bubbaking
Smash Hero
But if you miss, though..... 
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Ya the risk/reward is terrible.. lol.
Bizzarro Flame
Smash Lord
only worth it if the opponent is above 120% for a follow up edge-guard.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,833
Yeah, those dittos were awesome. Playing you in teams was a lot of fun, too.
If you're reading this, Chris, you missed out by not dittoing me. Playing your Fox was a lot of fun, but not the same as your Ganon.
I don't know what I placed, but I did decently. I know I definitely could have beaten the people I lost to in both Melee and PM, but I didn't. Next time I'll just have to play better.
And I used UpB a lot yesterday. Definitely worth it. The risk is minimized if you edge cancel it, too.
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
I know chris is trying to leave the dark side, but if you ever need an nc bro to talk ganon things with raph, hit me up.
I was very unhappy about the seeding me/lozr received, i'd expect even me and Ace to receive a far better seeding than that so the ganon dittos we had were a highlight of my time there.
i did really enjoy the set with pp/chris, though. I guess I should be thankful for that despite us being the first team y'all played chris, lmao. Y'all got ****ed over with seeding too, tbh. Same with EWB's team who we played(there were several teams worse than them there...logically, since me/lozr didn't get a bye, wouldn't you think we'd be up against the worst of the worst in w1....but we went up against an OK team.. then had to face PP's team...the ****)
I was very unhappy about the seeding me/lozr received, i'd expect even me and Ace to receive a far better seeding than that so the ganon dittos we had were a highlight of my time there.
i did really enjoy the set with pp/chris, though. I guess I should be thankful for that despite us being the first team y'all played chris, lmao. Y'all got ****ed over with seeding too, tbh. Same with EWB's team who we played(there were several teams worse than them there...logically, since me/lozr didn't get a bye, wouldn't you think we'd be up against the worst of the worst in w1....but we went up against an OK team.. then had to face PP's team...the ****)
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
I forget who ewb teamed with, but I would consider it a respectable first round match. The real problem was u guys having to fight us in w1. Pp and lozr should never be on the same tv before semis in this state. .
I had to play ganon in teams, and that character feels much stronger after learning some fox. I placed third with all fox,just so u guys know. I beat people I've been losing to for years (cam/josh) although they were not at their best.
Don't think much teams got recorded, but if any of u wanna see what my fox has been doing, those vids will exist.
This fox thing won't be forever. Ill return to ganon with a better understanding of this game.
I had to play ganon in teams, and that character feels much stronger after learning some fox. I placed third with all fox,just so u guys know. I beat people I've been losing to for years (cam/josh) although they were not at their best.
Don't think much teams got recorded, but if any of u wanna see what my fox has been doing, those vids will exist.
This fox thing won't be forever. Ill return to ganon with a better understanding of this game.
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
i was just going into depth with how ****ed up it was, yes that was the real and most obvious problem... but, 4 teams with BYE'S in w1 = 4 teams seeded above us... then, any team who had an easier first/second round match than us, more prominently on the non-pp/lozr side of the bracket, likely had a better seed than us.
it's seriously possible that we had the 8th+ worst seed. since NC doesn't do their seeding objectively(the **** I heard from the seeding table was nothing short of ridiculous... basing everything off match-ups and what people they 'wanted' to see meet up in bracket), then you can't really judge bracket placement objectively either.. as in seeding aligned numerically as brackets are usually done(we could have been in the ~8th worst spot for US on the bracket, is where I'm going with that).
the top 10 from apex were all different characters basically. seeding should be based on the most winning player/teams, period. objectively. match-ups in NC do not define the meta for melee.. far from it.
If you went to the tournament for the the near sole purpose of melee doubles, you'd feel my frustration and understand why I'm breaking it down like this, haha.
it's seriously possible that we had the 8th+ worst seed. since NC doesn't do their seeding objectively(the **** I heard from the seeding table was nothing short of ridiculous... basing everything off match-ups and what people they 'wanted' to see meet up in bracket), then you can't really judge bracket placement objectively either.. as in seeding aligned numerically as brackets are usually done(we could have been in the ~8th worst spot for US on the bracket, is where I'm going with that).
the top 10 from apex were all different characters basically. seeding should be based on the most winning player/teams, period. objectively. match-ups in NC do not define the meta for melee.. far from it.
If you went to the tournament for the the near sole purpose of melee doubles, you'd feel my frustration and understand why I'm breaking it down like this, haha.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,833
If they seeded based on matchups, why did I have to play Sheiks in both round 1 and 2? Although I finally got to test out my "Kirby/Sheik is better than Ganon/Sheik" theory in tournament, and it was more effective than I'd hoped. Going from getting CGed to death and 4stocked to being one smash away from knocking him down to 2 stocks was really surprising. All I need to do is learn how to use Needles with Kirby, and I could probably do even better in that matchup.
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
Nevermind.
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
So who's going to noob4?
![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
Meeeee.
Are you going???!?!?!!??
Are you going???!?!?!!??
