Coastward
Smash Lord
there any ways to practice techchasing? or will it get better the more i play?
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Practice against CPUs to get the timing on the stomp. They never tech. Other than that, just look at ACE's tech chasing thread and implement in practice.
Renth
Smash Hero
Wish I could tell you, I'm only good vs. floaties. My spacie game is sub-par.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
This week's tournament at versus... also the last one i'll be attending in at least 6 weeks. I'm going back to NC soon for work for a minimum of 4 weeks, we'll see after that, but my plans are to visit Miami again. I didn't have any matches on stream this time. I lost an extremely close Ganon ditto with Spider_Sense, and lost to a decent Marth later in the night.
http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/b/550552510
06:26:40 - Spider_Sense vs Lambchops
08:01:45 - Spider_Sense vs The Author (falco)
08:29:00 - Spider_Sense vs Blea Gelo (luigi)
http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/b/550552510
06:26:40 - Spider_Sense vs Lambchops
08:01:45 - Spider_Sense vs The Author (falco)
08:29:00 - Spider_Sense vs Blea Gelo (luigi)
Coastward
Smash Lord
its so enjoyable watching spider_sense play
too bad these matches dont get uploaded to youtube, itd be sweet if i could add them to my super playlist.
too bad these matches dont get uploaded to youtube, itd be sweet if i could add them to my super playlist.
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
If you could hear Jason's Ganondorf laugh irl you'd swear he was Ganon himself (get bodied kage), lmao.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Jason vs chops
06:30:19 - Jason, chops is probably ready for you edge game more than any other falco. Given I don't use RLD enough, you can use too much against someone like chops who is ready (more likely to get punished). Chops is really good at keeping the correct distance from the ledge and stays active, seemingly recklessly, but calculated... he's hard to read. Don't forget all your ledge options. You already have the hard ones down. Throw stuff at him he's not used to seeing, like simply a fast ledge hop to SHFFL'd fair or jump and waveland straight down on the platform to instant drop-through fair/uair.
Here's a new ledge option no one does I've messed around with. So technically it's possible to RLD on BF and perfect waveland on the lower platform afterwards, but it's Ganon's most difficult tech in the game. You have to RLD (which already requires you go from forward to backward with the joystick frame-perfect or close to it), then frame-perfect slam the joystick back to forward again as you DJ otherwise you don't be far enough forward to land on the platform. It is a lot easier (and slower, but hear me out) to just ledgehop (the safest ledge option of all) and WD backwards into DJ (while holding forward) and perfect waveland on the lower platform. You don't even have to waveland on the lower platform, just landing there is good and safer in a lot of situations, setting you up for easier-to-space aerials.
There's that, and ledge-dash to shield. Easily punished if they know it's coming but I don't think lambchops did. He did a lot of attacking when reading your ledge dash (not a ton of grabbing).
You know when it's safe to stall on the ledge and when it's not. Don't get impatient, stall (if you're able to) until he leaves an option uncovered and take it.
Also, his shortened illusion is too good. We need to put a stop to that lol. He does it so often I'd be tempted to go for the hard read and stomp that sh**. I don't know. There are also ways to cover all illusion lengths with reverse uair if you are close enough and are able to react in time but it is hard. I'll watch more and talk to you later
Also at 06:30:41 - those illusions like that are hard to get... the only thing you could have done there is run, SH dair, non-fastfalled. Maybe you could have edgecancelled it also and covered any follow up after a tech/meteor cancelled.
06:30:19 - Jason, chops is probably ready for you edge game more than any other falco. Given I don't use RLD enough, you can use too much against someone like chops who is ready (more likely to get punished). Chops is really good at keeping the correct distance from the ledge and stays active, seemingly recklessly, but calculated... he's hard to read. Don't forget all your ledge options. You already have the hard ones down. Throw stuff at him he's not used to seeing, like simply a fast ledge hop to SHFFL'd fair or jump and waveland straight down on the platform to instant drop-through fair/uair.
Here's a new ledge option no one does I've messed around with. So technically it's possible to RLD on BF and perfect waveland on the lower platform afterwards, but it's Ganon's most difficult tech in the game. You have to RLD (which already requires you go from forward to backward with the joystick frame-perfect or close to it), then frame-perfect slam the joystick back to forward again as you DJ otherwise you don't be far enough forward to land on the platform. It is a lot easier (and slower, but hear me out) to just ledgehop (the safest ledge option of all) and WD backwards into DJ (while holding forward) and perfect waveland on the lower platform. You don't even have to waveland on the lower platform, just landing there is good and safer in a lot of situations, setting you up for easier-to-space aerials.
