Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Superspright]

It's sad that most of you feel this way. Good luck improving if you don't believe chain grabbing is a god send.

 

[Theftz22]

You're not wrong, Spright, you're just an asshole.

 

[Divinokage]

You've openly denied certain things being useful only to use them later. I'm just pointing out some facts. In your match against Hax you were powershielding nearly everything he was doing and getting great punishes for it. Shortly before that you said powershielding wasn't that useful for Ganon...you also said edge-canceling wasn't super useful, and then I start seeing you use it for baits...are you going to chaingrab now? You said that wasn't useful for you either. Maybe if I keep berating you you'll learn everything and kick everyone's *** again.

Also, I work on not going off stage at any cost. I'd rather get hit and CC and snap ledge and give up space then be off stage. That's mainly how I try to improve my Ganon--just not being off stage or above my opponent unless it's necessary.

Ya I did say a lot of things, but that was a long time ago, it's time for you to stop assuming who I am just from what I do online. You know.. I like to mindgame people in game and out sometimes. =) What if all that I've said is to lower people's guards because now they believe I am that someone that will do a "certain" thing but in the end I can just redefine myself how I want. lol.

I always believed in the greatest strength is a lack of weakness.

opinions change lol

I probably didn't even believe what I was saying. lol.

 

[tm]

Damn salty since I was last here. People, you can disagree with whatever you want but don't disrespect someone because of it. Us ganon mains gotta stick together Kage is not a perfect player, but he is technically the best (or one of the best) ganons, so he's doing something right, and we can all learn from him.

On a related note, I'm having a lot of trouble against spacies, particularly in the neutral game. My reads/ punishes/ combos/ edgeguards need some work, but at least when I mess up, I know what I did wrong and how I can improve it. In the neutral game, however, I'm lost.
With fox he DDs, nairs in, runs in and waveshines, or grabs. I know I can CC some stuff into jab (if he doesn't cross me up) (I feel like CC dtilt/ftilt is just too slow), but don't have any real answers to shine, and most of the time I feel like I have to predict his exact approach if I want to beat it. (fyi: I'm not spamming aerials in fear of his DD, I'm not quite that bad) Generally I DD or space auto cancelled aerials or try to perfect waveland into a grab or ftilt depending on spacing, but when he goes in I never quite react fast enough, or I'm not aware of more correct decisions. Once I'm offstage I'm usually dead because shine + bair/ ledgehog + upsmash. I don't really expect to get back though.
With falco, it's lasers and sheild pressure. I am still working on PSing, but other than that I don't have much of an answer to lasers. If falco is lasering quickly, there's barely enough time to WD away from him between lasers, so he gets to come to me and control the stage at any range. If I sheild one and roll, I either get hit by another laser at the end of my roll, or I have to come out of it in my sheild, which is back to him pressuring me. In sheild I'm usually dealing with multiple shines/ dairs/ grabs. I'm pretty good at rolling out, but then we're back to what I just said. I can CC lasers into jab/ tilt if he nairs/ dairs in after the laser, but if he doesn't then I'm just taking free damage, and sometimes if I get it right, he still trades. And once I'm in sheild I feel stuck, since it takes something like 15 frames to get out of it via whatever method (sheild release, WD OoS, usmash OoS ).
If I get a hit and the pressures off, I do pretty well, but every time they hit me in neutral, it can lead to a combo. My DI is pretty decent but with ganon it's not always enough.
I feel the same kind of disadvantage in neutral with other matchups like Falcon and Marth, but to a lesser extent.

P.S. Some of the players I've been playing against: KJH, HIV+, SlayerTokey

Any advice would be greatly appreciated =)

 

[Superspright]

Being an asshole is totally different from constructive criticism. I see now why most of you suck. Now I'm being an asshole.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Also, going to toronto right now. Gonna go face those dudes and improve my game further.. It's gonna be nice practice that's for sure.

Are you going go to the Tournament August 10th?

 

[Divinokage]

Are you going go to the Tournament August 10th?

