Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[King Mob]

done exams, that **** was killing me.

now that im gonna have a month of free time, i'm gonna grind out tech skill and make sure my shield drops and ledge dashes are 100%. gonna finish up the Bible as well and start working on some notes.

i might pick up @ RedmanSSBM project with the knockdown %s (unless he's still working on it) as well just so that i can give myself something to do.

I know that feeling, man. I'm 3-4 pages from finishing this essay and once I'm done a couple of friends and I are going to go full hyperbolic time chamber on our Smash games.

 

[Tribulation]

I got a question.
When/if you use the perfect wave land in the neutral to get in. What are some of the things you look for or do in order to use it? It seems that every time I try to do it, I get stuffed. Should I just not use it in the neutral?

 

[Coastward]

I got a question.
When/if you use the perfect wave land in the neutral to get in. What are some of the things you look for or do in order to use it? It seems that every time I try to do it, I get stuffed. Should I just not use it in the neutral?

watch videos of bizzarro flame, he puts them to use the best.

something kinda like this.

you can input jab, ftilt and grab pretty easily during the waveland for them to come out basically at the end of the waveland. its a good mixup to use in the neutral though, so dont stray away from it just because you cant apply it well right now.

 

[Tribulation]

watch videos of bizzarro flame, he puts them to use the best.

something kinda like this.

you can input jab, ftilt and grab pretty easily during the waveland for them to come out basically at the end of the waveland. its a good mixup to use in the neutral though, so dont stray away from it just because you cant apply it well right now.

I have watched bizzarro's matches. I just can't seem to make it work for me. I don't know if I am missing something or not.

 

[King Mob]

I have watched bizzarro's matches. I just can't seem to make it work for me. I don't know if I am missing something or not.

I'd say just try it in friendlies, and try to figure out trial and error.

 

[Moy]

So i was doing so well with ganondorf in certain matchups at TCU. Better than with falcon. ICs and peach specifically. I 3 stocked Kzhu with him. Lost the set cuz of a couple of lucky bombs. No johns tho. Shame it wasnt recorded. I was grabbing every turnip and comboing him back with them. Looked really custom and smooth. Same story vs a good peach from quebec, hungryhurricane. My friendlies aganst kzhu, duck and dzzkidboogie went soooo well tho. No one knows how to play against dorf lol

@ Moy dude, i know. Im a *******.
Today tho. Finally having free time off work. Throw any links u want me to check for u plz, and ill check em tonight.

@ PseudoTurtle thanks. Im getting there. a few dumb spotdodges here and there, but shield dropping really makes the oponent respect u on a platform. They were working nicely against mew2king and IB.

Your decision making against floaties is crazy to watch man. The first match I saw of you was against toast (the peach player, I think) at one weekly, and you were definitely clocking in.

To be honest, I don't even remember what I said that elicited that response from you lol. But i'll definitely link you some of my matches pretty soon - thanks for remembering.

 

[n0ne]

Your decision making against floaties is crazy to watch man. The first match I saw of you was against toast (the peach player, I think) at one weekly, and you were definitely clocking in.

To be honest, I don't even remember what I said that elicited that response from you lol. But i'll definitely link you some of my matches pretty soon - thanks for remembering.

Better late than never. Im still getting used to the north american styles , i may be late but im not an a hole. Im just busy with a new house and **** and paperwork has my time effed.

Anyways , im doing what im able to, looks like my style from back home is appealing here but im too busy getting drunk/ hung over before/ in tournies since some cousins live like 3 houses over, didnt have a setup to try ****e out but got one like 2 weeks ago

Basically work has me effed up right now since im on probation but once that ends (roughly a month and a half left; and doing well atm) ill be a bit more free

Anyways send what u can my way

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ Coastward Feel free to expand on that thread if you wish

 

[-ACE-]

Lol n0ne is the homie. Glad you're almost off the probe

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Is there a compilation of frame data that includes stun and hitlag variables?

