I think we need a cp discussion thread

[Falconv1.0]

This weeks discussion is none other than the Prince of Ghey himself.



His tilts out range like everything we can use, his fair beats our aerial attacks, he's not a fun match up, anyone who says otherwise is a masochist. Marth is gay.

So with that in mind, lets figure out a way to cp that sum***** and kick his ***. Remember, characters and what stages those chars could do well on, no more off topic stuff about Kirby vs. Olimar. >_>

PREVIOUS DISCUSSION



There really wasn't much ground to cover here, so excuse a rather short summary. Metaknight beats Kirby at everything, but nothing in the match makes it an epic failtrain, so this is one of those matches where I think a Kirby main can make a choice to use a secondary or stick with good ol' Kirbz.

The characters who do well against MK are ones who really force him to approach and cause him to have trouble approaching. Snake and Falco are definitely good for the match, and Diddy seems to do well against him, unless all the Diddy mains doing well in tourneys are pulling wins out of their *****. You could go for an MK ditto but generally you'll be better off with Kirby if you know Kirby better.

 

[8BitRevolver]

so is this for finding chars that do well against kirby's cp, or is it for finding strats to help beat em with kirby?

 

[Lord Viper]

We do need more discussion on this, since the other threads like this kind of died due to the Topic Creater not updating there post.

You list of characters is good, though I'm not too sure about Marth being a good Counter Pick against projectile specialist, but that's just my option. I'll place Pit in that list along with ROB as well. I kind of wish Ness was a good Counter Pick for Kirby, but he does bad fighting Marth and Mr Game & Watch... maybe Lucario as well. I guess I'm one of a few that picks Ness in tourneys as a counter pick for Donkey Kong, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Zelda, ROB, Pikachu, or (lol) Snake, (I might be the only person who think's this, lol).

But that's just the beginning, hopfully this thread will be active as the others are not.

 

[Falconv1.0]

The people I listed are the people Kirby has TROUBLE against. (And there are more) This is where we'll find who beats them. The list of chars aren't cp's, trhey are who we need to find cp's for.

I'm sticking to my belief that Snake covers Kirby really well.

 

[NIN]

am i the only who has a really tough time against zeldas? anyways, i dont think mk is that tough of a matchup for kirby (relative to what others have), but everyone else on the list are pretty tough for kirby

i often pick pit when put up against them but i could see snake also being a great second pick to cover kirbys weaknesses

 

[Lord Viper]

Oh, I understand now, to tell you the truth, I always don't read the first post all the way. =P

Don't forget to put ROB, Zelda, and Samus up there, those to are Kirby's bad match up as well. As for the list of chracters you mention:

-Meta Knight's case, I would stay with Kirby if you know how dodge most of Meta Knight's attacks with Kirby.

-Snake's case, your counter pick should be King Dedede, Pikachu since they have good recovery like Kirby, they are easier to handle than the other few.

-Marth's case, I need to look more into that, I don't face enough good Marth mains, I only know two and they don't live in walking distances.

-Ice Climbers' case, Ike is a good counter pick, along with Zero Suit Samus, (maybe Samus as well), I'm testing if Ness is a good counter pick for them.

-Mr. Game & Watch's case, Marth and Snake is pretty good fighting him though Snake is a better counter pick, maybe Diddy Kong... I have to look more into it.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

-Ice Climbers' case, Ike is a good counter pick, along with Zero Suit Samus, (maybe Samus as well), I'm testing if Ness is a good counter pick for them.

Wat?

Try Meta or ROB, sweetie.


I've been browsing a certain site too much. When I saw CP.... lol nevermind... XD

 

[Blank Mauser]

am i the only who has a really tough time against zeldas? anyways, i dont think mk is that tough of a matchup for kirby (relative to what others have), but everyone else on the list are pretty tough for kirby

i often pick pit when put up against them but i could see snake also being a great second pick to cover kirbys weaknesses

Nah, Zelda is pretty tough for me too. If they know how to use Din's fire and Usmash right.

 

[Falconv1.0]

lol anyone who wants to use Kirby vs MK when you can use Snake is either really dedicated to just Kirby or insane. MK has every advantage vs. Kirby.

 

[Lord Viper]

Wat?

Try Meta or ROB, sweetie.