Probably not, i'd have no ride. It's not exactly cheap to ride there either. =P

 

[Renth]

Being an ******* is totally different from constructive criticism. I see now why most of you suck. Now I'm being an *******.

Try working on your own game instead of telling others how to play, how can you give advice to players 2x+ your level of game play. Chances are anything you have to say they already know. Also, who are you? Does anyone in the community even know you? Where do you get this ego to talk down to everyone coaching everyone on their playing.

You become a top player with all these sweet techs then talk down to people. "Most of you suck" How do you even know, have you met any of us? Are you judging solely off of ancient videos cause there hasn't been updated vids in this thread in a loooong time.

Kage out places all of us significantly on an international level, why don't you start asking him for advice rather than trying to condemn him for not chain grabbing.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Renth are you going to big house 3? If so, MONEY MATCH

 

[Renth]

When is it October? Unlikely but possible. I really enjoyed the last one

 

[-ACE-]

DYNAMITE!!!!!!!!!

caps LOCK effect mutha fugga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD-308vaiUE

 

[Superspright]

Try working on your own game instead of telling others how to play, how can you give advice to players 2x+ your level of game play. Chances are anything you have to say they already know. Also, who are you? Does anyone in the community even know you? Where do you get this ego to talk down to everyone coaching everyone on their playing.

You become a top player with all these sweet techs then talk down to people. "Most of you suck" How do you even know, have you met any of us? Are you judging solely off of ancient videos cause there hasn't been updated vids in this thread in a loooong time.

Kage out places all of us significantly on an international level, why don't you start asking him for advice rather than trying to condemn him for not chain grabbing.

I would respond, but...

This is the definition of irony.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

so my current concern is the lack of ganondorfs in other continents. japan used to have cho and cj (barely), and europe has qlex and used to have VJ/AceNL, but they both change characters/quit. why do you guys think this is?

hopefully lurking players from asia/europe might see this.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

I feel you superspright, it's just the tone in which you are trying to get across your ideas that's annoying people. I know people can be taken out of context via text-based communication, but jesus man, lighten the **** up. You did point out some specifics in Kage's game that I thought were useful, I'd actually like to give you some updated vids of my Ganon and have you critique them, you do have a good eye. Renth, you def. need to come out to the big house and bro out, Midwest is where your homies are, don't forget that ****.

 

[Divinokage]

so my current concern is the lack of ganondorfs in other continents. japan used to have cho and cj (barely), and europe has qlex and used to have VJ/AceNL, but they both change characters/quit. why do you guys think this is?

hopefully lurking players from asia/europe might see this.

Why? Because playing Ganon in a consistent way is extremely frustrating in a long run, he's bad.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Using 10 great options > Using 20 great options.

This, I actually agree with to a certain extent. But watch kage and linguini, regarded as the two best ganons, and then compare. Linguini is faster, smoother, and more technically sound. But kage gets those results and is probably the better ganon unless its vs spacies, namely falco.

Yo renth what trail said. We know how to treat smashers in the midwest

 

[Divinokage]

This, I actually agree with to a certain extent. But watch kage and linguini, regarded as the two best ganons, and then compare. Linguini is faster, smoother, and more technically sound. But kage gets those results and is probably the better ganon unless its vs spacies, namely falco.

Yo renth what trail said. We know how to treat smashers in the midwest

Falco maybe but at this point, we both know that being consistent vs spacies in tournament is really hard. It's usually why Ganons would lose to tournament by facing spacies one after the other. It's taxing as hell because they all play differently and you arent allowed to mess anything up. Letting Fox/Falco a chance to hit you again isnt good at all, you have to be able to shut them down really fast.

 

[-ACE-]

Yo MY HOUSE is who treats smashers right. fun times, free beers, free liquor, and orders of 80 wings delivered. hard to beat that ****.

 

[Renth]

Big house is a big maybe, It's hard for me to travel until November. I've been wanting to meet Fake Turtle for awhile now he's been pretty cool to talk to ect.