 

[X WaNtEd X]

hey so how many of you guys are based in miami? i'm potentially going on a trip there the first week of january to stay with a friend at the university of miami and would love to log some hours with some of the florida dorfs.

 

[tauKhan]

Is there a compilation of frame data that includes stun and hitlag variables?

For general mechanics frame data, or in fact for most data, my go to thread is this: http://smashboards.com/threads/2014-ssbm-compendium-of-knowledge-updated-1-2-14.339520/

The op has a link to this thread http://smashboards.com/threads/tool...n-hitlag-shieldstun-calculation-v1-11.324878/ which should answer your specific questions. Hope this helps.

 

[tm]

I have watched bizzarro's matches. I just can't seem to make it work for me. I don't know if I am missing something or not.

It's not a perfect way to get up; if your opponent expects you to do it, they can easily put a hitbox there and stuff you with good timing. If this is the case then just get up on ledge, as they'll have given you enough space to just stand up or ledgehop up. Now if they attack you after that, you can mix them up with runoff ledge -> DJ bair, reverse ledge dash, roll in, dash attack, etc. (depends on the situation). Also try invincible waveland -> roll in. Gets you to center stage, usually beyond the space that anyone tries to cover when you're on the ledge.

There is also the chance that you are doing it way too late from the ledge grab and therefore have no invincibility.

Is there a compilation of frame data that includes stun and hitlag variables?

The stuff tauKhan posted is amazing. Gonna have to read through a lot of that.
Here is the simplified KB formula.
Hitstun = KB * 0.4 (multiply by 1.5 for electric attacks like ganon dair, falcon knee, shine)
A bunch of data featuring knockback angle, base knockback, knockback growth, and other **** for perhaps every move can be found here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/kwbkgsdok1dekd7/SSBM_Hitboxes_(NTSC_1.0)_&_Knockback_1.5k.xlsx

Credit to Kadano for everything I posted.

 

[-ACE-]

hey so how many of you guys are based in miami? i'm potentially going on a trip there the first week of january to stay with a friend at the university of miami and would love to log some hours with some of the florida dorfs.

I'm in miami right now lol. But i'll probably still be in NY then. I'm in miami fairly often when on time off. It's just hit and miss. Spider_sense is always around.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

It's hard to fathom, but there are a lot of Ganondorf mains who are close to being a Ganon god. n0ne is no exception especially if he concentrates solely on Ganon.

2015 will be an interesting year for Ganondorf

Edit: Looking at everyone's join date for SWF makes me feel old. But not as old as WhatIsFear, whose account is a several months older than my account.

 

[Coastward]

i took a game off kage am i a ganom god yet?

 

[tm]

Ganon god = can sometimes beat 'good' high tier players

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon god = placing in single digits at nationals like linguini and kage have.

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon god = placing in single digits at nationals like linguini and kage have.

 

[n0ne]

It's hard to fathom, but there are a lot of Ganondorf mains who are close to being a Ganon god. n0ne is no exception especially if he concentrates solely on Ganon.

2015 will be an interesting year for Ganondorf

Edit: Looking at everyone's join date for SWF makes me feel old. But not as old as WhatIsFear, whose account is a several months older than my account.

The only reason i go falcon a bit more than dorf is cuz when i go dorf, effin noooo one approaches. I will usually go dorf one game, see if theyre not approaching, and usually just get pissed and then go falcon the next game and tech chase like theres no tomorrow. But it actually works that i dualmain, since i can cover CPs with two different characters.