ROB is a better pick, I just put the character's that I thought of when I was playing Ice Climbers and faced a good Ike main, and I couldn't even grab him let alone do many attacks. I only played ROB a few times to say his name out loud, I guess that's why. What a guy got to do to say 100% good at info. XD

lol anyone who wants to use Kirby vs MK when you can use Snake is either really dedicated to just Kirby or insane. MK has every advantage vs. Kirby.

Kirby's easier to fight Meta Knight with than Snake. Snake you have to think because a lot of his attacks are not very effective when fighting Meta Knight, you have to depend mostly on strategies, etc. But no john's right? =P

 

[Delta Z]

Try Meta or ROB, sweetie.

Actually, I think I see where he's going with that. Ike can out-range almost all of the ICs' attacks.

 

[Falconv1.0]

ROB is a better pick, I just put the character's that I thought of when I was playing Ice Climbers and faced a good Ike main, and I couldn't even grab him let alone do many attacks. I only played ROB a few times to say his name out loud, I guess that's why. What a guy got to do to say 100% good at info. XD



Kirby's easier to fight Meta Knight with than Snake. Snake you have to think because a lot of his attacks are not very effective when fighting Meta Knight, you have to depend mostly on strategies, etc. But no john's right? =P

No, wrong, every good MK will tell you Snake is a much harder beast to fight than Kirby. Snake actually has advantages on MK. Kirby has NONE.

 

[Asdioh]

MK
Snake
Marth
IC's
G&W

First of all, if you're way more comfortable with Kirby than with other characters, just stick with him.

For MK, Marth, and G&W, Snake is probably a good choice I guess.

For Ice Climbers, just learn the matchup and don't get grabbed, I still don't believe Kirby has a disadvantage.

For Snake... I don't know. Whatever you're good with and Snake is "bad" against, even though Snake is broken and doesn't die >_> though I guess Falco/D3 or whatever are good choices.

You don't really need to CP against G&W if you learn the matchup...it's difficult, but not unwinnable by any means. If I can beat lame G&Ws on laggy wifi, surely you can do it offline when it's harder to accidentally run into his overpowered smashes.

Don't forget to put ROB, Zelda, and Samus up there, those to are Kirby's bad match up as well.

ROB is another one I don't believe is too hard. Just learn this matchup as well...definitely winnable, I even think it is neutral. What characters is ROB bad against, in case you really can't do it with Kirby? Probably Snake, right? Because Snake beats pretty much everyone?

Zelda, I'm not sure. I don't have enough experience against her, and I don't know what she has trouble against.

Is Samus seriously at an advantage over Kirby? ... I guess I can see it, I just need to play good Samus players.

I've been browsing a certain site too much. When I saw CP.... lol nevermind... XD

But now I'm curious! Tell me!

No, wrong, every good MK will tell you Snake is a much harder beast to fight than Kirby. Snake actually has advantages on MK. Kirby has NONE except fsmash lolol.

fixed XD

 

[xXTACXx]

-Ice Climbers' case, Ike is a good counter pick, along with Zero Suit Samus, (maybe Samus as well), I'm testing if Ness is a good counter pick for them.

I dont know why you would change your character isnt this the kirby boards, stick with your main and find a way around it, kirby has a lot of jumps so use them to your advantage on not getting grabbed. Kirby is the easiest character in the game to Bthrow Cg with ics. Samus is not very good against ics its 40-60 in ics favor. The best way to beat a ICs is with ICs itself, no CGs or projectiles and all combat skill.

Is Samus seriously at an advantage over Kirby? ... I guess I can see it, I just need to play good Samus players.

its about 50/50 matchup offline online kirby actually has a slight advantage in the matchup because of samus not being able to time missiles right or Zairs and kirby having to ability to get under samus so easy. I am getting a lan adapter soon so that will prvent a lot of lag hopefully because i know me and you have a lot of BL in our matchs. When i get one ill be more thanhappy to face you often.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I dont know why you would change your character isnt this the kirby boards, stick with your main and find a way around it

Do you not ****ing understand the idea of a counter pick? Get out of this topic. Kirby isn't MK (and even he does better with a secondary) and actually has really bad match ups and there's no reason when you are cp'ing to stick with Kirby against a bad match.