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Hack vs Captain Jack
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
wanna do double ganondorf teams?
i would cry
from happiness.
i would cry
from happiness.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Tipman, you need to record, I gotta see your new and improved ganon.
And if you guys go double dorf, that has to be recorded (please?)
And if you guys go double dorf, that has to be recorded (please?)
Renth
Smash Hero
I don't live in Florida anymore Captain Tipper or I would definitely go.
Veggiez
Smash Apprentice
Double Ganon team would be godlike...do it.
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
me and Ace have done double ganon a few times, it's a lot of fun.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
Winning with double ganon feels even better than just winning with ganon. And my experience as that team has been enjoyable overall.
With that being said, its probably a team better suited for MMs than a full tournament lol.
With that being said, its probably a team better suited for MMs than a full tournament lol.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
If you play it right you can cover the whole stage easily and then stomp/punch the **** out of them. It's quite a feeling.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
From what I saw, Pika was a really fast aggressor who could go out and gimp any opponents that got knocked off in the fray and could also quickly finish off high-damage opponents. Ganon was a tank who could hit hard and live long. However, also from what I saw, the team kinda fell apart when Ganon ever lost a stock at non-high %'s. Lolz, maybe the team was just a weird form of Ganon + Fox.
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
just go fox instead of pika lol
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Ya I do think it's a good team.. Pika can go way out there to kill opponents off-stage where Fox cannot and he's also much safer doing so. It's definitely a lot harder to gimp Pika rather than Fox too. I feel like it's probably the best team or definitely one of the best combination with Pika as Ganon can send people off-stage with a lot of his moves. Though I think Fox excels more at helping his partner since his moves cover more in general and he can move in between opponents much better.. I mean he can disrupt the flow a lot easier or in case Ganon needs help off-stage by preventing edgeguards by the other 2. For Pika its quite a bit harder to get in on that while being safe. But Pika can also go way off-stage to help Ganon recover too and also grab the ledge to make the 2 opponents very scared to go off-stage with good reason of course.Kage, I would like your opinion about this Pika - Ganon team you won with once (with Axe)
Do you think this is a good combination for real ?
Or was it just for fun ?
It was fun anyways
Of course in general, it's Axe's ability that allowed us to win... I dont think anyone can win with that combination, you have to both have mastered the character. The 2nd attempt at FC we got 3rd I think? It definitely could have gone either way lol. The matches were way too close to my liking though. =P
And there will be a 3rd time trying this at EVO!!!!!
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Dude, we need kage mango at evo lol
BSeeD
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
- Messages
- 281
This is gonna be hell fun
Renth
Smash Hero
Its the players not the characters
BSeeD
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
- Messages
- 281
Its the players not the characters
Maybe, but you can't ignore the fact that a team needs some characteristics to be viable.
I'm not really sure about the viability of a double Mewtwo team for instance, even if Taj and Vman are playing them.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,833
Here's a video from this weekend. Let me know if you have any feedback.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hshHi8jGwo&list=UU1y2sCO2CDIm_F1y8A5LuPQ&index=7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hshHi8jGwo&list=UU1y2sCO2CDIm_F1y8A5LuPQ&index=7
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
stop using side-b/down-b so much.
follow up with more than just jab after you get a jab off. this dude doesn't di anything lol
don't be so quick to up-b to the stage when simply falling to the stage would be a quicker option.
crouch cancel more.
UGHHHH STOP USING SIDE-B
also ganondorf can grab the ledge really quickly. stop jumping as soon as you get hit near the ledge. sometimes you could have just grabbed it and not taken a dtilt or two :[
http://youtu.be/0hshHi8jGwo?t=4m14s was legit, good stuff
learn when it's good to roll from the ledge, when it's better to waveland from the ledge, and when it's good to just get up and auto-jab. also, getting up from the ledge --> side-b/down-b are really good, so if you wanna spam b moves like a nub, the ledge is where to do it
http://youtu.be/0hshHi8jGwo?t=5m12s should never happen. just hold away! and get ready to di like a mother****er cause that's the worst place to get grabbed LOL but it's cool cause this marth is bad and doesn't know how to gimp.
http://youtu.be/0hshHi8jGwo?t=5m28s there were a million things you could have done there, and you picked one of his laggiest moves, against one of the fastest, gayest characters in the game. why? you straight up lost a stock because of that down-b lol
main things: work on di, stop using dumb moves, better recovering. you'll be fine.
follow up with more than just jab after you get a jab off. this dude doesn't di anything lol
don't be so quick to up-b to the stage when simply falling to the stage would be a quicker option.
crouch cancel more.
