before heading straight back in into the speculation woods.
Getting the Sonic fanbase to cooperate on anything is a Sysphusean task. They can't even agree on his eye color.

But in all seriousness, there's no need for animosity. Just keep supporting the character you want, if the fans keep at it, it may eventually get Sakurai's attention.
 

RineYFD

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I think he said they'd be announcing things up until launch, but i don't think he said monthly. though I wouldn't put it past them to talk about smash at least once a month, given that it's their big holiday game.



It is a very "Sakurai" thing to do to bring stuff like that into the game. you also can't forget Cloud, literally the character who was a nearly Shrek-tier meme character for a while there pre-Wii U/3DS. It's very likely that Sakurai knows about the hoax, and if he decided to include Tails, I'd love to see the melee hoax be referenced in Tails' reveal in some way.
Oh sorry. My memory is just playing up. But yeah it would totally make sense for them to release new informtaion each month.
Getting the Sonic fanbase to cooperate on anything is a Sysphusean task. They can't even agree on his eye color.

But in all seriousness, there's no need for animosity. Just keep supporting the character you want, if the fans keep at it, it may eventually get Sakurai's attention.
That's sadly true. Then again any fanbase really is the same.
 

SonicMario

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Funnily enough, I know that the general feeling that the box theory spreads pessimism to nearly every character speculation except for Ken and Incineroar. But honestly, I'm probably more optimistic for Tails then I was prior with the combination of this and Isabelle's reveal.

Shadow seeming like an inevitable addition since Echo Fighters were introduced and/or since Richter was revealed probably nearly always got Tails completely shut down as a possibility. Because the general thought was if Sonic's getting another character it can only be an echo Shadow and nothing else. I've never actually thought Shadow was practically assured but at least still quite likely and the thought of Shadow joining the fight without Tails throughout the entire game's speculation period had been leaving me kind of dreading the day Shadow is confirmed as an echo fighter. But no matter how much I prepared for it, if it happened I'd still have that feeling of sadness of seeing Shadow up there amongst the roster while my dream of seeing Mario & Luigi Vs. Sonic & Tails in Smash is never realized. I do have to admit, I'd almost rather Sonic be alone again throughout all of Ultimate rather then see ONLY Shadow be added and that's it.

But if the box theory is true, it casts humongous doubt on Shadow in the base game. So even if Shadow gets in the game and Tails doesn't later through DLC. I can at least choose not to buy him (Unless Echoes are going to be offered as free updates or something like that). But I feel like they'd want to put in more then just Shadow to get money from Sonic fans, and a semi-clone Tails would be perfect for that.

I know it sounds strange that something that says only two characters are left in the base game has actually made me more hopeful for anyone. But in my case, I've felt from the moment "Everyone is here!" was announced with the focus on bringing back every veteran there wasn't going to be much space for Tails in the base game. The dread of Shadow being in the base game and nothing else going for Sonic possibly being gone plus the fact I'm already pretty happy with the roster I have now. Is why I'm actually not too sad if the box theory is it.

Tails is the only character at this point I truly want as anybody else is just more whip cream on top. Nearly every character that's made it into Smash since Sonic got into the series is kind of like that for me actually, but Tails is the only character I'd be more hyped for then I was with Sonic nearly 11 years ago. So that's saying something. I'm sorry if constantly talking about the box theory here has got some of you down. But just know it's not coming out of a source of pessimism from my point of view. I feel this just makes Tails potential path to Smash a little more clearer if it happens in this game. The road is through this game's DLC. I know it's painful to have to wait longer for your favorite characters and there's no guarantee Tails will be DLC given there may be others that may get in including more recent Switch-era characters like Spring Man or Rex & Pyra. But if the Mii costume upgrading continues past base game, Tails has a legit chance here.
 

DeltaSceptile

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Funnily enough, I know that the general feeling that the box theory spreads pessimism to nearly every character speculation except for Ken and Incineroar. But honestly, I'm probably more optimistic for Tails then I was prior with the combination of this and Isabelle's reveal.

