I Will Believe In Myself: Miles "Tails" Prower Support Thread

[volbound1700]

Tails just makes sense for Sonic. He is the Luigi of the Sonic universe while Shadow is more like the Wario of the Sonic Universe. You see how quickly Luigi got in Smash compared to Wario.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Tails just makes sense for Sonic. He is the Luigi of the Sonic universe while Shadow is more like the Wario of the Sonic Universe. You see how quickly Luigi got in Smash compared to Wario.

Only issue is that Dr. Eggman may get in his way, since he was in the first Sonic game. No Tails yet there, unlike Luigi being in Super/Mario Bros.

The ideal case scenario is that he should get in first, since Eggman would need more work for a moveset.

 

[volbound1700]

Only issue is that Dr. Eggman may get in his way, since he was in the first Sonic game. No Tails yet there, unlike Luigi being in Super/Mario Bros.

The ideal case scenario is that he should get in first, since Eggman would need more work for a moveset.

In most instances, the side-kicks are getting in before the main villain.

Luigi
Diddy Kong
Falco
Zelda (Ganondorf was last minute add to melee while Zelda was planned all along)
Dark Pit/Palutena

 

[SonicMario]

So talk around the "Leak" block is that Ken is being implied to be in Smash as Ryu's echo from Vergeben. There were some musings that Akuma could be the echo but if this is true this is a character's best friend getting in. And I'm not sure Ken was exactly a strong ballot suggestion. This may be a case of Sakurai and/or Capcom wanting the original echo fighter in. Still, that's another pair of characters that could be considered a friendly duo in Smash (Mario and Luigi, Donkey Kong and Diddy, Link and Zelda, Fox and Falco, Pokemon Trainer and his Pokemon, Peach and Daisy, and the Ice Climbers). Hope Sonic and Tails can become another one of them.

I'm not sure if it's true of course, this is the first time Verge is implying an Echo fighter is in since he never mentioned Daisy, Richter, Chrom, or Dark Samus. But it's interesting to note regardless.

 

[TerminatorLOL]

So talk around the "Leak" block is that Ken is being implied to be in Smash as Ryu's echo from Vergeben. There were some musings that Akuma could be the echo but if this is true this is a character's best friend getting in. And I'm not sure Ken was exactly a strong ballot suggestion. This may be a case of Sakurai and/or Capcom wanting the original echo fighter in. Still, that's another pair of characters that could be considered a friendly duo in Smash (Mario and Luigi, Donkey Kong and Diddy, Link and Zelda, Fox and Falco, Pokemon Trainer and his Pokemon, Peach and Daisy, and the Ice Climbers). Hope Sonic and Tails can become another one of them.

I'm not sure if it's true of course, this is the first time Verge is implying an Echo fighter is in since he never mentioned Daisy, Richter, Chrom, or Dark Samus. But it's interesting to note regardless.

Didn't he say Isabella was in? I'd be surprised if she wasn't a echo if so.

 

[SonicMario]

Didn't he say Isabella was in? I'd be surprised if she wasn't a echo if so.

Almost forgot about Isabelle. But to be fair at the time Verge mentioned Isabelle. There was still some thought she'd be unique or at least semi-cloned off Villager. That's all changed now thanks to Chrom and to a lesser extent Dark Samus.

 

[Jigglymaster]

So talk around the "Leak" block is that Ken is being implied to be in Smash as Ryu's echo from Vergeben. There were some musings that Akuma could be the echo but if this is true this is a character's best friend getting in. And I'm not sure Ken was exactly a strong ballot suggestion. This may be a case of Sakurai and/or Capcom wanting the original echo fighter in. Still, that's another pair of characters that could be considered a friendly duo in Smash (Mario and Luigi, Donkey Kong and Diddy, Link and Zelda, Fox and Falco, Pokemon Trainer and his Pokemon, Peach and Daisy, and the Ice Climbers). Hope Sonic and Tails can become another one of them.

I'm not sure if it's true of course, this is the first time Verge is implying an Echo fighter is in since he never mentioned Daisy, Richter, Chrom, or Dark Samus. But it's interesting to note regardless.

I'm almost positive that Akuma is not an echo because of the fact Street fighter's soundtrack when from 6->36.

Seems like an arbitrary number at first, but both Ken and Ryu had 3 songs each in Smash 4, one being a remix, the other being the classic, and the last being a sped up version of the classic. SF2 Turbo definitive version of Street Fighter 2 and that game has 12 characters. Give them each 3 songs and suddenly you end up with 36. While Akuma is a boss in that, he is NOT apart of the main roster. So, I just kind of see it impossible for Akuma to be an echo when his own song doesn't even appear in the game, pair that with the fact that there's even more going for Ken now with the leaks and what not.

Back on the topic of the Sonic characters, another important thing to remember is that unlike Tails and Knuckles, Shadow was already in Smash 4 as an Assist Trophy when the ballot was out. Back then, we thought the Ballot was strictly for Smash 4 DLC, in which case voting for an assist trophy would probably seem as a waste to some and therefore nerf Shadow's poll results quite a bit. Perhaps even enough that it gave Tails/Knuckles the edge over him...

