Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I hate when that happens.

One time with Mewtwo it was last stock last hit game 3 against a Falco on Yoshi's and I grabbed him on the top platform and went to Uthrow for the win but I ****ed it up and Fthrowed instead and ended up losing

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Yo joe, bar hopping in Ann Arbor will be happening

 

[-ACE-]

Claw grip like I use makes it easier to jump-cancel grab which is necessary for the higher percents of the CG. I just have my index finger on Y and my thumb on the c-stick. I think most of your success probably comes from your prudent usage of the c-stick over the control-stick. It's just not as reliable for the CG. Same with ledge options; C-stick is superior in every regard IMHO. I even use c-stick to jump OoS for wavedashes and the like. It allows me to buffer the jump--but it doesn't work so well against Fox or Falco obviously because of the dreaded shine.

Claw grip is impossible for a ton of smashers, it just feels too awkward. It's all opinion/preference. I jc grab with X and R, moving my thumb from a flick of the c-stick to the X button takes less than a frame. I don't use c-stick to drop from the ledge (I use down). You have to be so fast anyway that it doesn't matter if you fastfall or not (for ledgedash stuff). For reverse uair regrab I use out, up, c-up, drift back to ledge. Using out instead of c-stick gives your uair more range. If you can actually use c-stick that well on oos wavedashes than more power to you, but you are one of the few people on earth that can time Ganon's wavedash on a buffered jump consistently while clawing. I prefer to just pay attention and properly time my wd as soon as I know I can do it. Or if the shine is giving me problems I'll SDI and buffer either a jump or a roll to at least make sure they can't follow up unless the keep their tech skill perfect.

 

[Divinokage]

I back/forward throw on accident so often god damn it is so ****ing frustrating ****ing **** ****

Rofl slow down your inputs, son.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo joe, bar hopping in Ann Arbor will be happening

Yea man we gotta party again after Purdue! It's such a shame I'll be 21 almost exactly one month after big house, so I'll have to pretend I'm from Ohio for just a little longer. But if it worked in Vegas...

And yo kage have you seen me play? Lawl I don't know how to play slowly. But maybe some thinking time would do me some good.

 

[Divinokage]

Yea man we gotta party again after Purdue! It's such a shame I'll be 21 almost exactly one month after big house, so I'll have to pretend I'm from Ohio for just a little longer. But if it worked in Vegas...

And yo kage have you seen me play? Lawl I don't know how to play slowly. But maybe some thinking time would do me some good.

Of course I have, I just imagined the way you play when I said that. lolol

 

[tm]

On a related note, I'm having a lot of trouble against spacies, particularly in the neutral game. My reads/ punishes/ combos/ edgeguards need some work, but at least when I mess up, I know what I did wrong and how I can improve it. In the neutral game, however, I'm lost.
With fox he DDs, nairs in, runs in and waveshines, or grabs. I know I can CC some stuff into jab (if he doesn't cross me up) (I feel like CC dtilt/ftilt is just too slow), but don't have any real answers to shine, and most of the time I feel like I have to predict his exact approach if I want to beat it. (fyi: I'm not spamming aerials in fear of his DD, I'm not quite that bad) Generally I DD or space auto cancelled aerials or try to perfect waveland into a grab or ftilt depending on spacing, but when he goes in I never quite react fast enough, or I'm not aware of more correct decisions. Once I'm offstage I'm usually dead because shine + bair/ ledgehog + upsmash. I don't really expect to get back though.
With falco, it's lasers and sheild pressure. I am still working on PSing, but other than that I don't have much of an answer to lasers. If falco is lasering quickly, there's barely enough time to WD away from him between lasers, so he gets to come to me and control the stage at any range. If I sheild one and roll, I either get hit by another laser at the end of my roll, or I have to come out of it in my sheild, which is back to him pressuring me. In sheild I'm usually dealing with multiple shines/ dairs/ grabs. I'm pretty good at rolling out, but then we're back to what I just said. I can CC lasers into jab/ tilt if he nairs/ dairs in after the laser, but if he doesn't then I'm just taking free damage, and sometimes if I get it right, he still trades. And once I'm in sheild I feel stuck, since it takes something like 15 frames to get out of it via whatever method (sheild release, WD OoS, usmash OoS ).
If I get a hit and the pressures off, I do pretty well, but every time they hit me in neutral, it can lead to a combo. My DI is pretty decent but with ganon it's not always enough.
I feel the same kind of disadvantage in neutral with other matchups like Falcon and Marth, but to a lesser extent.

