Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[HoChiMinhTrail]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QqFxTWObg0A

Played Fearless from Florida in a quick mm before leaving, let me know what you kids think, I know I'm just a ganon part-timer and all .

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

the world will explode when @ spider_sense and i get ganondorf dittos on youtube.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ HoChiMinhTrail How come at 4:43 you didn't just grab Falco after the Dsmash? I feel like you could have gotten a guaranteed follow-up from the grab into d-throw, or even at least an upair. Curious as to what you were thinking.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Greedy I guees, trying to get the dair to KO

 

[PseudoTurtle]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QqFxTWObg0A

Played Fearless from Florida in a quick mm before leaving, let me know what you kids think, I know I'm just a ganon part-timer and all .

Learn how to waveland from the ledge scrub

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Lol I can do it, I just forget.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

As much as I try to mix up my ledge game, it seems like your ledge jump --> double jump --> fair seems to be way more effective lmao.

And YO. You ****ed up man. Eddie came out to the last EXP! I thought for sure you were gonna be there. I had to **** talk him all by myself

For those who haven't met Eddie: he's a boss.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Not just a Boss, but the father of Ganondorf.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

^ This is the truth.

 

[tm]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QqFxTWObg0A

Played Fearless from Florida in a quick mm before leaving, let me know what you kids think, I know I'm just a ganon part-timer and all .

He spammed lasers from ledge a lot, so if you know the falco is going to do that, do this.
You whiffed a lot of shield grabs, so try to be more careful with that (especially after shine & laser).
If you become proficient at ledge-teching, you can survive against his dsmash edgeguards while getting a free hit on him.
I think uthrow can be good, but you almost always use it over dthrow, which generally provides better follow up options (unless the uthrow forces them onto a platform if they don't DI behind you [which is a free hit]). If there's no platform then uthrow can always be escaped from with away DI.
He let you go back to battlefield? (what a scrub)
Nice job on the W =)

 

[-ACE-]

http://youtu.be/lJLwafmG-F8

First of 10 friendlies between spider sense and gravy if anyone hasn't seen. Quite entertaining.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ spider_sense Duuude. You did that Wizard's Foot spike to finish Gravy off a little too late. That's what I like to do to finish off Falcon though, cause that high recovery is so linear and predictable that you just aim with your WF and spike the dude. I actually have a good bit of footage of me landing that off-stage spike on the last stock. Would you like to see it? I'm sure you can land it as well, you just have to remember that there's a slight delay to the startup of the WF, but you can easily know where Falcon is going cause that lol linear recovery. You could even practice that on a cpu cause I'm pretty sure CPU Falcon often tries to recover high.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

so i'm gonna start trying to practice something. entirely new project. not sure if any of you technical guys have tried it before, seems a little daunting or impractical tbh, but feels like it could be really useful. trying to commit ledge canceled down b to muscle memory. thoughts? quarrels with this idea? anyone tried it before? feel free to share any useful frame information or animation gifs.

@Magus420 @ spider_sense @ Renth @Bizzarro Flame @ iRanch @ PseudoTurtle

@ spider_sense Duuude. You did that Wizard's Foot spike to finish Gravy off a little too late. That's what I like to do to finish off Falcon though, cause that high recovery is so linear and predictable that you just aim with your WF and spike the dude. I actually have a good bit of footage of me landing that off-stage spike on the last stock. Would you like to see it? I'm sure you can land it as well, you just have to remember that there's a slight delay to the startup of the WF, but you can easily know where Falcon is going cause that lol linear recovery. You could even practice that on a cpu cause I'm pretty sure CPU Falcon often tries to recover high.

you're trying to give advice to spider sense? don't you main sheik or something?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

you're trying to give advice to spider sense? don't you main sheik or something?

