I Will Believe In Myself: Miles "Tails" Prower Support Thread

Coricus · Aug 10, 2018

KMDP said:
Coricus , updated the Supporter's List for you.

Coricus

@Aussie the Naturist

@Jaguar360

@Xeno VII

@Swamp Sensei

@SegaNintendoUbisoft

@Cutie Gwen

@lady_sky_skipper

@Smokey21

fogbadge

@KirbCider

@Crosstails20

@Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4

@domriver

@Guybrush20X6

@Kirbeh

RineYFD

@RouffWestie

SonicMario

@Shyy_Guy595

@Strider_123

@Wario Wario Wario

@Smashoperatingbuddy123

@BigShad

@StupendousMike

@Lukingordex

@YoshiandToad

@Morbi

@Wonks

Sean Wheeler

@CaptainAmerica

@Tonydrake

@Lampy

@verysleepywolf

@Mr. Wario

@SchAlternate

@SEGAGameBoy

@TCT~Phantom

@Jetsurge

@MacDaddyNook

@CommanderZaktan

@Eagle

KMDP

@Ashuree

Mastermiine

@MainJPW

@KeybladeSmasher

@~ Valkyrie ~

@Houndstooth

@marcuzoo

PikachuGaming64

Beepity boopity. Still cleaning up my quote of it a bit but I gotcha.

KMDP · Aug 10, 2018

Coricus said:
Beepity boopity. Still cleaning up my quote of it a bit but I gotcha.

Happy to help!

Also, I feel like this is probably the worst time to start recounting supporters.

Considering it's right after the Direct, it's sort of like the gif in your sig.

SonicMario · Aug 10, 2018

Oh, I just realized another possible tiny point in Tails favor. Even if just like the mii costumes it could just be circumstantial. Most of the characters except for ROB have a stage behind them. While some characters have the same stages as others just at a different angle. It might be unfitting of Shadow to get Green Hill or Windy Hill behind him. But Tails was in Sonic Lost World, so Windy Hill being his background would work just fine.

They could use Windy hill or even Green Hill Zone again if they really wanted to for Shadow anyway, since I doubt they'd go the lengths of giving Shadow a stage. But the juxtaposition of the edgy black hedgehog with a likely scowl to show his different personality from Sonic and the colorful green background certainly would be jarring while the more colorful Sonic and Tails would fit just fine.

Again, not enough to say Tails is more likely in any way. But it's another thing just like the Mii costumes that in hindsight should it happen, might be seen as why enough hints were there for the potential speculation upset.

Also note that Sonic's the only 3rd party franchise with two returning stages. (Even if that's kind of circumstantial in itself given Mega Man didn't get a different 3DS stage, and Pac-Maze didn't return as much as people may have wanted to because of the 3DS screen gimmick)

Of course if there is a 3rd Sonic stage coming (Which I kinda doubt) whichever of the two new games may decide which one it is. Forces stage? Shadow. Mania stage? Tails. It'd probably lean towards the Forces + Shadow stage since Sega at the time of development would probably want that pushed a little harder (Even with the mixed reception heh) at the time. But I don't think we're getting another Sonic stage now that we know Windy Hill's back.

Zoljinx_ · Aug 10, 2018

Put me down as a supporter, Tails is my favorite Sonic character, and i would be so dang happy if he was included as a playable character.

SonicMario said:
Oh, I just realized another possible tiny point in Tails favor. Even if just like the mii costumes it could just be circumstantial. Most of the characters except for ROB have a stage behind them. While some characters have the same stages as others just at a different angle. It might be unfitting of Shadow to get Green Hill or Windy Hill behind him. But Tails was in Sonic Lost World, so Windy Hill being his background would work just fine.

They could use Windy hill or even Green Hill Zone again if they really wanted to for Shadow anyway, since I doubt they'd go the lengths of giving Shadow a stage. But the juxtaposition of the edgy black hedgehog with a likely scowl to show his different personality from Sonic and the colorful green background certainly would be jarring while the more colorful Sonic and Tails would fit just fine.

Again, not enough to say Tails is more likely in any way. But it's another thing just like the Mii costumes that in hindsight should it happen, might be seen as why enough hints were there for the potential speculation upset.

Also note that Sonic's the only 3rd party franchise with two returning stages. (Even if that's kind of circumstantial in itself given Mega Man didn't get a different 3DS stage, and Pac-Maze didn't return as much as people may have wanted to because of the 3DS screen gimmick)

Of course if there is a 3rd Sonic stage coming (Which I kinda doubt) whichever of the two new games may decide which one it is. Forces stage? Shadow. Mania stage? Tails. It'd probably lean towards the Forces + Shadow stage since Sega at the time of development would probably want that pushed a little harder (Even with the mixed reception heh) at the time. But I don't think we're getting another Sonic stage now that we know Windy Hill's back.

you make some interesting points here, the most glaring one is that shadow's edgy nature clashes with sonic's current colorful stages. although it may not be a factor considering most people are predicting him as an echo fighter, and will likely not be getting a full fledged trailer like non-echo newcomers. however, lets say Tails does join the battle. Shadow could actually fit into that trailer easily as an announcement for an echo fighter via Simon and Richter's reveal trailer.

i'm not entirely sure we'll get a third Sonic stage, though if they did add one, i wouldn't complain. personally i'd want a sonic mania inspired stage, but a forces stage sounds more likely to me as a means to add some variety to sonic's already colorful stages.

SonicMario · Aug 10, 2018

Zoljinx_ said:
i'm not entirely sure we'll get a third Sonic stage, though if they did add one, i wouldn't complain. personally i'd want a sonic mania inspired stage, but a forces stage sounds more likely to me as a means to add some variety to sonic's already colorful stages.

The stage section of the direct seems to heavily imply that this might be all for the base game unless they create any new stages or add more old ones (There's not many old ones to add left but there are a few that still could if they really wanted to) in between now and release. (Why boast specifically 103 stages if there's even a little bit more by release?) Though certainly DLC will be a thing to add to the stage count, especially if more 3rd parties come in.

But as for Sonic stages in particular. I think they would of already revealed a new Sonic stage if it existed. I think Green Hill and Windy Hill is all we're getting stage-wise. That's already one more stage then all the other 3rd party franchises have in terms of being in the same game. Pac-Man's the only 3rd party franchise in the series to get more then one in Smash Bros. history, and it doesn't look like Pac-Maze is coming back any time soon. And even then that was counting 3DS and Wii U together. Sonic's the first 3rd party franchise to get two in one Smash Bros. game, even if both are returning stages.

pika.thunder25 · Aug 10, 2018

Hi! Please put me down as a Tails supporter! I'm already so ecstatic with the game's roster, but adding him and Dixie for me would be the perfect roster. Tails has always been my favorite Sonic character, and while I think Shadow is all but a guarantee at this point with all this echo stuff, Sonic is a large enough franchise that would earn three reps, and with Knuckles as an assist trophy and Tails's mii costume in 4, our boy Miles is quite possible! I know I at least voted him in the ballot.

