Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[tufts!]

Yes it's matchup inexperience for them, I think they are starting to figure out that they can't sheild grab it. If you side-b on the front or back of their shield, a peach can get out a nair or bair and beat it right? I haven't played with many peaches that are that fast, but I'm guessing it is possible.

Thanks Kage, yeah I've noticed that being under peach is where I want to be. Baiting the d-smash with empty hops works frequently. On the ground what is the best approach? I try to space b-airs mostly. I also try to mix up f-airs with tomahawked/wavesomething jabs, f-tilts, and grabs. And then it seems that my only chance for recovering is going low and teching the down-b and immediately b-airing. Is there something I'm missing here?

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

any g dorfs goin to FC, $5 ganon ditto money matches, lez get it juicy. That includes your nub *** Kage. Dat Armor has fixed up the dents you put in it last time.

 

[Divinokage]

Best of 5? I will break that armor once more!! You won't be able to move.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

while were on the subject, Kage I want a rematch from MIST

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I want to MM Kage too. As soon as I get to his level, we can have the ultimate MM to decide once and for all whether or not purple is better than green.

 

[Divinokage]

You have to surpass me if you want to beat me in Ganon dittos. =)

 

[G. Vice]

any g dorfs goin to FC, $5 ganon ditto money matches, lez get it juicy. That includes your nub *** Kage. Dat Armor has fixed up the dents you put in it last time.

Trail, I'll MM you! Had fun matches last time we played.

 

[Divinokage]

Lol you went all out Sabin now. =P

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Trail, I'll MM you! Had fun matches last time we played.

aiiiight lez get it in

 

[Ripple]

watch out for the triple roll from trail, that **** is broken

 

[G. Vice]

Lol you went all out Sabin now. =P

What can I say? He was my favorite character in FF6 since I played the game at 8 years old

 

[LoOshKiN]

the vice is troublesome to put down.

I caught the turnip, threw it, and re-grabbed edge. WOOOWWWWWW.
I don't remember if it hit though; I do not think it did because I faintly recall a red shield.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Nick I have almost 10,000 posts more than 10x your posts. Waste more time on the internet already!

 

[Divinokage]

I actually played some Peach matches after so long (several months) vs Vwins and I didn't do too bad actually. But I wanted to confirm what I said about the Peach match-up, you can also upwards ftilt as she comes down with an aerial if the height permits it. Use the max range of the kick if possible and it will hit. You can Fsmash, side-b or even uair to trap her aerials, they are all good mix-ups. Though there's a lot of baiting you have to do in order to be able to hit her properly. Use your wavelands backwards or forward and then jab her or ftilt just make sure you hit her. Downtilt in this match-up is pretty bad overall.

 

[tufts!]

Upward forward tilt toooo good. That didn't even occur to me for this matchup. What percents does downthrow to upsmash work? I know its around 60, but I don't know at what percent I can start getting it and at what percent it stops working.

 

[-ACE-]

63% iirc for no di. After a certain point the first hit whiffs but the second can hit (better than nothing? lol). Kills on fd 61-63? Idk its been a while

I don't even have my cube but I think it might work up until 67%. Lol I used to know so many specifics about matchups, I forgot most of it.

 

[Divinokage]

Usually Peach will DI so I wouldn't recommend downthrow upsmash on Peach, it doesn't really work reliably unlike in certain other matchups.

 

[Geenareeno]

What matchup does D-throw to U-smash work reliably in???

 

[Divinokage]

Well it's totally DI dependent but I use it vs Mario, Doc, Jiggs, Marth sometimes.. uhh.. Ganon dittos.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

You forgot the space animals

EDIT: oops, that's up-throw to upsmash, my bad.

 

[Geenareeno]

So Kage, what do you have to say on the topic of di against Falcon. Watching you vs. Hax it seemed like for nair you would either cc, sdi up out the second hit or go down and towards him to avoid the second one. BUt what about U-air F-air ect. I can figure it out but I want to hear what you have to say. Also when spacing against Falcon should you sit just in between the range just outside of his tilt/grab/side-b but too close to running sh fair/nair? I know that wouldn't work perfectly but where should you generally be standing. It seems like you want to be pretty close.

