I Will Believe In Myself: Miles "Tails" Prower Support Thread

[MacDaddyNook]

I'm sorry, I can't buy this being the final full roster. Some of the devs didn't even know 'everyone is here!' and I'm expected to believe that the whole marketing department knows how many characters are left? And who's not getting echoes?

No.

They knew we'd go nuts trying to add up how many slots were left. Why would they just drop a full number on us when Sakurai's been so keen on keeping secretive about it? By this logic, Daisy, Ridley, Simon, Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus, K.Rool, and Isabelle are all not in the game because this official art says so!

I'm with Cap on this one. How many time have we looked as "spaces" and "slots" and came up with a number to be proven wrong?

I remember when people were trying to claim we'd have X number of characters because the CSS in Smash 4 could only fit so many, only for the CSS to be resized and reorganized to include more DLC fighters than expected. Or when people said the organization on the Brawl and Smash 4 websites eluded a specific number because there's no way they'd have uneven spaces. Heck, even now, people were trying to use Smashdown to predict a number because it had to add up to so many 2-player, 3-player, 4-player, 8-player combinations instead of figuring that the roster selection would either reset or the game end when it came to a number that didn't fit perfectly. Time and time and time again these kinds of predictions have been proven wrong, this really is no different.

Now, if this really is the final count in the base roster, I admit I am already pleased with what we have and Incineroar would be the cherry on top. Regardless, DLC can very well be a thing, so there still is hope to get Miles in.

 

[valkiriforce]

This was posted in the Geno thread so I wanted to share it here because it's interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...l_edition_box_seems_to_include_every/e5zyqxs/

 

[MacDaddyNook]

This was posted in the Geno thread so I wanted to share it here because it's interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...l_edition_box_seems_to_include_every/e5zyqxs/

Yep, to me, the evidence is looking more against this theory. It's still possible, but I really don't think a mock-up of one side of the box is going to give away the final number.

Tails is still in the race. He isn't an AT. He's still a popular beloved character. And even if he's not in the base roster, there's the possibility of DLC. Who knows, with the success of Smash 4's DLC and how much Splatoon 2 has gotten from online support, we could see an even bigger DLC season than last game.

 

[SonicMario]

For now though it's best to have only that sliver of hope that maybe Ken and Tails are our final two. And the trailer of them is called "The Friends" as an opposite to "The Rivals" that revealed K. Rool.

But otherwise we should probably start planning a DLC campaign

 

[MacDaddyNook]

I do hope that the ballot returns. With some of the big faces either already in or given NPC role, plus the distance in time and thus shift in "flavor of the month" popularities, the new results should be interesting.

 

[volbound1700]

I would vote for him in DLC poll.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Here's what I'm thinking if this is really the case. DLC is coming sooner than we think. When Smash 4 Wii U was about to come out, we actually got a teaser trailer for our first DLC... even before the game was out!

I think a lot of people misunderstand when they say that they won't work on DLC until the game is finished. That doesn't mean they won't work on DLC until the game is out. The game is FINISHED right now. They are going to have a trailer for the first DLC before December. I can feel it in my bones.

"Geno is on the way! If you own the Nintendo Paid Online Services, you'll be able to get a FREE DOWNLOAD CODE! He will be out this spring"

I'm hypothesizing this because Geno was one of the very last Mii Costumes to have been added, as is Tails. There probably won't be a 2nd ballot, but rather they'll finish up the remaining characters from the ballot this way. I think that's something we can at least hope for.

 

[The Snitch Studio]

This Whole Tails Thread Has Been Nice Reading. Glad more people are showing there Tails support, the music theory is very interesting, but I don't believe the box theory yet, but let's hope the battle is in are favor! Weird how we were the underdog and Shadow was certain, but now the tables have turned!

Smash is insane!

 

[volbound1700]

This Whole Tails Thread Has Been Nice Reading. Glad more people are showing there Tails support, the music theory is very interesting, but I don't believe the box theory yet, but let's hope the battle is in are favor! Weird how we were the underdog and Shadow was certain, but now the tables have turned!