And I don't think his appearance in Green Hill Zone deconfirms him; wasn't there that stage in Smash 4 (forgot if it was 3DS or Wii U-- I think it was Dreamland 64?) where Dedede floated in the background, but if you played him in that map he wouldn't be in the background? Just some food for thought.

SonicMario · Aug 10, 2018

I've always felt unless they were major stage hazards in those stages, returning stages from previous games don't count for character deconfirmations. New stages maybe (Poor, poor, Captain Toad...), but not older stages.

The reason characters are kept is to be faithful to how that stage was done in their respective game. And as noted they can remove them if it's really that much of a problem when they're in play.

Sean Wheeler · Aug 11, 2018

SonicMario said:
That reminds me. The big jump in 3rd party content in not just characters but content in general actually has left me more hopeful for Tails to get in even if Shadow gets in the base game as an Echo. Cause there's still possible DLC.

Though I've also felt that if there's any upsets this speculation period on the level of expecting Chrom but instead got Robin / Lucina. Tails being Sonic's echo instead of Shadow and Shadow still being an Assist Trophy is one possibility. The mii costume thing I mentioned already in my last post in this thread plus there are still some Assist Trophies we haven't seen still leave the possibility Shadow's still an AT as we haven't seen Elec Man (Not that I'm saying Elec Man and Shadow are on the same level, there's no way Elec Man becomes playable. While Shadow has been a popular request).

I'm still expecting Shadow to be Sonic's echo, but the possibility of an upset is there.

Well, the third-party content does seem to be supported more in Ultimate. It is looking like there's no rules for who gets in. We might even see non-gaming characters like Goku in the game if we're lucky. Richter has broken the boundary of one fighter per third-party series so Tails is even more likely to get in.

fogbadge · Aug 11, 2018

Sean Wheeler said:
Well, the third-party content does seem to be supported more in Ultimate. It is looking like there's no rules for who gets in. We might even see non-gaming characters like Goku in the game if we're lucky. Richter has broken the boundary of one fighter per third-party series so Tails is even more likely to get in.

id say if were unlucky

Master_Gamer · Aug 11, 2018

I believe that Shadow will definitely be the Echo Fighter of Sonic and the "villain" for the series. But Tails definitely deserves more recognition and definitely deserves to be in the game over Shadow. I'm personally hoping for Shadow, but at the same time I'd rather have Tails over Shadow. Tails has been there since nearly the beginning!

magiciandude · Aug 11, 2018

So I have this idea of how Tails's introduction would be. I'd imagine it starts with Sonic and Shadow squaring off each other and confirms Shadow being an Echo Fighter. Then it looks like Shadow has the upper hand, Tails comes out of now and aids Sonic (insert tagline for Tails here). Think Lucina and Robin's trailer from Smash 4 and the recent Castlevania trailer.

Add my name to the support list please.

PikachuGaming64 · Aug 11, 2018

Tails might be a fourth party character he might be someone in the back of green hill zone but so is knuckles and he is a assit trophy! So far Tails is looking good! No assit trophy news for him and most fighters that got them self’s a mii fighter coustume is getting into smash ultimate!I don’t really care if he is a echo All I want to happen is announcement for him! Also would you add me to the support list please?

Scamper52596 · Aug 12, 2018

I think Tails might actually be somewhat likely, which is something I've never really felt up until now. Many of us including myself are almost all but certain that Shadow is going to get in as an Echo Fighter at this point. While it's possible that the developers could just add Shadow, I'm wondering if the developers would want to stop there. The Sonic franchise has been part of Smash for a decade now, and other Sonic characters including Tails have been requested by the fanbase for a long time. We can see that with Tails and Knuckles getting Mii Fighter costumes in Smash for Wii U, and now with Knuckles upgrading to Assist Trophy status. It's very possible that Shadow and Tails were the top 2 most requested Sonic characters in the Ballot. If Sakurai wanted to add another Sonic character it would make sense to make Shadow an Echo Fighter while adding someone who could be more unique. With how important of a character Tails is to the Sonic franchise it would be pretty lame if both Knuckles and Shadow got upgraded while Tails remains in the background of Green Hill Zone.

Speaking of which, I don't really consider that something against him. It's very possible that they left him in the background of the stage for the Demo purposes while his model gets removed before the game releases, or that he just doesn't show up in the background while being played like King Dedede doesn't in the original Dreamland 64 stage. The only real problem I see with Tails is that SEGA hasn't been giving Tails a lot to do in the most recent 3D Sonic games (not to mention he hasn't been playable aside from Mania), so much of his moveset would have to be based off of older games or made up entirely. Which is probably fine considering most 3rd party characters already utilize their classic moves.

Anyway, I think that if any 3rd party franchise in Smash were to receive a unique second character it would be the Sonic franchise. Smash historically has always favored the secondary characters over the villain/rival characters. Luigi before Bowser, Diddy Kong before K. Rool, Zelda before Ganondorf, Falco before Wolf, Palutena before Dark Pit, etc. If Shadow were to make it in before Tails, that would be the first time the rival made it before the sidekick. Hoping this isn't a trend that gets broken because I would really like to have Tails be playable. Tails has always been my most wanted dream character since probably Melee, so feel free to add me to the supporter list.

RineYFD · Aug 12, 2018

Sean Wheeler said:
Well, the third-party content does seem to be supported more in Ultimate. It is looking like there's no rules for who gets in. We might even see non-gaming characters like Goku in the game if we're lucky. Richter has broken the boundary of one fighter per third-party series so Tails is even more likely to get in.

That is true. Konami has broken the rule now. So Tails or Shadow don't sound too out of the question now. By the way, why is Konami getting the most representation in Smash considering their recent actions? Like three fighters, 3 Assist Trophies and 2 stages. When is Namco getting a second rep since they are helping to develop this game and 3DS/Wii U? That's a bit wrong if you ask me.
#

magiciandude said:
So I have this idea of how Tails's introduction would be. I'd imagine it starts with Sonic and Shadow squaring off each other and confirms Shadow being an Echo Fighter. Then it looks like Shadow has the upper hand, Tails comes out of now and aids Sonic (insert tagline for Tails here). Think Lucina and Robin's trailer from Smash 4 and the recent Castlevania trailer.

