-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
How to be a warrior with Ganon, the Kage Q&Eh, thread. Gotta rep your area. 
hainsaw:
Kage you and Guini are the top Ganons, mind telling me how you go about that match up?
hainsaw:Kage you and Guini are the top Ganons, mind telling me how you go about that match up?
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Well I'm not the master of that matchup either but one thing for sure is you have to shut down Falco and stop him from moving. You cannot let him move. So generally all Falcos will simply just run around and shoot lasers, one thing to do to approach could be stand near him and power shield a laser to forward tilt... I have difficulty to do that but it works well when I do land it. I think also when Falco lasers, waits for your shield, then starts doing Nair or downair to shine combos.. I guess one thing for sure is you gotta roll away, make sure not to get shield stunned in between. I don't think Ganon has any option when Falco is in your face. I think also you can crouch cancel Jab lasers (From the ledge too) when they hit you at all times and that's an amazing move to do against them. You can also stay somewhat close to them at poke range (Jab, Ftilt, downtilt) to apply pressure and make approach. And then you can back jump fair their face to a possible techchase or downair above their SH nair. You gotta find ways to knock him down asap and tech chase that **** and edgeguard. As for edgeguarding, angled down ftilt works decently, reverse upair too works very well.. I like to fair off stage when they start a fire falco, that way they have no chance of coming back lol. Oh ya also make sure to smash DI away, a shine if they land one, like that he won't be able to combo anymore. Umm.. what else now... Downthrow Chain Grab if you can do it of course and guess well. Oh ya, Falco's shield is terrible, you can attempt to do the Kage Special downair on him quite easily, and also make sure to space backairs every once in a while.. while also attempting to go through his shield. I think backair is pretty much the only move that could go through Falco's backair..How to be a warrior with Ganon, the Kage Q&Eh, thread. Gotta rep your area.
Kage you and Guini are the top Ganons, mind telling me how you go about that match up?
Also from the ledge if you can guess when he's gonna double laser or jump downair, you can punish him all the time. If he jumps downair or nair, you can space a backfist or jump back Fair. Chances are they gonna WC DI lol.
I hate the matchup and even I'm not sure what to do but I guess this is something anyway lol. High level Falcos are annoying!!
spider_sense
Smash Champion
You did pretty good, but I did miss a lot of grab opportunities, like there was a part where you played on Battlefield and tried to side step his jabs; why not grab? Remember to down throw, regrab, than upthrow to dsmash. That usually knocks up their quickly and sends Falco/Fox up in the air, which enables you to fair, bair, upair, or whatever you feel like doing. Also whenever you block all of Falco's shine combos, and you feel like you want to dair. DON'T! Instead Oos bair to because most likely they'll follow it up with an up-tilt which can put you in a really nasty situation.How to be a warrior with Ganon, the Kage Q&Eh, thread. Gotta rep your area.
Kage you and Guini are the top Ganons, mind telling me how you go about that match up?
Additionally, if you're fighting a really campy Falco you can lure him my holding your shield and dair OoS, and then follow it up with grab to downthrow to tech chase. You did extremely well, and you're mad good at power shielding lasers. haha It feels weird as fvck giving advice to the guy that you look up to as a Ganon main, but it's all good, just remember that grabs are your best friend in the spacies matchup. Good luck out there Tommy.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I'm honestly bad at grabbing and I generally make it up with more moves coming out lol. I'm getting way better at those empty jump or double jump grab.. I'm starting to mix it up like crazy, hopefully that'll help =P
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
Kage and Spider thanks. That helped a lot. I'll be working on those improvements.
SynikaL
Smash Lord
Yeah, when I play Ganon I often get so caught up in having fun being fluid with him, that I don't keep certain things in mind. But when I'm down to get serious with him: looking at match ups with that focus changes sh*t a ton.
Usually, it only takes about one hit to get a character into that "Red Zone". After that, pressuring them into making mistakes like Rolling towards you becomes more natural, cause' it effects your decision making. It changes how I play completely.
I'ma try to get some vids of my Ganon at FL Gaming. I'ma probably get owned, but whatever.
-Kimo
Usually, it only takes about one hit to get a character into that "Red Zone". After that, pressuring them into making mistakes like Rolling towards you becomes more natural, cause' it effects your decision making. It changes how I play completely.
I'ma try to get some vids of my Ganon at FL Gaming. I'ma probably get owned, but whatever.
-Kimo
Divinokage
Smash Legend
No no, You are going there to win! If you want to surpass normal boundaries then you gotta out mind the other player. I don't think it's good to go into a match expecting to lose. =P
Edit: I'm bad at theory, which is why I'm a warrior, I prefer showing what you need to do against a certain matchup in action.