The bad thing about dorf is that, even tho i feel hes MORE rewarding than falcon when played right, u can get punished soooo much harder than with falcon

There are a few specific matchups that ill ONLY go dorf , and the one true matchup i LOVE as dorf is vs falco. Ppl hate it, but i love it

And **** fox

 

[n0ne]

2x post

@ spider_sense theres a fellow nicaraguan i play with down in miami atm have u played him yet? he uses dorf too but he's really old school. We all make fun of him back home, call him the ´80s guy´
the dumb a$$ uses cr7 as his tag lolol

 

[Renth]

You aren't a ganon god unless you devote your entire ganondorf future to our lord and master Kage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a10YL2WK6ig

 

[Laharl's_Wrath]

I'm starting to question some of the playstyle-specific advice people have been giving me and I've finally gotten around to ordering some stuff so hopefully starting next week or the week after I'm going to try to record when playing friendlies

and while it's mostly to watch and pick up on my habits myself getting ganon-specific advice from ganon mains here would be nice

I'm also starting to legitimately get annoyed at people telling me to stop playing ganon that **** gets old fast
although I do find it funny that I get asked why I dont play ICs fairly often in conversation because I'm always talking about and advocating chaingrabs-they're guaranteed if you can react goddamnit don't talk to me about multishining or other technical fox bull**** and then brush off ganon chaingrabs like they aren't worth learning or important
If learning the hard but better option is worthwhile for a better character with more useful options than it's damn well worth learning for a character with less options
especially the easy ones like on sheik and ganon
idk it's been said here a million times but chaingrabs are so good and it's such an important tool to have even just for the mental aspect (great way to force myself to look at DI and subsequently DI habits and hell it's a short period of time in total control to sort of reevaluate things and get a brief breather idk chaingrabs are good **** and I'm rambling and ranting I wish the falco and fox ones werent so damn brutal)

edit: just needed to vent

 

[spider_sense]

Alchemist, you know me, man
I'm the type of ***** that write rhymes
Right on the spot in the studio soon as I hear the track
You know what I'm sayin'?
Word, but I wanted to bring a couple of books
To the studio today, man, I found these ****s
Up in the crib, man, in boxes, man
I don't even remember when I was writing these ****s
Or what's in these ****s, man, probably a bunch of bull****
**** it, check it
How can I trust you when I can't trust me?
Picture myself a old man, a O.G.
Some ****** will conversate with liers all day, time pass
Nah, lemme start somethin' else
Soul on ice, death threats given by clowns
I guess livin' is prison when you live around clowns
I'm hexed, cursed, worse I been blessed first
I thought I was abnormal
'Cause I would overcome any task called to
So there it is, I'ma prince, I'ma get slain
Some do minor ****, swear they on the top of they game
Ya rhymin' is called 'Vagina Monologue'
It kinda supports theories of scary ******
Who should lie in the morgue
Rarely y'all come in contact with the real
Since Pun passed, he was the last shine of sun I could feel
Yo, said, "There's a few left since music's expressions of life"
Damn, I wish I took more time to write in my Book of Rhymes
Oh ****, Tina, been lookin' for this ***** number, damn
No, this rhyme is weak, this is weak
I remember this bull****, right here
My Book of Rhymes
Gandhi was a, what the ****?
Gandhi was a fool, *****, fight to the death
The US Army is a school that teach ya plights of conquest
I wonder when I wrote this, nah it's weak
The money's ya religion, sky's the limit, live life
Numbers is big business, makes the poor live trife
The glimmers of hope provoke those without dollars to dream
Through your existence become wealthy, knowledge is king
Pimps and card, sharks, thiefs, murderers with hard luck
Addicts and fiends, prostitutes passin' for teens is my society
Cops that shoot blacks is routine for notoriety
Grow up watchin' well dressed ****** with charms
Beautiful ladies on their arms
Dangerous new cars was my fantasy for Nas
Rubbin' my lips with Campophenique
Still behind the ears wet, turned out to be pioneer's vets
Amongst hustlers, crack sellers and liers and squares
Nah, that was weak there
My people be projects or jail, never Harvard or Yale
Pardon me, type in my two way while I'm chargin' my cell
It's hard to be iced up with Gucci, God, poverty's real
I can't fight you 'cause you would sue me, ****** be groupies
I see imitators tryin' to make albums spittin' my style
And they don't even realize that I notice they stealin' Nas' ****
I pump some Rick James with that Teena Marie
My Nina lean on me like Swoop, it's crap
This can't be my Book of Rhymes
This can't be my Book of Rhymes, writin' this bull****!
My Book of Rhymes
Nah, neva that, **** that, aww, why you laughin' Alchemist?
Huh, you a funny *****, nah, yeah
My Book of Rhymes
I'm tellin' you, I'ma come up with some new **** now
**** that, I'ma write again now, **** that
I musta been high on some ****
What the **** is this?
Look, how we treat pregnancy, women in the 'hood
Our values so low, our values are no good
Things our mothers told us, we shoulda heeded
'Cause now we need it, we older, almost able to
I'm jealous of you, how come you so beautiful?
Smelling fresh, youthful, intelligent while I'm stressin' this ****
Aiyo, I envy you 'cause all you do is smile and things come your way
"Such a innocent child", is what some say
I get upset 'cause I just want to be treated the way you are
Like a star, not a worry in this world thus far
But wait a minute, we both need ya mother's attention
I must be crazy, jealous of my own baby infant, kinda crazy