Add my name to the support list please.

Wait does that mean Tails is going to kill Shadow if that happened, since Mario, Megaman, Luigi and Dedede have all died off by Ridley, Death and K. Rool during the recent trailers? I mean there is potential for that to happen. If it isn't Amy then Tails does have the most potential of killing someone(joke).

SonicMario said:
Oh, I just realized another possible tiny point in Tails favor. Even if just like the mii costumes it could just be circumstantial. Most of the characters except for ROB have a stage behind them. While some characters have the same stages as others just at a different angle. It might be unfitting of Shadow to get Green Hill or Windy Hill behind him. But Tails was in Sonic Lost World, so Windy Hill being his background would work just fine.

They could use Windy hill or even Green Hill Zone again if they really wanted to for Shadow anyway, since I doubt they'd go the lengths of giving Shadow a stage. But the juxtaposition of the edgy black hedgehog with a likely scowl to show his different personality from Sonic and the colorful green background certainly would be jarring while the more colorful Sonic and Tails would fit just fine.

Again, not enough to say Tails is more likely in any way. But it's another thing just like the Mii costumes that in hindsight should it happen, might be seen as why enough hints were there for the potential speculation upset.

Also note that Sonic's the only 3rd party franchise with two returning stages. (Even if that's kind of circumstantial in itself given Mega Man didn't get a different 3DS stage, and Pac-Maze didn't return as much as people may have wanted to because of the 3DS screen gimmick)

Of course if there is a 3rd Sonic stage coming (Which I kinda doubt) whichever of the two new games may decide which one it is. Forces stage? Shadow. Mania stage? Tails. It'd probably lean towards the Forces + Shadow stage since Sega at the time of development would probably want that pushed a little harder (Even with the mixed reception heh) at the time. But I don't think we're getting another Sonic stage now that we know Windy Hill's back.

Oh yeah, Windy Hill is back.
A bit strange that WH is returning but if Hanenbrow out of all stages can come back so can Windy Hill.
Yeah, I can see Tails getting Windy Hill. It would be very unfitting for Shadow.
Way too colourful for him(since he's so edgy) and he hasn't appeared in Lost World like you said.

Zoljinx_ said:
Put me down as a supporter, Tails is my favorite Sonic character, and i would be so dang happy if he was included as a playable character.

you make some interesting points here, the most glaring one is that shadow's edgy nature clashes with sonic's current colorful stages. although it may not be a factor considering most people are predicting him as an echo fighter, and will likely not be getting a full fledged trailer like non-echo newcomers. however, lets say Tails does join the battle. Shadow could actually fit into that trailer easily as an announcement for an echo fighter via Simon and Richter's reveal trailer.

i'm not entirely sure we'll get a third Sonic stage, though if they did add one, i wouldn't complain. personally i'd want a sonic mania inspired stage, but a forces stage sounds more likely to me as a means to add some variety to sonic's already colorful stages.

I can also see Shadow being revealed alongside Tails in a trailer. They did it in Simon's trailer after all with Richter.
But oh man can you imagine how hype that would be if that were to happen? None of us would see it coming.

PikachuGaming64 · Aug 12, 2018

RineYFD said:
That is true. Konami has broken the rule now. So Tails or Shadow don't sound too out of the question now. By the way, why is Konami getting the most representation in Smash considering their recent actions? Like three fighters, 3 Assist Trophies and 2 stages. When is Namco getting a second rep since they are helping to develop this game and 3DS/Wii U? That's a bit wrong if you ask me.
#

Wait does that mean Tails is going to kill Shadow if that happened, since Mario, Megaman, Luigi and Dedede have all died off by Ridley, Death and K. Rool during the recent trailers? I mean there is potential for that to happen. If it isn't Amy then Tails does have the most potential of killing someone(joke).

Oh yeah, Windy Hill is back.
A bit strange that WH is returning but if Hanenbrow out of all stages can come back so can Windy Hill.
Yeah, I can see Tails getting Windy Hill. It would be very unfitting for Shadow.
Way too colourful for him(since he's so edgy) and he hasn't appeared in Lost World like you said.

I can also see Shadow being revealed alongside Tails in a trailer. They did it in Simon's trailer after all with Richter.
But oh man can you imagine how hype that would be if that were to happen? None of us would see it coming.

I have a idea for a tails trailer first it starts out kinda like the king k krool trailer Sonic sees everyone with there buddies and sidekicks then out of nowhere (insert villan because i have no idea who it should be)Walks up to sonic with a mind controls shadow then it says something like shadow joins the battle but something for shadow then sonic is about to be attacked until a blast comes out of nowhere and it shows tails hand blaster and it says tails joins the battle but a quote for tails then he tails gets out the boxing glove machine and knocks out the villan!Then it shows tails and shadows ability (Shadow is Sonics echo fighter).(Also they show there ability’s with gameplay btw)

SonicMario · Aug 12, 2018

RineYFD said:
Oh yeah, Windy Hill is back.
A bit strange that WH is returning but if Hanenbrow out of all stages can come back so can Windy Hill.
Yeah, I can see Tails getting Windy Hill. It would be very unfitting for Shadow.
Way too colourful for him(since he's so edgy) and he hasn't appeared in Lost World like you said.

I can also see Shadow being revealed alongside Tails in a trailer. They did it in Simon's trailer after all with Richter.
But oh man can you imagine how hype that would be if that were to happen? None of us would see it coming.

Granted for the stage background they could just give Shadow no stage just like ROB. Or even just put a red or grey filter over Green Hill or Windy Hill. But I don't think we're getting a Sonic Forces or a Sonic Adventure 2 stage which would be the likely sources if they were to give a stage meant to be Shadow's home stage.

Man, if they pulled something like that K. Rool trailer but with Sidekicks/Duos (Cuts to Mario and Luigi, Fox and Falco, Donkey Kong and Diddy and then it cut immediately to a CGI cutscene of Sonic. That would be SOOOOO sweet and immediately get me jumping up and down. Though that only happens if Tails is at least a semi-clone. As echoes don't get that treatment.

Though Tails and Shadow sharing a trailer is a possibility. But either way it would mean one of the two is not classified as an echo. Hell even if Tails is the echo, and Shadow is the Semi-Clone. That would kind of irritate me, but I would be willing to take it at this point. But I think if one's an echo, and one's a semi-clone. Shadow's more likelier to be the echo out of the two.

