I mean you can't tell me the japanese aren't better in everyway

[Mr.Snifflez]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jJi6C4gTt8A

WTF westerners can stand up to japanese people in smash gimme a freaking break you guys are garbage(this said as inoffensively as possible) but i mean i watch day in and day out and i do mean day in and day out all of the videos on all is brawl, the forums, and youtube and i mean when i view them side to side japanese people are...just way ahead in speed, Strategy and techs.

EDIT: lmfao! i didnt even see these
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HEm-rQHRtvQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=T8WZySNYqS4-Marios bair to Uair never seen it used period.

P.S ANYONE who has any counter say towards this please do so with points and videos going hand and hand...I hate when internet kids talk and have no.......credibility with what they say...

 

[Zombieoficer]

I was reminded of Melee for a second there...

 

[Problem2]

We were too busy discussing what could should have been during the first month of Brawl instead of what can be.

 

[Blarfenzo]

They aren't better at being in the western hemisphere! HA!
Proof?
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/WaheedBlarfenzo/Map.jpg

 

[White Pikmin]

"Westeners can stand up to the japaneese"

you saying that sentence threw me off, can you edit can to can't?

P.S Japan had more time to play brawl

 

[Problem2]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sAEJCt6vmIU

imo, we don't play horribly slow at all. We just shield and dodge more. Btw, those japanese matches took forever to finish.

 

[-Ran]

So spamming the same moves over and over again and jumping around like a rabbit on crack makes them better than US players? The main difference is that in the US we stay grounded, so that we can shield Grab and punish with the full arsenal that our characters have. From the Japanese matches I've seen, the tend to be aggressive, forgoing defense for offensive speed, yet they tend to spam the same moves [the fastest] over and over again.

They may gain some speed, [marginal] but they lose the ability to counter flat footed opponents. More or less, in the US we make our opponents come to us, in Japan they tend to meet together, regardless of percent.

 

[acv]

they play with advanced strategies and fast gameplay.

we play with chaingrabs and infinites that are better and easier to do and are more effective in any way.

on other words,they look better,we are better.

 

[saberhof]

we haz mindgames, over there they just have speed....

 

[Speedsk8er]

Hot stuff.

10 charizards

 

[momochuu]

I'm not gonna lie, that's an insane Diddy, but there were so many times when he could done a finishing blow and didn't take the chance.

 

[lethminite]

I could be wrong, but it's not a matter of 'better' or 'worse'.
US and JPN are playing in 2 different metagames, in jpn, they seem to forgo def for off. i don't know if it's a good strategy or not. as has been said, this makes theirs look better, however, you would need to have a international tournament to see who's metagame is of a higher class. Even then, if europe makes a metagame of their own, would any international tournaments end up like scissor/paper/rock, and be euro>US>jpn>euro?
again i can't say.

you may see weaknesses in their game, but how many do they see in yours?

 

[Hughalicous]

Does anyone know whether these people have their own "Smashboards" that we can visit? I assume we could translate some of it, and see what they say about brawl. Has anyone done this yet?

 

[Yuna]

What's impressive about that match? Seriously, what's impressive about it, 'cause I can't see it. The fact that they don't suck?

I mean, Pikachu friggin' uses Up B as an approach/attack!

The Zentore vs. Nyosuke Fox vs. Falco vid has already been debunked as full of gaping holes I could destroy them through. Mario using Bair to Uair? You've never seen it and then you see someone use it, thus it must be godly and they must be godly? Umm... yeah.

 

[Darkurai]

I have to be honest, when I was watching the Diddy vs. Pikachu one, I thought "This could be a spectator match if it was shorter and they were a little slower due to lag affecting their reaction time. It's certainly spammy enough."

 

[Vyse]

...I hate when internet kids talk and have no.......credibility with what they say...

Heh.

on other words,they look better,we are better.

we haz mindgames, over there they just have speed....

