Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Superspright]

Has any Ganondorf played with claw, or used C-stick for the dthrow so they could quickly follow-up with a grab?

 

[tm]

Don't just like my post, it's a question of life for me! lol.

I think clocked has it right. When I watch you, you never seem super careful, despite that the opponent can combo you to death at a moment's notice. You don't spam safe moves, and it's not obvious what you are going for. You somehow never get camped to **** (something I have a lot of problems with.... teach me!), you just get up in their face, and then...
You actually win. Against high level players! (sometimes)

It's actually amazing.

 

[tm]

Has any Ganondorf played with claw, or used C-stick for the dthrow so they could quickly follow-up with a grab?

I don't claw (personally I find it to be unnecessary on just about any character) but I have been using down on the C-stick to throw for a few months now. I like it because
1. No matter how I got the grab or which joystick direction, the motion from the jump button (from the JC grab) to c-stick down is always the same, so I'm less likely to fthrow or bthrow (which was an issue for me)
2. It let's my left thumb have more prep time before doing the quick dash left or right for a chaingrab

Having said that I think both methods have equal potential, I just prefer this one at the moment.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Coast I think you need to wait a second before you tech chase. too many stomps wait and see what move will reach. And yeah shield too much. I was doing the same thing that day. in shield too much and I guess I was nervous because I had a lot of bad habits that day

 

[cptjiggles69]

we need to play more as well. I barely got to play you in that crammed little joint. The BO was pretty nasty in there too

 

[cptjiggles69]

I feel the only reason you should really want to try claw style would be for multishining, I don't see any other reason

 

[Superspright]

I don't claw (personally I find it to be unnecessary on just about any character) but I have been using down on the C-stick to throw for a few months now. I like it because
1. No matter how I got the grab or which joystick direction, the motion from the jump button (from the JC grab) to c-stick down is always the same, so I'm less likely to fthrow or bthrow (which was an issue for me)
2. It let's my left thumb have more prep time before doing the quick dash left or right for a chaingrab

Having said that I think both methods have equal potential, I just prefer this one at the moment.

When I am warmed up I dribble people like an NBA star. I just hit Z then on frame 8-9 I hit c-stick down so I get that immediate d-throw and then I follow-up into jab usually or if I feel frisky I go for the ~120% wizkick. I feel I do it very fast because I use claw. I don't have to dart around the controller. But I prefer using claw. Feels the most natural to me.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I always throw using the Cstick.

I claw whenever I feel like it. I go back and forth depending on my mood. Haven't noticed any advantages when clawing with Ganon, since I can hit the buttons quickly enough without clawing. Tapping Z then hitting the Cstick on the right frame is about the same difficulty either way.

 

[MosthatedinNC]

What are we even talking about? Ganon's grab game and chaingrab?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Coast, if you're gonna get a grab and you miss with it, you need to download that data and keep it stored in your recent memory so that next time you get a grab, you can look for patterns in their teching. You shouldn't just throw out a move willy-nilly after a down-throw. It needs to be calculated and cover enough options where it forces your opponent to pick the option that isn't covered, in which you can take huge advantage of. Your down-smashes after the down-throw were too fast. If you look at ACE's tech-chasing fast-fallers guide, you do the down-smash the moment that the spacie is about to land on the ground. This will cover the three options of tech in place, no tech, and tech behind you. If he DI's behind you, you can react to that and just hold in the opposite direction of your controller stick and then hit down on the c-stick to do a down-smash in the other direction. Also, if you have the read on them DIing and teching away, it really gets into their head if you go for a regrab instead of a fair at low-mid percents and continue controlling your opponent.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Alright. Debate time. Which came first: Eddie Spike or Tipman Spike? (the name) Who popularized it first? Which one do you guys prefer to say and why?

I just prefer to say Tipman spike cause I saw the Triforce of Power combo video where he did it a lot first. I don't even recall seeing any footage of Eddie doing it at all (in fact, I have yet to see any Eddie footage from long ago. Anyone care to dig that up?)