PikachuGaming64 · Aug 12, 2018

SonicMario said:
Granted for the stage background they could just give Shadow no stage just like ROB. Or even just put a red or grey filter over Green Hill or Windy Hill. But I don't think we're getting a Sonic Forces or a Sonic Adventure 2 stage which would be the likely sources if they were to give a stage meant to be Shadow's home stage.

Man, if they pulled something like that K. Rool trailer but with Sidekicks/Duos (Cuts to Mario and Luigi, Fox and Falco, Donkey Kong and Diddy and then it cut immediately to a CGI cutscene of Sonic. That would be SOOOOO sweet and immediately get me jumping up and down. Though that only happens if Tails is at least a semi-clone. As echoes don't get that treatment.

Though Tails and Shadow sharing a trailer is a possibility. But either way it would mean one of the two is not classified as an echo. Hell even if Tails is the echo, and Shadow is the Semi-Clone. That would kind of irritate me, but I would be willing to take it at this point. But I think if one's an echo, and one's a semi-clone. Shadow's more likelier to be the echo out of the two.

Uh if you were referring to my post i would understand but if you weren’t uh I belive ya kinda stole that idea from me(Look at the post above yours if you didn’t mean to I understand)

SonicMario · Aug 12, 2018

PikachuGaming64 said:
Uh if you were referring to my post i would understand but if you weren’t uh I belive ya kinda stole that idea from me(Look at the post above yours if you didn’t mean to I understand)

Yeah didn't mean to. Sorry about that ^^'

Anyway, I want to talk a bit about content

What we know so far:
1 Character (Sonic of course)
2 Stages (Green Hill from Brawl, Windy Hill from Smash 4. And we're probably not getting a 3rd stage)
1 Assist Trophy (Knuckles)
We only know 2 of the 20 songs that will be in the game (Green Hill Zone and the Angel Island Zone remix from Brawl)

While I'm not sure Sonic will get as much as Castlevania will immediately get. Let's take a look at what if Sonic got some of what Castlevania brings

Castlevania got an Echo fighter, if Sonic gets one it's most certainly either Tails or Shadow.
Castlevania got a boss, Dr. Eggman in one of his big machines would be perfect in this role. Maybe even one of the levels in this upcoming Spirits mode could be Sonic related and includes Badniks and the return of the Eggrobos in HD when they were in Smash Run.

On a slight change of subject that I must ask is regarding the Mii costumes in Smash 4.
We got two for Sonic in the last wave. Tails a Gunner, and Knuckles a Brawler
With Ultimate's choices for both newcomers and assist trophies, many have been acknowledged further when they were mii costumes. Though with Shadow being the most expected to be Sonic's echo. Why didn't Shadow get a Mii costume when Tails did? Shadow would of arguably made more sense even given he used guns in his game. Yet they picked Tails who got a cartoon laser gun he never used (I do kinda wished they used the arm cannon from Sonic Battle instead, but hey. I was excited for the costume nonetheless. I started using Mii Gunner alot as soon as the Tails costume dropped). Granted, I would of been pissed if say they only had Shadow and Knuckles and no Tails. (3rd Parties did get multiple of one type so it's not like they had to choose one or the other. Note Proto Man and the also the different Mega Mans like X or Megaman.exe. And even if it WAS a one or the other kind of choice, wouldn't it be kind of telling that Tails was picked?).

I'm pretty certain that the Top 3 Sonic characters must of have been Shadow, Tails, or Knuckles in no particular order. Knuckles' role is already decided with the assist trophy. Tails and Shadow are still alive. So that just adds to the question of why didn't Shadow get a Mii costume but Tails did?. Only the Belmonts and the Metroid newcomers are the ones who didn't have a Mii costume and become playable so far. And the Belmonts couldn't for obvious reasons since Konami wasn't involved with the game so counting those out, only our Metroid newcomers didn't get Mii costumes. And I assume that's mainly because they already got solid roles what with the Pyrosphere Stage Hazard (And Ridley was always kind of on Sakurai's mind before the ballot, just didn't have the minset to make him playable until Ultimate) and the Dark Samus colored alt for regular Samus. Plus for Dark Samus in particular, the bulk of the Metroid representation referred to Other M. Which part of the controversy of Other M is that it tried to practically scrub the Prime series from canon. I could also mention the Dark Samus assist trophy as a reason she didn't get a mii costume but even that's moot because we still got Ashley and Takamaru costumes.

Don't forget there's some characters that were Mii costumes that are also still in the running and have at least some chance at getting playable in Ultimate. There was Majora's Mask for potentially Skull Kid, Isabelle, Heihachi, Lloyd, and Geno. Now obviously that didn't quite work for every potential newcomer that got a costume. Zero, Toad, Ashley, Takamaru, and Knuckles. But they all either got upgraded to assist trophy, kept their assist trophy role if they were already one, and Toad in particular is no longer just a meat shield. I think we have enough evidence to say that at least some mii costumes were certainly influenced by the ballot even if they didn't become playable.

I'm still in the mindset that Shadow is going to be Sonic's echo fighter, but if Tails should happen instead. I think it will all circle back to the question I've asked twice in this post and about to say a 3rd time: Why didn't Shadow get a Mii costume, but Tails did?

PikachuGaming64 · Aug 12, 2018

SonicMario said:
Yeah didn't mean to. Sorry about that ^^'

Anyway, I want to talk a bit about content

What we know so far:
1 Character (Sonic of course)
2 Stages (Green Hill from Brawl, Windy Hill from Smash 4. And we're probably not getting a 3rd stage)
1 Assist Trophy (Knuckles)
We only know 2 of the 20 songs that will be in the game (Green Hill Zone and the Angel Island Zone remix from Brawl)

While I'm not sure Sonic will get as much as Castlevania will immediately get. Let's take a look at what if Sonic got some of what Castlevania brings

Castlevania got an Echo fighter, if Sonic gets one it's most certainly either Tails or Shadow.
Castlevania got a boss, Dr. Eggman in one of his big machines would be perfect in this role. Maybe even one of the levels in this upcoming Spirits mode could be Sonic related and includes Badniks and the return of the Eggrobos in HD when they were in Smash Run.

On a slight change of subject that I must ask is regarding the Mii costumes in Smash 4.
We got two for Sonic in the last wave. Tails a Gunner, and Knuckles a Brawler
With Ultimate's choices for both newcomers and assist trophies, many have been acknowledged further when they were mii costumes. Though with Shadow being the most expected to be Sonic's echo. Why didn't Shadow get a Mii costume when Tails did? Shadow would of arguably made more sense even given he used guns in his game. Yet they picked Tails who got a cartoon laser gun he never used (I do kinda wished they used the arm cannon from Sonic Battle instead, but hey. I was excited for the costume nonetheless. I started using Mii Gunner alot as soon as the Tails costume dropped). Granted, I would of been pissed if say they only had Shadow and Knuckles and no Tails. (3rd Parties did get multiple of one type so it's not like they had to choose one or the other. Note Proto Man and the also the different Mega Mans like X or Megaman.exe. And even if it WAS a one or the other kind of choice, wouldn't it be kind of telling that Tails was picked?).