P.S. Some of the players I've been playing against: KJH, HIV+, SlayerTokey

Any advice would be greatly appreciated =)

I posted this on the last page but I think it got buried without much notice. Just wanted to make sure you guys saw it, because I'd really appreciate any tips. I would have made a separate thread for it, but I don't think many of you look at the other threads, and I could use input from as many of you as possible since you're all probably way better than me

please + thanks.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Of course I have, I just imagined the way you play when I said that. lolol

Hahahaha gotcha. Yea man, well play again. Hopefully you won't get these consistent three stocks in our friendlies at big house lmao.

And yo vs fox, kage is definitely the one to ask about fox, all I can give you are stupid little tricks, nothing deep or of any real value.

Here's the thing about fox. Everybody here will tell you not to approach, but for me, the only chance I ever have against a fox player is approaching in creative ways. If he is dash dancing just out of fair range, jump forward (as if you were going to fair), go for a perfect waveland and ftilt. It will hit the first time. You can also waveland on a platform and fair also, it will give you that extra little bit of range. Only thing is after you hit with the ftilt, he will dash dance out of your waveland ftilt range. This is actually good because now you can creep in on him because at this range, he can't hit you.

That basically covers your offensive approaches. As for defensive options, talk to kage. If I make one mistake, get hit once, I'm basically dead, so I'm not the guy to talk to. Only thing I have to say is watch your spacing, fox has a lot of cross up tricks with platforms and stuff. Don't be in the air too often.

 

[Renth]

Played a bunch of smash with RockCrock and Uberice today.

Had a lot of fun I'm definitely buying recording equipment in the near future.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Had a lot of fun I'm definitely buying recording equipment in the near future.

Please. I haven't seen recent ganon vids in forever. Except tipman. That was sweet.

 

[Divinokage]

Man.. I wish my vids were recorded last tourney, I tapped ass so hard even KK was impressed. It's not easy to impress him lol.

 

[Renth]

Man.. I wish my vids were recorded last tourney, I tapped *** so hard even KK was impressed. It's not easy to impress him lol.

I know how you feel, the past few times i've played I didn't do well and was losing a lot of interest. This past weekend is the best i've played in a long time and it felt very good. KK is a great person in and out of smash I wish I could play him often.

 

[Renth]

Time for a double post because who gives a fawk.


I'm going to reopen the Nair discussion:

I've been trying to throw it in more often in unique places seeing if I can get anything worth while out of it. So far, I've come up with a whole lot of nothing. The only thing that I know is while playing RockCrock a lot he said: "In teams, you can fast fall and hit your team mate with the first hit of n air to save your team mate, it pops them up." Which is true, but also puts Ganon in a super awful position off stage where you and your team mate likely get shine spiked. The more I mess around and try to use n air the more and more I find it not worth anything. At the big house, Skyson did a combo to me that he says he's only ever done one other time. He hit me with the first hit of N air three times in a row (I was likely DI,ing inwards like a noob tard.)

Either way, what i'm trying to say is I think n air is garbage.

 

[Divinokage]

What? But you can extend your combos that way. >_< If you dair, you can get into them in a way where you can either fair or nair. If you fair and they DI away they will be ****ed why would they? So if you nair you can get a regrab or another aerial at least or grounded move too at low %.

 

[Renth]

I guess I just need to see the application more, I use to think it was good but the more I try to use it the less I get out of it I think, I don't know.

 

[Divinokage]

Maybe you have to make your movement more sneaky idk. =P Id have to see. There are definitely ways to make your opponent second guess where he's gonna go.

 

[tm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my1g1md75mA
8:17, 9:47, and 12:01 include some nice nairing

obviously its not the best move but situationally useful

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Lol claw for jc grabs sounds terrible. The joys of jumping with analog.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I like it when noobs try to dash dance. Grab city ***** yeaaaaaa can't wait to bust some heads tomorrow

 

[Ripple]

analog jumping is the best

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo I gotta wreck some ******* with ganon tonight. Any tips? I've been going neck and neck with this falco player, my record against him is 2-0, but its always so close and I can tell he's mad salty hahaha.

Kage, you said to dash dance a lot vs falco, but I always get hit by lasers into a dair and then comboed (sp?), often times to death. When do I dash dance vs falco, like give me a couple scenarios when it is applicable, only one I can think of is when he's in his shield or something.

 

[Divinokage]

Yo I gotta wreck some *****es with ganon tonight. Any tips? I've been going neck and neck with this falco player, my record against him is 2-0, but its always so close and I can tell he's mad salty hahaha.

Kage, you said to dash dance a lot vs falco, but I always get hit by lasers into a dair and then comboed (sp?), often times to death. When do I dash dance vs falco, like give me a couple scenarios when it is applicable, only one I can think of is when he's in his shield or something.