Shadow seeming like an inevitable addition since Echo Fighters were introduced and/or since Richter was revealed probably nearly always got Tails completely shut down as a possibility. Because the general thought was if Sonic's getting another character it can only be an echo Shadow and nothing else. I've never actually thought Shadow was practically assured but at least still quite likely and the thought of Shadow joining the fight without Tails throughout the entire game's speculation period had been leaving me kind of dreading the day Shadow is confirmed as an echo fighter. But no matter how much I prepared for it, if it happened I'd still have that feeling of sadness of seeing Shadow up there amongst the roster while my dream of seeing Mario & Luigi Vs. Sonic & Tails in Smash is never realized. I do have to admit, I'd almost rather Sonic be alone again throughout all of Ultimate rather then see ONLY Shadow be added and that's it.

But if the box theory is true, it casts humongous doubt on Shadow in the base game. So even if Shadow gets in the game and Tails doesn't later through DLC. I can at least choose not to buy him (Unless Echoes are going to be offered as free updates or something like that). But I feel like they'd want to put in more then just Shadow to get money from Sonic fans, and a semi-clone Tails would be perfect for that.

I know it sounds strange that something that says only two characters are left in the base game has actually made me more hopeful for anyone. But in my case, I've felt from the moment "Everyone is here!" was announced with the focus on bringing back every veteran there wasn't going to be much space for Tails in the base game. The dread of Shadow being in the base game and nothing else going for Sonic possibly being gone plus the fact I'm already pretty happy with the roster I have now. Is why I'm actually not too sad if the box theory is it.

Tails is the only character at this point I truly want as anybody else is just more whip cream on top. Nearly every character that's made it into Smash since Sonic got into the series is kind of like that for me actually, but Tails is the only character I'd be more hyped for then I was with Sonic nearly 11 years ago. So that's saying something. I'm sorry if constantly talking about the box theory here has got some of you down. But just know it's not coming out of a source of pessimism from my point of view. I feel this just makes Tails potential path to Smash a little more clearer if it happens in this game. The road is through this game's DLC. I know it's painful to have to wait longer for your favorite characters and there's no guarantee Tails will be DLC given there may be others that may get in including more recent Switch-era characters like Spring Man or Rex & Pyra. But if the Mii costume upgrading continues past base game, Tails has a legit chance here.
Thanks for not referring heavily to the box theory and giving up like some people I’ve seen here. You give me slight hope for the Tails community.
 

SonicMario

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Maybe to get a little more actual Tails discussion. What characters do you think Tails would make team matches with other then Sonic? Assuming Tails is a semi-clone like Isabelle that shares at least 1-2 special moves (Mostly the spin dash) but maintains his flying ability?

If Tails is able to carry other characters. A Tails and Little Mac might be a force to be reckoned with. Tails able to help in terms of Little Mac's poor recovery. I also presume some of Tails' best attacks would be in the air so for what Little Mac lacks in air game Tails can help on that end plus Tails should still be plenty fast on the ground speed even if they slow him down a little so Sonic maintains his title of fastest in the game.
 

Jigglymaster

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Well tomorrow should be interesting, it’s music day and if my music theory is correct, the next song should belong to Animal crossing. Even if it isn’t, I wanna check the blog number it comes along with, since the one from last week was skipped over and replaced by the pikmin song.

This is a theory that supports tails currently, so let’s hope that it goes in the direction that we want it to.
 

RineYFD

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Thanks for not referring heavily to the box theory and giving up like some people I’ve seen here. You give me slight hope for the Tails community.
Again we are not giving up. I am desperately hoping Tails makes it in. But again we have to look at rumours and leaks. We can't just turn a blind eye to everything. Like you I don't believe with the box theory or Vergeban. But that doesn't mean others here won't look at it. Others can have their opinions on wthether it's true or not and I'm okay with that.
Maybe to get a little more actual Tails discussion. What characters do you think Tails would make team matches with other then Sonic? Assuming Tails is a semi-clone like Isabelle that shares at least 1-2 special moves (Mostly the spin dash) but maintains his flying ability?