SynikaL
Smash Lord
Lol. I'm more concerned cause I'm been practicing L-Canceling with the L-Button the last month and it's been a big change -- used to L-Cancel with Z. It's not quite there yet in terms of comfort and I still fvck up a lot of sh*t I don't normally.
You are right though. If I keep focused on owning peeps, I won't care about what button I'm pressing. That's part of making such a big change, I guess.
-Kye
You are right though. If I keep focused on owning peeps, I won't care about what button I'm pressing. That's part of making such a big change, I guess.
-Kye
Zolios
Smash Apprentice
If you waveland from the edge, is grab your best option? Also, I heard when you're hit in the air, you're left extremely vulnerable, so a good timed dair is your best option. Is this true?
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Kye you need to take me to FL Gaming. =(
SynikaL
Smash Lord
Lol, if you can make to my place the night before then that might work, otherwise...
-Kimo
-Kimo
spider_sense
Smash Champion
LOL, I'll let you know before the week is out.
Anyways, I have a question. How do you get around Marth's uptilt? I usually try to roll behind Marth to get in a grab, and all he has to do is turn around and up tilt me, and I just stay in the air and get combo'd, also if I try to space out my fairs, all he does is forward smash. Pretty much all this Marth player does is forward smash, and it's gets really annoying, cause I want to get close and **** it but I can't...
Anyways, I have a question. How do you get around Marth's uptilt? I usually try to roll behind Marth to get in a grab, and all he has to do is turn around and up tilt me, and I just stay in the air and get combo'd, also if I try to space out my fairs, all he does is forward smash. Pretty much all this Marth player does is forward smash, and it's gets really annoying, cause I want to get close and **** it but I can't...
SynikaL
Smash Lord
Don't roll behind Marth. You only get grabs on him if he messes up his spacing, you read a tech or wakeup, or you mindfvcked him with a Waveland and got inside his range. Ganon can't initiate grab opportunities, especially in this matchup, so don't even try. Keep your eyes on him, like I've told you. If he's spamming F. Smash and landing it, you're not paying attention. Try using full jump attacks like Fair, and Dair to bait that **** and punish. Just gotta focus on getting in his head more.
-Kimo
-Kimo
Divinokage
Smash Legend
However this I'm a master of! I am the Marth Slayer. You want to stay grounded as much as possible. Try to get a feel of how much range D Tilt has because that will be your main poke vs him. D tilt beats every move Marth has if he also stays on ground but if he starts spamming Fair in front of you, wait for the first one, shield it then upair out of shield right away punish. If you see a forward smash coming, jump over him downair, grab him in the air if he's at low % like 22 to 40, downthrow.. and then look at his DI.. if he DIs backwards, backair, if he DIs forward, Nair to again a possible backair or fair. Marth has also a ****ty shield, you can shield stab backairs really easily or fair. If you are able to land a D tilt, follow it up with an aerial and keep the pressure on, do not let Marth space stuff. I prefer being in his face at all times honestly, keeping my own space too, because if you go into a trade battle, that's good for Ganon as well.. you have to be extremely fast to beat Marth easily. The waveland forward tilt surprise is amazing too when you are far away. Mix it up, like.. do a down tilt on his shield, then maybe a F tilt right after, or wait for a move.. etc. etc... If you get a good guessing game then you will **** Marths no problems.
Also with stages with platform except maybe Yoshi Story, keep Marth in the air, he cant do ****! Pressure with upair all day or try to backfist his feet in his shield =P And I know Down tilt beats Marth's up tilt for sure. For edgeguarding, well a simple edgehog to roll works almost always, then the marth will land on stage, you can do a downair or backair to make him recover again. If he recovers low or tried to sweetspot DOWNAIR! lol. I find I get hit too much trying to reverse up air in that match up, spacing a downair never failed me.
I think this matchup is a lot of wait for something then punish. Be patient! =D
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Ah thanks Kye and Kage.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
And of course remember to smash DI away all his aerials, except downair of course, for that you want to smash DI inside the stage to tech, if he gets you. This matchup, you should be able to combo Marth while Marth can't combo you.
Linguini
Smash Master
rofl kage your advice is terrible,at least vs falco.You might know how to fight marth but you cant seem to put your ideas into words well LOL. Falco isnt as bad as you guys make think, like kye said stage control is a big thing.Ive given eggm a beating in a mm so I know his style. Tommay when I get back to the states ill post up some matchup strats cuz right now im on the run.