I'm pretty certain that the Top 3 Sonic characters must of have been Shadow, Tails, or Knuckles in no particular order. Knuckles' role is already decided with the assist trophy. Tails and Shadow are still alive. So that just adds to the question of why didn't Shadow get a Mii costume but Tails did?. Only the Belmonts and the Metroid newcomers are the ones who didn't have a Mii costume and become playable so far. And the Belmonts couldn't for obvious reasons since Konami wasn't involved with the game so counting those out, only our Metroid newcomers didn't get Mii costumes. And I assume that's mainly because they already got solid roles what with the Pyrosphere Stage Hazard (And Ridley was always kind of on Sakurai's mind before the ballot, just didn't have the minset to make him playable until Ultimate) and the Dark Samus colored alt for regular Samus. Plus for Dark Samus in particular, the bulk of the Metroid representation referred to Other M. Which part of the controversy of Other M is that it tried to practically scrub the Prime series from canon. I could also mention the Dark Samus assist trophy as a reason she didn't get a mii costume but even that's moot because we still got Ashley and Takamaru costumes.

Don't forget there's some characters that were Mii costumes that are also still in the running and have at least some chance at getting playable in Ultimate. There was Majora's Mask for potentially Skull Kid, Isabelle, Heihachi, Lloyd, and Geno. Now obviously that didn't quite work for every potential newcomer that got a costume. Zero, Toad, Ashley, Takamaru, and Knuckles. But they all either got upgraded to assist trophy, kept their assist trophy role if they were already one, and Toad in particular is no longer just a meat shield. I think we have enough evidence to say that at least some mii costumes were certainly influenced by the ballot even if they didn't become playable.

I'm still in the mindset that Shadow is going to be Sonic's echo fighter, but if Tails should happen instead. I think it will all circle back to the question I've asked twice in this post and about to say a 3rd time: Why didn't Shadow get a Mii costume, but Tails did?

It’s okay

Dixie Kong · Aug 13, 2018

I support Tails!

RineYFD · Aug 13, 2018

PikachuGaming64 said:
I have a idea for a tails trailer first it starts out kinda like the king k krool trailer Sonic sees everyone with there buddies and sidekicks then out of nowhere (insert villan because i have no idea who it should be)Walks up to sonic with a mind controls shadow then it says something like shadow joins the battle but something for shadow then sonic is about to be attacked until a blast comes out of nowhere and it shows tails hand blaster and it says tails joins the battle but a quote for tails then he tails gets out the boxing glove machine and knocks out the villan!Then it shows tails and shadows ability (Shadow is Sonics echo fighter).(Also they show there ability’s with gameplay btw)

Cool idea for a trailer. Though it was a bit hard to read. It's a bit cluttered and there's no capitals or anything to make it hard to read. No offence to you though. It's not like I'm an English teacher or anything like that anyways.

SonicMario said:
Yeah didn't mean to. Sorry about that ^^'

Anyway, I want to talk a bit about content

What we know so far:
1 Character (Sonic of course)
2 Stages (Green Hill from Brawl, Windy Hill from Smash 4. And we're probably not getting a 3rd stage)
1 Assist Trophy (Knuckles)
We only know 2 of the 20 songs that will be in the game (Green Hill Zone and the Angel Island Zone remix from Brawl)

While I'm not sure Sonic will get as much as Castlevania will immediately get. Let's take a look at what if Sonic got some of what Castlevania brings

Castlevania got an Echo fighter, if Sonic gets one it's most certainly either Tails or Shadow.
Castlevania got a boss, Dr. Eggman in one of his big machines would be perfect in this role. Maybe even one of the levels in this upcoming Spirits mode could be Sonic related and includes Badniks and the return of the Eggrobos in HD when they were in Smash Run.

On a slight change of subject that I must ask is regarding the Mii costumes in Smash 4.
We got two for Sonic in the last wave. Tails a Gunner, and Knuckles a Brawler
With Ultimate's choices for both newcomers and assist trophies, many have been acknowledged further when they were mii costumes. Though with Shadow being the most expected to be Sonic's echo. Why didn't Shadow get a Mii costume when Tails did? Shadow would of arguably made more sense even given he used guns in his game. Yet they picked Tails who got a cartoon laser gun he never used (I do kinda wished they used the arm cannon from Sonic Battle instead, but hey. I was excited for the costume nonetheless. I started using Mii Gunner alot as soon as the Tails costume dropped). Granted, I would of been pissed if say they only had Shadow and Knuckles and no Tails. (3rd Parties did get multiple of one type so it's not like they had to choose one or the other. Note Proto Man and the also the different Mega Mans like X or Megaman.exe. And even if it WAS a one or the other kind of choice, wouldn't it be kind of telling that Tails was picked?).

I'm pretty certain that the Top 3 Sonic characters must of have been Shadow, Tails, or Knuckles in no particular order. Knuckles' role is already decided with the assist trophy. Tails and Shadow are still alive. So that just adds to the question of why didn't Shadow get a Mii costume but Tails did?. Only the Belmonts and the Metroid newcomers are the ones who didn't have a Mii costume and become playable so far. And the Belmonts couldn't for obvious reasons since Konami wasn't involved with the game so counting those out, only our Metroid newcomers didn't get Mii costumes. And I assume that's mainly because they already got solid roles what with the Pyrosphere Stage Hazard (And Ridley was always kind of on Sakurai's mind before the ballot, just didn't have the minset to make him playable until Ultimate) and the Dark Samus colored alt for regular Samus. Plus for Dark Samus in particular, the bulk of the Metroid representation referred to Other M. Which part of the controversy of Other M is that it tried to practically scrub the Prime series from canon. I could also mention the Dark Samus assist trophy as a reason she didn't get a mii costume but even that's moot because we still got Ashley and Takamaru costumes.

Don't forget there's some characters that were Mii costumes that are also still in the running and have at least some chance at getting playable in Ultimate. There was Majora's Mask for potentially Skull Kid, Isabelle, Heihachi, Lloyd, and Geno. Now obviously that didn't quite work for every potential newcomer that got a costume. Zero, Toad, Ashley, Takamaru, and Knuckles. But they all either got upgraded to assist trophy, kept their assist trophy role if they were already one, and Toad in particular is no longer just a meat shield. I think we have enough evidence to say that at least some mii costumes were certainly influenced by the ballot even if they didn't become playable.