I also re-watched the Mii Fighter costume videos again and I couldn't help but notice a few things
- Sonic, Mii Tails, and Mii Knuckles were shown together as a trio. It's hard for me to believe that they would just leave Tails completely in Ultimate and not give him some kind of new role. Him being playable or as an assist would make a lot of sense to get him in there, however the former seems much more likely.
- The way the characters line up at the end... Tails was infront of quite a few miis, including both Knuckles and Ashely. This makes me wonder how important the final line up is, considering K.Rool was at the very front of his line. The only problem with this is that Gil was infront of Tails, and I don't really see him becoming a playable character anytime soon....

 

[SonicMario]

- The way the characters line up at the end... Tails was infront of quite a few miis, including both Knuckles and Ashely. This makes me wonder how important the final line up is, considering K.Rool was at the very front of his line. The only problem with this is that Gil was infront of Tails, and I don't really see him becoming a playable character anytime soon....

That might be looking a little too much into the line-up at the end of those videos. They're showing that particular wave of Mii Costume DLC in the videos and it probably didn't matter too much at the time of making it on which costumes were in front.

 

[Chrono.]

Back on the topic of the Sonic characters, another important thing to remember is that unlike Tails and Knuckles, Shadow was already in Smash 4 as an Assist Trophy when the ballot was out. Back then, we thought the Ballot was strictly for Smash 4 DLC, in which case voting for an assist trophy would probably seem as a waste to some and therefore nerf Shadow's poll results quite a bit. Perhaps even enough that it gave Tails/Knuckles the edge over him...
.

I feel the ballot isn't necessarily the be all and end all. I'm sure Sakurai is aware of Shadow's popularity regardless of it, just like he's been aware of Ridley's and K.Rool's popularity for a long while now. The fact that he chose him over Tails, Knuckles and even Dr Eggman to be an AT back in Brawl could be proof of that.

That and he's just a no-brainer for an echo character. Unlike other AT bind characters who would need original movesets but likely don't have as huge of support (Waluigi and Ashley come to mind.)

 

[THE 6r]

Sure, add me me to the supporters list

 

[SonicMario]

I feel the ballot isn't necessarily the be all and end all. I'm sure Sakurai is aware of Shadow's popularity regardless of it, just like he's been aware of Ridley's and K.Rool's popularity for a long while now. The fact that he chose him over Tails, Knuckles and even Dr Eggman to be an AT back in Brawl could be proof of that.

That and he's just a no-brainer for an echo character. Unlike other AT bind characters who would need original movesets but likely don't have as huge of support (Waluigi and Ashley come to mind.)

While sure, popularity must of had at least some part of it. I think another reason Shadow might of been an AT is how easy he was to do. Reminder that Sonic was pretty last minute. All Shadow does is a shorter version of the Timer item and with no risk of it backfiring.

But yeah, I'm still preparing for the day he's pretty much shown off. Sakurai tells us these are the last echo fighters in the next Smash Direct. Either Green Hill Zone or Windy Hill appearing getting me a slight hope for it being Tails instead, but then Shadow appears and I go "Welp, should've figured".

 

[Jigglymaster]

While sure, popularity must of had at least some part of it. I think another reason Shadow might of been an AT is how easy he was to do. Reminder that Sonic was pretty last minute. All Shadow does is a shorter version of the Timer item and with no risk of it backfiring.

But yeah, I'm still preparing for the day he's pretty much shown off. Sakurai tells us these are the last echo fighters in the next Smash Direct. Either Green Hill Zone or Windy Hill appearing getting me a slight hope for it being Tails instead, but then Shadow appears and I go "Welp, should've figured".

Honestly if anything Green Hill related shows up in the echo section and Tails didn't get a trailer yet, he's done for. There is no conceivable world where Tails gets in as an Echo Fighter and Shadow doesn't make it in at all, or both of them make it in as echos..... what I'm trying to say is that Tails isn't going to be an echo fighter, no way.

If the next direct doesn't show off Tails immediately, I'm going to be pretty darn nervous lmao.


"just like he's been aware of Ridley's and K.Rool's popularity for a long while now "

That's not true at all. There was a recent DK podcast that talked about Sakurai being completely surprised by K.Rool's popularity from the ballot and he was added in as a mii costume in the 11th hour.

Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/97zplc/according_to_this_podcast_k_rools_ballot_results/

 

[Chrono.]

That's not true at all. There was a recent DK podcast that talked about Sakurai being completely surprised by K.Rool's popularity from the ballot and he was added in as a mii costume in the 11th hour.

Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/97zplc/according_to_this_podcast_k_rools_ballot_results/

Yeah I saw this, but it's not like I'm gonna 100% trust some random guy with a podcast.

Anyone could say something like this.

 

[SonicMario]

Honestly if anything Green Hill related shows up in the echo section and Tails didn't get a trailer yet, he's done for. There is no conceivable world where Tails gets in as an Echo Fighter and Shadow doesn't make it in at all, or both of them make it in as echos..... what I'm trying to say is that Tails isn't going to be an echo fighter, no way.

If the next direct doesn't show off Tails immediately, I'm going to be pretty darn nervous lmao.

I don't know. With Chrom kind of changing the game even if only slightly for Echoes I could conceivably see Tails covered with most of Sonic's moveset plus a function like Peach's float.