If Tails is able to carry other characters. A Tails and Little Mac might be a force to be reckoned with. Tails able to help in terms of Little Mac's poor recovery. I also presume some of Tails' best attacks would be in the air so for what Little Mac lacks in air game Tails can help on that end plus Tails should still be plenty fast on the ground speed even if they slow him down a little so Sonic maintains his title of fastest in the game.
Jesus that would be a force to be reckoned with. Assuming Tails could carry other players.
A Luigi and Tails tag-team would be perfect. Or maybe we could do the opposite teams here and have Mario and Tails Vs. Sonic and Luigi.
Tails and Pit/ or Kirby would be a perfect flying team.
Tails and Fox, since they are both foxes who pilot aircrafts and fight with technology.
 

Zoljinx_

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Maybe to get a little more actual Tails discussion. What characters do you think Tails would make team matches with other then Sonic? Assuming Tails is a semi-clone like Isabelle that shares at least 1-2 special moves (Mostly the spin dash) but maintains his flying ability?

If Tails is able to carry other characters. A Tails and Little Mac might be a force to be reckoned with. Tails able to help in terms of Little Mac's poor recovery. I also presume some of Tails' best attacks would be in the air so for what Little Mac lacks in air game Tails can help on that end plus Tails should still be plenty fast on the ground speed even if they slow him down a little so Sonic maintains his title of fastest in the game.
Well, assuming he has the ability to carry other characters, I'd say pretty much anybody that has a poor recovery, preferably one that doesn't hit above them and/or sends them back down like aether. otherwise, I think Tails would have a strong air game overall, so any character with a good ground game would work to compliment that.

============

So we got another theory to maybe help back us up. someone in the Geno thread recently shared this reddit post regarding the potential remaining newcomers by using the patterns of the Blog posts. and while I'd be considered a "box theorist," I have to say I'd rather believe the math here.

In short, the average number of character trailers shown for the smash blog posts per week equals 2.9, meaning if that remains consistent for the remaining 12 weeks we have until release, there would be approximately 8 characters unaccounted for.

This also doesn't affect most other theories being talked about right now, such as the music theory, or the Mii costume theory. The only one it does seem to conflict with is the Box theory, which at this point, I'm willing to agree that it is not final.

here's hoping that the math doesn't fail us here, and that Tails is one of these supposed 8 characters!
 

gebi

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Did not see this thread until now. Please add me to the supporter list when you get the chance OP. :)
 

SmashBro99

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I didn't get Knuckles so Tails is the Sonic rep I want! supporting
 

valkiriforce

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Never bought the box theory to begin with; I'm glad people are seeing the consistency of blog posts and the possibility of more characters than what has been talked about.

A lot of people seem to think that Shadow is a very high possibility, but if it happens that we get Sonic, Shadow and assist trophy Knuckles, then where is Tails? It would be kind of odd to have all of those characters and no sign of Sonic's buddy Tails, so I would think Tails could possibly be revealed as an echo of Sonic. I don't think it's too far out of the realm of possibility given that both Shadow has been missing as an assist trophy and Tails has his Mii Fighter costume themed after him as potential evidence for fighter consideration. Now, I'm not discounting the possibility of it just being Tails...or if by chance it was just Shadow, I would think Tails has to be a strong contender for DLC at some point, but I don't want to jump too far down the line. I think he has a good chance for the base roster personally, we just have to wait until October/November and see what happens.
 

SonicMario

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Well, assuming he has the ability to carry other characters, I'd say pretty much anybody that has a poor recovery, preferably one that doesn't hit above them and/or sends them back down like aether. otherwise, I think Tails would have a strong air game overall, so any character with a good ground game would work to compliment that.