I'm still in the mindset that Shadow is going to be Sonic's echo fighter, but if Tails should happen instead. I think it will all circle back to the question I've asked twice in this post and about to say a 3rd time: Why didn't Shadow get a Mii costume, but Tails did?

Tails echo doesn't sound too out of the question now ever since Chrom got revealed as an echo for Roy(I'm honestly surprised he wasn't Ike's echo) and he looks way more different compared to Roy more then the other Echo Fighters are compared to their original fighters(I don't know why Chrom is an Echo Fighter but Young Link and Dr Mario aren't. It's literary the same thing with them. I don't know why it doesn't apply to Chrom). Honestly just add a flight mechanic and an arm cannon to Sonic and you got yourself an Echo Fighter.
Of course, if Tails were to get into Smash I'd want him to be a more original fighter then a modified Sonic skin but it would be good enough I guess.
I'd just be thankful we even got him in the game at all really.
Also, I agree with the Ballot at least influencing the roles of the characters who got Mii costumes. Proto Man is in Megaman's Final Smash along with Bass, Toad is no longer just Peach's UNwilling shield(What the hell Peach?), Knuckles is an Assist Trophy, Rathalos is a boss AND Assist Trophy(Monster Hunter Mii Costumes), and of course the Inklings, K. Rool, and Chrom are all fighters now.
The Ballot must've at least influenced them to more important roles.
So who knows Tails may get something too.

PikachuGaming64 · Aug 13, 2018

Yeah not best at grammar sorry to all

xelasseh · Aug 13, 2018

I actually thought of a potential joint reveal trailer for Tails and Shadow as well, I posted it in the direct a trailer thread but i'll quote it over here. The thought of this reveal got me excited, I really hope Tails makes it in this time!

xelasseh said:
I always love thinking of trailer reveal scenarios, so I thought of one that I ended up really liking.

Shadow echo and Tails newcomer reveal concept:

Fade into Green Hill Zone of a flicky going about, suddenly, shaking can be felt through the ground, the flicky then notices a vehicle coming at a high speed, it’s Captain Falcon speeding through Green Hill Zone in his Blue Falcon, he then flips the nitro to hit the famous loop.

After successfully clearing the loop, Falcon quietly praises himself, a mysterious silhouette then jumps on Falcon’s Blue Falcon, he notices the figure and suddenly the silhouette chops the windshield, Falcon jumps out of his vehicle before it crashes. A warping figure takes a shot at Falcon, followed by many other quick shots.

Falcon, now on the ground, has a dark hedgehog walk up slowly to him, as he walks to Falcon, I Am All of Me starts playing, pan from his skate shoes to his face, Shadow lets out a “hmph”-like chuckle and poses like he does before he kills eggman, black doom etc., then a splash screen, “Shadow Causes Chaos!”, hits Falcon across Green Hill with smoke trails trailing him and falling off-stage. Cuts to a montage of gameplay, but doesn’t show Sonic. After a little montage, Sonic crashes Shadow’s fun, they fight and at one point Shadow gains the upper hand and launches Sonic off stage, with the screen fading to black.

You then hear a hand grab (sound effect of Sonic grabbing Tails’ hands), fade back, with a rising sound effect of a helicopter sound, into Sonic opening his eyes looking up and smirking, camera pans back to Shadow a little surprised, then crossing his arms with a frowning smirk. Sonic lands grazing his nose while his partner, Tails, slowly lands and pulls out his Energy Ball cannon (from Sonic Battle) followed with a splash screen, “Tails Tinkers Away! [(Flys High!) i couldn't think of a witty splash screen], with This Way Out (Prison Lane) playing when the splash screen displays. Tails shoots an energy balls, and as it gets closer to the screen, the screen fades white and cuts to a gameplay montage. Ends with Sonic and Tails fist bumping, and then a huge shadow in the shape of the Death Egg Robot swallows the landscape with a voice coming from a speaker saying, “Ha Ha Ha Ha, if it isn’t Sonic!”, teasing Eggman will be a boss character.

After seeing Simon and Richter's reveal trailer, it gave me multitudes of ideas in terms of not just who to show in trailers but, how.
I expect Shadow to be an echo fighter, but I have little faith in Tails, who knows though. :^)

volbound1700 · Aug 13, 2018

Add me to the list. I would rather have Tails over any of the other Sonic reps (especially Shadow). At the very least, I hope Tails and Knuckles come back as Mii costumes. The Miis with the right move sets felt like them.

Jigglymaster · Aug 14, 2018

Longtime Tails supporter here. Ever since Sonic got announced for Brawl almost 11 years ago, I've wanted Tails. Brawl did not bring us Tails, nor did Smash 4, nor did DLC. Heck, even Sonic's own franchise has often butchered Tails in being a playable character (Unleashed, Colors, Generations, Lost World, Forces). I think it's about time they finally give him a chance in Smash.

For a while I thought the character was impossible and not even worth trying to get, since it'd only disappoint me in the end. I moved onto other favorite characters of mine who had a better chance during Smash 4's development, like Delphox... which we ended up getting Greninja instead.... so close....

But now that we've learned that the Ballot for Bayonetta was fake and that it was meant for Ultimate instead, my hopes for Tails are returning. I'm sure it's been discussed a lot in this thread already what with a lot of mii costumes being turned into either assist trophies or playable characters, but the fact that we haven't seen Tails at all yet makes me think we really are going to get him as a playable character alongside a Shadow Echo Fighter. It just makes too much sense?

I just want this so bad. This is the one character I've wanted for 11 years now and I haven't really had a character to call my own (which is why I main the miis in smash 4 lol). This is easily the best chance he's had in forever.

------------------------------------------
Here's my ideas on how the direct will go. They'll start of with Sonic and another smash character vs Dr. Eggman in his original ball chain mech from the first game. Dr. Eggman will kill the other smash character and then send Sonic flying as well. Sonic will shut his eyes and then find out that he's been saved by Tails in the Tornado II. Tails is revealed and he gets his trailer. Follow that by a defeated Eggman, he then sends out Shadow to attack, Shadow confirmed as an echo.

Later on they explain Tails and Shadow, and then they explain Dr. Eggman as a boss character and go on to talk about the new hidden mode which he will be in.

Also, watch this all take place on October 10th, the day that Sonic was announced for Brawl 11 years ago. Makes sense too since we've been getting smash directs two months apart, as for the days, one was on the 8th and the other on the 12th. The 10th is a Wednesday as well so it'd make perfect sense to throw on on that day.

