Official Hyrule Hangout - Sheik Social

[Tristan_win]

Sheik is gonna be alright. I have some eh feelings but that is primarily because of 3ds controls.

Lemme on a controller and I'm gonna have a ball.

I would actually like to hear your 'eh' thoughts even if they were pity if it's about Sheik. Right now you most likely have the best understand of Sheik in a pro meta which is something I've never experience before so feel free to pm me them ^-^ or AIM since I'm using AIM again.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Bouncing fish of doom tbh

It's some sneak attack ****

Sheik a ninja bro

Damn

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I would actually like to hear your 'eh' thoughts even if they were pity if it's about Sheik. Right now you most likely have the best understand of Sheik in a pro meta which is something I've never experience before so feel free to pm me them ^-^ or AIM since I'm using AIM again.

I have my doubts about the bombs but that's probably only because of first feels of the game. Bouncing Fish seems only mildly useful as well. Otherwise everything looks and feels the same with some added aerial mobility which is a plus. When I finally have a controller, it'll literally be almost a full brawl import with a few pluses and minuses. Like absol said last page, it really only seems like they realize what she could do now and that's because there is a hype train surrounding her.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

YO ILLMATIC!!!! STILL NEED TO SEE ME ON MARIO PARTY FOOL!!!!!

Welcome to Sheik buddy!

 

[Tristan_win]

I have my doubts about the bombs but that's probably only because of first feels of the game. Bouncing Fish seems only mildly useful as well. Otherwise everything looks and feels the same with some added aerial mobility which is a plus. When I finally have a controller, it'll literally be almost a full brawl import with a few pluses and minuses. Like absol said last page, it really only seems like they realize what she could do now and that's because there is a hype train surrounding her.

and I will throw as much coal into that hype train engine until I achieve my goal. ~grabs your wrist and tries to pull you aboard~

I can understand where your coming from though, I personally feel that side B is overrated due to that one clip of it's effects on sand bag. It's start up time reminds me a lot of the chain which in Brawl requires you to predict your opponent about one second before using which was a huge flaw that will only be amplified with smash 4 increase speed. I am very excited for BF though and after seeing it's alterations I can't help but think this move will change how Sheik is going to be played in smash4, if anything enhance it although not as much as needles. The needles buff was completely unexpected. I don't know what on earth Sakurai is thinking with giving sheik such a good range option but I'll happily take it. If my first impression are correct then Sheik could have a insanely fast, safe range combo/string starter and with a option like that I can't see sheik being played the same on the top level. Right now I'm trying to be logical though, I don't want to say something is 'the best thing ever' without even touching the game.

On a unrelated noted today I was joyfully thinking about how chain grabbing is for now removed and how our nemesis ice climbers are now gone which is a indirect buff to Sheik.

..Sorry, when I ask you that question I honestly wasn't trying to 'cheer up' your thinking, my writing just sort of brought me there ^.^'

 

[#HBC | Scary]

No need for sorry at all buddy!

I find myself being a little bit of a downer when it comes to the new game and that is only because I'm not the type to theory craft at all. I usually just wait until it have the game, and then go nuts though I read into what a lot of people post and stuff lol. Once I have the game, I'll probably push the train from outside the cars.

Yea, that's kinda what I'm thinking for the bombs as well. It'll be a nice mid range option certainly but it just seems that it really only has a niche use. Unlike Snake, we can't be mobile with them hence my doubts but I'm sure they will be ok once we dive into them further.

 

[Absol]

I think the bombs will be decent for edge guarding similar to how the chain was effective to some characters on brawl. And since you can no longer dip down and grab the edge for more IF the bombs timer can work in our favor. The bomb does vertical knock back so that's a stage spike if they hold on for too long (hopefully). Especially since the more percent you have, the less IF you get on the edge. If her side b is similar how it was when i played her at the e3 demo you can hold it for a little longer than usual. Not for as long as you want though. So it leaves some room for faking someone out.

I really would still want her DACUS->ledge jump read->tipper

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Have you guys seen the approaches with bouncing fish? There's some really creative stuff out there.

Sheik will be fantastic in this game. Offstage play is key. Gotta go for those back airs.

 

[Tristan_win]

I think the bombs will be decent for edge guarding similar to how the chain was effective to some characters on brawl. And since you can no longer dip down and grab the edge for more IF the bombs timer can work in our favor. The bomb does vertical knock back so that's a stage spike if they hold on for too long (hopefully). Especially since the more percent you have, the less IF you get on the edge. If her side b is similar how it was when i played her at the e3 demo you can hold it for a little longer than usual. Not for as long as you want though. So it leaves some room for faking someone out.