My thoughts in a nutshell. I am not one to doubt that America has the best Metagame at the moment. In fact, this topic will end in a similar fashion to ThaRoy's 'Speed Game' thread I think.

However, you would need to have a international tournament to see who's metagame is of a higher class.

And I'm sure that when America first clashes with Japan, it's something we'll all be looking forward to.

 

[err]

funny how reckless they are in Brawl... anyone remember how defensive the japanese were in melee?

(double jump ftw)

 

[edddddie]

What's impressive about that match? Seriously, what's impressive about it, 'cause I can't see it. The fact that they don't suck?

I mean, Pikachu friggin' uses Up B as an approach/attack!

The Zentore vs. Nyosuke Fox vs. Falco vid has already been debunked as full of gaping holes I could destroy them through. Mario using Bair to Uair? You've never seen it and then you see someone use it, thus it must be godly and they must be godly? Umm... yeah.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Pikachu's QAC is one of the most effective approaches. Sometime Yuna, you try to sound like you know what you're talking about but you just come off as a douche. If you don't believe me, go watch Hylian's Pikachu. Or Anther's.

EDIT: I've seen all these vids before, and while I think there's obviously something wrong with the Zentore/Nyosuke stuff, Yonezumi and Gano are obviously much better players. They don't have the gaping defensive holes that Zentore and Nyosuke have, but are still able to stay aggressive at time and camp their projectiles until they have an opportunity to approach. Yuna, I think you're just automatically biased against Japanese players because of the initial videos, but Yonezumi/Gano are much more skilled players.

Also, on Mario, that Bair to Uair approach takes a lot of handspeed and is difficult to perform. I saw on the Mario boards they were trying to figure out how to do it, and it's not easy. Zentore and Nyosuke, though they don't play smart, are obviously highly technically proficient.

 

[BrawlBro]

if theres ever a japan vs america tourney i know who im putting my money on




(Japan)


btw that diddy was effing sweet, he controls the bannanas so well

 

[Jack Kieser]

I think it's just a difference in philosophy. From the Japanese videos I've seen, I can't imagine these guys taking themselves as seriously as we do in the States. I'm sure they are serious about what they do, but I'm also sure they play (even competitive) matches more for a love of the game than to win at any cost or for cash prizes; you can't play (what we consider to be) with reckless abandon and expect to win a tournament.

Or maybe you can... over there. I'm sure the US would own Japan, but only because they would play with different motivations: they would play the game they enjoy playing, we would play a terribly boring match just so we could say we won.

 

[kamekasu]

I think it's just a difference in philosophy. From the Japanese videos I've seen, I can't imagine these guys taking themselves as seriously as we do in the States. I'm sure they are serious about what they do, but I'm also sure they play (even competitive) matches more for a love of the game than to win at any cost or for cash prizes; you can't play (what we consider to be) with reckless abandon and expect to win a tournament.

Or maybe you can... over there. I'm sure the US would own Japan, but only because they would play with different motivations: they would play the game they enjoy playing, we would play a terribly boring match just so we could say we won.

Please stop making generalizations.

These videos that people are so critical of (i.e. Zentore/Nyosuke) are not representative of all of Japan's play. Just wait for Ketubato to start and you can see more evidence of how real Japanese pros play.

This 'playing for fun' idea you have made up is false. The video posted in this thread (Pikachu VS Diddy) was recorded in preparation for Ketubato, one of the most important Smash Bros. tournaments in Japan.

Yonezumi and Gano are highly skilled players. You insult them assuming they'll never read this because they live in Japan, but Yone actually visits this board sometimes. While neither of them are the top in Japan, they play often with some of the best, like CaptainJack, Masashi, and Aniki. They would without a doubt perform well in American tournaments.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Please stop making generalizations.

These videos that people are so amazed by are not representative of all of Japan's play. Just wait for Ketubato to start and you can see how real Japanese pros play.