Smash is insane!

Tails is more popular than Shadow. Shadow's crowd is just louder.

 

[Deleted member]

I've been an advocate for a long time of Tails being who they'd probably pick if they added a second Sonic character. So color me surprised (what wisp would that be?) that Shadow seems like the most likely one nowadays.

Nothing against Shadow all in all. But you can still consider me a Tails supporter. Truth be told both of them would be pretty good additions.

 

[SonicMario]

I've been an advocate for a long time of Tails being who they'd probably pick if they added a second Sonic character. So color me surprised (what wisp would that be?) that Shadow seems like the most likely one nowadays.

Nothing against Shadow all in all. But you can still consider me a Tails supporter. Truth be told both of them would be pretty good additions.

Shadow was seen as likelier due to the existence of Echo Fighters. While we've speculated at one point of Tails also being the echo instead. We've always stated Shadow would be so much easier.

But now after Isabelle's reveal and now potentially the box theory making Shadow less likely even if there are more unique/semi-clone newcomers then the box theory says (Because in the group of 9 that Sonic is in, it's complete). Tails may now be just a more probable option. Though both can possibly come in together in DLC if Shadow's assist trophy is missing. Shadow as Sonic's Echo, Tails as an Isabelle-style semi-clone.

 

[Deleted member]

Shadow was seen as likelier due to the existence of Echo Fighters. While we've speculated at one point of Tails also being the echo instead. We've always stated Shadow would be so much easier.

But now after Isabelle's reveal and now potentially the box theory making Shadow less likely even if there are more unique/semi-clone newcomers then the box theory says (Because in the group of 9 that Sonic is in, it's complete). Tails may now be just a more probable option. Though both can possibly come in together in DLC if Shadow's assist trophy is missing. Shadow as Sonic's Echo, Tails as an Isabelle-style semi-clone.

Stating now, I think the box theory is completely false. The whole thing started from an assumption that has so many problems with it. I also don't think Isabelle not being an Echo Fighter means we won't see more Echo Fighters. And among those, none of the points that have been working in Shadow's favor have really lost any credibility.

 

[SonicMario]

I think at the very least the groupings of 9 is no coincidence. That just seems like such a specific design choice in mind just to be a mock-up when they could of easily just had like a Smash logo and nothing else as a placeholder where the characters would be or only show the front of the box. So I do think at the very least the part of the theory where there's only one echo remaining and it has to be within the row of characters numbered 54-61. Unique/Semi-clone newcomers if there's more then one could possibly be slapped onto the bottom of the box and/or even the back. But that's again only for potential unique/semi-clones because otherwise Shadow would be next to Sonic and break the group of 9 chain going on. So I think at the very least it casts doubt on Shadow and/or any other echoes for characters prior to Palutena's number being in the base game if the number of final characters is false.

 

[TheMagic1]

Put me on that support list. Tails is one of, if not, my favorite vg character of all time. I think he's very possible with Nintendo and Sega bein homies and Tails bein one of the most iconic Sonic characters. I got this lit moveset for him that I think really fits him, but Imma share that another time.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I want to relay some good news that may possibly counter the Box Theory!

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77007598?utm_source=reddit.com

https://imgur.com/a/Y24VaBn

CoroCoro magazine reveals that there are a total of 108 stages in the game. It makes sense since there was 6 empty slots on the Stage Select, and we know that the training room will fill out one of those slots in training mode only. That leaves 5 spots left which would make for 108.

If this is the case, I have a hard time seeing why they'd hide these stages UNLESS they were tied to newcomers. We already know that a Pokemon Rep wouldn't come with a new stage, nor would Ken. Even if both of them did, it wouldn't explain the other 3 missing stages.

This right now is the strongest evidence against the Box Theory.

Higher Quality: http://dotup.org/uploda/dotup.org1643534.jpg

 

[7NATOR]

http://dotup.org/uploda/dotup.org1643534.jpg

 

[SonicMario]

Hm I do think this might shake things up a bit and be a pleasant surprise.

