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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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Way too much fun, man haha. Mango is an... interesting... individual. Funny as hell though of course. Can't wait to catch up with you guys at evo! And hopefully mango too, assuming he's gonna be there.

And raph, yea it's good in a lot of other situations as well. It's good vs. falcon sometimes (usually FD when there are no platforms, of course, you would never fight falcon on FD in tournament...), it's good vs. Samus occasionally when trying to dodge a missile, and it can sometimes be good in dittos as well.

Here, try this, it's a waveland trick: instead of empty hop grab, if you see them with their shield up and you're about to fair them, don't. Instead, waveland back (out of their grab range) and ftilt. This can be better than a grab sometimes because it won't allow you to get grabbed (if they read your empty hop grab, sometimes they react and grab you first) and allows you to punish if they drop their shield. If they don't drop their shield, it's a good form of pressure (one of like 3 forms of ganon pressure lol)
 
Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

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bubbaking said:
It's also good against Samus because Sami tend to spam spotdodge. :p Actually, I'm convinced that at least half of Ganon's moveset is designed to punish spotdodges. Everything's so.........delayed. You spot-dodge but then realize that the attack didn't even come out yet. :scared:
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That just means you're bad at timing spot dodges.
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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Shiny Mewtwo said:
That just means you're bad at timing spot dodges.
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Not really when you pressure your opponent in a way where that kind of timing will be punished.. if they spotdodged that way then you can grab them. I dont think i've failed to punish spotdodges very often tbh. There's just so many timings you can exploit.. delay your Fair even more, or even Bair because the hitbox of that move will be out long enough to hit the end of the spotdodge. Dair is also a decent choice though more risky, you have to be confident in your read.
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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PseudoTurtle said:
Sure, if you can predict it, you can punish it. I've seen you tech chase with a grab ;) that little momentum cancel really does work like a charm.

What I'm saying is that I can never predict them for some reason.
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Well Samus does have a great spotdodge so you should assume that it will be used in that matchup. You have to understand that certain tools will be used more than others depending on the character you face. As for predicting it, try not to over-extend your moves too much where she can hit you after a spotdodge that way.. perhaps you'd need to space a little better. If you have good spacing then she's the one that will be second guessing what moves you will use to counter-attack her. Play the poking game on the ground a lot too, make her whiff first so you wont need to worry about it. The Fair isnt great i dont think in this matchup for spacing purposes I mean since she could easily get in if you are in the air first, i'd stick with faster moves. You can probably Fair her if she jumped first and you are facing her though uair is easily a better/safer option and also it's easier to use it for an immediate counter attack on reaction.

If you play this right then you can make her move the way you want, be very patient.

Edit: Seriously I wish I could just transfer what I see in my mind through yours. lol. It's so hard to explain.
 
bubbaking

bubbaking

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Shiny Mewtwo said:
That just means you're bad at timing spot dodges.
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PseudoTurtle said:
I'm with shiny mewtwo (black gold?) on this one. Ripple has a good samus and he started REALLY screwing me up by adding in spot dodges. It really messed up anything I had because I just was never expecting it.
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I don't think you guys are timing your attacks properly. Whenever I play against Ganon, they vary their attacks and always seem to hit me, and I'm really good at spotdodging, like, Fox's usmash at death %'s. I kept getting punished by Ganon's crap so much that I started just holding my shield up no matter what until he got too close (then I'll upB him if he tries anything).

Divinokage said:
Not really when you pressure your opponent in a way where that kind of timing will be punished.. if they spotdodged that way then you can grab them. I dont think i've failed to punish spotdodges very often tbh. There's just so many timings you can exploit.. delay your Fair even more, or even Bair because the hitbox of that move will be out long enough to hit the end of the spotdodge. Dair is also a decent choice though more risky, you have to be confident in your read.
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^^^This. Fair, stomp, bair, heck, even your downB and sideB seem to be good at catching spot-dodges. Grabs are also guaranteed combos into the hardest stuff, I think. Luckily, I no longer have any qualms with just holding my shield up. If you try to do something way too close, like grab or stomp, I just upB. If you don't, I WD OoS to reset the positioning.