Still even that much I understand might be a little too much work then they're willing to do for most echoes. And Shadow could conceivably share much of Sonic moveset with little to no problems besides changing the spring to a teleport or something.

I just have a hard time seeing a semi-clone/unique Sonic character making it in the base game at all. I think it's echo or bust for any 2nd Sonic reps in the base game. And if that's the case, maybe that already spells Tails' doom. But Tails and Shadow both have potential in becoming DLC should both or one of the other doesn't make it (Presuming Shadow's not an Assist Trophy again if he's not playable). At this point though, I'll take Tails anyhow I can get it and as soon as I can. I've already mentioned I would take Tails as an echo and Shadow getting semi-clone in DLC as much as it would annoy me that Shadow was made more unique then Tails was, but at least I would still have Tails at all. It's a pill to swallow that I'm sure fans of Dark Samus and most of the other echoes will have to get through. But if it's the only way Tails makes it in, I'll take it.

Any excuse to get Sonic & Tails Vs. Mario & Luigi officially possible in Smash. Echo Tails > Shadow and Knuckles getting upgrades while he gets literally no upgrade from Smash 4.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I don't know. With Chrom kind of changing the game even if only slightly for Echoes I could conceivably see Tails covered with most of Sonic's moveset plus a function like Peach's float.

Still even that much I understand might be a little too much work then they're willing to do for most echoes. And Shadow could conceivably share much of Sonic moveset with little to no problems besides changing the spring to a teleport or something.

I just have a hard time seeing a semi-clone/unique Sonic character making it in the base game at all. I think it's echo or bust for any 2nd Sonic reps in the base game. And if that's the case, maybe that already spells Tails' doom. But Tails and Shadow both have potential in becoming DLC should both or one of the other doesn't make it (Presuming Shadow's not an Assist Trophy again if he's not playable). At this point though, I'll take Tails anyhow I can get it and as soon as I can. I've already mentioned I would take Tails as an echo and Shadow getting semi-clone in DLC as much as it would annoy me that Shadow was made more unique then Tails was, but at least I would still have Tails at all. It's a pill to swallow that I'm sure fans of Dark Samus and most of the other echoes will have to get through. But if it's the only way Tails makes it in, I'll take it.

Any excuse to get Sonic & Tails Vs. Mario & Luigi officially possible in Smash. Echo Tails > Shadow and Knuckles getting upgrades while he gets literally no upgrade from Smash 4.

I don't really think Tails is gonna be a Sonic+Peach Float, like it'd make WAY more sense if his tail spinning stuff was his recovery. Unlike Shadow, Tails has an entirely different feature about him in the form of well... his two tails. Sonic doesn't have any tail attacks of his own, so Tails being an Echo fighter wouldn't utilize his defining trait at all. As for Shadow and his teleport.... have you ever considered how much worse that would make him compared to Sonic? A good portion of Sonic's moveset revolves around his spring, the fact that it sends him so high and that he can act out of it. A teleport like Mewtwo's can't do that. Pair that with the fact that Sonic's down air is designed to send him down just as fast as spring sends him up, they kind of work together in that sense. So it's just hard for me to imagine that Shadow would have a teleport, but keep the down air that was meant to work with the spring. Change the d-air and then is it even an echo? Chrom is considered an Echo because he's Roy w/ Ike Up Special, but Doc isn't because he has a different down special and a down air.

That being said, sure, Shadow has a lot in common with Sonic. In Sonic Forces DLC, he plays the same as Sonic, in Sonic Adventure 2, he plays the same as Sonic, he often has the same roles as Sonic does. He'd probably make it in as an echo one way or another. But Tails? He's not a hedgehog and not once has he ever been a clone of Sonic, something has always been different about him and he's always had his own unique role. They're also not going to throw in two echo fighters for Sonic. It's either going to be New+Echo, or just Echo. And if it's only going to be one echo, it's going to be shadow and not tails.

This isn't about begging for him to be in Smash, even if it's just an echo. I'm looking at it from a realistic point of view and Tails is either is own unique character or he's not in the game. There is no pill to swallow unless it actually happens or heavy leaks start to show that he is infact an echo.

EDIT: I think from the way that the game shows the characters on the select screen, there won't be a single character that has more than one echo of the same fighter. I mean look at the way it toggles, they're not going to have you toggle through Sonic, Shadow, and Tails. I think that's even further proof that Tails will not be an echo fighter unless you really believe that they'd put him in as an echo over Shadow or that we live in a bizarre world where Tails is the echo and Shadow is the unique one. This will probably take into account for DLC as well.

 

[SonicMario]

Yeah, yeah I understand. I just admit I'd be incredibly worried that maybe they'd just stop at just an echo Shadow even in consideration for DLC. Cause there's still Switch-era characters like ARMS and Xenoblade 2 characters that might get in then and of course 3rd parties from companies not already in the game.

I should still have the Tails Mii costume to at least somewhat keep me occupied but otherwise yeah.


Anyway maybe at a somewhat more positive subject. Besides of course any buddy interactions with Sonic. It'd be fun to imagine Tails meeting Fox. Who's not only a fellow anthro fox but also a pilot. Though Sonic and Tails both would probably get along well with Fox and Falco in general.