I'm not making 'generalizations'; if you'd have paid attention while reading my post, you'd have known that. I said, 'From the Japanese videos I've seen...', and I said it for a reason: because the entire basis of my opinion is based off of what limited information I had access to.

 

[kamekasu]

I'm not making 'generalizations'; if you'd have paid attention while reading my post, you'd have known that. I said, 'From the Japanese videos I've seen...', and I said it for a reason: because the entire basis of my opinion is based off of what limited information I had access to.

Really? I guess I was thrown off by "I'm sure the US would own Japan."

 

[Adapt]

btw that diddy was effing sweet, he controls the bannanas so well

I liked the pikachu more than the diddy. The diddy did nothing special, have you seen Nanerz play? His banana play is superior to what I saw in that vid

the well timed throw>upB>downB was a pretty sweet tactic

 

[Ban3]

wasnt there a Japan vs America thread before?

 

[Jack Kieser]

Really? I guess I was thrown off by "I'm sure the US would own Japan."

*facepalm* Yes. From what I have seen, I'm sure the US would own Japan. If there is more relevant data/videos/whatever, I'll be glad to change my opinion upon reviewing it.

 

[kamekasu]

*facepalm* Yes. From what I have seen, I'm sure the US would own Japan. If there is more relevant data/videos/whatever, I'll be glad to change my opinion upon reviewing it.

No, from what you've seen you're sure US pros would own the people in these videos. It is a generalization to say that the people in these videos represent all of Japan.

http://www.youtube.com/user/queensaki
http://www.youtube.com/user/godSSBB

 

[Jack Kieser]

It's a generalization to say any video is representative of Japan; it's impossible to refrain from making any kind of generalization when you're trying to classify an entire country's worth of people. According to your logic, what right do we have to say the videos you posted are representative of pro Japan Smash? They could only be representative of themselves, so you're making just as many generalizations as the rest of us.

If we all waited to reserve judgment until ALL relevant data is accumulated, we'd never make judgments; there's always something relevant that we've missed. So, we make a call based on what we know, and stay open to new information in the future.

 

[25%Cotton]

what matters to me is that their playstyle is a lot more aggressive. i hate how high competitive play in brawl is all about shielding and dodging. it saps all the fun (for me, at least). i know it gets me killed a lot, but i like to play very offensively, and the way they play makes me very happy (although they COULD spam a bit less :D)

 

[thepinkpoo]

It's a generalization to say any video is representative of Japan; it's impossible to refrain from making any kind of generalization when you're trying to classify an entire country's worth of people. According to your logic, what right do we have to say the videos you posted are representative of pro Japan Smash? They could only be representative of themselves, so you're making just as many generalizations as the rest of us.

If we all waited to reserve judgment until ALL relevant data is accumulated, we'd never make judgments; there's always something relevant that we've missed. So, we make a call based on what we know, and stay open to new information in the future.

lawl that's just dumb
you can't just say us > japan based on videos of four people
you can say us pros > the four people and then it would make sense
i don't see how he made a generalization

 

[BentoBox]

Stop posting yuna.

 

[Yuna]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Pikachu's QAC is one of the most effective approaches. Sometime Yuna, you try to sound like you know what you're talking about but you just come off as a douche. If you don't believe me, go watch Hylian's Pikachu. Or Anther's.

Only if you do it right... which Pikachu didn't do some of the times.

EDIT: I've seen all these vids before, and while I think there's obviously something wrong with the Zentore/Nyosuke stuff, Yonezumi and Gano are obviously much better players. They don't have the gaping defensive holes that Zentore and Nyosuke have, but are still able to stay aggressive at time and camp their projectiles until they have an opportunity to approach. Yuna, I think you're just automatically biased against Japanese players because of the initial videos, but Yonezumi/Gano are much more skilled players.

I watched the first half of that vid. There was nothing inherently wrong with it (note how I only said "What's so impressive about this video? That they didn't suck?"). There was nothing inherently brilliant there that would prove that Japanese players are in any way better than non-Japanese players either.