 

[tm]

Personally I don't care either way, although I'm pretty sure it was called the Eddie spike prior to the Tipman. Tipman is cool because you're hitting them with the tips of your toes though

However.... RLD >>> Haxdash

 

[Superspright]

All about the Tipman spike because I'm from Long Island.

 

[Coastward]

yeah **** haxdash.

im gonna try to start getting some stylish kills with RLD so that it will be named 'coast dash'.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Still think "The Skytch Punch" is hilarious lmao.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Eddie spike. Eddie first discovered the Eddie spike.

Tipman discovered using wavelands and stuff for speed. As well as all the cool ledge stuff and technical gimmicks

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

Here are some friendlies from Game Guys Intergalactic Kegger this past weekend. I was playing pretty ********. As usual XD
vs AG | Arc (Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiuKkQikChs&list=UUgRzUKaje7HCATOUT8i482w

I really like this one
vs Tirno (Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiuKkQikChs&list=UUgRzUKaje7HCATOUT8i482w#t=443

vs Skeith (Link)
2 matches. Kinda close, then I got a 3 stock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiuKkQikChs&list=UUgRzUKaje7HCATOUT8i482w#t=927

 

[spider_sense]

I think Tipman was the one the discover that you could do the infamous spike at the ledge instead of jumping off and committing like Eddie did.

 

[spider_sense]

Pawls we never played at CEO dude, you owe me matches. lol

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Crud. I forgot to post my videos from that tournament. I mean, I reviewed them when I was streaming, but never actually put the videos in this thread.

Well, to make it short, I'll just post my near 4-stock comeback against this PRed Sheik player that I got: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhnSjIpetSs

 

[MosthatedinNC]

Yes @ what spider_sense said . I hadn't even heard people call it the "eddie spike" until a good many years after knowing it as the tipman spike. Recently I ran into a midwest fox, brickman, who called it the eddie spike.. he's been playing for awhile. So they may have been saying eddie spike for awhile up there, although i think most of it is to spite the actual term for it, the TIPMAN SPIKE

 

[Superspright]

Yeah, Tipman would stay on stage and use the feet to hit opponent's off of ledge or to beat sweet spot recoveries. When he first started doing it it screwed with people hard.

 

[MosthatedinNC]

@ RedmanSSBM you need to get grabs and chaingrab him back bro... avoid getting grabbed, you be the one doing that to him.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Streaming a smashfest at my house http://www.twitch.tv/skytch

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I could watch this forever.

 

[Coastward]

new signature

 

[RedmanSSBM]

you can thank me for suggesting that to /u/djloreddit

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i'm drunk, but i just wanted to say that i love all of you guys. even you fellow ganondorf players that are lurking this thread right now and reading this post. i feel like ganondorf players have such a unique bond as players, although i can't really describe it. most mains of other characters aren't super tight specifically because of the character that they play, but there's a bond between us all that exists because we're smashers, and because we play this manly, awesome ****ing character.

i might love ganondorf too much, but every time i see someone play this character, it warms my heart; regardless of skill, because even someone that just started playing this character can get me excited. my ears perk up the instant i hear the name "ganondorf" on the ****ing character select screen. it's that bad guys.

so yeah. love all you ******. even superspright, dude is knowledgable as **** and might as well be magus 2.0. if i could make a wish from a magic genie lamp, it'd be to have every single one of you attend the same tournament as me so we could all get to know each other and ****. how awesome would that be?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Oh wow. Who knew staying up this late would pay off? Sup Drunkelmann. I'm really tired. I raged a lot earlier today playing friendlies with my friends. Felt pretty bad about it. Ranted a bit in NC melee and got told to change my character yet again. I shall never abandon Ganondorf. He is just so awesome. I'm up this late cause of SmoothMcGroove's stream, since he was streaming some Vanilla WoW and I wanted to participate.