 

[Moy]

Better late than never. Im still getting used to the north american styles , i may be late but im not an a hole. Im just busy with a new house and **** and paperwork has my time effed.

Anyways , im doing what im able to, looks like my style from back home is appealing here but im too busy getting drunk/ hung over before/ in tournies since some cousins live like 3 houses over, didnt have a setup to try ****e out but got one like 2 weeks ago

Basically work has me effed up right now since im on probation but once that ends (roughly a month and a half left; and doing well atm) ill be a bit more free

Anyways send what u can my way

I'll just post them from new to old, I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l0K7pQsRGQ

Vs. my friend Harrythechin. I think I posted this on the last page. He goes Fox then Link - I end up winning, but like I said, I still feel like there are things I can improve upon from this set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRi3PKDkxnQ

Vs. Gravy. Of course, this is mad short since he ran a train on me. I went Falcon 2nd game, where I felt like I could keep up with him a tad better, but he still 3 stocked me. I think a lot of bad habits show in this set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNamQ5fm5gk

Vs. Cheato, who I would say is the best Peach in Chicago, even Illinois maybe (i'm not sure if @ PseudoTurtle has played him). He's definitely the best one who shows up to EXP, and he's had my number against both Ganon and Falcon. This was back when I played Falcon more, but I've faced him more recently with Ganon and feel as though I'm getting closer to a win.

Critique for any of them would be cool.

 

[spider_sense]