There's that, and ledge-dash to shield. Easily punished if they know it's coming but I don't think lambchops did. He did a lot of attacking when reading your ledge dash (not a ton of grabbing).
You know when it's safe to stall on the ledge and when it's not. Don't get impatient, stall (if you're able to) until he leaves an option uncovered and take it.
Also, his shortened illusion is too good. We need to put a stop to that lol. He does it so often I'd be tempted to go for the hard read and stomp that sh**. I don't know. There are also ways to cover all illusion lengths with reverse uair if you are close enough and are able to react in time but it is hard. I'll watch more and talk to you later
Also at 06:30:41 - those illusions like that are hard to get... the only thing you could have done there is run, SH dair, non-fastfalled. Maybe you could have edgecancelled it also and covered any follow up after a tech/meteor cancelled.
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Superspright
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,334
I'm definitely going to Zenith. I hope I see some of you there.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,833
I'm going to vouch for Spider_Sense's laugh. Definitely makes you think he's Ganondorf.
Dave, if you can talk someone from the Raleigh area into driving out where you are, I'm down for playing some time while you're in NC.
Also, I'll be at Zenith. If my shirt has arrived by then, look for the guy with a shirt that says "RPR KirbyLover69" on the back. If it hasn't, just look for a dude with a purple dress shirt. There can't be more than one.
Dave, if you can talk someone from the Raleigh area into driving out where you are, I'm down for playing some time while you're in NC.
Also, I'll be at Zenith. If my shirt has arrived by then, look for the guy with a shirt that says "RPR KirbyLover69" on the back. If it hasn't, just look for a dude with a purple dress shirt. There can't be more than one.
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Coastward
Smash Lord
scrapped my zenith plans to make my bh4 plans
Coastward
Smash Lord
quick questions about the puff MU:
1) what should i do if i start getting pressured down by a WOP? WDOOS? roll?
2) what are my better options when i crouch cancel? grab? and is it generally good to crouch cancel?
3) is it better to be above puff or under puff?
1) what should i do if i start getting pressured down by a WOP? WDOOS? roll?
2) what are my better options when i crouch cancel? grab? and is it generally good to crouch cancel?
3) is it better to be above puff or under puff?
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Word, that's cool raph. I'll be living in Nags Head basically. I think starting thursday. I'll let NC know whats up once I know for sure.
Coast:
1. WOP is easy to "get away" from, it's just learning to deal with it. The entire matchup is neutral game, so the faster you are the better (the more often you are to find a "hole" in the wall by catching her off guard). Shielding for very brief periods of time (when you expect the bair) can be good, and wd OoS is hardly ever bad lol... but rolls can be read so you can't get predictable with those. Dashing away is great as well, it just all depends on her position and what would work best to counter her most likely next approach considering the circumstances.
2. Out of a CC, grab can be risky, as it almost always is in this matchup. You can low ftilt, or even dtilt out of CC if she's landing with a poorly spaced aerial. I still have to explore crouch canceling a little more in this matchup... I know that generally it is good, but there may be drawbacks where it can lead to only semi-safe situations I'm unaware of (I don't play hbox or a really good puff often).
3. under puff, all day. under almost any character. Ganon's uair is straight cash money flying out the ATM. never fails. uair and bair are great, but puff can get under sh bairs and wreak havoc sometimes. Like I said it is all neutral game. Stage positioning means a ton.
Whenever puff is higher than you, you should be closing in for a uair (carefully; be aware of baits). Even with you is ok, but you need to keep more distance from her (enough so you can react and bair/uair an approach... practice pivot bairs), and if she's below you, you could be trying to safely get back to the ground without forcing an exchance, typically.
Coast:
1. WOP is easy to "get away" from, it's just learning to deal with it. The entire matchup is neutral game, so the faster you are the better (the more often you are to find a "hole" in the wall by catching her off guard). Shielding for very brief periods of time (when you expect the bair) can be good, and wd OoS is hardly ever bad lol... but rolls can be read so you can't get predictable with those. Dashing away is great as well, it just all depends on her position and what would work best to counter her most likely next approach considering the circumstances.
2. Out of a CC, grab can be risky, as it almost always is in this matchup. You can low ftilt, or even dtilt out of CC if she's landing with a poorly spaced aerial. I still have to explore crouch canceling a little more in this matchup... I know that generally it is good, but there may be drawbacks where it can lead to only semi-safe situations I'm unaware of (I don't play hbox or a really good puff often).
