Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Smokey Huntz]

Smokey Bluntz, I just wanted to say, I like your username.

Your apreciation is apreciated

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

frame data is bull****.

 

[CK Momentum]

Do you guys know where I might be able to find some falco vs. ganon matches where falco just gets destroyed? I'm sure kage must have some good sets online, do you guys think you might be able to help me out?

 

[-ACE-]

watch some old sets of linguini vs lambchops, lots of close matches where linguini almost always wins.

 

[spider_sense]

Do you guys know where I might be able to find some falco vs. ganon matches where falco just gets destroyed? I'm sure kage must have some good sets online, do you guys think you might be able to help me out?

Here are some really good sets of Linguini vs Shizwhiz. I personally think Emilio is better at the match-up, so just stick to watching his vids. :3 (no offense to Kage)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_uSaQ28TU8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvezowqH5Ik&feature=related

 

[Palpi]

old video is old

 

[CK Momentum]

Here are some really good sets of Linguini vs Shizwhiz. I personally think Emilio is better at the match-up, so just stick to watching his vids. :3 (no offense to Kage)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_uSaQ28TU8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvezowqH5Ik&feature=related

Hi spidersense, thanks so much, my college is holding a tournament and I know I'm most likely going to have to face a ganon in WF, so I'm really working hard at learning the ins and outs of the matchup.

Can't thank you enough.

-CK.

 

[spider_sense]

old video is old

Why you trollin' son? lol

@ CK - Yeah the Falco/Ganon MU is almost even (45-55 Falco's favor), but as Falco you can exercise your lasers for space control while putting down pressure. If you can manage to get behind Ganon's shield he's almost always vulnerable. Plus edge guarding Ganon is fairly easy, if he's below the stage and has to up-b; depending on how he's recovering you can either down smash or dair (dsmash instead of forward smashing, because it's harder to tech)

 

[CK Momentum]

This guy has a really good out of grab game, and so my main focus in practice has been sheild pressure and thinking about how i will not get grabbed. My lasers are usually on point though. My biggest weakness is ledge guarding. I'm actually considering CP'ing to brinstar, since falco dies at a lower percent anyways, and I get most of my kills from bair combos. I've been thinking up a pretty solid plan for the matches though.

 

[Palpi]

Why you trollin' son? lol

@ CK - Yeah the Falco/Ganon MU is almost even (45-55 Falco's favor), but as Falco you can exercise your lasers for space control while putting down pressure. If you can manage to get behind Ganon's shield he's almost always vulnerable. Plus edge guarding Ganon is fairly easy, if he's below the stage and has to up-b; depending on how he's recovering you can either down smash or dair (dsmash instead of forward smashing, because it's harder to tech)

me explaining myself would only make people mad lol

 

[cmac]

I was wondering, when being chaingrabed by a sheik what is the best way to get out of it? Tech in place?

 

[-ACE-]

There's no teching unless she wiffs a regrab when you're at low% (in that case techroll away lol). mix between partial di away and full di away and try to throw her off. If they chaingrab you to the max, they will be obviously be looking for a fair if you DI away. If you di back or not at all, you can get usmash'd.

 

[LoOshKiN]

I heard it through the grapevine that in the neighborhood of 70% ganon can get out if he inputs no DI and jumps asap.

I usually just DI towards a platform though

 

[cmac]

Ok thanks,
And I'm also curious which throw I should use for chain grabbing sheik, fox, and falco. Is it up throw or dthrow?

 

[-ACE-]

it's always dthrow. practice jc grabs a lot.

and pivot grabs/pivot jc grabs immediately out of dthrow animation

also imo fox is too hard to cg off reaction until he's at 60 at least. fox is hard.

if you cg a level 1 sheik you will get good at regrabbing DI behind. that's all you'll learn but it's vital. it helped me a lot.

 

[cmac]

it's always dthrow. practice jc grabs a lot.

and pivot grabs/pivot jc grabs immediately out of dthrow animation

also imo fox is too hard to cg off reaction until he's at 60 at least. fox is hard.

if you cg a level 1 sheik you will get good at regrabbing DI behind. that's all you'll learn but it's vital. it helped me a lot.

thanks a lot, this should really help me in the sheik/ganon MU

 

[RaphaelRobo]

When I reverse ledge hop, should I go off the stage and grab the edge again?

I was playing my friend today, and found that after a certain percentage (that I forgot) I could consistently D-throw into a Usmash KO. Would this work against a good player, or would they be able to DI out of the way?

Also, here's a video of me from the NCSU tournament: http://youtu.be/XVNHtnqEffU
Clearly you can see why my Ganon makes Kage's green with envy.

I'll have a few from friendlies uploaded over the next few days. I'd appreciate it if I could get some feedback on my play. I got some from other people during the tournament, and a lot from Chris during our dittos (unfortunately only one was recorded, and it was probably the most boring one), but I figure more couldn't hurt.

EDIT: Also, what's the best stage to try to play against Falcon? I had to play him a few times, and each time the Falcon player eliminated Fountain, I got rid of FD and Dream Land, then he got rid of Battlefield, so we played on Yoshi's. Also, what's a good CP stage? I chose Brinstar, and it seemed to work out pretty well.