I do however think 108 stages doesn't completely destroy the Box theory altogether. Just puts in doubt on the part that people interpreted there's only one unique/semi-clone character left. I do still think that an echo older then Palutena is not likely as of the moment. I imagine at least one or two of those 5 stages are tied to Newcomers but I have a feeling not all of them are.

Still if the only two characters left part is dead then I'm certainly happy with that and will gladly say I was wrong about that part at least. I'd rather there be more content in this game then me saying I was right on a message board on the internet. And this also certainly means Tails is still alive in base game possibilities.

I think the only chance of there being more echoes is if there's 2 Smash directs left. One in October that reveals a few more characters and probably talks about spirits mode. In which the material for the revealed game will be all that's on the special edition box. Heck maybe Ryu and Incineroar will still be the only characters in said direct just to make us worry that much more and then one last Smash direct weeks before release that totally surprises us after we all think the box theory was indeed it. I still feel like there's only one more direct though but at least it might be bigger character-wise then anticipated after al this theorizing.

 

[Zoljinx_]

I'll wait till the page is fully translated. I don't know how much it would correlate to the Box theory, as the stages may not be for new characters, like Vergeben's Minecraft stage leak for instance (yes I do think Vergeben is correct as he's been the most accurate leaker).

I'm willing to accept the box leak as true. Even though I'm still hoping we do get more then that by release day, i'm pretty content with how much they've already given us.

though 5 new stages can technically fit properly on a full screen desktop window at the bottom. (at least for me)

 

[SonicMario]

We.... might be back to square one already

There was a problem fetching the tweet

All it is is just 8/8 direct stuff. The only thing "new" is the 108 stages which could be a typo or a mistake by the writers because they thought the blank spaces meant there'd be more revealed later.

 

[Jigglymaster]

because they thought the blank spaces meant there'd be more revealed later.

It can't be that. There are 6 blank spaces making for a total of 109, not 108.

 

[Zoljinx_]

If it was a mistake then that's fine, but 108 does make more sense considering this tweet from PushDustin:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I think it does make some sense, but not going to hold my breath on it.

 

[RineYFD]

I do hope that the ballot returns. With some of the big faces either already in or given NPC role, plus the distance in time and thus shift in "flavor of the month" popularities, the new results should be interesting.

I for one do not want another Ballot.
I can already imagine the votes for a Fortnite avatar.

Here's what I'm thinking if this is really the case. DLC is coming sooner than we think. When Smash 4 Wii U was about to come out, we actually got a teaser trailer for our first DLC... even before the game was out!

I think a lot of people misunderstand when they say that they won't work on DLC until the game is finished. That doesn't mean they won't work on DLC until the game is out. The game is FINISHED right now. They are going to have a trailer for the first DLC before December. I can feel it in my bones.

"Geno is on the way! If you own the Nintendo Paid Online Services, you'll be able to get a FREE DOWNLOAD CODE! He will be out this spring"

I'm hypothesizing this because Geno was one of the very last Mii Costumes to have been added, as is Tails. There probably won't be a 2nd ballot, but rather they'll finish up the remaining characters from the ballot this way. I think that's something we can at least hope for.

Hm....... That would be interesting. But also strange since both Geno and Tails are DLC but Isabelle(Who probably didn't have many votes as them) made it in regardless. Not that I have anything against Isabelle(In fact I now love her. She's so freaking adorable), I just find it strange that she would make it in before Tails and Geno.

This Whole Tails Thread Has Been Nice Reading. Glad more people are showing there Tails support, the music theory is very interesting, but I don't believe the box theory yet, but let's hope the battle is in are favor! Weird how we were the underdog and Shadow was certain, but now the tables have turned!

Smash is insane!

Oh, the turned the tables are indeed!

If it was a mistake then that's fine, but 108 does make more sense considering this tweet from PushDustin:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I think it does make some sense, but not going to hold my breath on it.