UGHHHH STOP USING SIDE-B
also ganondorf can grab the ledge really quickly. stop jumping as soon as you get hit near the ledge. sometimes you could have just grabbed it and not taken a dtilt or two :[
http://youtu.be/0hshHi8jGwo?t=4m14s was legit, good stuff
learn when it's good to roll from the ledge, when it's better to waveland from the ledge, and when it's good to just get up and auto-jab. also, getting up from the ledge --> side-b/down-b are really good, so if you wanna spam b moves like a nub, the ledge is where to do it
http://youtu.be/0hshHi8jGwo?t=5m12s should never happen. just hold away! and get ready to di like a mother****er cause that's the worst place to get grabbed LOL but it's cool cause this marth is bad and doesn't know how to gimp.
http://youtu.be/0hshHi8jGwo?t=5m28s there were a million things you could have done there, and you picked one of his laggiest moves, against one of the fastest, gayest characters in the game. why? you straight up lost a stock because of that down-b lol
main things: work on di, stop using dumb moves, better recovering. you'll be fine.
Veggiez
Smash Apprentice
Spam disable from both edges gg they have nowhere to run.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,833
The main reason I use the B moves is because I know they're good counters to some of Marth's approaches, so I use them when I'm expecting that approach. Because of that, when he doesn't approach, I get screwed over. It's much more of a patience issue than it is a dumb move issue. It's definitely a big issue, since I threw away a lot of stocks because of that, which is part of what caused me to lose.
Thanks a lot for all the feedback.
Thanks a lot for all the feedback.
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
lol, rapha, ganondorf's b moves are a good counter to some of marth's approaches maybe once every couple of matches.
I counted almost 10 uses of b moves in just TWO games.
stop fishing for hits, but opponent may be dumb, but ganondorf is more dumb.
it's not even the patience issue. using 10 side/down-bs against this guy would have been fine if they hit...but they didn't. your problem is move placement more than it is patience.
I counted almost 10 uses of b moves in just TWO games.
stop fishing for hits, but opponent may be dumb, but ganondorf is more dumb.
it's not even the patience issue. using 10 side/down-bs against this guy would have been fine if they hit...but they didn't. your problem is move placement more than it is patience.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
in case people are curious about my fox
http://www.youtube.com/user/emmawatsonsboyfriend?feature=watch
(vs lozr if you want to watch me lose. the rest i win lol)
http://www.youtube.com/user/emmawatsonsboyfriend?feature=watch
(vs lozr if you want to watch me lose. the rest i win lol)
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
next time i see you, mm my bowser with that fox 8|
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,833
Yeah, I think it's both. A lack of patience is the reason I used them so much, and bad move placement caused them to miss so much. They get punished pretty easily, so I have to be accurate when I use them, and I'm not that good at the game yet. I'm a lot better with my use of UpB, where I got a few hits using it, and got some KOs with it in teams.
I also haven't played Marth very much, so don't know how effective B moves are against him. I just know they're effective in the other matchups I've been playing recently.
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
just play more conservatively until you get better at move placement.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
What Ian said. Way, way, way too much side and down b. Using it from the ledge is good, but be careful vs. Marth because he has a lot of answers to those moves. You can down b or side b when Marth has double jumped or committed to an attack and is perfectly spaced, the pull back will dodge the attack and counter it with your side/down b.
Also, general Marth stuff: try incorporating more full hop fair. The Marth you were playing against tended to use fsmash a LOT. Which seems like a good option until you full hop fair. The great thing about this move is that the full hop will get around Marth's fsmash (and utilt usually) and is very safe. It is safe because you do not have to commit to a fair until you are sure that Marth has fsmashed (which is a laggy move). If you end up full hopping and your opponent hasn't committed to anything, you can always double jump back, jump onto a platform, waveland forward/back, etc. Point is, you have a lot of options at that point.
General ganon stuff: More wavelands. The point of wavelanding is not to look flashy and smooth, it is to increase your speed and mobility. Example: If your opponent is shielding and expecting a bair, instead of throwing out the bair, waveland behind them and grab. It is so quick that they rarely ever react in time.
Also, general Marth stuff: try incorporating more full hop fair. The Marth you were playing against tended to use fsmash a LOT. Which seems like a good option until you full hop fair. The great thing about this move is that the full hop will get around Marth's fsmash (and utilt usually) and is very safe. It is safe because you do not have to commit to a fair until you are sure that Marth has fsmashed (which is a laggy move). If you end up full hopping and your opponent hasn't committed to anything, you can always double jump back, jump onto a platform, waveland forward/back, etc. Point is, you have a lot of options at that point.
General ganon stuff: More wavelands. The point of wavelanding is not to look flashy and smooth, it is to increase your speed and mobility. Example: If your opponent is shielding and expecting a bair, instead of throwing out the bair, waveland behind them and grab. It is so quick that they rarely ever react in time.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,833
That full hop Fair sounds great. I'll remember it for the next time I play a Marth, and keep the option in mind for other matchups.
I've recognized there are plenty of times I attack out of a jump when there are better options, but I didn't think of wavelanding. I'll make sure to try that out. If you can't tell, my Ganon isn't particularly flashy, so I don't do stuff like that very often.
I've recognized there are plenty of times I attack out of a jump when there are better options, but I didn't think of wavelanding. I'll make sure to try that out. If you can't tell, my Ganon isn't particularly flashy, so I don't do stuff like that very often.