Seriously what the ****. This is a thread about what chars are good to cp with Kirby, not about match ups for Kirby himself, we already have a topic for that.


Viper you need to start debating facts. You say use Ike against IC's because an Ike owned you. =/ (Not to say you're right or wrong, I'd just like to see some real facts put on the table.)

@Asidoh-Anyone without a good projectile or the like (DDD can cg Snake and spam side b) is pretty much ****ed or at the least at a disadvantage.

 

[Delta Z]

Snake actually has advantages on MK. Kirby has NONE.

More usable kill moves. O RLY?

Actually, the big thing Kirby has on Metaknight is how he cancels out a lot of MK's advantages. Kirby is hard to gimp, and can fight offstage just like MK can. He doesn't have to worry as much about being comboed because of his floatiness (on the other hand Metaknight is harder than average to combo).

 

[A1lion835]

Hm... the people Kirby seems to have trouble with are people with awesomerific projectiles and/or extreme cheapness. TL, maybe? He is a master of projectiles and more similar game to kirby than either Link or YLink (though YLink doesn't really matter). Or maybe Pit... even more similar, with the arguably best projectile in the game and a reflector.

 

[Falconv1.0]

More usable kill moves. O RLY?

Actually, the big thing Kirby has on Metaknight is how he cancels out a lot of MK's advantages. Kirby is hard to gimp, and can fight offstage just like MK can. He doesn't have to worry as much about being comboed because of his floatiness (on the other hand Metaknight is harder than average to combo).

Snake lives longer, can camp, and has his epic range. I didn't say he has more usable moves I said he has an advantage, dont put words in my mouth, it's insulting.

And what in hell are with the lulz worthy arguments? I dont give a **** if Kirby wont be gimped or combo'd if he cant gimp MK/SPACE ANYTHING FOR SHIIIIIT. MK shuts Kirby down, you cant ****ing dispute this.

MK beats Kirby at spacing, killing, approaching, spacing, spacing, and lets not forget spacing.

For the last time. THIS. IS. A. CP THREAD. Stop talking MK vs Kirby, start talking about who beats him.

I mean it, if you cant accept that we arent talking about Kirby vs *char here*, LEAVE.


(BTW, no, Pit's arrow is not arguably the best, the SBR covered this. You'll get more hits with nades, Dees, arrows, etc. than arrows.)

 

[Lord Viper]

No, wrong, every good MK will tell you Snake is a much harder beast to fight than Kirby. Snake actually has advantages on MK. Kirby has NONE.

I wouldn't say none just yet, Kirby has more defense game than some may know. Though to fight Meta Knight, Kirby has to relay on that to get a stock from him. I agree that Snake has more to offer when fighting Meta Knight than Kirby, as for me, I can't really say much about this case because I don't play Snake, Percon can answer this better.

ROB is another one I don't believe is too hard. Just learn this matchup as well...definitely winnable, I even think it is neutral. What characters is ROB bad against, in case you really can't do it with Kirby? Probably Snake, right? Because Snake beats pretty much everyone?

Zelda, I'm not sure. I don't have enough experience against her, and I don't know what she has trouble against.

Is Samus seriously at an advantage over Kirby? ... I guess I can see it, I just need to play good Samus players.

ROB I think still has an advange, but it might be close to even... kind of like a Kirby user facing Lucario, I put ROB on the floor because he's hard to get rid of, and his hit box on a lot of attacks are more than enough to give Kirby a hard time. Maybe it's just me.

As for Zelda, I will say yes, that is a disadvantage. Zelda's Smash attacks along with her Side-B and U-Tilt is bad to fight, especially on an online fight, (some people say you'll be lucky to get a single KO online, but that's just absurd, lol). Of course, you can DI out of her Smash attacks, but that was easy in Melee, in Brawl it's harder to escape from her F-Smash, her U-Smash you'll have a better chance escaping it. Mr. Game & Watch is a great counter pick for Zelda.

Samus might be even by now, though I still think her Z-Air > Basic-B is a threat then again, I haven't face a good Samus main in month's, my new's about this is old I suppose.

Viper you need to start debating facts. You say use Ike against IC's because an Ike owned you. =/ (Not to say you're right or wrong, I'd just like to see some real facts put on the table.)