I'd like to point out that Nintendo also has recently trademarked Golden Sun, Wrecking Crew(Some people are saying this could be Foreman Spike but I don't know. ), Mario Super Sluggers(Don't know who could be from this. Edit: Just realized they could have trademarked this for reference for K. Rool) and Rhythm Heaven. Remember before King K. Rool became a Mii Fighter in Smash 4, Nintendo trademarked him. So if this is true this plays extremely well into the 108 stage theory. And even more, evidence to go against the box theory. Definitely increases the chances for Chorus Kids/Karate Joe and Isaac.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If Tails ends up being playable, I could see him being as similar to Sonic as Isabelle is to Villager.

 

[SonicMario]

It can't be that. There are 6 blank spaces making for a total of 109, not 108.

It might be accounting for the fact Training mode's stage would be one of them exclusive to Training mode. Or assume there might be a button like in Smash 4 (in both versions) that is an arrow to potential DLC stages (If there's 5 stages in the base game or DLC adds more then 5 stages if it's still 103 in the base game anyway)

For now though, I think we're kind of back to square one with the box theory. Plus Verge has now doubled down on both Incineroar and Ken though he is at least trying to investigate his 3rd Square rep which may very well be just our first DLC character announcement just like Mewtwo was. Instead of looking at things to try to contradict the box theory we should instead look at it with conjunction with one another before saying one thing completely contradicts the other. Even if the 108 stages CoroCoro said is true, it does not destroy the entire theory.

 

[Chrono.]

Hm....... That would be interesting. But also strange since both Geno and Tails are DLC but Isabelle(Who probably didn't have many votes as them) made it in regardless. Not that I have anything against Isabelle(In fact I now love her. She's so freaking adorable), I just find it strange that she would make it in before Tails and Geno.

Isabelle is the face of AC. a first party character and popular in her own right.

She was kind of inevitable no matter what.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

It can't be that. There are 6 blank spaces making for a total of 109, not 108.

My thought is that there will be 5 more stages + the option to switch to a custom/dlc stage page.
Anyway, back to Tails. Anyone else want a Chemical Plant stage with his reveal?

 

[SonicMario]

My thought is that there will be 5 more stages + the option to switch to a custom/dlc stage page.
Anyway, back to Tails. Anyone else want a Chemical Plant stage with his reveal?

I don't think Tails will get a stage. I don't think a 3rd Sonic stage is coming barring Stage DLC. If Tails is in, they'll use Windy Hill Zone as his stage background on the website. Sonic uses Green Hill Zone since that's the original Brawl stage he came with in that game. Tails would have Windy Hill since Tails was in Sonic Lost World.

But yeah, a Sonic 2 stage would be cool if Tails can get one

 

[Chrono.]

I don't think Tails will get a stage. I don't think a 3rd Sonic stage is coming barring Stage DLC. If Tails is in, they'll use Windy Hill Zone as his stage background on the website. Sonic uses Green Hill Zone since that's the original Brawl stage he came with in that game. Tails would have Windy Hill since Tails was in Sonic Lost World.

But yeah, a Sonic 2 stage would be cool if Tails can get one

Now I wonder if both Tails and Shadow got in what would they use for Shadow's background on the website.

 

[SonicMario]

Now I wonder if both Tails and Shadow got in what would they use for Shadow's background on the website.

Either Green Hill Zone or Windy Hill Zone at a different angle (Some characters have the same exact stage but tilted at a different angle and/or a different part of the stage) with a grey or red filter over it.

Even if Shadow was of course never in Sonic 1 or Sonic Lost World. Which may potentially be a blessing in disguise that a Sonic Forces stage wasn't added because no doubt a Sonic Forces themed stage would work for Shadow's background stage.

 

[Chrono.]

Either Green Hill Zone or Windy Hill Zone at a different angle (Some characters have the same exact stage but tilted at a different angle and/or a different part of the stage) with a grey or red filter over it.