I really would still want her DACUS->ledge jump read->tipper

Oh yeah, I definitely agree that the bombs do look to have a lot of potential as a anti recovery option, sort of like a range vanish and as a edge pressure tool but beyond that I'm unsure how it will be used. With the chain it was a low/med risk with potentially low to high reward option but the nade in smash4 doesn't look anywhere near as flexible and just like the chain it interrupts your normal play. Back in Brawl when I tried to find how to use the chain I quickly discovered you could use it in a lot of scenarios but by doing so would polarized your game play and in a way change Sheik as a character. I'm unsure at this point if this will be a good thing or bad with Sheik new side B. It is worth noting though we have seen at nintendo 3ds tournament a Sheik trying to built a style around side b and he was having I dare say somewhat good results, although they could of been much better if he was more willing to follow up on hit. This makes me think that Sheik could have a very very different style then in brawl if you CHOOSE to take it. Personally I'm against it but I still think like a Brawl Sheik main not smash4.

There's also the little interesting fact show in our beloved special alternation video that after 100% side b can act as a kill move. This is a property the chain never had and if Sheik is still having trouble killing the nade could be proven useful as a surprise quick switch in style for the kill or set up for a gimp. Its something to consider especially since its always wise to play more defensively when you and your opponent are in killing %. Doing something like a quick dash back into nade could be a decent anti air or zoning move if the nade explosion when hit. I swear, if nade explode when they are hit I think Sheik new side B will be good, if not then only somewhat good. This is why i made a note about it having a hit box before the explosion as if they have a hit box they could very easily have a hurt box.

Especially since the more percent you have, the less IF you get on the edge

Source please, that's a pretty extreme change which will help speed up the game.

 

[Absol]

Source please, that's a pretty extreme change which will help speed up the game.

Sakurai has stated it. It also was one of the tips on the smash bros demo I believe. But so the sake of testing I'll start the demo and force the cpu into sudden death for 300% to compare the IFs.


....

0%= 1 second(possibly more) of IF so about 60 IFs

300%= lol, literally looked like just 1 IF

 

[Tristan_win]

Sakurai has stated it. It also was one of the tips on the smash bros demo I believe. But so the sake of testing I'll start the demo and force the cpu into sudden death for 300% to compare the IFs.


....

0%= 1 second(possibly more) of IF so about 60 IFs

300%= lol, literally looked like just 1 IF

I wonder.. As of right now my understanding is your unable to let go of the ledge while you have IF frames if this is the only thing preventing you from letting go then edgehogging someone while having zero damage could actually put you at a disadvantage if you try to immediately let go into bair with Sheik. The same could be said of the opposite, if someone edgehog you with 0 damage then you would be put at a frame advantage to punish them if they try to let go of the ledge to attack. Hopefully the designers had the foresight to see this problem and set up a static time you have to hang on the ledge once you edgehog or in general that doesn't make this new mechanic inconstant

This also means one of my favorite gimmicks from Brawl, rapid jabs edge pressure is now gone or at least greatly nerf =/ it's a shame I really like sometimes getting 30% due to a lucky jab at the right time when someone below 100% tried to ledge attack, foolishly try to jump or let go of the ledge to use a non disjointed aerial

 

[Absol]

I wonder.. As of right now my understanding is your unable to let go of the ledge while you have IF frames if this is the only thing preventing you from letting go then edgehogging someone while having zero damage could actually put you at a disadvantage if you try to immediately let go into bair with Sheik. The same could be said of the opposite, if someone edgehog you with 0 damage then you would be put at a frame advantage to punish them if they try to let go of the ledge to attack. Hopefully the designers had the foresight to see this problem and set up a static time you have to hang on the ledge once you edgehog or in general that doesn't make this new mechanic inconstant

This also means one of my favorite gimmicks from Brawl, rapid jabs edge pressure is now gone or at least greatly nerf =/ it's a shame I really like sometimes getting 30% due to a lucky jab at the right time when someone below 100% tried to ledge attack, foolishly try to jump or let go of the ledge to use a non disjointed aerial

You dont have to wait for the IF to ware off in order to drop down. you're just losing those IFs you could of have. if you grab the edge again WITHOUT touching the ground first you get 0 IFs .

 

[Tristan_win]

You dont have to wait for the IF to ware off in order to drop down. you're just losing those IFs you could of have. if you grab the edge again WITHOUT touching the ground first you get 0 IFs .