3. under puff, all day. under almost any character. Ganon's uair is straight cash money flying out the ATM. never fails. uair and bair are great, but puff can get under sh bairs and wreak havoc sometimes. Like I said it is all neutral game. Stage positioning means a ton.
Whenever puff is higher than you, you should be closing in for a uair (carefully; be aware of baits). Even with you is ok, but you need to keep more distance from her (enough so you can react and bair/uair an approach... practice pivot bairs), and if she's below you, you could be trying to safely get back to the ground without forcing an exchance, typically.
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cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
Finally had some results. Had little local tournament. Ended up 3rd and did really well, almost ended up beating a good falcon. It was a 3 out of 5 and last stock of the last game. Wrecked the spacies there and ended up beating a few people that i wasnt sure at first. Definitely a breakthrough tonight. I am learning that sometimes jumping for an aerial is bad and to keep tilting if iam in grab range. That was less punishable i was finding, with mixups of course.
cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
Played a few puffs today too
Hey guys, I stalk this thread like all the time. Becuase I play teh Dorf.
I'm from MA and road tripping out to the midwest. Going through the states of CT, NY, NJ, PA, MD, WV, OH, IN, IL. If any of you guys wanna live in those states and wanna play, hit me up and I'll swing by!
I'm from MA and road tripping out to the midwest. Going through the states of CT, NY, NJ, PA, MD, WV, OH, IN, IL. If any of you guys wanna live in those states and wanna play, hit me up and I'll swing by!
Coastward
Smash Lord
pretty sure theres a few ganons to hit up in the midwest.
trail, ripple, skytch, im probably forgetting people and i feel bad for doing so.
trail, ripple, skytch, im probably forgetting people and i feel bad for doing so.
MosthatedinNC
Dorsey
- Joined
- May 7, 2014
- Messages
- 111
PseudoTurtle is MW... Trail plays some ganon, but I think ripple does a lot less.
And skytch is NC.. although you can have him if you really want him midwest
And skytch is NC.. although you can have him if you really want him midwest
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Yep, me and ripple live in Champaign, IL and we'd be down to play for sure. Just post up on the boards!
Trail is in in Indiana, but near Chicago (with kels, orly, etc.)
Trail is in in Indiana, but near Chicago (with kels, orly, etc.)
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spider_sense
Smash Champion
@
-ACE-
That was the tech I was trying to explain to you on our way to Clay's lol, You just put it in better words than me. Also man, you're right I was getting mixed up with Lambchop's approaches and I missed a lot of opportunities that I should have capitalized on. I think at a certain moment it's really easy to get into my head if you're equal or above my level. That's something I really have to change, so I need to be able to adapt faster and make adjustments to my own gameplay. All the advice you gave me really, really helped me out. Lol I don't think I would have been able to beat both the chops if you hadn't stepped in.
That ****ing laugh. You guys won't ever let me live it down. Lmao! Ace would literally go on the sound test menu and pick the laugh when I'm playing out sets. **** was priceless, I don't want to spam it because I don't want it to lose its charm. Also, our set was mad close and all I have to say about that is D-smash-Up-smash-u-air-u-air is now considered the "-Ace-" combo. lol I'm gonna try to replicate it again in your honor at the next Versus tourney. I'm glad you made it back to Carolina safely, I owe you a lot as a player and as a friend. Can't wait to wreck **** with you again if you do decide to come back to Miami.
@ L Linguini - Do me a favor dude, and watch my sets vs Chops and Blea. I could really use your input on those matchups and what you might have done differently. I just need another opinion from another solid G-main and if anybody else feels like they can add the piece then feel free to critique. I could use all the help I can get
-ACE-
That was the tech I was trying to explain to you on our way to Clay's lol, You just put it in better words than me. Also man, you're right I was getting mixed up with Lambchop's approaches and I missed a lot of opportunities that I should have capitalized on. I think at a certain moment it's really easy to get into my head if you're equal or above my level. That's something I really have to change, so I need to be able to adapt faster and make adjustments to my own gameplay. All the advice you gave me really, really helped me out. Lol I don't think I would have been able to beat both the chops if you hadn't stepped in.That ****ing laugh. You guys won't ever let me live it down. Lmao! Ace would literally go on the sound test menu and pick the laugh when I'm playing out sets. **** was priceless, I don't want to spam it because I don't want it to lose its charm. Also, our set was mad close and all I have to say about that is D-smash-Up-smash-u-air-u-air is now considered the "-Ace-" combo. lol I'm gonna try to replicate it again in your honor at the next Versus tourney. I'm glad you made it back to Carolina safely, I owe you a lot as a player and as a friend. Can't wait to wreck **** with you again if you do decide to come back to Miami.