 

[G. Vice]

So Kage, what do you have to say on the topic of di against Falcon. Watching you vs. Hax it seemed like for nair you would either cc, sdi up out the second hit or go down and towards him to avoid the second one. BUt what about U-air F-air ect. I can figure it out but I want to hear what you have to say. Also when spacing against Falcon should you sit just in between the range just outside of his tilt/grab/side-b but too close to running sh fair/nair? I know that wouldn't work perfectly but where should you generally be standing. It seems like you want to be pretty close.

It's all situational. I mean, it's reflex to DI "in" when you get kneed. But if you watch one of his matches you will see that his DI led Hax to a situation where another knee perfectly combo'd, leading in the loss of his stock. So there's times where your percentage matters, position on the map and then there's times if they make the right read there's nothing you can do.

 

[Divinokage]

So Kage, what do you have to say on the topic of di against Falcon. Watching you vs. Hax it seemed like for nair you would either cc, sdi up out the second hit or go down and towards him to avoid the second one. BUt what about U-air F-air ect. I can figure it out but I want to hear what you have to say. Also when spacing against Falcon should you sit just in between the range just outside of his tilt/grab/side-b but too close to running sh fair/nair? I know that wouldn't work perfectly but where should you generally be standing. It seems like you want to be pretty close.

Uair I always DI away from Falcon preferably somewhat close to the ledge so he can't follow up very well. Sometimes, I would willing DI ON the ledge so I can ledge cancel it as I fall on it and then resume an attack or try to retake the center. I mean generally I would grab the ledge when this happens to be safe. You can definitely purposely DI doing it like that. As for knee, if I'm under 50-60%, it will always be DI away if im not too close off-stage. At those percent though if I get kneed close to off-stage you kinda have to DI inside.

But ya for Nair, you know it will come most of the time so master your DI to avoid both hits because it's Falcon's main combo starter on Ganon. What you pointed out is correct, try to follow that.

 

[Ripple]

Pseudo wants more help. better quality videos this time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-exj-C5NAE&list=UU8n1cOrfw2-8HihgxK38yWw&index=2&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgM5GNdvFi0&list=UU8n1cOrfw2-8HihgxK38yWw&index=1&feature=plcp

 

[Geenareeno]

Just watched the first match of the first game. It's easy to see that the biggest problem (at least against Marth) is your DI. You've probably been told to DI away against Marth but yeah, that's what you're supposed to do. DI u-tilt behind him. Think about what moves he will do next and how you should di for the or if you can u-air out of his combo. This is something small but if he's poking your sheild with d-tilt you can angle it down, just sh fair to punish but space it properly because it won't be safe on sheild. Practice teching Marth F-smash, it's pretty important. You could probably improve your neutral game by dding a lot and wding. I think excessive (as far as the word can be used) dash dancing is good against Marth.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Thanks Blake, for taking the time to upload.

Also, thanks Geen. I have a ton of trouble with Marth for some reason. It's supposed to be an even matchup, but it's by far my worst of all of Ripple's characters haha.

I know my DI is horrible, I'm not really good enough to DI yet, but I'm working on it. It takes time I suppose. Uhhh, teching fsmash and marth's charged b when recovering is difficult, but I'm getting more consistent I suppose which is good. I still have problems with the wall jump bair thing that G. vice likes to do a lot.

Anything else on Marth? Anybody? Thanks to all in advance, I really appreciate it.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I only watched a little bit. Your Ganondorf's getting better. I wish that Warlock Punch had hit.

Then I stopped watching because I realized I'm too tired to give any decent feedback, and I've been playing so much PSO2 recently that I need to play a few games of Melee to get PSO2 combat out of my head.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I only watched a little bit. Your Ganondorf's getting better. I wish that Warlock Punch had hit.

Then I stopped watching because I realized I'm too tired to give any decent feedback, and I've been playing so much PSO2 recently that I need to play a few games of Melee to get PSO2 combat out of my head.

Lmao, yea that would have been super tight. Earlier that day, Blake was countering all of my dthrow areals because I was too slow. So I tried to warlock punch to try and counter his counter (yea...). Either way, I will use that in tournament, mark my words.

Either way, whenever you get the time, any feedback is appreciated. I will one day be the best ganon in the midwest. Buuuut for now, I still need as much help as possible

Also, one more thing: I have a pretty cool flashy edge guard against luigi that has never been used before. And now that we have a cap card, it will become a reality. When I show you guys, you will **** bricks.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Oh also, forgot to mention something about the falcon matchup. I find that when falcon is DDing dangerously close to you (meaning he is within both grab and nair range) that dash attack is a really great way to eat up some of that space. Is this true in high level play? I don't see it done that often.