Just because I main a different character does not mean I have completely dropped Ganon. I still play him in the Falcon, ICs, mid and low-tiers and Ganon matchup because those are really fun and viable matchups for me. I don't appreciate you dissing me based off of my own personal choices on which character(s) I want to invest my time in. Just because I'm not maining Ganondorf anymore doesn't mean you should treat me any differently. Plus you're using an ad hominem to try to undermine my advice. Cmon man, don't be like that. I still like you guys and I still love Ganon.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

kinda mad that you took me seriously. kinda.

 

[-ACE-]

Loooooooool jason quit doing so well. Ppl don't know howta act

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

forgot to tag you in my post dave. feel free to respond.

 

[-ACE-]

Ian do you mean standing down-b or aerial down-b?

I've played with it using standing down-b. Pretty jank mindgame but I've made it work before. Lulz were had.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

up b. i ****ing meant up b. god i'm so dumb.

 

[Coastward]

i was gonna say, you cant edge cancel down b LOL.

@ n0ne is really good with these, so i thing hes the number 1 candidate for questions.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

up b. i ****ing meant up b. god i'm so dumb.

It's alright, lot's of people confuse up and down.

Like Australians

Or this guy http://xkcd.com/1115/

 

[n0ne]

i was gonna say, you cant edge cancel down b LOL.

@ n0ne is really good with these, so i thing hes the number 1 candidate for questions.

Yea i do them. Picked it up from falcon. Do them on shielding oponents as a command grab. Not much to say other than take note on your positioning and learning to judge when to fade back/lean forward in order to edge cancel on your up b freefall

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i mean for recovering. every ganondorf has at least once, when recovering, ledgecanceled the end of their up b animation and then either grabbed ledge because opponent got up for assuming ganondorf was ****ed, or promptly suicided because "wait wtf just happened?"

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah that ledge cancel is without a doubt worth practicing. Priceless and almost unreadable.

 

[n0ne]

i mean for recovering. every ganondorf has at least once, when recovering, ledgecanceled the end of their up b animation and then either grabbed ledge because opponent got up for assuming ganondorf was ****ed, or promptly suicided because "wait wtf just happened?"

Ah ya i know what u mean. Its easier to do if u reverse up b onto stage at a specific height. Easiest places to practice are FD and stadium. For some reason i do it easier with dorf than falcon

 

[Coastward]

YO I HAD AN EPIPHANY:

from ledge: drop from ledge > jump > immediate reverse up > edge cancel up > aerial

i gotta see if this even works

IT DOESNT WORK T___T

 

[n0ne]

It does but looks slow cuz its dorf right

Also, since ur doing it really high up, its kinda hard to edge cancel that way

 

[tm]

Yeah it's tough but doable. For some reason I find it easier to do on Yoshis & poke (yoshis makes sense because the slant... poke I have no idea, could be a mental thing)
I usually get it when I'm trying to recover on the tip of the ledge vs falcon (to maybe make him misspace the ledgehop knee), and end up getting it accidentally. If anyone masters it, they can definitely increase their recovery rate by a good amount. +1 idea

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Ah ya i know what u mean. Its easier to do if u reverse up b onto stage at a specific height. Easiest places to practice are FD and stadium. For some reason i do it easier with dorf than falcon

Wait, you can do this with ganon? I thought that was only falcon? I didn't actually think you could reverse up-b and land on stage.

Ian, I LOVE when I can edge cancel the up-b. But I can only do it on purpose if I do it on a platform and carry the momentum with me. Whenever it happens on pokemon stadium / yoshi's (the only two it has ever happened for me at the ledge), I can react to it, but I can never predict it. I could see this being incredibly useful though.

Up-b, and, if your opponent knows how to edge guard ganon properly (with certain characters), he will be on the ledge. Edge cancel it, and your opponent will think you just landed on stage, so they will ledge hop into knee / grab / whatever. 99/100 they won't be refreshing their invincibility because ganon's recovery sucks, so pull back, double jump into a fair / bair, depending on distance.

The ganon who can do this on cue will be the next top ganon. I think one of ganon's biggest weaknesses is that in any matchup besides the ditto and falcon, your opponent always has the edge guarding advantage. Except for maybe Roy.