Alchemist, you know me, man
I'm the type of ***** that write rhymes
Right on the spot in the studio soon as I hear the track
You know what I'm sayin'?
Word, but I wanted to bring a couple of books
To the studio today, man, I found these ****s
Up in the crib, man, in boxes, man
I don't even remember when I was writing these ****s
Or what's in these ****s, man, probably a bunch of bull****
**** it, check it
How can I trust you when I can't trust me?
Picture myself a old man, a O.G.
Some *****s will conversate with liers all day, time pass
Nah, lemme start somethin' else
Soul on ice, death threats given by clowns
I guess livin' is prison when you live around clowns
I'm hexed, cursed, worse I been blessed first
I thought I was abnormal
'Cause I would overcome any task called to
So there it is, I'ma prince, I'ma get slain
Some do minor ****, swear they on the top of they game
Ya rhymin' is called 'Vagina Monologue'
It kinda supports theories of scary *****s
Who should lie in the morgue
Rarely y'all come in contact with the real
Since Pun passed, he was the last shine of sun I could feel
Yo, said, "There's a few left since music's expressions of life"
Damn, I wish I took more time to write in my Book of Rhymes
Oh ****, Tina, been lookin' for this ***** number, damn
No, this rhyme is weak, this is weak
I remember this bull****, right here
My Book of Rhymes
Gandhi was a, what the ****?
Gandhi was a fool, *****, fight to the death
The US Army is a school that teach ya plights of conquest
I wonder when I wrote this, nah it's weak
The money's ya religion, sky's the limit, live life
Numbers is big business, makes the poor live trife
The glimmers of hope provoke those without dollars to dream
Through your existence become wealthy, knowledge is king
Pimps and card, sharks, thiefs, murderers with hard luck
Addicts and fiends, prostitutes passin' for teens is my society
Cops that shoot blacks is routine for notoriety
Grow up watchin' well dressed *****s with charms
Beautiful ladies on their arms
Dangerous new cars was my fantasy for Nas
Rubbin' my lips with Campophenique
Still behind the ears wet, turned out to be pioneer's vets
Amongst hustlers, crack sellers and liers and squares
Nah, that was weak there
My people be projects or jail, never Harvard or Yale
Pardon me, type in my two way while I'm chargin' my cell
It's hard to be iced up with Gucci, God, poverty's real
I can't fight you 'cause you would sue me, *****s be groupies
I see imitators tryin' to make albums spittin' my style
And they don't even realize that I notice they stealin' Nas' ****
I pump some Rick James with that Teena Marie
My Nina lean on me like Swoop, it's crap
This can't be my Book of Rhymes
This can't be my Book of Rhymes, writin' this bull****!
My Book of Rhymes
Nah, neva that, **** that, aww, why you laughin' Alchemist?
Huh, you a funny *****, nah, yeah
My Book of Rhymes
I'm tellin' you, I'ma come up with some new **** now
**** that, I'ma write again now, **** that
I musta been high on some ****
What the **** is this?
Look, how we treat pregnancy, women in the 'hood
Our values so low, our values are no good
Things our mothers told us, we shoulda heeded
'Cause now we need it, we older, almost able to
I'm jealous of you, how come you so beautiful?
Smelling fresh, youthful, intelligent while I'm stressin' this ****
Aiyo, I envy you 'cause all you do is smile and things come your way
"Such a innocent child", is what some say
I get upset 'cause I just want to be treated the way you are
Like a star, not a worry in this world thus far
But wait a minute, we both need ya mother's attention
I must be crazy, jealous of my own baby infant, kinda crazy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUMoC0QA1xI lol

 

[SwiftNinjaBlackMan]

I'm starting to question some of the playstyle-specific advice people have been giving me and I've finally gotten around to ordering some stuff so hopefully starting next week or the week after I'm going to try to record when playing friendlies

and while it's mostly to watch and pick up on my habits myself getting ganon-specific advice from ganon mains here would be nice

I'm also starting to legitimately get annoyed at people telling me to stop playing ganon that **** gets old fast
although I do find it funny that I get asked why I dont play ICs fairly often in conversation because I'm always talking about and advocating chaingrabs-they're guaranteed if you can react goddamnit don't talk to me about multishining or other technical fox bull**** and then brush off ganon chaingrabs like they aren't worth learning or important
If learning the hard but better option is worthwhile for a better character with more useful options than it's damn well worth learning for a character with less options
especially the easy ones like on sheik and ganon
idk it's been said here a million times but chaingrabs are so good and it's such an important tool to have even just for the mental aspect (great way to force myself to look at DI and subsequently DI habits and hell it's a short period of time in total control to sort of reevaluate things and get a brief breather idk chaingrabs are good **** and I'm rambling and ranting I wish the falco and fox ones werent so damn brutal)

edit: just needed to vent

Did you go to Neb on sat? yo it was crazy i played hax in friendlies and killed him in 5 seconds...that was greatest thing i have ever done in smash.

