I told you so Gary, + some other people

[Nixernator]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=288727

This is why when I plank with my supposedly invulnerable UpB, I still get gimped by ****ing MK mains when they jump off and Dair whilst im in my UpB animation still! I've been saying there is some lack of invincibility frames for a while now but now it is proven!

****IT GAME AND WATCH U SO BAD </3

Spoiler

no more planking mks anymore for me sob sob sob

Pic related

and now I'm back to study.

 

[Attila_]

@ledge: i was trolling.

@splice: i'm not checking, but there's no way in hell that mk's dair's hitbox is out for 8 frames. most probably two. his nair would be a much more viable option, however.

 

[Splice]

Yeh the hitbox on Dair is only out for 2 frames.

The hitbox for Nair is also 2 frames iirc but then afterwards its got like a weaker hitbox for a while, but tbh that isn't much fuss coz I dont think it can stage spike or gimp, can it? Those first 2 frames though wow!

Also all MK needs to do to get Dair in those 2 frames is walk off the edge just as i reach the top of my UpB before I grab the edge coz that's Roughly where the vulnerability is.

Whenever I glidetoss with GaW that's me flicking the Cstick in a 2 frame window and I'm so ******** that I can't Nair OoS properly yet, but I can do this consistantly so it's not the hardest thing in the world to time something in 2 frames when you know the timing.

 

[Ledge_g2]

Quoted from UTDZac: "Having a 1 frame invulnerability window might be true but the opponent guessing when G&W will actually UpB is impossible. G&W has so many frames to wait and see what the opponent does. Them reacting in 14 frames (or less) is nearly impossible."

It's not just about getting the timing right, it's about predicting the exact time the GaW will UpB.

 

[Attila_]

i think splice's point is that mk can afford to guess wrong. others, on the other hand, will die if they mispredict.

 

[Splice]

Attila is right.

Besides Gary, you always hit me out of my UpB when I try to sweetspot the ledge.
Like that fact that this consistantly happens, does this not show to you that it's a problem?
And not once have I gimped you or stage spiked you or anything when you try to do this.

I either die or we both just end up where we started.
and 80% of the time against you and Earl I die. And it always happens at that part in the curve of the stage ...

And I'm pretty sure btw, that you can actually wait until I have UpB'd, and then react, You falling off the edge and using Dair I estimate would take 10-12 frames, and me UpBing at sweet spot range 14. So the only thing you have to predict is if I'm going to something instead of UpB which would probably kill me anyway unless it's a jump which you can probably Dair anyway, but if I'm at the spacing where I would sweetspot the edge Im pretty sure you can wait for the UpB and then react with your super fast MK attack. It's more reaction then prediction unless I'm in a safe positiong to make decisions, but normally after I've just used Nair or Uair off the edge to plank, I'm not in the best position (it would be a fine position if UpB had the invincibility though lol). You just have to be prepared to anticipate my jump, but otherwise you just react to the UpB. More about reaction than prediction.

 

[C~Dog]

Maybe you're just being outplayed on the edge, if they are able to predict when you UpB and punish you for it.

 

[Splice]

Maybe you're just being outplayed on the edge, if they are able to predict when you UpB and punish you for it.

Well If UpB didn't have the vulnerability frame it wouldn't matter, yet I have been continuously hit out of what used to be called "TOTALLY SAFE" and I have noticed this a while ago and told Gary and THUS I told you so bruz!

Spoiler

which was my point in the first place

And without such a totally safe option it really isn't worth it to play that kind of game offstage against MK for GaW anymore. Because the risk I am taking is death whereas until high %s MK isn't really taking much of a risk at all, and top of that he in fact has more freedom of choice and options then I do at that point so all I'm doing by planking against MK is putting myself in a disadvantageous position.

 

[tibs7]

Lol dude playing ledge games with mk is never ever safe. I don't know why you'd even try =/.
Buuuut gnw upb is still pretty ridiculous.

 

[Splice]

Lol dude playing ledge games with mk is never ever safe. I don't know why you'd even try =/.
Buuuut gnw upb is still pretty ridiculous.

ok i think people are misunderstanding

IF GAWs UPB DID NOT HAVE THIS VINCIBILITY FRAME
then I wouldn't really be playing ledge games with mk; I'd simply be safe.

That is why I used to try when it was thought that GaWs UpB sweetspot was incredibly safe.

I have stopped trying, and did not try against Gary at Robocop, because I decided that GaWs supposedly invincible UpB must somehow be punishable.

And now this thread has come up and confirmed my assumption.

GnW UpB is still one of the best UpBs but I would like some kind of horizontal moving recovery like Diddys sideB as that would be very helpful, and then GaWs recovery game would truly be ridiculous. At the moment it's just of a very high standard

 

[J-Birds]

Im quite surprised this wasnt noticed earlier ...
I will say its quite safe to do against most characters howeve.