Even if Shadow was of course never in Sonic 1 or Sonic Lost World. Which may potentially be a blessing in disguise that a Sonic Forces stage wasn't added because no doubt a Sonic Forces themed stage would work for Shadow's background stage.

Sunset Heights would be a sick stage honestly.

 

[RineYFD]

Isabelle is the face of AC. a first party character and popular in her own right.

She was kind of inevitable no matter what.

Mmm........... true.
I just thought since Tails and Geno were more requested they would get in first.

My thought is that there will be 5 more stages + the option to switch to a custom/dlc stage page.
Anyway, back to Tails. Anyone else want a Chemical Plant stage with his reveal?

Doubt we're getting anymore stages. Well at with any franchise that already has a stage. Though Chemical Plant would be cool. I'd totally prefer Tropical Resort.

Either Green Hill Zone or Windy Hill Zone at a different angle (Some characters have the same exact stage but tilted at a different angle and/or a different part of the stage) with a grey or red filter over it.

Even if Shadow was of course never in Sonic 1 or Sonic Lost World. Which may potentially be a blessing in disguise that a Sonic Forces stage wasn't added because no doubt a Sonic Forces themed stage would work for Shadow's background stage.

I'm trying not to get myself so hyped up. I really want Tails. But I don't want to get too ahead of myself.

Sunset Heights would be a sick stage honestly.

View attachment 164653

Yeah that'd be cool.

 

[The Snitch Studio]

If we got a chance to get another Sonic stage, I'd love Studiopolis, imagine a remix of the Act 1 Song!

I don't really believe the box theory, I'm more on the Mii Costume & Music theory. Now that Shadow is losing his chances, it's gonna be annoying on how people are going to start complaining about him not being in.

Also, Can Ya Put My Name On Da List, 7 years supporting and believing in Tails!

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Yeah could you add me too while you're at it? Didn't see my name on there.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Vergeben spoke up on the Box theory.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77008096

Tl:Dr
- He says the Gen 7 pokemon is Incineroar
- Doubles down on the 2nd SE rep, but also mentions it's silly to think that Nintendo wouldn't support Smash after it's release, meaning DLC.
- Hasn't gotten confirmation from his sources if the box art is the final roster or not.

I'm doubling down on it now. The Box Theory is real. Ken and Incineroar is what we're getting, and Geno will be our first DLC, shown off before the game comes out. This doesn't mean that Tails or Shadow won't be in the game, bur rather they'll show up as DLC in the future. That's what I honestly think now.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Vergeben spoke up on the Box theory.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77008096

Tl:Dr
- He says the Gen 7 pokemon is Incineroar
- Doubles down on the 2nd SE rep, but also mentions it's silly to think that Nintendo wouldn't support Smash after it's release, meaning DLC.
- Hasn't gotten confirmation from his sources if the box art is the final roster or not.

I'm doubling down on it now. The Box Theory is real. Ken and Incineroar is what we're getting, and Geno will be our first DLC, shown off before the game comes out. This doesn't mean that Tails or Shadow won't be in the game, bur rather they'll show up as DLC in the future. That's what I honestly think now.

Don't bring up the box theory or Vergeben. His "sources" are probably just his luck and his attention whoring attitude.

 

[Exalt4747]

My thought is that there will be 5 more stages + the option to switch to a custom/dlc stage page.
Anyway, back to Tails. Anyone else want a Chemical Plant stage with his reveal?

I'd want that pretty bad. I don't know why, but I love Chemical Plant.

Also, I can go on the list if you all like.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Don't bring up the box theory or Vergeben. His "sources" are probably just his luck and his attention whoring attitude.

I'm sorry, but. I believe in both of them at this point. He's gotta have quite the luck to have gotten everything right so far.

I will bring it up regardless if you want me to or not.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I'm sorry, but. I believe in both of them at this point. He's gotta have quite the luck to have gotten everything right so far.

I will bring it up regardless if you want me to or not.