 

[Jigglymaster]

It's very possible, unfortunately. I have faith that Sakurai isn't going to screw Tails over, even if it means that SEGA has 3 Unique Reps and 1 Echo. I think having a set number of fighters per 3rd party is BS and just a fan rule. I have faith that the Mii Costumes really did mean something for Tails and that we'll be getting a full fledged trailer for him as well as an Eggman Boss fight.

Also regarding Fox, Tails actually did interact with Fox in the Mii Fighter Costume trailer, so that's something to note. It would be nice to have more than one fox in the game. As much as I love foxes, Fox's playstyle just never connected with me, so I don't use him.

 

[Fenriraga]

I am of the firm belief that, unless it's an echo, the next Sonic rep HAS to be Tails. It isn't debatable. Tails is second only to Luigi as the most recognizable sidekick in all of gaming, and that's no small feat. It doesn't matter how popular people claim Shadow is, he's not nearly as widely known as Tails to the general masses. This is practically fact.

I also absolutely feel like Tails can easily bring the most unique kit of the bunch. The basic necessities of a Sonic character packed together with tech, flight and tail swipes.

If it's an echo, sure, Shadow or Metal or Classic are more befitting of a quick job. But if we're going all out, Tails is the only one worthy.

Definitely a Tails supporter. Sonic & Tails vs. Mario & Luigi has been the absolute dream since Melee.

 

[SonicMario]

While space is kinda limited for Sonic songs at the moment (It could be anywhere from 2-6 depending on a few factors unless they cut any songs that were in Smash 4). And of course it'd be nice to have a new remix (Other then the Angel Island remix anyway) rather then all original tracks. Thought I'd list a couple of songs I wouldn't mind coming with Tails.

Sonic 2 Representation: Emerald Hill Zone which was in Brawl but not in Smash 4 can come back if Tails is playable. Though Chemical Plant Zone would also be neat since that's kind of become Sonic 2's Green Hill Zone in popping up in recent games. A new remix would be nice but the modern version from Generations would be fine enough.

Character Themes: I would like I Believe In Myself as a song as well. I personally prefer the SA2 version and I wouldn't mind either vocals or instrumental. Though they could also bring the song that plays in the plane bonus level in Sonic Lost World that is a bit of a remix of it.

SA2 Level Themes: Prison Lane would be pretty cool to have. Though my personal favorite Tails level theme was probably Eternal Engine. That was probably the worst Tails level in that game for how it played but I did like it's Music quite a bit.

 

[Mastermiine]

I am of the firm belief that, unless it's an echo, the next Sonic rep HAS to be Tails. It isn't debatable. Tails is second only to Luigi as the most recognizable sidekick in all of gaming, and that's no small feat. It doesn't matter how popular people claim Shadow is, he's not nearly as widely known as Tails to the general masses. This is practically fact.

I also absolutely feel like Tails can easily bring the most unique kit of the bunch. The basic necessities of a Sonic character packed together with tech, flight and tail swipes.

If it's an echo, sure, Shadow or Metal or Classic are more befitting of a quick job. But if we're going all out, Tails is the only one worthy.

Definitely a Tails supporter. Sonic & Tails vs. Mario & Luigi has been the absolute dream since Melee.

I do hope its both Shadow and Tails. I would be extreamly happy if thats the case. I guess only time would tell I guess.

 

[Chrono.]

I am of the firm belief that, unless it's an echo, the next Sonic rep HAS to be Tails. It isn't debatable. Tails is second only to Luigi as the most recognizable sidekick in all of gaming, and that's no small feat. It doesn't matter how popular people claim Shadow is, he's not nearly as widely known as Tails to the general masses. This is practically fact.

I also absolutely feel like Tails can easily bring the most unique kit of the bunch. The basic necessities of a Sonic character packed together with tech, flight and tail swipes.

If it's an echo, sure, Shadow or Metal or Classic are more befitting of a quick job. But if we're going all out, Tails is the only one worthy.

Definitely a Tails supporter. Sonic & Tails vs. Mario & Luigi has been the absolute dream since Melee.

I always knew you were a Ｍａｎ ｏｆ Ｃｕｌｔｕｒｅ.

 

[SonicMario]

So uh with any topics to go on to maybe keep this thread active (I doubt this thread is going to become as active as any of the big support threads that have essentially become social threads for many supporters). I suppose we can get into whatever's next in terms of Sonic games. Team Sonic Racing is of course the next game. I know there's been concern that it may not be nearly as good as All-Stars with it having a bit of a different team from those games. But hope it's still decent enough at least.

And I suppose on topic some of Tails dialouge in Team Sonic Racing has become a bit of a controversial subject since Tails gets in to the trash talk. Depending who you are, Tails saying "Who's your daddy, Shadow?!" either hilarious or out of character for him. I personally think it's alright being as young as he is hanging around Sonic he's sure to pick up a few things even if it's a bit of a bad influence on him. But I understand why people might believe Tails isn't one to participate in the kind of overconfident trash talk as much as Sonic might. Though I think in the Boom Show he's kind of a deadpan snarker like Sonic sometimes is. But I haven't watched it in a while

 

[Jigglymaster]

I am of the firm belief that, unless it's an echo, the next Sonic rep HAS to be Tails. It isn't debatable. Tails is second only to Luigi as the most recognizable sidekick in all of gaming, and that's no small feat. It doesn't matter how popular people claim Shadow is, he's not nearly as widely known as Tails to the general masses. This is practically fact.

