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I am the most brilliant Zelda player you will ever meet

RyokoYaksa

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 25, 2001
Messages
5,056
Location
Philadelphia, USA
I have vision that you lack.

Anyone who disagrees with my judgements, will squander in their games.

My advice is greater than all others.

And most importantly, my Zelda style is also greater than all others.

If you have a question, I likely have the answer.

/ego tripping

So go ahead and ask.
 

DiasFlac

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
442
Location
Maryland (East Coast)
I have vision that you lack.

Anyone who disagrees with my judgements, will squander in their games.

My advice is greater than all others.

And most importantly, my Zelda style is also greater than all others.

If you have a question, I likely have the answer.

/ego tripping

So go ahead and ask.
Hi Good to see you. Think you can offer advice on my Zelda gameplay? I know I need to stop killing myself when it comes to getting back to the cliff. x.x (I tend to warp wrongly and end up dying from it)

http://www.youtube.com/user/Dias4Flac

Any advice would be helpful!
 

Habanero Pepper

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
192
Location
Reidsville, NC
What is her most viable kill move and at what percentages does it kill each character(with perfect DI)?

Sorry if that's a bit broad. But it's definately a good place to start and I have been wondering about this for a while.
 

C-Dizzle

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
120
Location
Huntington, WV
*bows * All Hail the ZELDA MASTAH!???


(whats GOING ON! i came to see this cuz it caught my attetion, then i see *ALL HAIL RYOKO*
and i got kinda scared)
 

RyokoYaksa

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 25, 2001
Messages
5,056
Location
Philadelphia, USA
What is her most viable kill move and at what percentages does it kill each character(with perfect DI)?
Zelda's most viable KO moves entirely depend on where you and your target are on the stage. There are many factors beyond that, such as:

*Is the move at full power? If not, then you might want to think twice before failing to KO with it and still weakening it further.
*Will they be able to recover from this? (if they can't, then there's no reason to be picky about outright KOs)
*Are they good at Smash DI? :urg:
*Can you hit with the move to begin with?

If you really want one answer though, then it's Uair. This almost always sends people skyward to their deaths with only 90 damage or less. It's a disjointed hitbox with good range, but the hit window is very brief, and the move itself is slow, so people will dodge it like herpes. You'll have to trick people into it. After Uair, sweetspotted kicks are the next best thing, although those are difficult to land, too.

Since the "best" KO move you can use will always be context sensitive, you'd do best to look at how all of your attacks send even with DI. There are even times when Ftilt and Utilt are your best bet at KOing your opponent, due to their angles and reliable, single-hit nature.

And since PwnyRide popped in, I feel that it's appropriate to mention that Zelda's "****" are not KO moves, and I'm still laughing about it.

Oh come on. I'm a Zelda main myself, and i hate comments like this.

We still have -

U-tilt
F-tilt
D-tilt
N-nair (more or less)
F-air
B-air
Neutral B - Naryus Love
Forward B -Din's fire (WHICH IS AMAZING NOW)
Up B - Farore's Wind (Re-appearing damage!!)

What has been made useless (situational) by DI -
F-smash
U-smash

Not to mention the **** are kill moves (minus D-tilt).

Hardly screwed. Sure it is disappointing, but saying Zelda is screwed is just an over-reaction.
 

Habanero Pepper

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
192
Location
Reidsville, NC
Zelda's most viable KO moves entirely depend on where you and your target are on the stage. There are many factors beyond that, such as:

*Is the move at full power? If not, then you might want to think twice before failing to KO with it and still weakening it further.
*Will they be able to recover from this? (if they can't, then there's no reason to be picky about outright KOs)
*Are they good at Smash DI? :urg:
*Can you hit with the move to begin with?

If you really want one answer though, then it's Uair. This almost always sends people skyward to their deaths with only 90 damage or less. It's a disjointed hitbox with good range, but the hit window is very brief, and the move itself is slow, so people will dodge it like herpes. You'll have to trick people into it. After Uair, sweetspotted kicks are the next best thing, although those are difficult to land, too.

Since the "best" KO move you can use will always be context sensitive, you'd do best to look at how all of your attacks send even with DI. There are even times when Ftilt and Utilt are your best bet at KOing your opponent, due to their angles and reliable, single-hit nature.