 

[Renth]

@RockCrock ledge cancels his up b on the edge of FD consistently

 

[PseudoTurtle]

God damn it guys, I told you this **** worked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=074ckJE8SEQ#t=1m46s

Also works with up throw. Darkrain combo on falcon. Renth, does he really? If so, that's amazing. **** 20XX fox, this is some 20XX ganon ****. Good ****, Ian, for starting up a useful, inventive discussion topic. Can't remember when was the last time someone figured something cool and useful out that wasn't Tipman.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

So with all this Up-B ledge cancel talk going on, I did a little bit of experimenting and found out that you can consistently Up-B ledge-cancel from the ledge and make it back to center stage. I would advise this only as a mix-up, as there are faster ways to get back on stage, not to mention you're kind of vulnerable when going over the platform, so I'm not sure just how viable this is. What's cool about this is if your opponent insists on being too close to you, then they'll get hugged. If you miss with this Up-B but you ledge-cancel, then that'll probably surprise a good few people.

This is possible only on Battlefield, Yoshi's, and Dreamland.

Up-B Ledge Cancel on Battlefield
Up-B Ledge Cancel on Yoshi's Story
Up-B Ledge Cancel on Dreamland

The descriptions on how to preform these exactly are in each video's description. Start with the Battlefield one.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

That's pretty cool, locke. I'm not sure on the viability though, seeing as his up-b is so slow. I would really only use these if you're getting edge guarded, and not as a recovery tool from the ledge. But, I can experiment with it, as should you and let us know otherwise.

As of now, I've been practicing edge cancelling the up-b on the ledge. Only battlefield so far, but I've been WF recovering before hand to make it more like I was actually doing it in a match.

I have about a 1/10 success rate so far, but it's very viable. Game changer.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i ****in love the ganondorf boards lol, gonna hit the lab asap when i get home. thanks for the vids locke.

 

[spider_sense]

lol Glad everyone enjoyed the sets I had with Gravy, his combo game and conversions off his hit confirms are amazing, I hope I get to play him a lot more. Also, yeah I did that WF a little too late, but cut me some slack. We both just woke up and we were trying to go ham on each other. lol

I've been messing with that upsmash oos vs Gravy as well, it's really good if you think they're going to overcommit with nair, but you have to time it and get the job done quick. Kind of like Goku's kaioken haha.

@ -ACE- Bro, hmu whenever you get into Miami, you always know I'm down to chill and drink. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IUmsre6LR0

 

[spider_sense]

@ RedmanSSBM - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Tfejj8K_U </3

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo. Pokemon stadium is easy as **** to get that edge cancel on, as long as you reverse your up-b. Once you get the positioning down, you can do it so you:

1) land on stage with an edge cancel
2) go OFF stage (yes, even if you're DI'ing towards the stage- it's weird), but still get the edge cancel

What I find to be the case is if you recover a little higher, you get 1, but you sometimes get the landing lag if you start your up-b too high. With 2, it's easier to get, but a little more dangerous, because you're always going to go off stage with it.

With #2, you can theoretically double jump into a bair, as they definitely won't see this coming the first time, or double jump into a waveland. You can probably also just recover straight to the ledge lol because they've probably rolled by now, assuming you to be dead.

Now, if you wanna be the most stylish ************ on the planet, you can edge guard with it. Like @ Coastward said, you can drop from the ledge --> double jump --> reverse up-b --> edge cancel --> drop zone aerial. When you do this, you win the match automatically because you're a BOSS.

It's amazing what I can get done when I have a final tomorrow.

 

[-ACE-]

Yo we gotta hang out tomorrow jason. Blea should be free then too. I'm down to chill then so I'll be ready for vs Wednesday. Haven't played melee since Renth's house LOL

 

[iRanch]

Do any of you guys ASDI down for anything? I never really thought about implementing it into my game and wanted to see what you guys use it for.

 

[-ACE-]

Hell yeah. It's like semi-crouch cancelling. Works just as good as CC for many aporoaches, including falcon nair and Falco ledgehop double lasers.