I also absolutely feel like Tails can easily bring the most unique kit of the bunch. The basic necessities of a Sonic character packed together with tech, flight and tail swipes.

If it's an echo, sure, Shadow or Metal or Classic are more befitting of a quick job. But if we're going all out, Tails is the only one worthy.

Definitely a Tails supporter. Sonic & Tails vs. Mario & Luigi has been the absolute dream since Melee.

100% Agree. Tails will only get in as a new character,, and Shadow will only get in as an echo. They will not be getting in as the other. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that they WON'T take the echo only route.

Maybe to keep things active, I'll make a list of Tails' pros and cons, even if it's been discussed a bunch already.

Pros
1. Knuckles was Deconfirmed: Removing Knuckles as Unique Competition is HUGE. He was basically the only other Sonic character besides Shadow that had an edge on Tails.
2. Sonic has an Assist Trophy Already: If it wasn't already good enough, since most series seem to have one Assist Trophy, it probably means our boy isn't going to show up here. Pair that with the fact that if Knuckles got an upgrade.... how could they leave Tails behind, who is arguably way more important than Knuckles?
3. Tails has a Mii Costume: We've already gathered that having Mii Costumes seems to have had a big impact on appearing in the game whether it be Assist Trophy or an actual character. Seeing Pro #2, this is also good for us.
4. Good chance that Tails did well on the Ballot: Being one of the most iconic sidekicks in gaming history along with things like the infamous Melee hoax have probably put Tails up on the list. If I remember correctly, there was an article talking about IGN backing Tails for Smash.
5. Relevancy doesn't matter: Despite the fact that the Sonic series hasn't been all too great recently (aside from Mania) and that Tails' appearance in Sonic Forces as abysmal to his character, none of that probably even matters.
6. Shadow hasn't been shown yet: We've made it through three echo fighters without seeing Shadow yet. Either that's a coincidence that they haven't shown him yet, or perhaps it could be because they plan on showing Echo Shadow alongside Tails as a new character.
7. Shadow probably won't be a unique fighter: Considering Shadow is often seen as a pallet swap of Sonic, much like Ken, he will probably become an echo fighter, leaving the unique spot open to Tails.
8. Dr. Eggman is likely to appear as a boss: This too, probably has not been shown yet because it's being saved for the new mystery mode. The fact that we've seen two boss characters from actual video game franchises (unlike Brawl where half of them were original), they're probably going to need bosses, and for that Eggman would be a wise choice. More Sonic Content would justify having two new Sonic characters in the form of Tails and Shadow.
9. There doesn't seem to be anymore new stages: With Sakurai tallying up the total stage list, there is a good chance that we are actually not getting any more until DLC. This is good for Tails because it essentially hurts characters that would come along with a new stage, such as somebody like Banjo or Rayman. The Sonic franchise already exists in Smash, so Tails wouldn't need a new stage to come along with him.

Cons
1. Shadow is most likely the new sonic rep: Easily our biggest downside. It's asking a lot to add both Shadow AND Tails, even if Shadow is only an echo. Some people seem to think that it's impossible to get more than 2 characters of the same series, or even the same 3rd party, but that's just a fan rule. Even if it is a fan rule, it does hurt...
2. Sega has two characters already: Yeah this one stings a bit as well. As if I didn't hate Bayo enough already. She apparently takes up the 2nd SEGA slot. Once again, a fan rule, but one that hurts us quite a lot...
3. Most Fan Ballot Polls do not have Tails listed: Kinda surprised by this myself, he seems to be absent on a lot of them. Of course, Fan Ballot Polls aren't the real ones, and they probably consist of more smaller/dedicated fans who have tighter support groups. There may be more casual people voting for Tails to have made the difference.
4. No leaks regarding Tails: Probably a minor one, but I've barley seen anyone talk about any leaks that have Tails. It's not that bad because most leaks are fake, but there are a few out there that are true.
5. Our Support thread is small: This kinda goes off Con #3, we just have less dedicated/hardcore ballot voters here. Doesn't mean that Tails didn't do well with the casual voters.


Overall Thoughts: I think the pros outweigh the cons here, but not enough where he's a shoe in. If I had to put my life on the line, I'd say he's in the game, so he's aleast above 50%. But I wouldn't say much higher than that.

 

[SonicMario]

I had nearly forgotten about that IGN article supporting Tails for Smash. It may not do much, but then again there was that time someone got to talk with Sakurai for an article on the website and said their most wanted was Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings. Lo and behold, the Koopalings became alts for Bowser Jr. in Smash 4. So maybe Sakurai notices who's being supported for Smash amongst game sites at least some of the time.

 

[Jigglymaster]

So here's another fun tidbit I've noticed. Ever since E3, we've been getting new music once a week (usually on a Tuesday) put on the Smash website. Of the 13 songs already on the website, NONE of them are repeating franchises. Also, every post-E3 Newcomer (Simon and K.Rool), have both gotten remixes of their songs on the website.

What does this mean for Tails? Well, the fact that a Sonic song has yet to show up is a good thing. If there was one, in order to be in the game, Tails would have to either break the pattern by having a 2nd sonic song show up, or have a trailer without a new song. The more weeks we can go without getting a Sonic song or the pattern breaking, the more likely he is to be in smash IMO.