WELL if that's the case then it sounds like Melee style so doing IF bair might be a thing again, neat. That should help against all those pesky strong recoveries.

 

[Absol]

I'm...not really sure if IFs transfer like that anymore. But I cant really pause my 3ds at perfect frame to prove it.

 

[Ffamran]

Is it just me, or do I find Sheik's Down Smash way too amusing? I remember spamming it in Brawl just because it was so cool and so funny to break-dance and murdelize people.

 

[ADAPT Chance]

Sheik styling on the cast with some dance moves.

Looking forward to how the Sheik play develops over time, right now she is looking pretty damn solid.

 

[lRasha]

The needles buff was completely unexpected. I don't know what on earth Sakurai is thinking with giving sheik such a good range option but I'll happily take it.

Hello! I read this and became curious. Did her needles really get buffed? Are you talking about the melee-cancel or something else?

In brawl, she has six needles doing 3 damage each with a total of 18 dmg.

In the SSB4 demo (not the one going on now but before then), I thought I saw them nerf it to 2 dmg per needle.

Now it seems like she charges 5 needles but I don't know if the dmg is still 2%.

I'm not trying to be rude by the way. If you know something that I don't, please tell me. Lol I would love for needles to be buffed.

 

[Absol]

Hello! I read this and became curious. Did her needles really get buffed? Are you talking about the melee-cancel or something else?

In brawl, she has six needles doing 3 damage each with a total of 18 dmg.

In the SSB4 demo (not the one going on now but before then), I thought I saw them nerf it to 2 dmg per needle.

Now it seems like she charges 5 needles but I don't know if the dmg is still 2%.

I'm not trying to be rude by the way. If you know something that I don't, please tell me. Lol I would love for needles to be buffed.

Her needles no longer auto cancel like they did in the demo. They got buffed simply because they have added stun + knock-back. From what I've played they do a slight vertical knock back paired with the knock-back according to what direction they're going. This is good since there has been added landing lag to a good number of characters in smash 4. Not only do needles stun more, but it forces opponents to land and use up frames. Wasted frames sheik can use to close in on their opponent, get better positioning, hell even set up a burst grenade if that is what you want to do. It tends to be more effective at higher percents as it will send them upwards more. I doubt you can legitimately combo afterwards with them unless you're right in their face and try to do a dash attack or something.

EDIT: okay....needles -> dash attack MIGHT work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vImgPOKziKo @ 10:10

 

[Tristan_win]

@ lRasha Basically everything what Absol said, needles now set people up much better for combos however I don't think this is the most important trait in smash4. What really makes needles so good in smash 4 is how safe they are to spam. Unlike previous titles where Sheik needles were typically unsafe to use in close/mid range they now have extremely little lag and travel insanely quickly which greatly enhance not only Sheik camping game but her zone of control. NOW you mix that with how much reward Sheik gets when she does hit someone with needles and suddenly you have yourself possibly the best projectile in the game.

edit: I feel once people start to get better at smash4 Sheik camping game alone will be enough to beat lesser characters

 

[<π]

I think needles were up there with the best projectiles in the game in brawl. everyone else's projectiles got nerfed and ours got buffed. Not mad.

We'll see how it rocks. Sheik has some of the same issues she had in brawl and similar strengths. She needed a little push in brawl to be up there with the best characters IMO. (Its actually frustrating how much attention she is getting now because not much has changed to be honest) We will just have to wait and see how the scales treat us this time.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I'm seeing some really creative uses of bouncing fish.

Sheik has so many offstage options. You can F-Air, B-Air, N-Nair, bouncing fish off the stage, needle, and bomb. All of these are great at keeping the enemy at bay.

Like damn. Seriously.

 

[Elletrico]

Greetings frens (I don't know you guys). It's been a while.

Just curious about some stuff.

Is needle canceling intact (shield)? Dash -> needle cancel gave really fluid movement options.
Are her Up-B properties still same?
Asides from offstage fair, bouncing fish, and up-air, are there any reliable kill moves?
Assuming her nair is akin to Falcon's Brawl bair, does it auto-cancel on the first hit when hitting the ground?

Also, side-b is the nuts.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Is there any Sheik vs DHD footage floating out there? I'm wondering how she'll deal

 

[Tristan_win]

Is there any Sheik vs DHD footage floating out there? I'm wondering how she'll deal

To my knowledge there's just one video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJesTn3HfdA&index=12&list=PLFXOgPi6_N5QGmgr2kUW3Uj2EDsfhvfhY
I used the short hand DHD in the video thread, should I change it?

