Tristan_win
Not dead.
Your missing three things. =D Make sure to look at the original picture too
edit: 4 if you count size which I don't really.
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Official Hyrule Hangout - Sheik Social
- Thread starter Xiivi
- Start date
edit: 4 if you count size which I don't really.
Absol
Sucker Punch
Removed the cowlick bandage. Removed the OTHER stray hair. Made her clothes bright.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
I don't know what you mean by the cowlick bandage but I made her eye much brighter red (I did this separate from the whole picture) and I remove her eyebrow that was on her hair.
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Pawsome!
All that and a Duck!
Well I really lack the eye to pick up on everything just yet, especially the mind games that come with a lot of PvP interaction but I was pretty impressed with a couple things I saw.
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Absol
Sucker Punch
Absol
Sucker Punch
Hey, if you play/like Sheik thats good enough for me.
Rich Homie Quan
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2014
- Messages
- 887
Yeah, but he still won. I'm sure we'll be able to get around them as the meta develops.
Lil Mac is good. Glass cannon. Sheik can break him pretty easily though. Needles help so much
I watched that set (and the set before) Bwett didn't get stomped by any means, he got a few bad gimps and lost his momentum. He destroyed Denti a few rounds.
At falling for obvious counter/air dodges. Sometimes you take those risks... you have to! What if Bwett didn't counter or air dodge in those situations and denti didn't go for the follow up? You miss out on a free stock. But bwett knows that is true too so he takes the risk.
On the flip what if Bwett knew Denti wouldn't attack and help his counter. He'd get back for free anyway. Its all mind games it is easy to guess from the sidelines, but these guys play each other all the time (they live together) and it shows in the set.
I'm going HARD with sheik for the 3DS version. I think Ed is waiting to the WiiU to get serious though... what are you guys planning on doing?
Also where are you heads at for custom moves? I've talked with @
Tristan_win
a lot about custom moves. I am so confident they will make it to competitive play. where are you heads at as far as those go?
I looking at
N-B1 (needle storm) cus free damage
S-B2or3 (the standard side B is lack luster IMO... I hear it kills and it sets up neat pressure in some situations since you can act before the explosion... but the start up on it is WAY too long for my tastes when you have needles as an option. Though S-B1 may be a good option for getting people recovering low.) Side B1 seems like it can combo into kill options or damage and seems to be on a shorter timer, so it's easy to punish certain things in to kill at a range that you'd normally only be able to needle or something.
U-B1 Standard Vanish is amazing. Start showing you why soon.
D-B3 SO many mind games, so much mobility.
At falling for obvious counter/air dodges. Sometimes you take those risks... you have to! What if Bwett didn't counter or air dodge in those situations and denti didn't go for the follow up? You miss out on a free stock. But bwett knows that is true too so he takes the risk.
On the flip what if Bwett knew Denti wouldn't attack and help his counter. He'd get back for free anyway. Its all mind games it is easy to guess from the sidelines, but these guys play each other all the time (they live together) and it shows in the set.
I'm going HARD with sheik for the 3DS version. I think Ed is waiting to the WiiU to get serious though... what are you guys planning on doing?
Also where are you heads at for custom moves? I've talked with @
Tristan_win
a lot about custom moves. I am so confident they will make it to competitive play. where are you heads at as far as those go?I looking at
N-B1 (needle storm) cus free damage
S-B2or3 (the standard side B is lack luster IMO... I hear it kills and it sets up neat pressure in some situations since you can act before the explosion... but the start up on it is WAY too long for my tastes when you have needles as an option. Though S-B1 may be a good option for getting people recovering low.) Side B1 seems like it can combo into kill options or damage and seems to be on a shorter timer, so it's easy to punish certain things in to kill at a range that you'd normally only be able to needle or something.
U-B1 Standard Vanish is amazing. Start showing you why soon.
D-B3 SO many mind games, so much mobility.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Right now my plans mainly consist of breaking Sheik down as best I can and to be king my of little domain over here in Okinawa at least until I can somehow penetrate the Japanese scene. I also wont be getting serious until the WiiU though as testing with 1 3DS is very limiting.I'm going HARD with sheik for the 3DS version. I think Ed is waiting to the WiiU to get serious though... what are you guys planning on doing?
Also where are you heads at for custom moves? I've talked with @
I looking at
N-B1 (needle storm) cus free damage
S-B2or3 (the standard side B is lack luster IMO... I hear it kills and it sets up neat pressure in some situations since you can act before the explosion... but the start up on it is WAY too long for my tastes when you have needles as an option. Though S-B1 may be a good option for getting people recovering low.) Side B1 seems like it can combo into kill options or damage and seems to be on a shorter timer, so it's easy to punish certain things in to kill at a range that you'd normally only be able to needle or something.
U-B1 Standard Vanish is amazing. Start showing you why soon.