As for echo fighters, their songs can still happen, but sometimes either show up on the page early (like Dark Samus and the Brinstar remix) or Richter which doesn't have his song up on the website at all... most likely because Simon's is already on the site. Essentially that means that if Shadow is an echo fighter, his remix won't go on the site (if he is even in the game and gets one).

In short.... the longer we don't get Sonic music on the website, the better, because they very well could be saving the Sonic song as a remix of Tails' theme.

Also, here is a list of franchises that don't have songs yet on the website (excluding the franchises that didn't get any new songs based on the music footage we've seen)
Super Mario
Pokémon
Yoshi
Earthbound
Kid Icarus
WarioWare
Pikmin
Punch-Out!!
Wii Fit
Xenoblade
Duck Hunt
Sonic
Pac-Man
Any other non playable franchise

13+ franchises left with about 15 weeks to go until the game comes out.

What do you guys make of this noticeable pattern? Think it will be broken, or do you think this could be something that actually ends up being the deciding factor for Tails' chances depending whether or not a Sonic shows up before the next direct. I'm assuming we have at least 5 more songs to go before we reach that. Giving us roughly a 38% chance that a Sonic song will show up before then, assuming Tails isn't in the game and they stay true to their pattern.
(Also assuming that one of those 5 songs doesn't come from a non playable franchise)

 

[SonicMario]

So here's another fun tidbit I've noticed. Ever since E3, we've been getting new music once a week (usually on a Tuesday) put on the Smash website. Of the 13 songs already on the website, NONE of them are repeating franchises. Also, every post-E3 Newcomer (Simon and K.Rool), have both gotten remixes of their songs on the website.

What does this mean for Tails? Well, the fact that a Sonic song has yet to show up is a good thing. If there was one, in order to be in the game, Tails would have to either break the pattern by having a 2nd sonic song show up, or have a trailer without a new song. The more weeks we can go without getting a Sonic song or the pattern breaking, the more likely he is to be in smash IMO.

As for echo fighters, their songs can still happen, but sometimes either show up on the page early (like Dark Samus and the Brinstar remix) or Richter which doesn't have his song up on the website at all... most likely because Simon's is already on the site. Essentially that means that if Shadow is an echo fighter, his remix won't go on the site (if he is even in the game and gets one).

In short.... the longer we don't get Sonic music on the website, the better, because they very well could be saving the Sonic song as a remix of Tails' theme.

Also, here is a list of franchises that don't have songs yet on the website (excluding the franchises that didn't get any new songs based on the music footage we've seen)
Super Mario
Pokémon
Yoshi
Earthbound
Kid Icarus
WarioWare
Pikmin
Punch-Out!!
Wii Fit
Xenoblade
Duck Hunt
Sonic
Pac-Man
Any other non playable franchise

13+ franchises left with about 15 weeks to go until the game comes out.

What do you guys make of this noticeable pattern? Think it will be broken, or do you think this could be something that actually ends up being the deciding factor for Tails' chances depending whether or not a Sonic shows up before the next direct. I'm assuming we have at least 5 more songs to go before we reach that. Giving us roughly a 38% chance that a Sonic song will show up before then, assuming Tails isn't in the game and they stay true to their pattern.
(Also assuming that one of those 5 songs doesn't come from a non playable franchise)

It'd be interesting if it could be a clue but I do feel at the moment of it being a stretch on whether a Sonic song not showing up means much for Tails. But of course I'd love to be wrong. It's just whatever the Sonic remix could be, it could be ANYTHING. Sonic has such a rich music history we have no idea what they'll pick to actually remix. There's only 20 Sonic songs in the game. Meaning at most barring any songs from Smash 4 being cut and/or songs that were in Brawl but not in Smash 4 returning, there will be at most 6 additional songs. Tails theme being remixed is a possibility especially if he's playable. Though if Shadow's in I feel like he'll probably come with the original version of one of his themes (Either I Am (All Of Me) or... blegh... All Hail Shadow...). Though again there's so much good music in the series they could add the 6 most popular suggestions and there'd still be a good amount of songs snubbed.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Hopefully, the music shown in the direct are not the total number of songs per series and there will be several still left to be unlocked. It doesn't feel right for Sonic, with two stages, to have less music than Street Fighter or Castlevania.

 

[SonicMario]

So we have confirmation from Sakurai that the Ballot was for the most part critical for this game's choices

If many of the Mii Costumes are indicators of Ballot Success. Then that bodes well for some characters including our two-tailed fox.

While it may be hard to believe that maybe Tails and/or Knuckles beat Shadow in the ballot. There could be some factors why either one of them could of been higher if they indeed were. I think many confused this ballot specifically for this to be for Smash 4 DLC despite the tagline of future considerations. And for many it might of been seen as impossible for Assist Trophies to become DLC so the push to campaign for Shadow from Shadow fans might of not been as huge then if Shadow was missing from the game entirely beyond a regular trophy. Of course maybe both Tails and Shadow did well enough where they're both in if enough of the Sonic fanbase pitched in. Which would be ideal, I just don't know if that will happen.