============

So we got another theory to maybe help back us up. someone in the Geno thread recently shared this reddit post regarding the potential remaining newcomers by using the patterns of the Blog posts. and while I'd be considered a "box theorist," I have to say I'd rather believe the math here.

In short, the average number of character trailers shown for the smash blog posts per week equals 2.9, meaning if that remains consistent for the remaining 12 weeks we have until release, there would be approximately 8 characters unaccounted for.

This also doesn't affect most other theories being talked about right now, such as the music theory, or the Mii costume theory. The only one it does seem to conflict with is the Box theory, which at this point, I'm willing to agree that it is not final.

here's hoping that the math doesn't fail us here, and that Tails is one of these supposed 8 characters!
The problem with this is the blog hasn't really been consistent. Most weeks yea there have been at least 3 characters a week but there have also been weeks where there were 4 or even just 2 characters.

There are 57 blog days left. With 28 known characters to go (And likely at least 2 more to be revealed), 7 new items, 5 new pokemon, and 8 assist trophies. There's also posts for stages even if they're old though they tend to only go up on music days since they usually add something more after the music is up. When it's not a stage it's usually an item of some sort. But anyway, that's 50 of the 57 but you also gotta account for music.

Tonight's update is probably Animal Crossing music after Isabelle's reveal. In fact there are 12 music days left (11 after today) before release. Assuming they don't just have another day where they have an unrepresented franchise get music. As Jigglymaster has been keeping track: Punch-Out, Pokemon, Earthbound/MOTHER, Kid Icarus, WarioWare, Wii Fit, Duck Hunt, Sonic, Pac-Man, Star Fox, Xenoblade, and possibly Mario Kart (Since for some reason there's 2 Mario sections in the music). Meaning it's quite plausible each of the remaining music days will be a different franchise though one would have to be left out (Probably either Duck Hunt since I'm not sure they'll really have much to remix with what they already had in Smash 4 or they may not do a Mario kart track since in regards doing the different variety of franchise music, Mario Kart may still count with Mario when we already got that fortress boss remix) at least until after release

Subtracting music days from the 57 there's 45 blog posts for other stuff meaning the characters plus new content for potential blog updates are more then blog days before release. Albeit certainly some of the the music posts may be accompanied with an item, assist trophy, or one of the new pokemon rather then a stage. Stages are pretty much the filler updates though since obviously there's no way all the stages will have a blog post on the site before the release date. Even if every music day from henceforth comes with Pokemon or assists there will be a few that won't be on the blog until release (Though it would knock out most of them and the others could be on other days randomly. But still most have accompanied stages). So not everything may be up by the time the game releases though if they do keep the 3 character's a week pace then yeah they may have all the characters up on the blog about 1-2 weeks before release. But be wary of the possibility they may only put up 2 sometimes or even just one or zero if they run out quickly enough.

History of posts accompanied with music days from most recent to the first music day

Pikmin music with Summit
Mario music with Final Destination
Yoshi music with New Donk City
Fire Emblem music with Togedemaru pokemon
Donkey Kong music with Dracula's Castle
Castlevania music with... Castlevania characters (This is kind of a special case where music day happened to fall on the day of a Smash Direct)
Galaga Medley with Lylat Cruise + Fake Smash Ball
F-Zero Music with Melee Peach's Castle
Metal Gear music with Wily Castle
Mega Man music with Alolan Raichu
Kirby music with Kongo Falls
Noisy Notebook with Sukapon assist trophy
Splatoon Music with Bomberman assist trophy

For the most part yeah, Music comes with mostly stages. But assist trophies and Pokemon are also kind of common with music.
Another thing looking back though there are days where they put up 3 things in one day so again that's an inconsistency that might be overlooked in trying to analyze the blog to determine how much is left character-wise.
 

Jigglymaster

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"New Smash Blog Post! (9/18/2018) "Today's Music - You can now check out "Happy Home Designer - Title Theme." Enjoy the arrangement by Kazumi Totaka, a staff member from the original game!"