It's not impossible to have that much luck, and the fact that he didn't 'know' about Chrom, Daisy, The returning cut fighters barring Snake, Richter, K. Rool, or Dark Samus immediately raises more than enough red flags to discard his leaks. Everything he has said are safe bets, from Ridley to Isabelle, if people would just realize how easy those guesses are, then maybe they wouldn't take everything he says as gospel. He's also said questionable things that have yet to receive any confirmation: Incineroar being the Pokemon, Minecraft being represented in some way, Ken, and an extra Square character. Why not just double down on who the square character is if you're so cocky and sure of Incineroar being the new pokemon rep? He's an attention-*****, simple as that. He knows that by not giving names, it will draw more people to his leaks, thus giving him all the attention he could ask for.

 

[Jigglymaster]

It's not impossible to have that much luck, and the fact that he didn't 'know' about Chrom, Daisy, The returning cut fighters barring Snake, Richter, K. Rool, or Dark Samus immediately raises more than enough red flags to discard his leaks. Everything he has said are safe bets, from Ridley to Isabelle, if people would just realize how easy those guesses are, then maybe they wouldn't take everything he says as gospel. He's also said questionable things that have yet to receive any confirmation: Incineroar being the Pokemon, Minecraft being represented in some way, Ken, and an extra Square character. Why not just double down on who the square character is if you're so cocky and sure of Incineroar being the new pokemon rep? He's an attention-*****, simple as that. He knows that by not giving names, it will draw more people to his leaks, thus giving him all the attention he could ask for.

They're easy guesses NOW. When the original rumor by him was posted, I thought it was complete garb.

Ridley was a meme character, Konami had fallen out because of Kojima and there was no way Snake was returning, let alone Simon. But it all happened. That's total BS that they were "easy guesses"

And maybe if you actually read the recent post he made. He DID confirm it was Incineroar. He also doesn't confirm the SE rep because he wants to be absolutely sure and won't say anything until he knows its 100% true because he doesn't want to be grilled for being wrong. He knows a lot of people are watching him.

Maybe he is an attention *****, but it's information is legit. I'm going to have to go against you strongly on this one and side with him.

 

[Zoljinx_]

It's not impossible to have that much luck, and the fact that he didn't 'know' about Chrom, Daisy, The returning cut fighters barring Snake, Richter, K. Rool, or Dark Samus immediately raises more than enough red flags to discard his leaks. Everything he has said are safe bets, from Ridley to Isabelle, if people would just realize how easy those guesses are, then maybe they wouldn't take everything he says as gospel. He's also said questionable things that have yet to receive any confirmation: Incineroar being the Pokemon, Minecraft being represented in some way, Ken, and an extra Square character. Why not just double down on who the square character is if you're so cocky and sure of Incineroar being the new pokemon rep? He's an attention-*****, simple as that. He knows that by not giving names, it will draw more people to his leaks, thus giving him all the attention he could ask for.

first of all, just cause he didn't say anything about something doesn't make him wrong. it could literally be that he was uninformed about it.

secondly, most of what he didn't know were the Echo fighters. barring Ken, he's mentioned nothing of Echo fighters, only new characters. missing K. Rool was big, but even he stated (privately) that he had doubts of the source that claimed no new DK reps, as leaked by loz18.

thirdly, things that have yet to receive confirmation is literally what a leak is until proven, what's your point? just cause it's questionable doesn't make it any more fake or real, it's just left ambiguous until proven true or false.

and lastly, if he was an attention-*****, he'd be talking much more frequently. you know. like loz18.

Could you please at least keep an open mind on the faintest possibility that he's not as horrible as you make him out to be? chalking it all up to "luck" is so narrow-minded, it baffles me that this is what people are agreeing to think about the most accurate leak we currently have.

I don't even care if he's right or wrong anymore, but I'm getting really tired of everybody sticking themselves in an echo chamber of what they want to believe, which apparently is nothing cause everything I've seen come up is 100% discarded by the majority with fallacious reasoning.