 

[tibs7]

diddy side b gets destroyed if it's predicted =[, but yeah it's pretty **** .

Gnw planking is legit against everyone bar mk,possibly marth too.....

 

[Splice]

Nah it's totally legit against even Marth as long as you make sure you dont get spiked through the stage by characters like Marth and his Dair and also Dtilt can cause trouble and also Pits Dtilt.

GaW planking is legit against everyone but MK now.
Used to be thought legit against MK, but not anymore.

Although whilst it's legit it's not exactly useful in all MU's and is still beatable.
Like by chars using their Bair to stage spike me can work if I am not careful.
And I'd rather camp Snake than plank him lol.
Unless it's Attila and he walks up to the edge to try and kill me but I just get a bunch of Nairs.
But then he jumps off the stage and uses Up Air

Oh btw Jbirds, it was noticed earlier, like 2 months earlier, by me
coz of gary

 

[C~Dog]

I would like an UpB that isn't ****.

Well, except for the Shaya Technique of course, but everyone knows how broken THAT is.

 

[MTGod]

^What he said. Heel, Splicey

NINJA'D BY THE WORLD!!!! MY GAWD....

 

[tibs7]

Well when I say possibly marth it's only because marth can pressure you By jumping off and attacking and then get back reasonably safely with his fantastic upB.
Against this planking though diddy can ledge drop banana and if he times it right could potentially footstool -> upb I'll try it next time...

 

[MTGod]

If Lucas perfectly predicts and times a dair and the GaW player is both ******** and unlucky, and Mercury's orbit is altered by a giant asteroid causing it to crash into the sun in the same frame that GaW is using his UpB, he could have a 20% chance of hitting that vulnerability frame, causing the GaW to have to use another UpB back onto the ledge.

Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh

EDIT: My bad, 25%, since there's four hits. **** I'm bad at this game.

 

[Attila_]

Like by chars using their Bair to stage spike me can work if I am not careful.
And I'd rather camp Snake than plank him lol.
Unless it's Attila and he walks up to the edge to try and kill me but I just get a bunch of Nairs.
But then he jumps off the stage and uses Up Air

shhhhh

its one of my super secret ats

 

[Splice]

It's an amazing tactic Attila. It's the little things like that which just make you so much better than me at this game lol

Idk Tibs Marth has never tried that against me and I've never seen it done so I'm not sure. My Nair is such a beast planking move which helps a lot. But I see your point. Marth isn't a character where I choose to abuse planking anyway. Unless neccessary.

Now Diddy on the other hand... GaWs planking is so legit against Diddy. There really isn't much you can do, if you don't trick me or anything it's pretty smooth sailing for GaW haha. Catching your falling bananas with Nair is totally safe too. I need to learn to FF Nair at the right time so I hit you with the first hits but not the last and then I can perform an Fair after that and kill your Diddy. I've seen UTD Zac do it it's so sexy. I'm very bad at planking though Tibor so good luck finding something that'll beat me when I plank you at a % lead, I'm sure you will eventually <3

 

[xXArrowXx]

mk jumps down and tornados. now what.

 

[Attila_]

use your invincibility to hit him out of it.

 

[Splice]

No the invincibility from UpB won't beat Nado, the hitboxes just clash until my invincibility ends, at which point i get stuck into the nado.

A better Idea would be to just Uair the tornadoing MK until he is in free fall, at which point I can try to land a free Smash or Judgement, or a Fair for the kill at high %'s

Tornado is ****.

 

[Zxv]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmpcI9DMjh0&feature=sub

muhahahaha! Now G&W is utterly useless...!

My new goal in Smash: learning to consistantly SDI->tech stupid things that shouldn't even be techable.

 

[Zero]

GnW is low tier, just sdi everything

 

[Splice]

Haha, that's what Buff did to me with ROB consistantly.

Also Dsmash is one of GaWs less useful options out of Dthrow now anyway. Seeing as most people tech nowadays I have to mix it up more. Against Snake I would use Uthrow anyway or Dtilt out of Dthrow over Dsmash, but that's beside the point. Also note that if I take a step away and Dsmash I can still hit you if you don't tech but it will still hit you except with the tipper so you will go upwards and die earlier and not be able to tech If i remember to take a step away. lol.

Wait til I learn how to do the new Dthrow-->Dair Spike-->Whatever the hell I want

Zero you are bad. GaW is quite underrated. I still think he should be S tier.

 

[Zero]

I'm bad.

But GnW is worse!

 

[luke_atyeo]

Using MK as proof that something doesn't work is almost a logical fallacy.

sure, unless your talking about the metagame of melbourne.