Edit: I also don't think DHD will be a problem for Sheik with her long dash attack, quick mobility overall and how needles act similar to Brawl against Snake grenades which will negate DHD frisbee. If CM are allowed then piercing needles will only turn this match up more in Sheik favor due to DHD not being able to hid behind his gunman wall.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

To my knowledge there's just one video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJesTn3HfdA&index=12&list=PLFXOgPi6_N5QGmgr2kUW3Uj2EDsfhvfhY
I used the short hand DHD in the video thread, should I change it?

Edit: I also don't think DHD will be a problem for Sheik with her long dash attack, quick mobility overall and how needles act similar to Brawl against Snake grenades which will negate DHD frisbee. If CM are allowed then piercing needles will only turn this match up more in Sheik favor due to DHD not being able to hid behind his gunman wall.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. If Sheik can break through DHD's zones, which shouldn't be too big of a problem, that dog is gonna get whooped.

 

[Tristan_win]

So... I just saw some gameplay where Sheik vanish killed just above 100% against Falco. Fsmash is also looking pretty good and it might kill around 100% as well.

I don't think Sheik will have any problems killing in smash4.

 

[Absol]

I don't think Sheik will have any problems killing in smash4.

Its over...its finally over.

 

[Tristan_win]

Its over...its finally over.

Yeah things are looking pretty good but I really want to get my hands on the damn game already. I know what I saw and <3 was there to reconfirm but on some level I still don't believe it that vanish can kill around 100%.

Like what if Vex falco for some strange reason was VI up making it kill like 15% sooner, I also don't recall m2k sheik health, was he over 100%? If he was wouldn't that make vanish stronger the normal, possibly another 10%? What if these two things are being combined?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Confirming most of our old ATs exist......vanish glide & needle glide are back so we also have some surprsies and old gimmicks that can be recycled in this game.

Me and needles in this game are a love/hate relationship. On one hand, they will be awesome for gimping. On the other, damage output is butt compared to Brawl needles, proving that Damage scaling is for sure a thing when a move is used over and over. All I need is a controller and I'm ready to push for high/top tier. Feeling like a hipster Sheik with all the new ones like <3 said lmao.

 

[-Mars-]

Yo guys I'm here and ready to wreck scrubs next week. Finally my baby is restored to the way she should be<3.

Someone give me the details on what's going on currently I haven't seen much of the game so far. I hear Sheik is supposedly early top 5?

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

The almighty pimp slap of doom is at the perfect balance between comboability and offstage kill potential. Such high utility.

Sheik is bae.

 

[Absol]

Chaingrabs and edgehogs are gone so she works well in this game. If that made you smile then your face would break with what stuff she actually got.

 

[Tristan_win]

Yo guys I'm here and ready to wreck scrubs next week. Finally my baby is restored to the way she should be<3.

Someone give me the details on what's going on currently I haven't seen much of the game so far. I hear Sheik is supposedly early top 5?

Hey -Mars- it's good to see you around.

To sum things up Sheik new down B bouncing fish is a kill move that kills around 100% near the edges of the stage and can be combo into from Fair or throws if they DI poorly.
Bouncing fish distance can be adjusted and is a great recovery move which can sweet spot the ledge.
Sheik is much faster, dashing speed, running speed, falling speed(insane), jumping speed and air mobility all been improved.
Dthrow set up combo's at almost every reasonable percentage under 90%
This includes our new muti hitting uair which is also a pretty good kill move around 90%
Sheik grab game is fantastic between dthrow almost always comboing and fthrow/bthrow being able to be follow up with a aerial or BF to kill.
Vanish might be a real kill move now, testing is needed but it's been shown to kill just above 100%
Nair no longer kills.
Sheik new side B has yet to prove it's self really but it can kill around 130ish % which is good and does give Sheik the advantage on hit even in the low % so it's not bad that's for sure.
Sheik Ftilt I think is more melee style on the foot but still has it's inward hit box at the thigh, still testing is needed
Sheik doesn't know what landing lag is in smash4, her fair and nair have like no lag and are very combo happy, uair and bair are like Brawl and can auto cancel.
Needles are godly fast and have insanely little start up and cool down, they also look safe on hit at any % and can even set people up if they are at a high %

Overall besides our guaranteed grab game Sheik has the same combo's but they are easily to do constantly and her killing options has vastly improve to make up for lacking Zelda. She still looks to do best when her opponents are below 100% and once they are no longer in combo percentage her ability sharply drops again while other stronger characters will start to really shine.