--------------------

I think Shadow is a 95% guarantee to be in the game, with Tails being 80%. If Tails gets shown before Shadow, then he's 100% in. However, if they show Shadow first, then Tails is done for. That's one positive for us I think, is that they HAVEN'T shown Shadow yet. We need to believe in our boy. I can feel it in my bones that this time it's for real.

-------------------

EDIT: One last thing! The way Sakurai gave us the total number of stages, as well as with how the website fills up the stage selection perfectly, I REALLY think there are no more stages for this game. At least not until DLC. Which, I think supports new characters that don't need stages to go alongside them.... like Tails.

SonicMario · Aug 14, 2018

Jigglymaster said:
EDIT: One last thing! The way Sakurai gave us the total number of stages, as well as with how the website fills up the stage selection perfectly, I REALLY think there are no more stages for this game. At least not until DLC. Which, I think supports new characters that don't need stages to go alongside them.... like Tails.

View attachment 157848

Tails appeared in Sonic Lost World. Windy Hill returned despite the chance of Sega wanting to promote Sonic Forces with a new stage which would of fit for Shadow's stage. Just sayin'!

Heh mostly kidding but yeah I don't think there will be a 3rd Sonic stage. We would of already seen it I feel and Windy Hill would not have returned.

Also regarding your pessimism that Tails isn't in if Shadow is revealed first.. What if Tails is a DLC candidate? This game is already chock full of 3rd party content, and the DLC may very well add more on top of that especially if Shadow's just an echo. A DLC Tails might explain if indeed Knuckles is upgraded to an Assist, Shadow is an echo, but Tails keeps the same role he had in Smash 4 (Background cameo + Mii costume). Though I would rather not worry about the possibility they will actually leave him in the dust unlike Shadow and Knuckles throughout the DLC period.

I mentioned earlier that Tails could also potentially be Sonic's echo instead. Not as likely to be, but if Shadow doesn't happen it's a possibility.

Jigglymaster · Aug 14, 2018

SonicMario said:
Also regarding your pessimism that Tails isn't in if Shadow is revealed first.. What if Tails is a DLC candidate? This game is already chock full of 3rd party content, and the DLC may very well add more on top of that especially if Shadow's just an echo. A DLC Tails might explain if indeed Knuckles is upgraded to an Assist, Shadow is an echo, but Tails keeps the same role he had in Smash 4 (Background cameo + Mii costume). Though I would rather not worry about the possibility they will actually leave him in the dust unlike Shadow and Knuckles throughout the DLC period.

I mentioned earlier that Tails could also potentially be Sonic's echo instead. Not as likely to be, but if Shadow doesn't happen it's a possibility.

Well, I'd rather not worry about DLC right now, as that's a battle for another day. His chances of being in the base game are dead if Shadow gets shown off first in a non CGI trailer like Chrom/Dark Samus. As for echo fighter Tails, I can't see it. He has too much going on that's unique to him. That being said, I really don't see any issue with BOTH Tails and Shadow getting in the game at the same time. They're both very popular and both have their own reasons for being in the game. Since Shadow is probably going to just be an echo, he's not really in the way of Tails being in the game. The ONLY thing I could see is people saying that 3 characters is too much for a 3rd party franchise. Which I disagree, Konami got 3 and two of them are completely new with Castlevania. Sonic has been here since Brawl, I think him having 3 characters in total is not asking for much.

Sean Wheeler · Aug 15, 2018

I want Shadow to remain as an Assist Trophy and Tails to be Sonic's Echo with the Up Special changed to his Tails Flight, Side Special being the Dummy Ring Bombs and the Final Smash being the Tornado Plane. His up throw can be changed to spinning his tails since he doesn't have hedgehog quills.

Jigglymaster · Aug 15, 2018

Can't really contain my potential hype for Tails. So I drew this today!

Mastermiine · Aug 15, 2018

What do you guys think of Tails being in the Mech from SA2 and Eggman being an echo?

Jigglymaster said:
Well, I'd rather not worry about DLC right now, as that's a battle for another day. His chances of being in the base game are dead if Shadow gets shown off first in a non CGI trailer like Chrom/Dark Samus. As for echo fighter Tails, I can't see it. He has too much going on that's unique to him. That being said, I really don't see any issue with BOTH Tails and Shadow getting in the game at the same time. They're both very popular and both have their own reasons for being in the game. Since Shadow is probably going to just be an echo, he's not really in the way of Tails being in the game. The ONLY thing I could see is people saying that 3 characters is too much for a 3rd party franchise. Which I disagree, Konami got 3 and two of them are completely new with Castlevania. Sonic has been here since Brawl, I think him having 3 characters in total is not asking for much.

Yeah, I am all for more sonic reps. I feel Sonic, Tails, Shadow, and Silver as characters, knuckles as an AT and Eggman as a story mode boss would be so great for fans of the sonic series. I feel that wont be to much but its a shame they wont get in. Sometimes I wish nintendo owned Sonic so we can have more sonic characters.

Sean Wheeler said:
I want Shadow to remain as an Assist Trophy and Tails to be Sonic's Echo with the Up Special changed to his Tails Flight, Side Special being the Dummy Ring Bombs and the Final Smash being the Tornado Plane. His up throw can be changed to spinning his tails since he doesn't have hedgehog quills.

I feel it would do tails justice to have his own move set. With his tails and flight he could have such a great movest on his own.

While it would be amazing if shadow was his own fighter it makes more sense for him to be an echo.

Jigglymaster said:
Can't really contain my potential hype for Tails. So I drew this today!
View attachment 157922

Looks good! I hope we get more then just 2 sonic characters. Sonic, Shadow, Tails, and Silver are so iconic to sonic. Add Knuckles to an AT and Eggman as a boss and you have great representation of the sonic series.

Scamper52596 · Aug 15, 2018

Tails being in the mech might work as a Final Smash. Maybe he could shoot that big laser out of it similarly to Samus's Final Smash.

SonicMario · Aug 15, 2018

Mastermiine said:
Looks good! I hope we get more then just 2 sonic characters. Sonic, Shadow, Tails, and Silver are so iconic to sonic. Add Knuckles to an AT and Eggman as a boss and you have great representation of the sonic series.

Not to shut down a big want of yours. I don't think we need a playable Silver. There's just too much baggage with his debut being Sonic 06.

Mastermiine · Aug 15, 2018

SonicMario said:
Not to shut down a big want of yours. I don't think we need a playable Silver. There's just too much baggage with his debut being Sonic 06.