As much as I get frustrated with this game, I really like that all of us Ganondorf mains are pretty much bros with each other. I'm also thinking I have a good chance of me making it to Big House 4, where I can meet my northern Ganon bros finally

Heading to bed now. Take care!

 

[Linguini]

go home ian, you're drunk.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

go home ian, you're drunk.

this was maybe the perfect usage of that meme.

 

[Superspright]

i'm drunk, but i just wanted to say that i love all of you guys. even you fellow ganondorf players that are lurking this thread right now and reading this post. i feel like ganondorf players have such a unique bond as players, although i can't really describe it. most mains of other characters aren't super tight specifically because of the character that they play, but there's a bond between us all that exists because we're smashers, and because we play this manly, awesome ****ing character.

i might love ganondorf too much, but every time i see someone play this character, it warms my heart; regardless of skill, because even someone that just started playing this character can get me excited. my ears perk up the instant i hear the name "ganondorf" on the ****ing character select screen. it's that bad guys.

so yeah. love all you *****s. even superspright, dude is knowledgable as **** and might as well be magus 2.0. if i could make a wish from a magic genie lamp, it'd be to have every single one of you attend the same tournament as me so we could all get to know each other and ****. how awesome would that be?

Hahahaha. Now that you mention it I don't think other character mains are this tight. The top of the cast definitely not, and the lower part of the cast has no hope I feel. When I got back into Melee I started playing with one of the coolest guys to play Ganondorf on the Island. He wasn't a pro by any means but he had a lot of the tech in the game. I went way past him in a year but we always stayed tight because we played melee, and both played Ganondorf. We all feel, or know that one of us can break out again, and as a community we all try to help each other reach our own personal potential, and hopefully we'll help one of us get back to Ganondorf being a real threat instead of a sigh of relief. I don't think he needs anymore tools. I think we've yet to see someone with a fully developed Ganondorf with all the trimmings. We've seen near perfect Shiek/Peach/Marth/Falco, but I think Ganondorf still has some work. I'm definitely gonna make it to APEX no matter what. I'll definitely see some of you then.

[EDIT] One thing I HAVE TO LEARN BEFORE APEX is how to pivot Ftilt out of a dash dance. I can do anything else pivoted just fine, but without pivot ftilt I am going to continue to struggle against spacies/CF since it's such a great tool to trade with so many aerials and still be able to CC. I still can't do this consistently at all, and I am beginning to think I just can't do it. Is it timing, or is it the pressure on the control-stick?

 

[Coastward]

ian pulling my feels strings while hes drunk.

the all american ganondorf dream can be accomplished if everyone can make it to big house 4. we can all get dinner together and have a good 'ol time. i honestly agree with ian too that were the only community that are so close with each other because of who we play in melee, feels special.

 

[-ACE-]

Superspright, if any tech's difficulty depended on a controller it is that one. It's so intricate that the correct input sequence varies quite a bit between controllers. Have you tried another by chance? It is a hard tech in general but another controller might work with your natural tendencies a lot better.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

we can all get dinner together and have a good 'ol time.

this is straight up my favourite part of every tournament. last supper-esque gatherings with the homies.

word up to ganondorf not being near finished yet. not enough good ganondorfs out there doing work 24/7 for him to be developed efficiently. i think i'm doing a good job though. we should see a super effective version of ganondorf in a couple years if everyone keeps leveling up like they have been.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

this is straight up my favourite part of every tournament. last supper-esque gatherings with the homies.

Denny's at CEO on the last day was pretty nice. Would definitely do again. Shoutouts to @ -ACE- and @ spider_sense as well as @Blea Gelo for that Dinner.

I'm really pushing to go to Big House 4. I really really want to be there.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

it's definitely true what eikelmann is saying about ganon bonds. somehow a ganon round robin occurs every mass madness between all the new england ganons just because we enjoy playing each other so much.

 

[Superspright]

this is straight up my favourite part of every tournament. last supper-esque gatherings with the homies.

word up to ganondorf not being near finished yet. not enough good ganondorfs out there doing work 24/7 for him to be developed efficiently. i think i'm doing a good job though. we should see a super effective version of ganondorf in a couple years if everyone keeps leveling up like they have been.