@ L Linguini - Do me a favor dude, and watch my sets vs Chops and Blea. I could really use your input on those matchups and what you might have done differently. I just need another opinion from another solid G-main and if anybody else feels like they can add the piece then feel free to critique. I could use all the help I can get
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
Back from vacation and caught up on all the reading. Not playing this game for a whole week feels... interesting. I'm hoping I'm not rusty.
I also had an idea about how to tech-chase mid-level players with downthrow. I remember M2K telling me a while ago at TFC that you should never do two things in a row. I thought about that advice and applied it to down-throw tech-chasing on spacies. I figured that if you miss with the first tech-chase of getting the fair on the DI and tech away (I want to see if I can dair that ****, cause then I could get more out of it). But basically, if you do not get the read, then you can start analyzing how your opponent techs and pick up on habits. If he teched back, then that means the next move I could do is down-smash since that will cover 3 options minus the DI and tech away option. He's already seen me go for the fair/dair read if he were to DI and tech away, and therefore he thinks he's safe if he doesn't tech that way again. He might change it up slightly, but that's where I can take advantage. Of course this will most likely not work on higher level players, but it's something I really want to get good at. I want to be so damn good with that tech-chase read and manipulating my opponent to do what I want like tech towards the ledge, get daired and then down-b spike.
I also had an idea about how to tech-chase mid-level players with downthrow. I remember M2K telling me a while ago at TFC that you should never do two things in a row. I thought about that advice and applied it to down-throw tech-chasing on spacies. I figured that if you miss with the first tech-chase of getting the fair on the DI and tech away (I want to see if I can dair that ****, cause then I could get more out of it). But basically, if you do not get the read, then you can start analyzing how your opponent techs and pick up on habits. If he teched back, then that means the next move I could do is down-smash since that will cover 3 options minus the DI and tech away option. He's already seen me go for the fair/dair read if he were to DI and tech away, and therefore he thinks he's safe if he doesn't tech that way again. He might change it up slightly, but that's where I can take advantage. Of course this will most likely not work on higher level players, but it's something I really want to get good at. I want to be so damn good with that tech-chase read and manipulating my opponent to do what I want like tech towards the ledge, get daired and then down-b spike.
Linguini
Smash Master
![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
so i beat lambchops aka beer master 2-0 in the final bracket of this florida monthly. ganondorf vs falco. and now lambchops is in grand finals after beating colbol and everyone else here.
sup @ L Linguini and @
spider_sense
sup @ L Linguini and @
spider_sense
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Linguini
Smash Master
Good ****. But sup, been there done that
cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
Well i choked a little on my first real tournament ever. Was def nervous oh well next time. This was at melee night in canada in toronto
oh well next time. This was at melee night in canada in toronto
Coastward
Smash Lord
I ****ING HATE MELEE HOLY ****
ok so pools went as expected; got third seed. almost got 4th cuz i was getting chaingrabbed by G&W somehow and almost lost. my pool also had 6 falcos...
got 5th in teams with a buddy of mine. i think im startin to appreciate dubs more, it just feels right and i do so much better compared to singles.
singles bracket was meh. i had to play that mario from florida 1st round, AND I WOULD WON 2-0 IF I DIDNT GET A PHANTOM DAIR OFF STAGE. it was so bad that it got into my head and i ended up losing the set. then i beat some scrub. then i had to play a really good falco, went 0-2. hard life. this tourney definitely gave me a reality check and that i need to put in so much more work if i need to be considered a good player.
also, a ganon named reggie got 9th, not sure if any of you know him. people are saying im better than him and i just had a hard bracket but whateverrrrrrr.