And since PwnyRide popped in, I feel that it's appropriate to mention that Zelda's "****" are not KO moves, and I'm still laughing about it.

Wow, I wasn't expecting Uair to come out of that question at all. So you're saying there's no One size fits all move. Well, asking you to spoon feed me the statistics on all of them would be rediculous, so I'll probably just experiment myself next week. Thanks Ryoko.
 

PwnyRide

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
638
Location
Australia
And since PwnyRide popped in, I feel that it's appropriate to mention that Zelda's "****" are not KO moves, and I'm still laughing about it.
Wow! that is funny, im surprised i didnt notice it. I'm gonna be laughing for a long time now :laugh:

Okay i have a legit question. How large is the hitbox on the point which Zelda appears after using Farore's Wind? Do you have to be pretty much on top of your opponent?
 

Rikuo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
37
Does Din's Fire work as a reliable chase method, or is it as easily dodged as people are saying? I've seen it rock hard, but I don't know if the players were skilled enough at dodging, or if the Zelda player was good at tricking them.

Which of her throws goes further, and which has the best combo potential? How much has this changed since Melee?

Its still way too early to talk about tier lists, but do you think Zelda will rise out of bottom tier?
 

Nakayorz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
122
Location
New York
Wow! that is funny, im surprised i didnt notice it. I'm gonna be laughing for a long time now :laugh:

Okay i have a legit question. How large is the hitbox on the point which Zelda appears after using Farore's Wind? Do you have to be pretty much on top of your opponent?
Farore's Wind hits on entry and on exit. but only has the fire effect on exit. The Farore's Wind Entry can hit at about half a characters width away whereas the exit with the burn effect must be within a quarter characters width away so that your character overlaps one fourth of theirs.

Here's a video to give you a better idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX-c0Ebj9Ak
 

Nakayorz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
122
Location
New York
Does Din's Fire work as a reliable chase method, or is it as easily dodged as people are saying? I've seen it rock hard, but I don't know if the players were skilled enough at dodging, or if the Zelda player was good at tricking them.

Which of her throws goes further, and which has the best combo potential? How much has this changed since Melee?

Its still way too early to talk about tier lists, but do you think Zelda will rise out of bottom tier?
I believe that Zelda's back throw still has the most knockback of her 4 throws. As for din's fire it's completely situational. if your opponent is off the stage and is going to make it back regardless you might as well spam him/her with it to keep him/her honest. Since din's fire is so fast you can use it to either get free damage or force your opponent to blow their dodge leaving them vulnerable to Zelda's many killshot attacks. on the ground you probably wanna keep dins fire spam to working with mind games.
 

RyokoYaksa

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 25, 2001
Messages
5,056
Location
Philadelphia, USA
The white ball of light that Zelda appears in after Farore's is its hitbox, but not the trails around it. It's a fairly substantial size.

Din's Fire as a general long range harrassment tool is quite effective. I do not advise using it to edgeguard in all situations, however. If they're in a spot where Din's Fire can Star KO or when they're out of range of anything else (and they're not Ness, G&W, or Lucas), then by all means use it. As far as trying to attack people who are testing the further limits of their recoveries, I would think twice before using Din's, since this aids them more than it helps you. Try out something different that hits them away... or maybe a Din's stage spike.

Din's Fire success rates at long ranges will actually be fairly low (air dodge invulnerability >>> Din's Fire hit frames). The amount of trickery that is possible with timing the explosion of Din's is not quite up to par with the amount of invincibility of an air dodge. For best results, be at a range where, at maximum Din's range, the backmost part of the explosion can still hit them. This way you'll also have the option of detonating it in front of them (and still with a goodly large hitbox). This will greatly complicate their dodge timing.

Zelda's Fthrow, Bthrow, and Uthrow now all have similar and damage, and are all somewhat stronger, the the Bthrow still being slightly strongest. Nothing is truly guaranteed after a throw with any kind of DI. Dthrow is basically the exact same move as in Melee, but with Brawl's reduced stun on sends. It can lead to decent chasing opportunities depending on DI and the character, but people usually DI it away making this difficult/impossible. I'd also use Dthrow when my back is to the edge of the level, to get them off the stage at a lower angle for edgeguarding than Bthrow would send. Uthrow at low damages can also lead to chases, but in the air. Uthrow at mid-high damages can even lead to an Uair setup/KO. Uthrow itself can also auto-KO at about 170 damage. Fthrow and Bthrow are good for general damage and placement.
 

darkatma

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
5,747
Location
St Louis, Missouri/Fremont, CA
Yay finally someone who can spell AND has good grammar.