And while you could bring up Dark Samus as a counterpoint, I think it's possible she did well cause maybe Metroid fans were desperate for a metroid rep that could feasibly be more realistic after being told Ridley wouldn't work from interviews at the time by Sakurai himself. (Though I think Ridley did well enough in the ballot anyway, just that Ridley's probably the one character Sakurai's was told about alot over the years and finally managed to think of a way to make it work for Smash Ultimate)

Probably the one exception to a character that may have not been entirely ballot supported was Richter since even Sakurai said he felt there were many who was going to ask who he was. Though even then there was probably a good amount of Japanese fans probably supporting Richter in the ballot.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Hopefully, the music shown in the direct are not the total number of songs per series and there will be several still left to be unlocked. It doesn't feel right for Sonic, with two stages, to have less music than Street Fighter or Castlevania.

I think they are, though, that's nothing to worry about I think. Street Fighter only has 36 because there is a remixed song, the original song, and the sped up version of the original (for when the game gets close to the end). In Smash 4, they only had this for Ryu and Ken. But It's looking like this time they'll have it for all 12 characters from Street fighter 2 turbo. So if you ignore the fact that 24 of those 36 are just original songs from the old game, only 12 are new, with 2 of them already showing up in Smash 4.

As for Castlevania... well, that series has always been known for it's amazing music, it's nothing to be ashamed of that they have more music than Sonic.


As for Sonic himself, he's making the biggest jump than ever before. In Smash 4, he went from 12-14, and now he's going 14-20. Even if you bring back all the cut songs from Brawl, there is still room for new sonic songs. It's still better than other third parties not getting new songs at all, like Bayonetta and Final Fantasy.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

I think they are, though, that's nothing to worry about I think. Street Fighter only has 36 because there is a remixed song, the original song, and the sped up version of the original (for when the game gets close to the end). In Smash 4, they only had this for Ryu and Ken. But It's looking like this time they'll have it for all 12 characters from Street fighter 2 turbo. So if you ignore the fact that 24 of those 36 are just original songs from the old game, only 12 are new, with 2 of them already showing up in Smash 4.

As for Castlevania... well, that series has always been known for it's amazing music, it's nothing to be ashamed of that they have more music than Sonic.


As for Sonic himself, he's making the biggest jump than ever before. In Smash 4, he went from 12-14, and now he's going 14-20. Even if you bring back all the cut songs from Brawl, there is still room for new sonic songs. It's still better than other third parties not getting new songs at all, like Bayonetta and Final Fantasy.

Oh, I am very happy that Castlevania is getting so much music, I wouldn't have it any other way. And your point for Street Fighter makes sense, though even without repeats, it has enough great songs to cover 30.

I just would like more music in general, and Sonic, as a series, does have some fantastic tunes (heck, S3&K has enough great songs in itself to fill up that number). Maybe I'm being a bit greedy, but I would like to have the game stuffed with so many beloved and memorable songs.

And since Final Fantasy was mentioned, I really hope we do get more than 2. I understand the possible legal issues, but having so little feels a bit embarrassing.




Anyway, back to Miles. I honestly think his ballot results were pretty good. He's one of the most beloved gaming icons of all time, I'm sure there's a lot of people who would have supported him. It's just odd he is so overlooked in the Smash community, I never really got that.

 

[Chrono.]

Anyway, back to Miles. I honestly think his ballot results were pretty good. He's one of the most beloved gaming icons of all time, I'm sure there's a lot of people who would have supported him. It's just odd he is so overlooked in the Smash community, I never really got that.

Some characters are just overlooked regardless of legacy.

I think Cloud is a perfect example. His support was nothing to write home about, mostly because by that point the community had it in their heads that Cloud was too "Playstation" and had no real appearances in Nintendo games outside of spinoffs and Kingdom Hearts. On top of that some people felt that his aesthetic wouldn't fit Smash, so the Final Fantasy characters that had the biggest support were the cartoony ones like Chocobo, Moogle and Black Mage. Though all of them have proper merits on their own, Cloud's legacy is just too huge.

 

[SonicMario]

I mentioned Tails getting along with other characters before other then obviously Sonic with mentioning Fox and somewhat Falco. But thought I'd mention at least a few more I think people might connect Tails with in headcanon stuff and such.

- Fellow side kicks. In particular with Luigi, a friendly rivalry like Sonic and Mario have. Though I think Tails and Luigi would be closer friends then Sonic and Mario are. They have a few more similarities other then just being the player 2 of the franchise after all. They can be cowardly at times and they look up to their franchise's respective main character.
- To put it simply they're all kids who'd probably all be friends to play with in their minds.
Tails as a mechanical genius might be interested in the robots in the group. In a similar way Tails might be interested in 's Armor though if he saw Megaman and ROB before her, he might not know it's just a suit until Samus takes off the helmet and/or suit.
Tails might want a good look at an F-Zero machine as well.

 

[Takasmash]

It will be kinda perfect if Tails was newcomer where Tails and Sonic fights Shadow man that will be perfect similar to K Rool trailer.

 

[Mastermiine]

Here is another reddit survey I did. It only tracks the 1st 100 people for what ever reason but here are the results.

So Bassed off this it looks like r/smashbros and r/sonicthehegehog wants..

Shadow as #2
Tails as #3
Dr.Eggman as #4 (but if he became a boss Silver would be next in line.
Then Amy as #5.