D-B3 SO many mind games, so much mobility.
As far as Custom moves go here's what I currently want mine to be but only extended testing will confirm what I'll settle on
N-B2 I'm rather curious about it's different stun properties as they might be better then regular needles for set ups and they do the same amount of damage just less needles, their speed is also very close if not identical. They are also a superior option over regular needles in counter picking. If you win a match and stay Sheik chance are you will keep the same specials and regular needles can be counter by someone like Villager or DHD with a big gunman. By always picking piecing needles you will never have that problem.
S-B2 ...So your saying we have a fairly quick disjointed combo starter that can true combo into things like usmash, fsmash and bouncing fish? Why are we still talking? ....I'm sorry I'll test around with S-B1 (mainly due to it being the standard) and to a much lesser extent S-B3 (only to see if it can kill at a decent percentage) but I can't see right now the advantages S-B1 could bring to outshine S-B2. Sure it might be a better zone tool (which is something I plan to argue against in the future), great edge trap, shield pressure and could work as a wall against recovery but its still going to be very abrasive to Sheik normal play style and require a lot of fore thought. For S-B2 you have that to a MUCH lesser extent, not only does it pay off more on hit but it's just easier to use and to spam.
U-B3 I think most Sheiks will pick either U-B1 or U-B2 and I can't blame them as they are both excellent options and I'm willing to bet people will bicker about which is better and why for a very long time to come but U-B3 really sticks out to me. Since 2005 when my friend Marth spike my Sheik I've always wanted Sheik to have a true spike and now she does with her up B. I don't care that it's usefulness is limited as it shows so much promise for edge guarding that I'm willing to throw a 100 hour if not more of my life behind it just to make all of you think it's the most broken up B option.
D-B1 Honestly all of the bouncing fish options look fantastic and while this move may become heavily match up dependent and I do plan to test all of them especially for knock back, hit box placement, hit box speed and combo ability I'm still going to stick to standard. It's complexity alone and ability is enough to satisfied me until I see D-B2 or D-B3 start to really outshine it if they can.
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Sheik is defo one of the top characters early on, and it will be interesting to see how she develops from now on. I've watched great ones on stream and faced a couple in For Glory too.
The obvious question though is if her lack of kill options will hurt her in the end though. She relies a lot on gimping now and does it great but fact remains you can live quite long against her.
Sheik might end up top tier in the end but I'm in no way as certain as I am with, say, Rosalina.
You guys are probably happy to see her being very much viable at least though!
The obvious question though is if her lack of kill options will hurt her in the end though. She relies a lot on gimping now and does it great but fact remains you can live quite long against her.
Sheik might end up top tier in the end but I'm in no way as certain as I am with, say, Rosalina.
You guys are probably happy to see her being very much viable at least though!
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Here's the thing, in Brawl a Sheik main was ecstatic if they killed or gimp below 100% as killing around 130-150% if not more wasn't just common it was almost expect to the point that you would stop noticing it. If you had a good round you would quickly rush your opponent to over 100% (assume you couldn't finish them before 100%) with little effort and then played footies or camp for the rest, this happen a lot even for super polish Sheiks with months upon month of practice if not years.
Now compare this to where we are now with less then a month into the game and Sheik is already killing below 130%, even below 100% at least once almost every match! This is without endless practice, memorizing of killing and combo percents or even good control of decay!
For people who didn't main Sheik in Brawl I can see why they would think she is having trouble killing but to us she killing with ease.
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Rich Homie Quan
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2014
- Messages
- 887
Additionally, sheik is just brilliant in guarding the edge, as always. But she definitely Has more options now more than ever. In a game like smash 4, where offstage play is encouraged, sheik really shines.
Absol
Sucker Punch
I dont know about you guys, but I'm going to try to keep that Uair as fresh as possible if Dthrow works so well into it.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
あばだんご（Pac Man）ｖｓ シュウ（Sheik）
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prg8k9k9l-Q
あばだんご（Pac Man）ｖｓ おおとり（Sheik）
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97H9rA9cgWY
I don't know Japanese but I do think if anyone so far has a positive match up or maybe even be a counter to Sheik it's Pac man.
Here's why I think this
1. Fire hydrant, due to Pac man standing on his hydrant Sheik cannot interrupt him (no matter the custom) as he prepares his defensive/offensive neutral B nor can she force him to approach so she has to go on the attack.
2. While on his fire hydrant he naturally place himself in Sheik blind spot, peaches do this all the time and it works. Now while Sheik new down B and side B directly help cover up this spot helping to make Sheik flawless they are either not really safe on shield or are unrealistic to be able to use constantly to force Pac Man to move.