Later.
Later.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Tip, in the meantime the Falco advice Guini gave me last month was a great help.
Also about the cg, it's not always about guessing. Magus was/is really good at doing this purely off reaction. Usually once I reach a certain % I can chaingrab all day.
CluelessBTD
Smash Ace
I learned to fight Falco simply by watching Linguini's vids and seeing Xzalla play him. I now win majority vs a Falco he used to 3 stock me probably about 6 months ago
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Is it? Well I told you before I'm better at showing stuff in action, because that is the way of the warrior.. the way of action. lol.
Zolios
Smash Apprentice
No one answered my question D:
The lack of support from the ganondorf community dissapoints me. Gimpyfish would not allow for it!
Jay kay Kage and Linguini are 'kay.
The lack of support from the ganondorf community dissapoints me. Gimpyfish would not allow for it!
Jay kay Kage and Linguini are 'kay.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
lol, what was your question?
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Zolios if you waveland from the edge grab is a good option, but is very situational. Ledgedash (which is short for ledgehop waveland) to jab is invincible if executed frame perfect from grabbing the ledge and is also a good option. There are a ton of options. It really just depends on the situation.
Ganon is very vulnerable from underneath when in the air, that's just how it is. Dair is really your only choice as far as counter attacks (and if you must trade hits, definitely try to time the dair the best you can), but usually you just want to keep your distance and get back to the ground safely.
Your questions were really broad and vague, and I believe that is why they didn't get answered immediately. The Ganon boards kick a$$.
Ganon is very vulnerable from underneath when in the air, that's just how it is. Dair is really your only choice as far as counter attacks (and if you must trade hits, definitely try to time the dair the best you can), but usually you just want to keep your distance and get back to the ground safely.
Your questions were really broad and vague, and I believe that is why they didn't get answered immediately. The Ganon boards kick a$$.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Umm.. It's situational, you have to have good reaction time with Ganon. If you waveland from the ledge against a falco maybe he's gonna downair your grab.. so maybe a jab or f tilt works better in some cases. You have to recognize what situation you are in at all times. Mix it up.
And if you are in the air, it's best for you to retreat maybe on the ledge or maybe in a safer area so you don't get comboed or he can't hit you... depending which character you are facing, using a dair in the air can be good but you must space it for it to work.
What are some of the best characters that Ganon does well with in teams?
I have a friend that uses Falco, Fox, Captain Falcon, Jiggs, Sheik, and Pikachu. We team for tournies sometimes so I'm wondering which of these characters would suit him best when teaming with a Ganon. And he's pretty much great with all those chars and doesn't have a "true" main.
I have a friend that uses Falco, Fox, Captain Falcon, Jiggs, Sheik, and Pikachu. We team for tournies sometimes so I'm wondering which of these characters would suit him best when teaming with a Ganon. And he's pretty much great with all those chars and doesn't have a "true" main.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
From what I've seen and experienced, Ganon does quite well with Peach, Sheik, Fox, and Puff. There are others that I'm sure could be great but these definitely make for good teammates.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Why would Ganon + Puff good? The others I understand, but I don't know why Puff is amazing with Ganon. Well... Other than the fact that Puff is just good in teams.
CluelessBTD
Smash Ace
She can rescue him with rising pound for one.
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
I'd be scared to hit Puff on my team. Sounds like you'd need a different play style when Puffs on your team. I'm always a fan of Peach Ganon. I'd like to do Sheik Ganon but know of no Sheiks.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Puff in teams:
-great at saving teammates
-free rest when teammate gets a grab
-incredible edgeguarding options
A Ganon with good overall stage control can set up Puff for easy edgeguards on most stages. It's also hard to keep your distance from Ganon with Puff around, and without proper spacing it's that much easier for Ganon to get that crucial hit in to set Puff up for the edgeguard. Puff can also stop Ganon from being combo'd lol.
I don't think they make an amazing combination by any means, but Puff is so good in teams that I felt it should be mentioned.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Me and Darc almost beat M2k/Jman in Grand Finals at Apex.. so ya Ganon/Jiggs is good! lol. We often did my forward B to his rest lol.. also he managed one time, my downair to his rest lol. We did a lot of creative setups it was amazing.
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
Yeah ganon v. sheik is good but if you don't have a good sheik as a front man it turns into a sub-par team, imo. Peach + ganon is of course good, and so is jiggly + ganon... especially against top tier char teams.
The thought of a good pika + ganon team is interesting... I'd like to see someone like axe team with one of our top ganons. Could potentially wreck some spacies, as well as other top tier chars.
