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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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CCing against Sheik and using down-angled ftilt and down-tilt. Oh wow. Works against a lot of her stuff. You basically can beat her in CC wars. If a Sheik isn't grab happy, I'm sure you can get away with this a lot.

Also I've found that Dr. Mario is a pretty good secondary to have vs. Sheik. Just played some serious games with Yeroc's Sheik and I took a few games off his Sheik with Doc, as well as Ganondorf of course (my CG on Sheik is getting better, I can tell.)

Fox I think Pikachu could work pretty well, cause Pikachu is fast and do is Fox, so playing a character to combat that speed only makes sense to me. Falco is the one I'm still a bit puzzled on. I could play Doc vs. Falco, but I feel like there's a better character for that. Marth certainly is really good against Falco, so I'd probably pick him up just for that matchup. There's also Samus, but she's kind of hard to learn. Maybe Link?

Got crap-ton of clips today anyway cause I was playing on point and wanted to record myself. I got some pretty awesome combos in there as well. Thinking of doing a combo video of sorts at some point. Just don't know if it should be a Ganondorf only one, or an all characters one, that just features me as the player? Or maybe two separate combo videos; one with just Ganondorf and the other with other characters.
 
tm

tm

Smash Ace
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Superspright said:
One thing I HAVE TO LEARN BEFORE APEX is how to pivot Ftilt out of a dash dance. I can do anything else pivoted just fine, but without pivot ftilt I am going to continue to struggle against spacies/CF since it's such a great tool to trade with so many aerials and still be able to CC. I still can't do this consistently at all, and I am beginning to think I just can't do it. Is it timing, or is it the pressure on the control-stick?
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Holy **** pivot ftilt is way too hard. Most consistent I can be with it is still around 50% at best. Easiest method i've found is just making sure that you only press slightly past neutral for the pivot (instead of all the way to the other side, as if continuing the dash dance). And of course you have to press A on that 1 frame.

BH4 will be godlike. Everyone go.

I'm working on pushing Ganon as well, but it won't mean anything until I'm known for my accomplishments instead of my words. Today I got 7th at a MI local (ok), and took a game off the #2 ranked player in the state in pools. I think that mastering the CG (esp on spacies), wavelands / movement tricks, and edge cancels are the next big things for Ganon that are somewhat untapped and can give him an edge in the current meta.
 
S

Superspright

Smash Lord
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Dec 26, 2008
Messages
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tm said:
Holy **** pivot ftilt is way too hard. Most consistent I can be with it is still around 50% at best. Easiest method i've found is just making sure that you only press slightly past neutral for the pivot (instead of all the way to the other side, as if continuing the dash dance). And of course you have to press A on that 1 frame.

BH4 will be godlike. Everyone go.

I'm working on pushing Ganon as well, but it won't mean anything until I'm known for my accomplishments instead of my words. Today I got 7th at a MI local (ok), and took a game off the #2 ranked player in the state in pools. I think that mastering the CG (esp on spacies), wavelands / movement tricks, and edge cancels are the next big things for Ganon that are somewhat untapped and can give him an edge in the current meta.
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I'll try slight press if I can get my hands on a cube to practice. If I can get down the finesse of it then I'll have that as a really strong tool. The more I play better players the more I learned that you aren't gonna get very far with Gdorf without ftilt. I accept that he's not a character you can just drop aerials on people's heads. You have to really really fish for something or trade, and aerial trades aren't safe to go for at the higher level. Ftilt is less of a commitment, and out of dash-dance I doubt most people would be able to react and punish it.

I agree with your latter paragraph. Edge-cancels have brought my speed and combo game up to a new level and I have been able to do new stuff with them. It also enables me to quickly land an aerial on ledge and snag it in case I miss or my opponent picks another option. I also like using it to cancel my aerials then switch to a tilt rapidly to cover phantasm long and shortened (still working on this but it's real). Wavelands are still extremely important but they are commitments so they have to be used properly but I think we can still afford to be liberal with it as long as we have the right space. The CG is integral to seeing a Ganondorf on top again. I don't think it will happen without it. The ICs, Peach, Marth, Fox, and a few others have CGs and we've seen how devastating they are. If Ganondorf's grabs are that dangerous then he's going to be a threat again. Yeah I know it looks lame but I'd rather see that then see him lose. Right now only a handful have a semblance of consistency on the CGs--mainly with Sheik. A few can do Falco, and NONE can do Fox at low percents. I haven't been watching many videos lately but I think shield-dropping is really necessary nowadays and Ganondorf has great options out of it. There's probably more stuff we should be developing. The only weird jank thing I've found that isn't super consistent is dash dance powershielding for Ganondorf because of his pivot frame he gets a nice disjoint on his shield. I've found it easier to powershield high lasers, and much easier to powershield Peach's turnips.
 
Coastward

Coastward

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im gonna grind in the lab for the next two weeks since i cant really attend tournaments until then, gonna try to attain max level movement and 100% consistency.
 
Moy

Moy

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Slippi.gg
MOY#56
Anyone have any advice on the best use for Nair? Ganon was my first main back in '09, trying to pick him back up after putting him on the back-burner for so long.
 
S

Superspright

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Combo extender, as a bait (some people don't realize it auto-cancels so quickly after the second kick hitbox ends), and it actually goes 0 on shield I hear if both hits connect. Very hard to do I realize, but it may be useful in some situations--probably best for rising onto a platform like battlefield or yoshi's story and using the kicks to hold the opponent there then transitioning to shield then shield dropping before they can grab then pick an aerial. I'd imagine most would find the opportunity to grab Ganondorf too palpable to resist and would fall for it. Yet to see it. Nair generally sucks. But back to the first thing I was talking about, watch some matches of Kage. He uses it to extend combos on Marth after a D-throw so he can put them on platforms. He uses the soft hit [1st hit] to do this. It's pretty effective in that situation.
 