I HATE THIS VIDEO GAME.
ok so pools went as expected; got third seed. almost got 4th cuz i was getting chaingrabbed by G&W somehow and almost lost. my pool also had 6 falcos...
got 5th in teams with a buddy of mine. i think im startin to appreciate dubs more, it just feels right and i do so much better compared to singles.
singles bracket was meh. i had to play that mario from florida 1st round, AND I WOULD WON 2-0 IF I DIDNT GET A PHANTOM DAIR OFF STAGE. it was so bad that it got into my head and i ended up losing the set. then i beat some scrub. then i had to play a really good falco, went 0-2. hard life. this tourney definitely gave me a reality check and that i need to put in so much more work if i need to be considered a good player.
also, a ganon named reggie got 9th, not sure if any of you know him. people are saying im better than him and i just had a hard bracket but whateverrrrrrr.
I HATE THIS VIDEO GAME.
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
all i'm tryna say is people should stop talking like jason is the only ganondorf prodigy. at least i travel lolGood ****. But sup, been there done that
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
what's up fellow ganons. i was busy a f in june and lost a lot of my skill, but i've been working hard to get back up to where i was before. i had to get bodied pretty badly at some locals, but i'm making my progress. i went from getting 2-0'd at this event to 17th pretty fast, and i think i'm gonna take 13th or 9th next tuesday. i love how new england is all about the marths, makes it much easier for me to do ok in tournament.
the biggest things that are holding me back right now are
1. problems tech chasing fast fallers
2. not having any good ganons in my area to learn from (not living in florida)
anyway, i had a very specific question when i came in here.
i notice bizzaro and other ganons double jump a lot before wavelanding in for an ftilt. i tried it and found i could perfect waveland in much more consistently. but if i could do that from a short hop, would there be any reason to dj for that approach?
also how is it living under the oppression of gravy? have you learned to hate the falcon matchup as much as i have? i actually think my time playing with him made my falcon matchup worse. now when i play falcons in tournament, they land the silliest **** like raptor boosts because i'm too busy trying to protect myself against nairs, gentlemans and knees.
the biggest things that are holding me back right now are
1. problems tech chasing fast fallers
2. not having any good ganons in my area to learn from (not living in florida)
anyway, i had a very specific question when i came in here.
i notice bizzaro and other ganons double jump a lot before wavelanding in for an ftilt. i tried it and found i could perfect waveland in much more consistently. but if i could do that from a short hop, would there be any reason to dj for that approach?
did you test this with ganon or falcon? because i saw him do it fully invincible like once with falcon and he kept telling me i couldn't do it with ganon. but idk
also how is it living under the oppression of gravy? have you learned to hate the falcon matchup as much as i have? i actually think my time playing with him made my falcon matchup worse. now when i play falcons in tournament, they land the silliest **** like raptor boosts because i'm too busy trying to protect myself against nairs, gentlemans and knees.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
oh yeah also in that video i posted, mafia actually noticed that i was stealing the ledge jump fair to dj regrab from linguini.
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
It's easier to do the perfect waveland from a double jump than it is with just a short hop. It's easier to be more consistent with it as well, and it also puts you higher in the air and into a ball where your hitbox is smaller and a bit harder to hit, so using it at the right time can trip up the opponent more than a short-hop would.
This doesn't mean that short-hop wavelanding is bad though, it is essentially better, it just does different things than the DJ waveland does. It's a little harder to do, but it's really useful for quick tomahawk uses or delaying your attack to bait out a reaction from your opponent. These are good situations to use the short-hop waveland and Spider_Sense is really good at doing those (watching his sets on twitch earlier today I really liked his short-hop wavelands he used on Yoshi's vs. The Author). A good time to do the DJ waveland is to close distance between you and your opponent and scare them/ approach (which of course in theory sounds stupid) but you have to use it the right way. It's a good tool to use to make your opponent realize how far you can go and scare them, but if you're not careful, you'll get called out of this DJ waveland (especially if you're too close) and you'll get hit out of your double jump and be in a really bad position.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
The only prodigy I know of is Mr. Brandondorf.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Question is, can you beat Porkchops? lol (But good **** on beating lambchops though) Yeah I think Brandondorf is the next Ganon prodigy.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
He's known for his Dair combos on unranked players, it's ok.. lol. But it looks like all of you still need to do a lot more to be considered super good.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
^ Still beat people you haven't.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Just look at my Twitter followers and views, suppp.^ Still beat people you haven't.
I have the best manly style.
WINK ;)
Thankful for today
Okay, you get rested.
What move is the best to punish with:
low/mid%?
high%?
EDIT: Should I ever even try for a grab against a Jiggs in general unless its on a rest into a fair/bair
What move is the best to punish with:
low/mid%?
high%?
EDIT: Should I ever even try for a grab against a Jiggs in general unless its on a rest into a fair/bair
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