Just verifying: Now with the increase effect of Brawl's DI-ability compared to melee, do you find that DIing the fair/bair up and in actually kills at lower percents that if you have slightly DIed or not DIed at all? I know I killed at 106% on FD (that was after the f-air damage).

And if that's true, doesn't this pose an advantage for zelda players (or anyone with strong send moves) against people who previously played melee and know how to DI properly? (now not so properly)
 

RyokoYaksa

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 25, 2001
Messages
5,056
Location
Philadelphia, USA
Yay finally someone who can spell AND has good grammar.

Just verifying: Now with the increase effect of Brawl's DI-ability compared to melee, do you find that DIing the fair/bair up and in actually kills at lower percents that if you have slightly DIed or not DIed at all? I know I killed at 106% on FD (that was after the f-air damage).

And if that's true, doesn't this pose an advantage for zelda players (or anyone with strong send moves) against people who previously played melee and know how to DI properly? (now not so properly)
When people DI something like Fair/Bair nearly straight up, they indeed die quite quickly. However, you will not see this as much as people actually learn how to play Brawl and get their survival DI skills in gear.

Also, Usmash is actually a fairly powerful KO-move from anywhere on the level, as is the case with straight vertical sends. But it's
 

OrlanduEX

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
1,029
I have two questions, oh self-important moderator.

What are some tips for approaching with Zelda effectively? Dash attack doesn't seem like the best choice.

Also, what are some of Zelda's bread and butter combos (if any)?
 

Krytha

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
317
Is the Dair sweetspot a frame related issue as you hypothesized, or is it more similar to the Fair/Bair sweetspot? If it is, early or late? If it isn't, where is it?
 

Lord Yawgmoth

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
175
Location
MA, United States
I got a chance to play Zelda 3 games at the Worchester tournament, during one of my matches I tried to drop through a platform and use din's fire. Much to my suprise I dropped through the platform and used transform giving my opponent a chance to pick off a stock. (I was playing a member of The Deadly Alliance, I didn't catch his tag)

So my question is then,
Can you use grabbing the edge as a way to cancel the ending lag(where you are vulnerable) of transform?

I know someone would have probably found this out if it was in, but I am a Sheik main from Melee, with Zelda as my secondary. While Zelda will probably be my main now, I am hoping to actually be able to use both of them without giving my opponent a good hit or giving up an edge guarding opportunity.

Also, can you still infinitely edge stall with Farore's wind?

I have been lurking for a long time, and I appreciate your help Ryoko.
Thank you very much.
 

Lingy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2006
Messages
274
Location
Austin, TX
Infinite edge stalling is much harder since Farore's Wind is much harder to sweetspot.
 

Zelda Master

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
254
*bows * All Hail the ZELDA MASTAH!???
Yay! XD

Here's a question... the Nayru's Love... I can use it, but I'm always attacked while in the crystals... how come the crystals aren't hurting my opponent? What do I have to do?
 

rageagainst

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
257
due to the inclusion of damage/knockback deterioration, all players who spam kicks randomly whenever they arn't trying to kill the opponent (u wont kill unless u hit someone 67% or more) don't know a thing of how to play zelda.

What are good moves that build up damage, it can't be ANY of her kill moves because then they will deteriorate, scratch U air, Fair, Dsmash (unless ur good at edgaurding and want to spike them), and mabye if U tilt.

Oh do you know anything about the Sheik/Zelda theory. I'm gonna try n make it work. Its that since shiek only has ONE (inferior) kill move but usually has better approaches and combos that Zelda, could you start the match as Sheik, get the opponent to 67%, smash him far away, and do the 4 sec long switch to go for the kill as Zelda? This joint character would seem far more superior than Sheik or Zelda separately, but is it possible?
 

afterlife

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
19
I have vision that you lack.

Anyone who disagrees with my judgements, will squander in their games.

My advice is greater than all others.

And most importantly, my Zelda style is also greater than all others.

If you have a question, I likely have the answer.

/ego tripping

So go ahead and ask.
LOL how can you say that?
"I'm am the most brilliant Zelda player you will ever meet"?
You have no idea what your saying...