Are you sure I said that? It sounds like a bad idea to me as he can just stop it with one laser. Actually, DDing with Ganon isn't great since he doesnt really travel anywhere, it's only good to mix it up and psych your opponent out a little. I said you have to move around a lot, not DD. You cant get caught in his strings like that. You have to trap him to extend like that in the first place, laser into dair isn't a combo, you should have time to uair given the proper spacing or shield DI away to grab just before he can L-cancel. If you are close you can probably CC laser to jab before his aerial comes out, at worst you'll trade but we like that. Cornering Falco quickly is pretty much a must. Once he's close to the ledge, he's likely gonna laser camp.. just take your time, take a hit or 2 DI it as well, or shield DI it to force him to eventually do something, be threatening with your attacks.. Also Ftilt is great in this match, same principle as Jab just different timing and range.

 

[Linguini]

People gotta use strategic rolling more against falco. When he comes at you with an approach(nair, laser, etc.) and you time the roll right into him you'll be on his other side and the tables will be turned. Obviously if the falco is ready for it he will punish, but if done properly the hunter becomes the hunted just like that.

Played a bit yesterday and was crushing falco's fvcking skull in, felt damn good lol

 

[Renth]

You going to the tournament this weekend Emillio?

If you do, Eikelmann, RockCrock, Spider Sense and I will be there. We will have some good old ganon fun my man.

 

[Linguini]

ah, I wish. moving in to my new place in gville that day. i'ma try to come out to the next tourney forsure though

 

[Renth]

@Kage

http://www.twitch.tv/renth/c/2758514

I got AE on the PC so I can stream so I can get people videos/new variety of people to play with outside the xbox (the name praetorious..orff? whatever is my brothers name he accidently used my product key on his name so i use his account on PC)

Either way, this is a vid of two match ups i have no idea how to fight, they turned out okay.. My hardest match ups atm are Ryu, Bison and Vega. I went on a nasty losing streak is why my PP is low but im grinding it back up. Edit: also have been learning sakura, her offensive game is very fun.

 

[tm]

Linguini, what are your preferred methods for dealing with falco's ledgehop double laser?

 

[Superspright]

I don't want to answer in Linguini's place, but you can do a super jank dash attack grab and grab-release Falco if you time it perfectly to hit you when you grab [same frame]. It throws him to his death over 70%

 

[Renth]

Crouch cancel > jab

 

[tm]

That sounds beautiful.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

CC the first
Powershield the 2nd
Uair OoS before falco touches the ground

 

[Divinokage]

You can also just Bair over them if you know he's gonna do that. If not you have to be relatively close to the ledge which you dont really want as he can hit you with an aerial also if he so chooses to.

 

[-ACE-]

CC the first
Powershield the 2nd
Uair OoS before falco touches the ground

Is that really going to work when they shoot both lasers low like mango/shiz always do? Uair is fast but I dunno.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You should be able to link Laser->uair if you're quick enough. I'll test it later to confirm. Either way, its mostly for flash and less practical than Renth's idea

 

[LoOshKiN]

CC the first
Powershield the 2nd
Uair OoS falco

That's very impressive. Am I safe to assume the lasers don't link?
nahh, they shouldn't given the space that Dorf's Uair gives.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol it would be funny if you could jump into the second laser after ps'ing the first and uair out of stun. you could even SDI the laser hit toward him to guarantee it'd hit (and you'd already be in the air).

 

[Linguini]

Linguini, what are your preferred methods for dealing with falco's ledgehop double laser?

Well, that actually depends on how the falco is doing the double laser. Most falcos don't do it to well so you can end up spamming jab or cc jab and getting one in which equals a free kill. Shielding them and grabbing is also an option as well as cc grab. The only falco that i've had space the lasers perfectly without fail is lambchops...everyone else is so-so at them.

 

[Renth]

http://smashboards.com/threads/mice-results-orlando-fl-71-entrants.340121/ I lost to Uuaa and Pi. Uuaa is a fox in hboxs crew who recently started playing again surprised how solid he still was, Pi very good samus, I had little match up exp ate too many missiles. Match one he slapped my **** match 2 i adapted and things were going a lot better too little to late.

http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/b/447167049

@ 27:00 the only match I was in that got recorded was a doubles set with Ian (eikelmann and I) vs. Col bol / Harriet the Guy.

holy crap that video is laggy

 

[Meccs]

Okay so I'm going to Mass Madness this saturday, anyone else gonna be there? Would love to get some in-person ganon help.

 

[tm]

Thanks for the feedback all