Yeah if we had a cluster **** of people developing his meta then we'd be on fire right now. One thing I have been working on is transitioning to light-shield in shine pressure or float-pressure. I don't know if it works that well on good players because most people I know aren't insanely good. I feel it works best when I get a powershield so I can get that lowered traction so I can escape the shenanigans.

Plus in an attempt to make him faster I use c-stick up (dat buffer) OoS to jump out of pressure but it's still a work in progress to get a feel for it against the different shield-stuns. I've already tried a lot of different options out of powershield like side-b (usually sucks) and jab/ftilt (sometimes good) up-b (usually good if they cross over or most character's uptilts have weak shieldstun). It seems to generally be super situational and you're better off using the special traction to get away from attacks since it's about equal to a light-shield.

Edge-canceled shenanigans are fun but generally useless unless the opponent is oblivious to his plethora of shield-stun locking combos off edge-cancels. I've landed funny stuff like dair to fair killing people or dair to tipman getup then grab combo them. Or just dair to waveland and chase their roll and punish, but it requires hard reads.

I know pretty much nothing I am working on is novel or at least I suspect it isn't [i.e. edge-cancels, powershield crap] but I haven't really seen anyone trying some of the shield stuff I concentrate on so hard. To most I'm known for doing it. It makes me want to switch my character to someone who can actually have strong options OoS instead of having to put myself in a certain spot to get that unique follow-up.

@ -ACE-
My controller is pretty 'broken in' I would say. The neutral position on the controller has a lot of play in it, and it doesn't register dash inputs so well anymore. I notice when I switch to another controller my combo game gets a smidge better since I get off my dashes on the right frame and my CGs are much tighter, but it also screws with me a little on my movement since I'm used to that sloppiness in it. If it's a timing issue then I can probably get over it.

I have a really good sense of timing. If it's a finesse thing I may be working at it for months. It takes me a long time to feel out very fine-tuned options whereas timings take me a short time. That's why I thought it was a finesse thing. I am able to do any other pivot but I can't do pivot ftilt. Thankfully pivot utilt isn't useful like it is on Marth otherwise I'd be complaining about both lol.

[EDIT]

I'm a stick-slammer when I play. If that's an issue then I am probably screwed. I use c-stick for my off-ledge stuff because I slam the stick so hard I tend to mess up my inputs but by spreading out my actions across the controller or taking the directional stick out of the equation all together tends to make my play better. I like to press buttons because I grew up on quake, and eventually met melee at 12 and then later again at 24.

 

[-ACE-]

I was more concerned about dash sensitivity, which is basically the opposite of having lot of play in the neutral position. I say this being a stick slammer just like you, also. Being "broken in" only means so much since controllers are so different. I believe it is not only the line from where the joystick goes from being "neutral" to the minimal forward input, but also the distance between the minimal forward input and "dash" that matters. So basically there is more than one line and not every controller draws them in the same spot.

 

[Superspright]

I was more concerned about dash sensitivity, which is basically the opposite of having lot of play in the neutral position. I say this being a stick slammer just like you, also. Being "broken in" only means so much since controllers are so different. I believe it is not only the line from where the joystick goes from being "neutral" to the minimal forward input, but also the distance between the minimal forward input and "dash" that matters. So basically there is more than one line and not every controller draws them in the same spot.

I guess if the controller isn't pristine then it will be hard to time it. I imagined it as being a timing thing at one point and you just have to press A as you're just before the smash input. I also tried going really fast then just stopping my thumb then lightly going to ftilt but it never works. My hand just wants to keep smacking left and right. I mainly flicker pivot which works every time but it won't help me with an ftilt I think. I guess I'll have to work on the timing. If I can't do that tech consistently I might as well pack my Ganondorf up and go home because he needs that to be successful in tournament. He can't just wavedash and ftilt anymore.