If those were our 5 I would be happy with that.

Amy also wins the AT.

 

[SonicMario]

There was some degree of talk about Tails in the Ultimate Discussion thread. For the most part civil, still mostly in people's mind and with good enough reason that Shadow is still more likely at the moment but still a decent discussion of where Tails stands and even a couple people mentioning they wouldn't mind or would even really like Tails to come in. Now if only some of those people could come here and help make this thread a little more active at least, heh (I'd like this thread to at least be popping for when DLC starts, barring the small chance Tails is playable in the base game in which of course this thread pops because it will become a social thread for the character. )

Regardless or not if Shadow's in the game as an echo fighter, Tails is going to face a bit of an uphill battle during the DLC period and I'd like to back the support as much as possible.

I won't give up on Tails entirely for this game unless either Shadow's playable and is not an echo, somehow Tails is a 2nd Sonic assist trophy, or until after the final character of DLC drops.

 

[Door Key Pig]

As a wild prediction, what if because Sega partnered w/ Activision to release N. Sane Trilogy in Japan, they work with Nintendo to get Crash in the game (Mario/Sonic/Crash dynamic) and as part of the deal Tails was also brought in??? Well I can dream

With Sonic as a character, Shadow possibly as an echo, Knuckles as an assist trophy (who does an underground dig thing which wouldn't usually be seen in a playable character I guess), Eggman possibly as a boss and if Tails got in too, we'd have a solid representation for the Sonic cast. Plus we could finally have that fake Melee leak realised!

 

[SonicMario]

As a wild prediction, what if because Sega partnered w/ Activision to release N. Sane Trilogy in Japan, they work with Nintendo to get Crash in the game (Mario/Sonic/Crash dynamic) and as part of the deal Tails was also brought in??? Well I can dream

With Sonic as a character, Shadow possibly as an echo, Knuckles as an assist trophy (who does an underground dig thing which wouldn't usually be seen in a playable character I guess), Eggman possibly as a boss and if Tails got in too, we'd have a solid representation for the Sonic cast. Plus we could finally have that fake Melee leak realised!

Crash and Tails would be a weird package deal. The weird thing is I think Sega is only partnering with Activision for the SWITCH version in Japan considering it did release in Japan previously on the PS4 of course.

And that Melee april fools joke is part of why I think the Tails support may be the oldest in terms of 2nd Sonic characters. Outdating the support for Shadow that obviously happened Post-Brawl given how many mods were made for Shadow when modding became possible. Just that Shadow's support may have been louder and now with echo fighters is easier then ever before to get him in. I do kinda think this april fools joke did at least in part to increase the demand for Sonic back in the Brawl speculation days. And by all means it should have been a priority to get him and him alone since 2 Sonic characters right off the bat would be pushing it. Though yeah, having this fully realized would be nice especially amongst some of the older stuff that were planned at one point (Not that Sonic and Tails were both together ever actually planned for Melee. Though I know Sega even way back then considered pitching Sonic to be in Melee. But just saying amongst older ideas in general) like Ditto and Sukapon.

 

[Fatmanonice]

With the freakishly high chance that Sonic is getting an Echo, I really do hope it's Tails instead of Shadow. Historically, in regards to Smash, Shadow would make more sense because Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was the official end of the decade long SEGA vs Nintendo rivalry and him being an assist trophy in Brawl and SSB4, but in video game history, Sonic and Tails are most iconic duo aside from Mario and Luigi and Ryu and Ken.

 

[SonicMario]

With the freakishly high chance that Sonic is getting an Echo, I really do hope it's Tails instead of Shadow. Historically, in regards to Smash, Shadow would make more sense because Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was the official end of the decade long SEGA vs Nintendo rivalry and him being an assist trophy in Brawl and SSB4, but in video game history, Sonic and Tails are most iconic duo aside from Mario and Luigi and Ryu and Ken.

Yeah wouldn't mind him being the echo instead of Shadow either. I've made that clear earlier. But again it's easy to see why Shadow is considered more likely with an easier body build to echo off Sonic. I still kind of stand that a Sonic echo with Peach's float or even make his Up+B the only original move he has (Chrom has kind of muddled the issue of "What makes a character an echo?" after all) could work. Anything to make Sonic & Tails Vs. Mario & Luigi a legendary doubles match possible. But I get why Shadow's seen as much more likely at the moment.

The game is going pretty crazy with 3rd parties though, which is why I'm not entirely giving up on Tails for a while now.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

As a wild prediction, what if because Sega partnered w/ Activision to release N. Sane Trilogy in Japan, they work with Nintendo to get Crash in the game (Mario/Sonic/Crash dynamic) and as part of the deal Tails was also brought in??? Well I can dream

With Sonic as a character, Shadow possibly as an echo, Knuckles as an assist trophy (who does an underground dig thing which wouldn't usually be seen in a playable character I guess), Eggman possibly as a boss and if Tails got in too, we'd have a solid representation for the Sonic cast. Plus we could finally have that fake Melee leak realised!

I really don't see how Crash factors into Tails at all. All Sakurai really needs to do is ask SEGA and I'm sure that they would gladly include him. I think the bigger hurdle is whether or not Sakurai sees the value in Prower, if the popularity is big enough, that would tip things in his favor.