Edit: With that said hope isn't lost yet as I've seen dtilt comboing into uair above 120% so this might not be a real problem. Only time will tell.

 

[-Mars-]

Hey -Mars- it's good to see you around.

To sum things up Sheik new down B bouncing fish is a kill move that kills around 100% near the edges of the stage and can be combo into from Fair or throws if they DI poorly.
Bouncing fish distance can be adjusted and is a great recovery move which can sweet spot the ledge.
Sheik is much faster, dashing speed, running speed, falling speed(insane), jumping speed and air mobility all been improved.
Dthrow set up combo's at almost every reasonable percentage under 90%
This includes our new muti hitting uair which is also a pretty good kill move around 90%
Sheik grab game is fantastic between dthrow almost always comboing and fthrow/bthrow being able to be follow up with a aerial or BF to kill.
Vanish might be a real kill move now, testing is needed but it's been shown to kill just above 100%
Nair no longer kills.
Sheik new side B has yet to prove it's self really but it can kill around 130ish % which is good and does give Sheik the advantage on hit even in the low % so it's not bad that's for sure.
Sheik Ftilt I think is more melee style on the foot but still has it's inward hit box at the thigh, still testing is needed
Sheik doesn't know what landing lag is in smash4, her fair and nair have like no lag and are very combo happy, uair and bair are like Brawl and can auto cancel.
Needles are godly fast and have insanely little start up and cool down, they also look safe on hit at any % and can even set people up if they are at a high %

Overall besides our guaranteed grab game Sheik has the same combo's but they are easily to do constantly and her killing options has vastly improve to make up for lacking Zelda. She still looks to do best when her opponents are below 100% and once they are no longer in combo percentage her ability sharply drops again while other stronger characters will start to really shine.

Edit: With that said hope isn't lost yet as I've seen dtilt comboing into uair above 120% so this might not be a real problem. Only time will tell.

Good to see you too man, you were one of the go to guys for Sheik knowledge in Brawl.

Bouncing fish is incredible I can't wait to get my hands in the game and see what I can do with it. Also with the new ledge mechanics Sheiks recovery is finally not a detriment to her game.

Movement speed is buffed? That's ridiculous considering her overall speed in Brawl was arguably the best.

Cannot ****ing wait

 

[Tristan_win]

This is purely random but it's funny going though the evolutions of my current avatar and seeing all the little changes I made. Can you see all of them?

Click on the picture to make them bigger.

Spoiler

http://oi57.tinypic.com/29xuu7l.jpg Original picture
Ver 1

Ver 2

Ver 3.5

Ver 4

Ver 4.6 (I decided to leave out 4.1 to 4.5)

Ver 4.7

edit: and yes I'm a complete scrub when it comes to editing pictures but it's a fun little skill to develop which give you a bad ass avatar in the end.

 

[Pawsome!]

Sheik looks like a ton of fun. Settle it with Back air!

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

So I just watched the grand finals of Shockwave 2 and it was Sheik vs. Lil Mac.

Good Lord, Sheik tore him to shreds. She's so fast. Whatever doesn't combo ends up as a viable move in a movestring.

 

[Pawsome!]

So I just watched the grand finals of Shockwave 2 and it was Sheik vs. Lil Mac.

Good Lord, Sheik tore him to shreds. She's so fast. Whatever doesn't combo ends up as a viable move in a movestring.

Yeah man, Denti was pretty masterful with Sheik. Little Mac just can't hang when those chains start tossing him in the air especially around the edge of the stage.

 

[Absol]

This is purely random but it's funny going though the evolutions of my current avatar and seeing all the little changes I made. Can you see all of them?

Click on the picture to make them bigger.

Spoiler

http://oi57.tinypic.com/29xuu7l.jpg Original picture
Ver 1

Ver 2

Ver 3.5

Ver 4

Ver 4.6 (I decided to leave out 4.1 to 4.5)

Ver 4.7

edit: and yes I'm a complete scrub when it comes to editing pictures but it's a fun little skill to develop which give you a bad *** avatar in the end.

Made it transparent. removed the stray hair. Made the hair brighter.

EDIT: made everything brighter.

 

[Absol]

Yeah man, Denti was pretty masterful with Sheik. Little Mac just can't hang when those chains start tossing him in the air especially around the edge of the stage.

I dont know. It seemed like he fell for obvious air dodges and counters a lot.