The ignoance of some people...:ohwell:
 

rageagainst

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
257
LOL how can you say that?
"I'm am the most brilliant Zelda player you will ever meet"?
You have no idea what your saying...

The ignoance of some people...:ohwell:
its probably true, for most people who don't go to super tournys and fight the best of the best
 

Ledger_Damayn

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
881
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
due to the inclusion of damage/knockback deterioration, all players who spam kicks randomly whenever they arn't trying to kill the opponent (u wont kill unless u hit someone 67% or more) don't know a thing of how to play zelda.

What are good moves that build up damage, it can't be ANY of her kill moves because then they will deteriorate, scratch U air, Fair, Dsmash (unless ur good at edgaurding and want to spike them), and mabye if U tilt.

Oh do you know anything about the Sheik/Zelda theory. I'm gonna try n make it work. Its that since shiek only has ONE (inferior) kill move but usually has better approaches and combos that Zelda, could you start the match as Sheik, get the opponent to 67%, smash him far away, and do the 4 sec long switch to go for the kill as Zelda? This joint character would seem far more superior than Sheik or Zelda separately, but is it possible?
You can't exactly dictate the perfectly exact way to play a Zelda, you know. The game hasn't been out for more than a month or so. She has so many kill moves, it's possible that Fair/Bair might actually be more effective as damage builders, into a Dair spike or a Uair star KO for the kill. Or, you could use one of her lightning kicks specifically for damaging purposes, and the other for the KO. It's all relative. It's not exactly fair to say that it's stupid to use the attacks for anything but a kill move (... you only technically need a few kill moves, she has about 5000).

I think it's be assumed the case before, but I'd be happy if it was wrong. The awful transform time in tandem with increased responsiveness to DI has made it so that it's nearly impossible to transform from one to the other before your opponent makes it back to smack you in the face anyway. Star KO's barely give you enough time. But that's just from personal observation.
 

NeoZ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
955
Yeah, the opening post sounded really egocentric and presumptuous.
Also I don't see how you're the "most brilliant" Zelda player, as most people here don't even have the game(you could have said "right now" but you said "ever"), and I'm sure at one point or another someone will surpass you(or maybe not, but it's still way to early to decide).
 

Luthien

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
792
Location
Victoria, British Columbia
Yeah, the opening post sounded really egocentric and presumptuous.
Also I don't see how you're the "most brilliant" Zelda player, as most people here don't even have the game(you could have said "right now" but you said "ever"), and I'm sure at one point or another someone will surpass you(or maybe not, but it's still way to early to decide).
You fail to comprehend the greatness that is Ryoko. *Bows*

Seriously, that was just Ryoko being Ryoko. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Krytha

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
317
Yeah well maybe the "greatest Zelda of all time" can start answering the questions his ego-boosting thread has generated. Or was this just to let everyone know how awesome a player Ryoko is? I could've sworn there was a Q+A part.
 

OrlanduEX

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
1,029
Yeah well maybe the "greatest Zelda of all time" can start answering the questions his ego-boosting thread has generated. Or was this just to let everyone know how awesome a player Ryoko is? I could've sworn there was a Q+A part.
You mean Ryoko's a guy?
 

Wildfire393

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
335
due to the inclusion of damage/knockback deterioration, all players who spam kicks randomly whenever they arn't trying to kill the opponent (u wont kill unless u hit someone 67% or more) don't know a thing of how to play zelda.

What are good moves that build up damage, it can't be ANY of her kill moves because then they will deteriorate, scratch U air, Fair, Dsmash (unless ur good at edgaurding and want to spike them), and mabye if U tilt.

Oh do you know anything about the Sheik/Zelda theory. I'm gonna try n make it work. Its that since shiek only has ONE (inferior) kill move but usually has better approaches and combos that Zelda, could you start the match as Sheik, get the opponent to 67%, smash him far away, and do the 4 sec long switch to go for the kill as Zelda? This joint character would seem far more superior than Sheik or Zelda separately, but is it possible?
Actually, Stale Move Negation works well in Zelda's FAVOR. You can spam one of the kicks for damage, and switch to the other of the kicks to kill. Or spam kicks for damage and kill with the Upair/Uptilt. She just has so many high-powered kill moves that you can use them as much as you like to build damage and still have one or two fresh options available at any given time.
 
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