PseudoTurtle said:
What I'm saying is that I can never predict them for some reason.
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I think, in that MU, Ganon is supposed to mess up Samus in CQC. The grab combos, CC-negating attacks, and stuff really get us up close. I always believed that Ganon's ability to punish spot-dodges really hard played largely into that aspect of the MU.
 
PaperstSoapCo

PaperstSoapCo

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Raph I only saw the Marty bid on yoshi and bf. what stuck out the most was your fear of getting hit by marth. On yoshi's you got punish alot because the smaller stage kept you in your shield more. You should practice playing against marth without shielding. You'll find that you can avoid getting punished if you keep your offensive options open past shield moves.

:phone:
 
RaphaelRobo

RaphaelRobo

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Yeah, I've noticed I've been using my shield a lot more recently in all my games, not just against Marth. It's a habit I'm trying to get out of, since I know I use it way too much, and I've seen myself get punished pretty badly for it in recordings. That set vs Marth was a lot better than my sets the week before that. Unfortunately none of my other tournament sets (both vs. Sheik) got recorded, and none of my friendlies did either. I'm pretty sure I shielded a lot less in those, so I feel like my shielding could be related to the pressure of playing in tourney/MMs.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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It's true. All the brains and experience in the world won't save you from giving your opponent free hits constantly because you goofed up something.

edit: LOL dorsey that taunt when LOZR sd'd cracked me up
 
Dorsey

Dorsey

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yeah he totally deserved that.

tipman: idk how to do that exactly, maybe fraps and that one program... the stream quality wasn't good though so re-translating it again through a process like that would prob just make it a bit worse. not worth it anyway being that it's a joke match between me and lozr(we play a lot) and ganon is just like my 4th or 5th best char or so... we were prob dying laughing for most of the match.

also, lozr ****ing ***** the ganon mu so it's tough to complain about getting 2 stocked by him sometimes.. most of y'all ganons have played him in some sort of setting, so you know.
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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That's a shame. I'd love to play your ganon someday, but good luck at noob4, hope you and eikelmann get to stomp some ***** ass foxes.

On a ganon-samus note (bubbaking where you at) http://www.twitch.tv/ripple884/b/365774410

Go to 42:30 and critique me. Please;)
Don't watch anything else on there tho, mostly garbage play and me learning the yoshi matchup (suuuuuuper easy matchup for ganon lmao)

46:03 -- unintentional edge cancel that cost me the match:c
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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warrior knight's movement is good for someone that doesn't main ganon. He missed a lot of opportunities in that first match though. Benteezy was just kinda on autopilot it seemed too.
 
B

Bl@ckChris

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fox is fun. you guys should play him if you want a reminder of how big ganons hitboxes are. cuz holy **** those things are huge, especially in teams.
 
RaphaelRobo

RaphaelRobo

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Short Hopping with Fox is the same as Kirby (4 frames, I think). It takes a lot of practice, but you can get the hang of it eventually. And they're really useful.

I completely forgot about your video. I'll take a look at it this evening, after I fail at learning to speedrun MP2, and before I annotate StarCraft videos for work.
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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I enjoyed the texture and sound mods, like Falco's side-b sounds like a DBZ teleport. Awesome! Though I dont really agree changing Ganon's sound, it makes it even more obvious when he jumps lol. Good music too.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Ok I haven't even watched this set. But the fact that you went from IC's vs Sheik to Ganon vs Sheik means you are a ****ing boss. I'll watch it later

Ganon vs Peach lol... your spacing is good. I respect your decision to chill on the edgeguarding if you don't feel comfortable and just stick to edge pressure, but you def. could have hit peach with a reverse uair or bair a few times and just said **** it. Good use of grabs and overall decent punishment out of them. PLAY MORE GANON.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Ian it does work, but at some percents (low%, not sure where the cutoff is) even if you are frame perfect peach can trade with her nair. So you not only want to be quicker but also space the fair at low percents to reduce the chance of trading hits.
 
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