 

[Geenareeno]

Falcon doesn't really ever need to be that close if i'm correct.

 

[LoOshKiN]

I watched your first match vs falcon and I thought you spent your double jump too much instead of wavedashing around. Play closer to the ground.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Thanks loosh, my ground game is pretty weak at the moment. Also, geen, I don't mean that he is literally in the range of his grab, I mean that he could easily run up and grab. I should have worded that better.

 

[spider_sense]

Pseudo wants more help. better quality videos this time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-exj-C5NAE&list=UU8n1cOrfw2-8HihgxK38yWw&index=2&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgM5GNdvFi0&list=UU8n1cOrfw2-8HihgxK38yWw&index=1&feature=plcp

Lol Your friend gave you alot of solid advice. You can shield grab alot of the single hop fairs, and if he does those dash dance baits, either do some of your own and do a retreating fair, bair or f-tilt. Also when fighting Marth, make sure you always aim your fair and bair towards his tiara, cause you'll poke right through his shield if he over commits to shielding. Don't be afraid to CC his incoming fairs too and retaliate with down tilt, jab or grab. You NEED to learn how to Marth killer as well (Hold z making your control stick is facing in the direction you're rolling) he can either go to the ledge and or die. I also noticed you don't keep aggression when Marth grabs the ledge, you tend to let him come back too much, if you space yourself out accordingly, he can't get back on freely. If he grabs you, he can't really do much except follow up your jump or try to combo you, DIing away is your best bet against him, you keeps eating you alive. xD It's all good man, I see you doing the right thing, you just have to keep playing the match up more. This match up sucks for me too, but the tips I gave you should help you body this kid.

 

[-ACE-]

You can also uair oos between double short hop fairs, if you can throw off their spacing.

 

[modern]

Hey guys,
just thought Id drop in here and say hello. I just started playing melee again, so Ill be asking for some critiques pretty soon

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

so many ganondorfs.

i am very pleased.

midwest is legit.

 

[Renth]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=318760

So Hype cannot sleep.

GONNA DO WORK SON.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Lol Your friend gave you alot of solid advice. You can shield grab alot of the single hop fairs, and if he does those dash dance baits, either do some of your own and do a retreating fair, bair or f-tilt. Also when fighting Marth, make sure you always aim your fair and bair towards his tiara, cause you'll poke right through his shield if he over commits to shielding. Don't be afraid to CC his incoming fairs too and retaliate with down tilt, jab or grab. You NEED to learn how to Marth killer as well (Hold z making your control stick is facing in the direction you're rolling) he can either go to the ledge and or die. I also noticed you don't keep aggression when Marth grabs the ledge, you tend to let him come back too much, if you space yourself out accordingly, he can't get back on freely. If he grabs you, he can't really do much except follow up your jump or try to combo you, DIing away is your best bet against him, you keeps eating you alive. xD It's all good man, I see you doing the right thing, you just have to keep playing the match up more. This match up sucks for me too, but the tips I gave you should help you body this kid.

Thanks man. There's a lot of useful advice here that I should try to incorporate into my game. I think the most important part of the matchup is to not be overly aggressive. The one problem that I have that just destroys me is when I'm near the edge and he is center stage. For some reason, he ALWAYS seems to get the grab. And then of course that's the stock.

EDIT: WHAT THE ****, RENTH?!?! Why don't I live in Flordia? Shiz, colbol, hbox, harriet, blea, chops, projecT, and ALL OF MY FAVORITE GANONS (minus Kage, Ace, Chris and G. vice). I will be brief: all of the ganon matches MUST BE RECORDED. I don't care if I have to send you guys my recording equipment. Too epic for words.

Good Luck to everybody!

 

[G. Vice]

I think Kage, ACE, Chris, Eikelmann, Rockcrock, Spidey, Linguini and myself are like ALL the Ganons lol.

You trying to say all Ganon mains are your favorite?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I think Kage, ACE, Chris, Eikelmann, Rockcrock, Spidey, Linguini and myself are like ALL the Ganons lol.

You trying to say all Ganon mains are your favorite?

Hmm, I guess you got a solid point... but yea kinda haha. To be fair I guess my top favorites are kage spidey and linguini (original, I know). Either way, I base some aspects of my style off of all you guys (or at least try to) to some extent.

Oh and btw, you forgot renth