Music theory still lives on. It was animal crossing just like I had predicted. This is further proof that even if the newcomer doesn't come with a new song in their trailer, that a song for their series will come alongside them anyways. I don't think its a coincidence that they waited this long to put animal crossing music on the website until after Isabelle was revealed.

Again, that leaves these franchises.
:ultlittlemac::ultwario::ultwiifittrainer::ultsonic::ultshulk::ultness::ultpacman::ultduckhunt::ultpokemontrainer::ultpit::ultmario:(Mario Kart)

Considering that :ultpokemontrainer: is still around, that's probably not a coincidence that we're getting a Gen 7 Pokemon.
The Music still bodes well for the :ultsonic: franchise. Since this theory only implies to newcomers, it could very well hint towards semi-clone Shadow, or newcomer Tails. Still could be a coincidence though, so lets hope that music for this franchise doesn't show up before Shadow/Tails does.

Other possible candidates leave :ultshulk::ultness::ultpit:. Not as likely for these three, but I would keep a watch out to see if their songs ever show up.

Every other franchise is not worth considering.
 

Chrono.

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Eh, idk.

I feel like the music theory supports Incineroar more than anyone else, At this point I've fully given up on the base roster having anyone beyond Incineroar and Ken.

DLC campaigning it is.
 

Jigglymaster

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I mean at this point, the best thing we can hope for is that a Pokemon song shows up before the next direct and hope that Vergeben is wrong about his pokemon source. I'm willing to bet it was coincidence that the Sonic Franchise just hasn't had website music yet but... who knows? Maybe it will lead somewhere.

At least we aren't Bandanna Dee or Skull Kid fans where Verge, Box theory, AND the music theory are working against them.
 

CaptainAmerica

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Hey, I don’t mind base or DLC. I just want to see Tails get in. I even wouldn’t care about echo, semi-clone, or unique. I can’t think of anyone more deserving of a slot at this point.

I really need to see the EGM hoax finally come true.
 

RineYFD

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I mean at this point, the best thing we can hope for is that a Pokemon song shows up before the next direct and hope that Vergeben is wrong about his pokemon source. I'm willing to bet it was coincidence that the Sonic Franchise just hasn't had website music yet but... who knows? Maybe it will lead somewhere.

At least we aren't Bandanna Dee or Skull Kid fans where Verge, Box theory, AND the music theory are working against them.
I'm hoping the Pokemon source is wrong altogether. I don't really like Incineroar. His design was always weird to me. I'd much prefer Decidueye or Primarina. And if we're getting another Fire-Type starter I'd rather have Infernape(Pokemon version of Goku basically).
Also, I'm an Adeleine supporter so it's, even more, worse for me then Bandana Dee's fate.
Still, don't believe in the box theory. We have two more months to go and I'm at least expecting one or two(most likely a new fighter and Echo) more reveal(s) in October and 3 or four(one/ two fighter(s) and two/three Echoes) more in November. There's also the possibility of a few secret fighters being hidden away as unlockables in Ultimate just like Wolf, Toon Link and Jigglypuff were in Brawl. And like Nintendo were trying to do with some of the unlockable fighters in 3DS/Wii U before the ERSB leak.
 
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SonicMario

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There's also the possibility of a few secret fighters being hidden away as unlockables in Ultimate just like Wolf, Toon Link and Jigglypuff were in Brawl. And like Nintendo were trying to do with some of the unlockable fighters in 3DS/Wii U before the ERSB leak.
Sorry Rine, but Sakurai's already said during the 8/8 direct they're revealing all the characters (at least base-game wise anyway) before launch.
 

MacDaddyNook

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have to agree with you there
And I have to disagree. ;)

Ininceroar is my favorite, so if the "leak" is true, I'll be very happy.

I still don't believe the "Box Theory" though, it seems like there's too much potential for a big push before the game comes out to only have one newcomer and one echo. If only two are what's left, they certainly squandered things by revealing so much in August, which doesn't make any sense to me at all. Plus, these kinds of "theories" always end up wrong anyway.
 
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