The thought of a good pika + ganon team is interesting... I'd like to see someone like axe team with one of our top ganons. Could potentially wreck some spacies, as well as other top tier chars.
TravisT
Smash Apprentice
Synikal, is there a benefit to l-canceling with a shoulder button as opposed to the Z-button? I've always found z much easier to l-cancel with, but if there's a benefit to using a shoulder button, then I'll practice doing that.
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
Shoulder button has it's benefits. You don't even need to click it all the way down but the thing I don't like about Z is you can't shield grab if you end up holding it too long and Z-canceling to grab probably has a funny feel to it.
SynikaL
Smash Lord
I really do think Z is the best method to L-Cancel... just, not for me ATM.
Z gives you consummate manipulation of the control stick for spacing, combos and just general tech skill, IMO. The act of pressing the L-Button directly influences your thumb on the Control Stick, making certain L-Cancels trickier than they need to be -- especially if a precise Fast Fall is involved.
Problem I ran into with Z, is on Defense. When under pressure, being forced to constantly switch between R and Z for defensive maneuvers like Shielding, Rolling, Side Stepping, Shield Grabbing etc -- along with constantly pressing Z -- started causing havoc with my right hand. I became proficient with it years ago because I had someone good to constantly play: now I don't. Trying to get back into the game, I felt like I had to do something different.
Whenever I watch any Ganons or Falcons play in particular, I cringe often due to awkward-looking spacing on certain aerials (Fair). I never understood why they seemed so "off" to me, till' I started using L myself.
I do think it's possible to get the same precision using L, it just seems to take a ton of practice and analysis.
-Kimo
Z gives you consummate manipulation of the control stick for spacing, combos and just general tech skill, IMO. The act of pressing the L-Button directly influences your thumb on the Control Stick, making certain L-Cancels trickier than they need to be -- especially if a precise Fast Fall is involved.
Problem I ran into with Z, is on Defense. When under pressure, being forced to constantly switch between R and Z for defensive maneuvers like Shielding, Rolling, Side Stepping, Shield Grabbing etc -- along with constantly pressing Z -- started causing havoc with my right hand. I became proficient with it years ago because I had someone good to constantly play: now I don't. Trying to get back into the game, I felt like I had to do something different.
Whenever I watch any Ganons or Falcons play in particular, I cringe often due to awkward-looking spacing on certain aerials (Fair). I never understood why they seemed so "off" to me, till' I started using L myself.
I do think it's possible to get the same precision using L, it just seems to take a ton of practice and analysis.
-Kimo
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
And that is why I use R.
Would the problem be fixed if you just use R? You can shield with R too. That's what I do. The only time I use Z is to grab or for light shielding, and I basically never use L. Should I change?
Would the problem be fixed if you just use R? You can shield with R too. That's what I do. The only time I use Z is to grab or for light shielding, and I basically never use L. Should I change?
TravisT
Smash Apprentice
Would a claw grip avoid those problems? The claw grip is dedicating the middle finger to R, and having the index hit X and Z, right? I hold my controller that way, and the only thing I really have trouble with is wavedash out of shield, since I airdodge and shield with the same button. I haven't been to many tournaments; how common is the claw grip? Are there hidden disadvantages to it, or is it just awkward to learn?
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
Danm Kye. You're over thinking Z and L. Only real difference is if you hold it down to long Z is more likely to put you in a jam. Only way I can see the L trigger messing up your precision with the control stick is if you have webbed fingers. I've never had a problem like that.
SynikaL
Smash Lord
It's hard to explain. You'd have had to actually Cancelled with Z at some point to know what I mean, trust me. It's not a "problem" for you, cause you've always used L, so you're settled and the reason I'm forced to "overthink" things is because I'm the one making the change. The difference between the two, as well as the change necessary between the two is drastic. Been dedicated to it for more than a month, and it's still not quite there yet.
RIP:
R's similar to Z, but I want to use L simply because it feels more balanced: less load for my right hand. Even though my tech skill sucks, I tend to play more inspired with L. Not 100% sure why; might be because it's something different.
Broken:
I always claw in any competitive game. Makes my fingers more nimble on the controllers. Hurts the hands and wrists though. Will likely have arthritis for sure.
-Kimo
RIP:
R's similar to Z, but I want to use L simply because it feels more balanced: less load for my right hand. Even though my tech skill sucks, I tend to play more inspired with L. Not 100% sure why; might be because it's something different.
Broken:
I always claw in any competitive game. Makes my fingers more nimble on the controllers. Hurts the hands and wrists though. Will likely have arthritis for sure.
-Kimo