I believe (unsure) I'm moving back to PA after november so to travel in october then deal with moving expenses the following month might be hard on me. However, If I called in a few favors I could definitely make it work. So I'll let you know, JuggleGuy is a great TO and any event of his is absolutely worth going to.

 

[Renth]

Yo MY HOUSE is who treats smashers right. fun times, free beers, free liquor, and orders of 80 wings delivered. hard to beat that ****.

Yo I'll be right there.

 

[Divinokage]

Yo BBQ at Ace? I'd be so down!

Also can't wait for big house 3!!! I'll finally be able to unleash some pain.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo MY HOUSE is who treats smashers right. fun times, free beers, free liquor, and orders of 80 wings delivered. hard to beat that ****.

I can completely vouch for this ****. Had such a blast last time chillin with you and some of your bros.

THIS DUDE ALSO HAS FIREWATER... NO IDEA WHAT THE **** IT IS BUT DAMN IT IS SMOOOOOOOOTH. 50% BY VOLUME AND TASTES LIKE NOTHING.





I should be their spokesperson.

PS yea renth, eikelmann's put in good words for you, def hoping to meet you sometime soon. Especially after how much I've improved since the last time Ian and I played (which is a ton...).

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

all of the ganondorfs should just go to ace's house for a ganondorfbbq fest.


national ganondorf convention of meat, alcohol, and dark lords.

 

[Superspright]

I really want to see another player beside Magus perfect the chaingrab on spacies. Kage, you always talk about having problems with Falco. Why haven't you considered the free 12%-death chaingrab? Maybe you have, but I recall recently you said you didn't want to work on chaingrabs. One late dair and you get a stock or one good tech chase after any aerial. You could also try DD powershielding to beat his laser game or at least stop it all together--Ganon's first few run frames [away from the laser] are perfect for powershielding lasers because the shield goes extremely far behind him. I can usually powershield any slow moving projectile ie. turnips, missles, etc.--and I get like 2-3 powershields in a row on lasers...obviously this doesn't work on low lasers because his leg sticks out but works best on medium to high lasers.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I cg spacies often and it's a pretty easy di trap into tilt/down b for a kill at higher percents. most spacies also don't realize to di it if you do it very quickly, either. so the first couple of grabs are free generally.,

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah the first few can be free, then it's guesswork from 25% up until you're fast enough to react. Which for me is like 70% or so (consistently that is). It's pretty tough, but even grabbing a fox or falco at 90% and cg'ing them up to 140 and giving them the purple boot feels so good haha

 

[Superspright]

Have any of you considered using a claw grip for the CG? I use c-stick down for my throws so they are immediate, and then I quickly react with a jump-cancelled grab or pivot grab. It's easier in my mind because I don't have to press down and then reset the stick and then possibly mess up my run. It's just left, or right and grab. I have gotten the CG at very low percents, and I can CG sheik from 0-death when I'm warmed up. I don't feel like I could do it that consistently before, but now it's actually something I can use.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Big house is a big maybe, It's hard for me to travel until November. I've been wanting to meet Fake Turtle for awhile now he's been pretty cool to talk to ect.

I believe (unsure) I'm moving back to PA after november so to travel in october then deal with moving expenses the following month might be hard on me. However, If I called in a few favors I could definitely make it work. So I'll let you know, JuggleGuy is a great TO and any event of his is absolutely worth going to.

I'll offer you free housing in my hotel room and a $20 meal stipend.

 

[Divinokage]

I really want to see another player beside Magus perfect the chaingrab on spacies. Kage, you always talk about having problems with Falco. Why haven't you considered the free 12%-death chaingrab? Maybe you have, but I recall recently you said you didn't want to work on chaingrabs. One late dair and you get a stock or one good tech chase after any aerial. You could also try DD powershielding to beat his laser game or at least stop it all together--Ganon's first few run frames [away from the laser] are perfect for powershielding lasers because the shield goes extremely far behind him. I can usually powershield any slow moving projectile ie. turnips, missles, etc.--and I get like 2-3 powershields in a row on lasers...obviously this doesn't work on low lasers because his leg sticks out but works best on medium to high lasers.