But that was 12 years ago. I feel like the Silver Hate has died down so much. Plus his telekinesis would add so much variety to the sonic character pool.

SonicMario · Aug 15, 2018

Mastermiine said:
But that was 12 years ago. I feel like the Silver Hate has died down so much. Plus his telekinesis would add so much variety to the sonic character pool.

Even if it has died down, it'd be essentially brought back with an inclusion in Smash since he would essentially be a representative of Sonic 06. Shadow would be controversial enough even as just a echo fighter, but at least he has Sonic Adventure 2 and general popularity in the Sonic fanbase on his side. Besides obviously Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow being more popular Smash suggestions. Amy, Blaze, Eggman, and Metal Sonic are probably all ahead of Silver as well.

And it's not like we don't have any characters in Smash with telekinesis. There's Mewtwo, Ness, and Lucas.

Jigglymaster · Aug 15, 2018

I'm gonna have to agree. Anything beyond Tails and Shadow is nothing but a pipe dream. Shadow appeals to the modern fans, Tails appeals to the classic fans. The fact that Knuckles got in as an assist and he's the 4th most popular character in the series, I see nobody else having a chance of making it in as a playable character. The ONLY other character you could POSSIBLY consider is Dr. Eggman, but he seems way more likely as a Boss.

PikachuGaming64 · Aug 15, 2018

Scamper52596 said:
Tails being in the mech might work as a Final Smash. Maybe he could shoot that big laser out of it similarly to Samus's Final Smash.

I think tails shooting it in the tornado X would fit him more for a final smash

Mastermiine · Aug 15, 2018

SonicMario said:
Even if it has died down, it'd be essentially brought back with an inclusion in Smash since he would essentially be a representative of Sonic 06. Shadow would be controversial enough even as just a echo fighter, but at least he has Sonic Adventure 2 and general popularity in the Sonic fanbase on his side. Besides obviously Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow being more popular Smash suggestions. Amy, Blaze, Eggman, and Metal Sonic are probably all ahead of Silver as well.

And it's not like we don't have any characters in Smash with telekinesis. There's Mewtwo, Ness, and Lucas.

Do you think Shadow will be controversial? Sure, Silver will be a controversial choice as a 4th Sonic rep but there has been lots of love and support for him on other forms as well, yeah he is edgy and almost a meme but there is a huge request for people who really really want him, arguably more than tails. I am not saying I don't want tails in smash I really do. Eggman and Metal Sonic (especially metal sonic) may be pushed to a boss battle for now. I do want Eggman as a character, but I rather sacrifice him as a boss and get an extra sonic hero to add more representation. Who knows, that may get him in the next game.

As for Amy & Blaze > over Silver I am not sure on that one. I do believe Silver is more popular than these two but I haven't done any research on that one and I will have to look into popularity polls.

As for the 06 representation, I feel that won't stop the development team if they wanted to add him in.

Jigglymaster said:
I'm gonna have to agree. Anything beyond Tails and Shadow is nothing but a pipe dream. Shadow appeals to the modern fans, Tails appeals to the classic fans. The fact that Knuckles got in as an assist and he's the 4th most popular character in the series, I see nobody else having a chance of making it in as a playable character. The ONLY other character you could POSSIBLY consider is Dr. Eggman, but he seems way more likely as a Boss.

Yeah, Tails and Shadow only seem like the only likely candidate at this point with Shadow having an edge over tails since shadow would be an echo and tails being a new fighter. If we got Sonic, Shadow, and Tails that would be awesome and 3 representations for sonic would be awesome, but that is reaching at this point.

PikachuGaming64 said:
I think tails shooting it in the tornado X would fit him more for a final smash

And Sonic could stand on top of the tornado also! Just would be a fun nod.

SonicMario · Aug 15, 2018

Mastermiine said:
Do you think Shadow will be controversial?

Yes, absolutely.

Shadow is both controversial in the Sonic fanbase and out of it. He's still super popular regardless, but if he gets in Smash I'd expect just as much disgust and "Ow the Edge" memes being spread as responses to it as there would be Sonic fans that would actually be happy to see Shadow. A 2nd Sonic rep in itself is kind of controversial on it's own (Though at this point, probably not as much as yet another Fire Emblem character. Though I think Chrom has generally got a warm reception since he got enough punishment last game. Hell I smiled for Chrom even though I'm no Fire Emblem fan and knowing it's yet another character based around mostly Marth's moveset), but generally more people would accept Tails, Knuckles, and Eggman simply for having been in the series since nearly the beginning.

Hell, it might even be controversial among Shadow fans since not all would be satisfied if he's just an Echo. Because those fans would want him to have his guns from the Shadow game and/or all Chaos powers. In which being an echo would make him nearly the same as Sonic with at most being given Mewtwo's teleport or his Final Smash being a Chaos power. Just look back at the Shadow thread at the person who actually did a bet to themselves that he'd drink SEVEN CUPS OF MUSTARD WATER on video if Shadow is either an echo fighter, an Assist Trophy again, or not playable in the base game, that person is dead set that Shadow MUST be his own character. Not even Richter's inclusion convinced him of that.

I don't even think Shadow being playable even as an echo fighter is guaranteed at least base-game wise. Just a likely possibility if there is one, but I wouldn't say he's a shoe-in just because they added Richter. It could just as easily be that he gets Brawl-to-Smash-4 Isaac'd (As in Assist Trophy disappeared and not promoted to playable) at least for the base game and if there's Echo Fighter DLC THAT would be when Shadow appears. Maybe he's even packaged with a potential DLC Semi-Clone Tails. But who knows.

Sean Wheeler · Aug 15, 2018

Mastermiine said:
What do you guys think of Tails being in the Mech from SA2 and Eggman being an echo?

That wouldn't make any sense. Eggman was always in some type of vehicle and Tails started out playing like Sonic. Eggman would have to be in a mech and Tails would work better as the Echo of Sonic. Tails was only in a mech for Sonic Adventure 2 because Eggman needed a rival.

Mastermiine · Aug 15, 2018

Sean Wheeler said:
That wouldn't make any sense. Eggman was always in some type of vehicle and Tails started out playing like Sonic. Eggman would have to be in a mech and Tails would work better as the Echo of Sonic. Tails was only in a mech for Sonic Adventure 2 because Eggman needed a rival.

But tails as an echo would hurt tails so much more. Tails doesn't really do homing attacks., he has flight, and all of sonic's kicks and punches would be strange to see coming from tails. Plus tails is way slower then sonic.

Shadow on the other hand is a hedgehog just like sonic so he can have the same hight and weight and match sonics speed.

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