 

[Laharl's_Wrath]

Did you go to Neb on sat? yo it was crazy i played hax in friendlies and killed him in 5 seconds...that was greatest thing i have ever done in smash.

nice, and no I couldn't make it had some other obligations
going to try and go next Saturday assuming nothing comes up between now and then

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yep, @ Moy he was of the first I've ever played in the Chicago scene back in 2012 when I first started playing. I would absolutely give him best peach in Illinois. I've only ever played him in tournament one time though, he 2-0'd me.

To be honest, though, I think I can no doubt go even with him with a little more peach practice, I just have problems with the matchup. I beat Sago, who I don't think he's ever beaten and then a couple other players who've beaten him. Not that that means much in the long run, but it shows the potential is there.

Practice up, learn that ridiculous matchup, take names.

On another note, he's one of the coolest smashers I've chilled with so far. Protip: if you go to a regional that he's at, gravitate towards his room after tournament hours- it's basically a liquor store.

 

[Divinokage]

The only reason i go falcon a bit more than dorf is cuz when i go dorf, effin noooo one approaches. I will usually go dorf one game, see if theyre not approaching, and usually just get pissed and then go falcon the next game and tech chase like theres no tomorrow. But it actually works that i dualmain, since i can cover CPs with two different characters.

The bad thing about dorf is that, even tho i feel hes MORE rewarding than falcon when played right, u can get punished soooo much harder than with falcon

There are a few specific matchups that ill ONLY go dorf , and the one true matchup i LOVE as dorf is vs falco. Ppl hate it, but i love it

And **** fox

Well why would anyone approach Ganon.. you get hit 3 times and you're dead. lol. This is the life.

Though I dont see how Ganon gets more punished than Falcon. Both have pretty much terrible defenses except the roll lol. If you master DI, Ganon should do just fine too.

 

[Skoomie]

Well why would anyone approach Ganon...

To do this is most often suicide. Any one person with the courage to approach The Dorf will meet the hard, swift justice of F-air -> F-air -> D-air.

 

[spider_sense]

I just played Gravy while in Orlando this weekend, our sets got recorded and whatnot. I would post them, but I'm too sure how Gravy would take it since they were just friendlies.

 

[Skoomie]

I just played Gravy while in Orlando this weekend, our sets got recorded and whatnot. I would post them, but I'm too sure how Gravy would take it since they were just friendlies.

Post them.

 

[-ACE-]

Seriously, post that sh*t. No room for fragile ego's around here lol. I'm sure gravy won't give a sh*t. Friendlies are friendlies.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Ganon god = placing in single digits at nationals like linguini and kage have.

Kings of Cali 4, where I placed 9th, is classified as a national because Armada and a lot of out of country and out of state smashers were there. As a side note, the previous Kings of Cali tourneys are not classified as nationals.

I'll get a single digit placement again at another national regardless.

 

[Divinokage]

Kings of Cali 4, where I placed 9th, is classified as a national because Armada and a lot of out of country and out of state smashers were there. As a side note, the previous Kings of Cali tourneys are not classified as nationals.

I'll get a single digit placement again at another national regardless.

Who did you beat to get there?

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

You aren't a ganon god unless you devote your entire ganondorf future to our lord and master Kage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a10YL2WK6ig

Well, you will have a new lord and master, and yes, I will be a kind and wise ruler.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Who did you beat to get there?

Lovage, Pspirit (Amsa's teammate), Hugs, almost beat Mango in a set (unrecorded). Yeah not that impressive of a run I admit, but like you always say Kage, it's about the result that matters.

 

[Divinokage]

Lovage, Pspirit (Amsa's teammate), Hugs, almost beat Mango in a set (unrecorded). Yeah not that impressive of a run I admit, but like you always say Kage, it's about the result that matters.

I always say that? hmm.. lol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I just played Gravy while in Orlando this weekend, our sets got recorded and whatnot. I would post them, but I'm too sure how Gravy would take it since they were just friendlies.

Got to it before you took it down

I don't think gravy would mind all that much, he seemed really cool when I played him years ago. Besides, there was some pretty good **** on his end also.