Recently? I just said earlier I always want to get better, no matter what it is. >_< And I also said it's not that obvious to perform these kinds of things, players play ****ing fast at top level. PSing stuff consistently isn't feasible, you have to switch your strategies very quickly. If you are to do PS into something, it's going to be too obvious, you have to delay or something to catch someone pretty well.

 

[Renth]

I'll offer you free housing in my hotel room and a $20 meal stipend.

I will let you know, who knows maybe I'll talk Eikelmann or RockCrock into going.

 

[tm]

If last year was any indication, BH3 will be great. I'm hoping to meet some of you guys and play friendlies. Renth, I saw you there but had to leave early and didn't get a chance to ask.

Also, ganondorfbbq fest sounds amazing

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Rockcrock is on my ganon to-play list. I really wanna play linguini eventually too, but that seems more and more unlikely with each passing moment he doesn't play. See if you can convince him and spidey to come up lol.

Ian you should definitely come up too. I can hear the Midwest calling your name!

 

[Renth]

If last year was any indication, BH3 will be great. I'm hoping to meet some of you guys and play friendlies. Renth, I saw you there but had to leave early and didn't get a chance to ask.

Also, ganondorfbbq fest sounds amazing

You don't have to ask just grab me and say let's play, I'm pretty easy going and I don't take the game too seriously so a lot of my stocks end up with me killing myself trying to super swag too hard hahah

 

[Superspright]

I know it's near impossible to do it purely on reaction--but you can always speed up your anticipation response to stimuli with training. If Falco's lasers are a certain distance it can always be PS'd on reaction. I also like to buffer WD OoS either through them or retreating. I promise you DD powershield is the bees knees. Just try it against Samus' missles or Peach's turnips. I can PS them all day when I'm not sleepy.

I really do hope you perfect the chaingrab though Kage. You could definitely do some serious damage with that in your pocket.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

when is big house? i'll go if flights are cheap.

roy, that offer is legit.

 

[tm]

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...-up-october-12-13th-2013-ann-arbor-mi.336923/

Oct 12-13. Can't say much about flight prices

 

[-ACE-]

Have any of you considered using a claw grip for the CG? I use c-stick down for my throws so they are immediate, and then I quickly react with a jump-cancelled grab or pivot grab. It's easier in my mind because I don't have to press down and then reset the stick and then possibly mess up my run. It's just left, or right and grab. I have gotten the CG at very low percents, and I can CG sheik from 0-death when I'm warmed up. I don't feel like I could do it that consistently before, but now it's actually something I can use.

I have always used c-stick for dthrow, it doesn't require a claw grip. You only need to be immediate if they are good at mashing and you hear it coming (i'm not the type of player to look at someone's controller and see where they DI but you can't help but notice button mashing). If they aren't mashing hard I'll pummel a time or 2 so I have more time to react to the DI after the following dthrow. And sheik is ridiculously easy. I am super pissed if I drop one grab on that one LOL

 

[Superspright]

Claw grip like I use makes it easier to jump-cancel grab which is necessary for the higher percents of the CG. I just have my index finger on Y and my thumb on the c-stick. I think most of your success probably comes from your prudent usage of the c-stick over the control-stick. It's just not as reliable for the CG. Same with ledge options; C-stick is superior in every regard IMHO. I even use c-stick to jump OoS for wavedashes and the like. It allows me to buffer the jump--but it doesn't work so well against Fox or Falco obviously because of the dreaded shine.

 

[tm]

If you're using the c-stick to buffer dthrow at high %s, you'd be missing out on free pummel damage though
Unless you aren't buffering, just using it to direct the throw, but I don't see how that would be easier/ more consistent than pressing down on control stick. There's plenty of time to reset the CS to neutral before hitting it sideways for the JC grab
Or do you mean it's easier to not fthrow/bthrow on accident?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I back/forward throw on accident so often god damn it is so ****ing frustrating ****ing **** ****