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Spralwers

Spralwers

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
517
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MA
So I just joined the PGH/NEOH smash melee group and I'm the 666th member. That is uncanny combined with the fact I'm a Dorf main. It must be a sign. Looks like there's a good amount of you out in the regions I'll be driving through, I'll send some PMs in a few days/a week.
 
MosthatedinNC

MosthatedinNC

Dorsey
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My girlfriend resides in NEOH near Cleveland as I work and travel and stuff, although I'm NC. I go up there a bunch.
 
tm

tm

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X WaNtEd X said:
you guys ever shield stop with ganon out of curiosity?
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Yeah I'm using it lately and liking it more the more I use it. I think it's really useful for micro positioning as well as setting up for a shield drop, and also a more consistent way of doing pivot aerials.
 
spider_sense

spider_sense

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How to shield-drop (or the way I do it at least) run on a platform and then simply press down and shield at the same time. Btw, I need glasses lol but Skytch basically has the definition of the term down. Anybody doing some late night streaming?
 
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X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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tm said:
Yeah I'm using it lately and liking it more the more I use it. I think it's really useful for micro positioning as well as setting up for a shield drop, and also a more consistent way of doing pivot aerials.
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like you'll shield stop just to jump onto a platform for the shield drop? i feel like that'd be a great defensive maneuver, but only in really specific situations. micro positioning is a more common use for it i think. i'm practicing doing it into bairs, uairs and dairs for the most part.

PseudoTurtle said:
What is a shield stop?
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http://www.twitch.tv/pewpewu/c/4779579

spider_sense said:
How to shield-drop (or the way I do it at least) run on a platform and then simply press down and shield at the same time. Btw, I need glasses lol but Skytch basically has the definition of the term down. Anybody doing some late night streaming?
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i never do it that way, but i should start incorporating it into my play for more options on platforms. doing a dash into a shield drop sounds pretty useful, but i never see people do it that way very often.

i'll typically shield drop from a stationary position. if i'm waiting for my opponent to go somewhere, i'll do it the arizona way. if i need to get it off real fast i'll just press down on the control stick from shield hella lightly.

also while on the subject, i talked to a sheik from montreal called popo at a local the other day. he said kage had an anti shield drop technique that was developed in response to several of the better players in the region learning to shield drop. he didn't really do a very good job of explaining it, but he made it sound like you simply shield grab someone trying to shield drop. idk but it'd be cool if kage expanded upon this.
 
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spider_sense

spider_sense

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X WaNtEd X said:
like you'll shield stop just to jump onto a platform for the shield drop? i feel like that'd be a great defensive maneuver, but only in really specific situations. micro positioning is a more common use for it i think. i'm practicing doing it into bairs, uairs and dairs for the most part.



http://www.twitch.tv/pewpewu/c/4779579



i never do it that way, but i should start incorporating it into my play for more options on platforms. doing a dash into a shield drop sounds pretty useful, but i never see people do it that way very often.

i'll typically shield drop from a stationary position. if i'm waiting for my opponent to go somewhere, i'll do it the arizona way. if i need to get it off real fast i'll just press down on the control stick from shield hella lightly.

also while on the subject, i talked to a sheik from montreal called popo at a local the other day. he said kage had an anti shield drop technique that was developed in response to several of the better players in the region learning to shield drop. he didn't really do a very good job of explaining it, but he made it sound like you simply shield grab someone trying to shield drop. idk but it'd be cool if kage expanded upon this.
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^ I'm sure your way is fine too, there's multiple ways of doing it apparently, I just find that way to be a bit more consistent.
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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Shield stop with Ganon going for a shield grab? Ewww.. he doesn't even run very fast so you'll go for the risk for being in shield in the first place? For myself, that's the last thing I would want to do with Ganon. I would never ever want a space animal near me. There should be better setups to get the grab in the first place such as a simple dash back to pivot. Ill try to work on this to never let a space animal move at all because we all know thats the death of Ganon letting someone move freely.
 
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spider_sense

spider_sense

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Actually Kage, shield stopping in most instances is pretty legit. You can bait aerials and get free shield grabs (asdi ones) or just plain bait out any preemptive attack.
 
Moy

Moy

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spider_sense said:
Actually Kage, shield stopping in most instances is pretty legit. You can bait aerials and get free shield grabs (asdi ones) or just plain bait out any preemptive attack.
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What exactly do you mean by getting free ASDI shield grabs?
 
tm

tm

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X WaNtEd X said:
like you'll shield stop just to jump onto a platform for the shield drop?
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No. For example, this is one situation: imagine you are on side platform and the opponent is near center stage. Dash towards center stage, then dashdance the other way and immediately shield stop -> shield drop -> bair / uair.

So by that I mean it's a way of extending your aerials farther away from you quickly under the platform.
One could also empty shieldrop -> waveland in such a situation (although there would be no need to turn around, and thus no need for the shield stop (except mingames!))
 
RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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Take a look at my latest twitch vod to see that pivot ftilts aren't really that hard, a cool tech @ spider_sense spider_sense showed me, and the true potential of shield-dropping (aka turnaround bair from a platform almost instantly).

Now to just use all this tech in an actual match :)
 
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