3. Frame data is needed but while watching these video's I notice Pac man at times would up B between Sheik 'combo's'. This doesn't mean immediately he's like Mega man but it does mean Pac man could have a Marth like up B in brawl and have IF frames at start. This hurts Sheik semi combo by a good chunk and it doesn't help Pac man is penalize very little when he uses his up B on stage.
With just these 3 things the match up is looking bad for Sheik but of course not unwinnable since Sheik is too good. What may sway the match up in Sheik favor would be her quick extend horizontal custom for down B as that might give her the speed and range to never be shut out.
and yes I did almost completely cut and paste this from somewhere else but I wouldn't mind hearing what you guys think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prg8k9k9l-Q
あばだんご（Pac Man）ｖｓ おおとり（Sheik）
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97H9rA9cgWY
I don't know Japanese but I do think if anyone so far has a positive match up or maybe even be a counter to Sheik it's Pac man.
Here's why I think this
1. Fire hydrant, due to Pac man standing on his hydrant Sheik cannot interrupt him (no matter the custom) as he prepares his defensive/offensive neutral B nor can she force him to approach so she has to go on the attack.
2. While on his fire hydrant he naturally place himself in Sheik blind spot, peaches do this all the time and it works. Now while Sheik new down B and side B directly help cover up this spot helping to make Sheik flawless they are either not really safe on shield or are unrealistic to be able to use constantly to force Pac Man to move.
3. Frame data is needed but while watching these video's I notice Pac man at times would up B between Sheik 'combo's'. This doesn't mean immediately he's like Mega man but it does mean Pac man could have a Marth like up B in brawl and have IF frames at start. This hurts Sheik semi combo by a good chunk and it doesn't help Pac man is penalize very little when he uses his up B on stage.
With just these 3 things the match up is looking bad for Sheik but of course not unwinnable since Sheik is too good. What may sway the match up in Sheik favor would be her quick extend horizontal custom for down B as that might give her the speed and range to never be shut out.
and yes I did almost completely cut and paste this from somewhere else but I wouldn't mind hearing what you guys think.
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#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Ummmm.......so DACUS is a thing again.
http://youtu.be/8ismOSX5zTY
The entire state of FL collectively wept today because of it.
http://youtu.be/8ismOSX5zTY
The entire state of FL collectively wept today because of it.
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Tristan_win
Not dead.
You know, I was going to test combo potential with Sheik and was doing fine too until I started testing Fair.
In training mode against Mario at 0% Fair can true combo into
Jab
Ftilt, Dtilt,
Dash attack
Needles
Fsmash, usmash, dsmash
jump into Nair, jump into Fair.
It's rough but at 15% Sheik can start combo into BF too.
What the f*** Sheik. What the f***. Why am I gathering data when you already can do whatever the f*** you want... <3
Like even if it's 1.0 decay and not 1.05 I don't think you would be out of range for the fsmash and the timing is so easy too.
Fair into fsmash seem to stop around 25%
Here's the rest of my testing so far
Mario 0%
Dthrow into fair, nair, uair
Fthrow into fair, nair
Nair into jabs
Jabs into jabs.
Side B into everything but another side B and vanish... I tried. Technically side B combos indefinely, just for fun I slow the game down and at 999% I manage to side B into nair. Really though you start being unable to follow it up around 100% as they just fly so fast that the timing is rough.
You will notice I didn't mention grab anywhere, that's because you can't tell if you can combo into grab.
So at 0% only dthrow,fthrow, nair, fair, and side B are combo starters. All other moves are either not safe or not as rewarding.
In training mode against Mario at 0% Fair can true combo into
Jab
Ftilt, Dtilt,
Dash attack
Needles
Fsmash, usmash, dsmash
jump into Nair, jump into Fair.
It's rough but at 15% Sheik can start combo into BF too.
What the f*** Sheik. What the f***. Why am I gathering data when you already can do whatever the f*** you want... <3
Like even if it's 1.0 decay and not 1.05 I don't think you would be out of range for the fsmash and the timing is so easy too.
Fair into fsmash seem to stop around 25%
Here's the rest of my testing so far
Mario 0%
Dthrow into fair, nair, uair
Fthrow into fair, nair
Nair into jabs
Jabs into jabs.
Side B into everything but another side B and vanish... I tried. Technically side B combos indefinely, just for fun I slow the game down and at 999% I manage to side B into nair. Really though you start being unable to follow it up around 100% as they just fly so fast that the timing is rough.
You will notice I didn't mention grab anywhere, that's because you can't tell if you can combo into grab.
So at 0% only dthrow,fthrow, nair, fair, and side B are combo starters. All other moves are either not safe or not as rewarding.
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I keep forgeting I have downB as an option. I keep trying to chain the edge of the stage.