That was a bad example wasn't it? It might be said before, Ike has a huge range over Ice Climbers and Jab Cancel make's it hard for Ike to get Grabed. But I'll take *P*L*U*R* word for it, ROB for good counter pick for Ice Climbers.

 

[Percon]

Snake does much better against MK than Kirby. Snake does well in all the matchups where Kirby has trouble because of big disjoints (MK, Marth, GAW) and does not bad vs ICs and ROB either, though conveniently enough MK beats those two.

I play Kirby, Snake, and DDD and that covers most matchups, except for specific playing styles with certain characters, which I need to work on as a player.

 

[fromundaman]

Throwing this out there:

-ROB is NOT at a disadvantage against Snake. ROB can easily outcamp Snake (My friend was actually shooting grenades as Snake threw them, blowing up Snake. Kind of funny.), survives a lot longer than most, though Snake has such ridiculous killing power that that's not a huge advantage. His Gyro and laser can stop Snakedash approaches, as can his aerials if timed correctly.
Offstage, ROB can also combo Snake very easily, and a lot of his aerials will knock Snake out of his cypher.
Anyway, I don't play either character myself, but from what I've seen, it seems that ROB has the advantage in that matchup.

Against ROB I'd suggest Falco. I personally can't stand him, but Iskascribble's brother plays him and it fares well against ROB since the lasers and reflector make ROB approach, and generally speaking, the match is offto a bad start when ROB has to approach.

Pikachu and Pit would probably do Okay against ROB too, and I seem to have had some success with my Mario.



Anyway, enough about ROB.
What exactly does Ike have against ICs? It seems like I get grabbed every time I do an aerial, either during the landing lag, or shieldgrabbed during a Nai, and jab seems to get owned by blizzard.


For Marth I would think anyone with a decent spammable projectile (Pit, Snake, Falco, D3, Pikachu) could do all right, but I don't know.


For MK you're probably best going Diddy or Snake, though I personally like using Yoshi as well.


For Snake, I'd suggest ROB, Pikachu, Ganon (lol jk), and uhhh.... well ****, I don't really know... maybe ZSS? (Or even Ness?!?)

 

[Falconv1.0]

Ok, to make this more organized, I'mmah set which character we discuss.

First character iiiiiiiiss

Metaknight. Dont act surprised.

(Updating op, go nuts)

 

[Asdioh]

Meta Knight has no counters.

According to everyone.

Kirby doesn't do well, against him, but he does get less ****ED UP THE *** than most other characters, so stick with Kirby if he is by far your best character.

Snake would be next, spam grenades and tilts and be a super nub and you'll do well. MK gimps Snake pretty easily with Shuttle Loop though, mirite?

My last tourney, it was Anther vs Judged (MK) in the finals. Everyone knows Anther mains Pikachu.

But he didn't use Pikachu in the finals at all. He went Sonic vs ROB (won), Sonic vs MK (lost), Lucario vs MK (won), and Fox vs MK (won).

So here's how to beat MK:
1. get as good as Anther
2. use Fox/Lucario?!?!

I actually have heard that Fox could be a potential MK counter. Don't know about Lucario...but what character DOESN'T hate Lucario's Aura Sphere and Fsmash, and possibly Dair?

 

[DFat2]

Snake does much better against MK than Kirby. Snake does well in all the matchups where Kirby has trouble because of big disjoints (MK, Marth, GAW) and does not bad vs ICs and ROB either, though conveniently enough MK beats those two.

I play Kirby, Snake, and DDD and that covers most matchups, except for specific playing styles with certain characters, which I need to work on as a player.

There's not much more to say. I main Kirby and Second Snake because of MetaKnight, Game and Watch and Marth.

Snake could be considered the best CP for a Kirby mainer in the sense that he covers his bad match ups. He also has the potential of being a tournament level character (duh), so you should always have room for improvement, but the down side is that you (should) have to work hard to maintain them both high.

 

[8BitRevolver]

yea i would probably say snake is best for mk
falco also is up there but hes easily gimped

what do you guy think about dk vs mk
he can out space him pretty well on some moves and kills extremely well

 

[A1lion835]

I secondary TL. He's really good at the match-ups that I hate Marth. But I'm still getting him down; I sort of abandoned him a little while back.