It's just a video of two good players. Wow. It's not like we haven't seen those before. It's like if some, pardon my German, n00b sees a video of two players who do not suck who play aggresively, they immediately go "Wow! Amazing!" no matter if they're really not that different from others or even if they're playing kinda badly (the aforementioned Zentore/Nyosuke vids).

I'm so sick and tired of this. There's nothing wrong with the Yonezumi vs. Gano video (even though I did criticize the botched QACs). But there's really nothing "Ouh! Never before-seen goodness!" about them, either. And I've seen better Pikachus and Diddies (who aren't Japanese).

Also, on Mario, that Bair to Uair approach takes a lot of handspeed and is difficult to perform. I saw on the Mario boards they were trying to figure out how to do it, and it's not easy. Zentore and Nyosuke, though they don't play smart, are obviously highly technically proficient.

Still, there's nothing impressive about this at all for those of us who were around for Melee's glory days and who play other fighters. It's just, you know, timing and technical ability. And as we all know, technical skill is not the most pivotal part of Competitive fighting games, "mindgames" is far more important.

what matters to me is that their playstyle is a lot more aggressive. i hate how high competitive play in brawl is all about shielding and dodging. it saps all the fun (for me, at least). i know it gets me killed a lot, but i like to play very offensively, and the way they play makes me very happy (although they COULD spam a bit less :D)

Blame the game that's badly programmed. And, really, who's playing the game "right"? The people who play more defensively or the ones who are playing more aggresively and leaving more holes?

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

.....This isn't going to end well isn't it?


And wasn't this topic already done on the Tactical disscussion boards?

 

[Yuna]

.....This isn't going to end well isn't it?

Nothing on Smashboards ever does.

And wasn't this topic already done on the Tactical disscussion boards?

How long have you been on Smashboards? Everything has to be done at least thrice and at least on two different boards on Smashboards.

 

[Aleol]

There's no true way to play a fighting game "right." ( don't argue that it's a party game. It's inherently a fighting game, despite being a party game) Fighting games give infinite room to improvise, and do what it takes to win. You can't play a game like this Right.

 

[PCHU]

The Fox vs. Falco thing had me convinced that I sucked...
But then, I thought "Wait a second. I can spotdodge half of this crap.".
When I saw their constant and unnecessary short hopping, I saw that they left themselves all too open.
Sure, it makes you look better, but I could've easily slipped in a few nairs.
I main Fox, so that's what I think.

 

[Xyro77]

japanese have never and will never be better than USA in smash.

 

[err]

yea cos we seem to have way more time to devote to this ****

 

[Kazuya]

They're good, because the ***'s fight in the sense of 'whoever attacks more will win' whilst the U.S. are more cautious, some wait for their opponents to come to them, whilst others chase them.

The difference is, when a *** players got 100% he will STILL attack as if his percentage is only 0%.
Whilst U.S players will go on the Defensive and try and get a few hits in here an there when their opponents make themselves vunerable.
European players (I've played many) just camp. Camp all the time.

Overall i say the U.S. metagame is more sensible, attack when you've got a low percentage, defend when its high.

The ****, leave themselves open to demolishment against a good Camper.

Whilst the E.U's just stand and wait for their opponent to make a move, then dodge wildly and try and sneak an attack here and there.

I'm British, but my play style is more or less the same as the U.S's.

 

[Yuna]

Whilst the E.U's just stand and wait for their opponent to make a move, then dodge wildly and try and sneak an attack here and there.

I'm British, but my play style is more or less the same as the U.S's.

Some characters have a good approach, others do not. Show me a Meta-Knight who camps. As Pit, I'll camp because his arrows are just asking for me to camp. As Zelda, I'll throw out a lot of Din's Fire because it's just too good. As Toon Link, I'll camp because his projectiles are a frightening force to be reckoned with.

As Marth and Ike? Not so much.