Rich Homie Quan
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2014
- Messages
- 887
Sheik is bae <3
needle camp sheik is back. not nearly as punishing damage wise as it was in brawl though.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
I was playing a peach online I stole her second jump with a needle storm. I just kept shooting single needles and she kept getting hit. as she neared the end of the needle range I just ran forward and continued. instead of getting needled into the blast zone she upBed inbetween needles; easy pickings for a fresh fair kill. The whole exchange though added like an extra ten damage.
Needles do no damage in this game I think they max at 12 fully charged now fresh. the added hit stun is nice though and the force sloppy approaches, I don't know if they have less cool down or what but they feel way safer even if I guess wrong too. Bar a few little changes sheik is basically the same except with added hit stun and an easy input dacus that is safe on sheild (Bouncing fish). Ed we are gonna be in there all of the time this time.
Needles do no damage in this game I think they max at 12 fully charged now fresh. the added hit stun is nice though and the force sloppy approaches, I don't know if they have less cool down or what but they feel way safer even if I guess wrong too. Bar a few little changes sheik is basically the same except with added hit stun and an easy input dacus that is safe on sheild (Bouncing fish). Ed we are gonna be in there all of the time this time.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
<3 Remember to full hop needles so you don't get so much lag ^-^ You can jump before you hit the ground just like Brawl.
Edit: I've already mention this to a few Sheiks already but you can also cancel the lag of side B with the ledge. Making for a strong wall off stage wall and somewhat on. With cutting out the lag from side B if you do it from ledge due to zero IF regrab you can making it possible for Sheik to even bair faster then the grenade can explode.
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#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
DACUS is love...DACUS is life.
ShiekShallKill
Smash Cadet
I believe that Shiek has the skill to be top tier. Good Recovery, Exellent combos, and projectiles are also good. That's my 2 cents at least. (Btw, I have used Shiek in SSB4, so I know how to use her.) The only thing I don't like is her Dair, which even has it's uses.
GunGunW
Smash Lord
Wait, wouldn't Sheik be Naruto's older sister? She's not younger than him in any sense of the word. 
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Death.......
In all honesty, that is a weird question. I can imagine 40%? I dunno.
In all honesty, that is a weird question. I can imagine 40%? I dunno.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
I give it a year
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
I'm having trouble against little mac players
Probably have to get them in the air
But on land they are super fast and strong
Probably have to get them in the air
But on land they are super fast and strong
Three words,
Retreating pivot f-tilt,
With the amount of little macs in for glory I decided to figure out a decent way to beat out the stereotypical jolt haymaker spam with insane ease.... Works nearly every time. Of course I could just shield+grab.
On to a quick question, anyone have any ideas for something to follow up on grab/d-throw or f-throw/f-airx2>jump>f-fair
BF doesn't work too well at the end and while I could just end the combo there I'd like to finish it up better. I could also maybe just BF back to stage and charge needles/attempt edge guards.
i just love that sheik has so many true combos on ALL characters. ive tested against every character in training mode and also played alot against real players and not matter how they use theri VI, dthrow to fair always works on anyone at low percents <3
ShiekShallKill
Smash Cadet
Hmm maybe, problem is the combo in question tends to take them off stage. And yeah isn't everyone?
Am i the only one seeing a lot of japanese Sheik players who just spam the burst grenade and keep running away? It's like they're robots, it's pretty unsettling, specially because there isn't even a ranking system or anything that you would like to grind on.
ShiekShallKill
Smash Cadet
Tristan_win
Not dead.
~squeals~
The first wave of new Sheik users have arrived! < 3
The first wave of new Sheik users have arrived! < 3
I've been playing mostly Sheik since release. Really really fun, love her off stage options
ShiekShallKill
Smash Cadet
I've tested it and the avarage for me was 42%..... I suppose it just depends on the situation
Lol don't get your hopes up for me, I've been a Sheik main since melee (Casual then) and got into the competitive scene barely during brawls final years with the help of Scary Ed. Never made a name for myself though.
@SheikShallKill You can BF as a finisher for it but the problem with that is if they're decent at all they'll probably be using VI to try and get away from another f-air at this point and the hitstun won't last enough for a true combo. you could probably get it if you condition them to assume you won't chase after 3x f-airs.
Edit: Just thought of something, if you space it right you could end the third fair above ledge and cancel a grenade throw early with ledge grab followed by whatever aerial you think you could pull off... B-air maybe?
3 hours later edit: and I just finished up some testing because curiosity following on my previous idea I decided to see what was possible from ledge and there are two things I like a lot...
One is ledge grenade walls
jump>hold towards blastzone>1s later press b>regrab ledge
if you land on stage you're doing it too soon, if you die too late. (just noticed an edit up on this page mentioning this very same tactic oh well still useful)
you can spam that relatively easily and quickly for a fairly high wall.
the second is on FD you BF the towards stage at a relatively low point(the biggest root on the right is a good marker) to get a rebound allowing you to have a BF right at the ledge facing the blastzone.
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