 

[Falconv1.0]

If Falco gets the cg early and ledge stalling is banned, easy 60/40 for him. If 'planking' is allowed, you are ****ed. Snake is pretty easy to pick up and is another one of MK's bad match ups, although it's arguable how bad.


(I honestly dont blame Plank for using ledgestalling against Falco but that still doesn't make it an less gay.)

 

[fromundaman]

You know, the obvious one would be to pull MK out and turn it into a ditto, but I've noticed Kirby isn't all that bad against MK. I honestly do better in Kirby vs MK than MK dittos, and my MK isn't very much worse than my Kirby.

Other than that, Diddy or Snake are good.

(Oh, and I know I'm jumping ahead, but who would do well against Marth (other than MK and Snake, as I can't play Snake very well and don't like pulling out MK.)?)

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

Oh, I understand now, to tell you the truth, I always don't read the first post all the way. =P

Don't forget to put ROB, Zelda, and Samus up there, those to are Kirby's bad match up as well. As for the list of chracters you mention:

-Meta Knight's case, I would stay with Kirby if you know how dodge most of Meta Knight's attacks with Kirby.

-Snake's case, your counter pick should be King Dedede, Pikachu since they have good recovery like Kirby, they are easier to handle than the other few.

-Marth's case, I need to look more into that, I don't face enough good Marth mains, I only know two and they don't live in walking distances.

-Ice Climbers' case, Ike is a good counter pick, along with Zero Suit Samus, (maybe Samus as well), I'm testing if Ness is a good counter pick for them.

-Mr. Game & Watch's case, Marth and Snake is pretty good fighting him though Snake is a better counter pick, maybe Diddy Kong... I have to look more into it.

I would agree with most of that stuff, but ROB is a better cp for Ice Climbers.

And for Marth, I would say DK, ROB, Snake, or DDD seeing as they have slight advantages, or is even with Marth.

 

[professor mgw]

zelda is gay!

am i the only who has a really tough time against zeldas? anyways, i dont think mk is that tough of a matchup for kirby (relative to what others have), but everyone else on the list are pretty tough for kirby

i often pick pit when put up against them but i could see snake also being a great second pick to cover kirbys weaknesses

yo i know wat u mean when u have truble wit zelda. she can stay in da same place and still win da match!

 

[professor mgw]

rob olimar and game&watch r bad match ups 4 kirby.

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

rob olimar and game&watch r bad match ups 4 kirby.

Uhh...actually, Kirby has a 60-40 Advantage over Olimar....

 

[Asdioh]

Uhh...actually, Kirby has a 60-40 Advantage over Olimar....

My opinion: Kirby has like a 40-60 (or higher?!) disadvantage to Olimar onstage.

Kirby has like an 80-20 (or higher?!) advantage over Olimar offstage.

XD

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

My opinion: Kirby has like a 40-60 (or higher?!) disadvantage to Olimar onstage.

Kirby has like an 80-20 (or higher?!) advantage over Olimar offstage.

XD

lol, but the matchup thread said that Kirby has a 60-40 advantage over Olimar....or is it lies....=/

Offstage one is true though, XD

 

[Falconv1.0]

MK dittos are boring.

And lol@ the professor mgw. Just lol

 

[Dabuz]

i main both, trust me, kirby>olimar

 

[feardragon64]

MK dittos are boring.

And lol@ the professor mgw. Just lol

Kirby dittos are fun imo.

It's like....one giant space war....but I'm also a Marth player so spacing is like the closest thing to sex for me in smash.....
.....

 

[Falconv1.0]

Stop going off topic. We aren't discussing Kirby dittos or Kirby vs Olimar. >_>

 

[fromundaman]

I'm still asking what CP would work well against Marth.

My Shiek and ZSS's seems to be doing okay, but I think that's more that my friend isn't too experienced at Marth and doesn't know the matchups with those two more than anything.
I know MK works too, but I dunno, I don't particularly enjoy playing my MK.

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

I'm still asking what CP would work well against Marth.

My Shiek and ZSS's seems to be doing okay, but I think that's more that my friend isn't too experienced at Marth and doesn't know the matchups with those two more than anything.
I know MK works too, but I dunno, I don't particularly enjoy playing my MK.

The best cps against Marth would be MK (duh), Snake, ROB, DK, and DDD.