 

[Geenareeno]

Wow those were some of most exciting matches in that level of play ever, good stuff. Mostly I would say your biggest flaw is you're not playing the game... right. What I get from watching that vid is you're just using moves and hitting him and stuff. Try to actively think about spacing, punishing, and movement as you play. I could nitpick some more but that's the big one. Also i'm not really legit but i'm quite sure my advice is good. **** down-b and epic fair trade in the middle of brinstar. I would say don't take CF to Yoshi's cuz his knee kills so early. BF and DL are your best bets (I would like someone better than me to say which stage to take CF to). Also Brinstar will probably be banned soon but yeah it's pretty good.

 

[Jane]

incorporate crouch cancelling into your game. generally against falcon its not the best option since he'll just knee your face and not give a damn, but its still important to rounding out your ganon. also, tech stuff. you hardly teched.

/advice from a bad ganon

 

[VGmasta]

Yeah, constantly competing against Falcon's aerials without great spacing is a bad idea. Falcon's aerials come out faster. Falcon has less L-cancel lag and gets in and out of the air faster than Ganon.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Wow those were some of most exciting matches in that level of play ever, good stuff. Mostly I would say your biggest flaw is you're not playing the game... right. What I get from watching that vid is you're just using moves and hitting him and stuff. Try to actively think about spacing, punishing, and movement as you play. I could nitpick some more but that's the big one. Also i'm not really legit but i'm quite sure my advice is good. **** down-b and epic fair trade in the middle of brinstar. I would say don't take CF to Yoshi's cuz his knee kills so early. BF and DL are your best bets (I would like someone better than me to say which stage to take CF to). Also Brinstar will probably be banned soon but yeah it's pretty good.

I'm glad to hear you thought they were exciting. Out of curiosity, with that down-b, would I have been able to recover? I used it a bit lower than I normally feel comfortable with, but I felt it was worth the risk given that I was sure anything else would lead to Falcon hitting and KOing me. You can hear me in the background saying "I'm counting that as a win" after the Down-B.

I haven't even been thinking about spacing or punishing. I'll try to focus on those more. I'm working a lot on movement, but I'm usually not actively thinking about it when I play. If you watched me that day, you would see I pressed B every time I was on a ledge. Occasionally I jumped, but I only ledgehop jabbed twice, even though I can do it easily. I wasn't wavedashing very well that day, though. I think part of the reason for that is that I usually practice on an HDTV. I'll be picking up a CRT this weekend so I won't have lag anymore. The main reason, though, was I just didn't think about dashing during the games. I also didn't think about short hopping. By the end of the day, I was sure I hadn't done any. Looking back, though, I did do a few. I also wavedashed occasionally, but nowhere near as often as I should have. I missed almost all my platformdashes, and I'm pretty bad at landdashing. Wavedash jabbing is my favorite thing to do in the game, though, so I'm surprised I didn't do it more often

I picked Yoshi's because I thought it had a lower ceiling than DL. Given how good the knee is, though, I'll make sure I go to DL from now on. I can see why Brinstar would be banned, given that I was able to get Lightsyde's Falcon down to 1 stock on it, even though he's a far better player than I am.

incorporate crouch cancelling into your game. generally against falcon its not the best option since he'll just knee your face and not give a damn, but its still important to rounding out your ganon. also, tech stuff. you hardly teched.

/advice from a bad ganon

Alright, I'll try to crouch cancel more. I don't think I do it at all, and I've heard it's extremely useful against most characters. And the lack of teching was due to me not being used to a lag-free TV. I pushed the R button too early every time.

Yeah, constantly competing against Falcon's aerials without great spacing is a bad idea. Falcon's aerials come out faster. Falcon has less L-cancel lag and gets in and out of the air faster than Ganon.

I'll try to have better spacing next time I play Falcon. Looking at the video after your comment, I can definitely see why it's bad.

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[Geenareeno]

I'm glad to hear you thought they were exciting. Out of curiosity, with that down-b, would I have been able to recover? I used it a bit lower than I normally feel comfortable with, but I felt it was worth the risk given that I was sure anything else would lead to Falcon hitting and KOing me. You can hear me in the background saying "I'm counting that as a win" after the Down-B.

I haven't even been thinking about spacing or punishing. I'll try to focus on those more. I'm working a lot on movement, but I'm usually not actively thinking about it when I play. If you watched me that day, you would see I pressed B every time I was on a ledge. Occasionally I jumped, but I only ledgehop jabbed twice, even though I can do it easily. I wasn't wavedashing very well that day, though. I think part of the reason for that is that I usually practice on an HDTV. I'll be picking up a CRT this weekend so I won't have lag anymore. The main reason, though, was I just didn't think about dashing during the games. I also didn't think about short hopping. By the end of the day, I was sure I hadn't done any. Looking back, though, I did do a few. I also wavedashed occasionally, but nowhere near as often as I should have. I missed almost all my platformdashes, and I'm pretty bad at landdashing. Wavedash jabbing is my favorite thing to do in the game, though, so I'm surprised I didn't do it more often

I picked Yoshi's because I thought it had a lower ceiling than DL. Given how good the knee is, though, I'll make sure I go to DL from now on. I can see why Brinstar would be banned, given that I was able to get Lightsyde's Falcon down to 1 stock on it, even though he's a far better player than I am.

Good assessment. Yeah attacking from the ledge too often is a really bad habit that you won't necessarily get punished for until you fight really good players. Don't forget to roll occasionally. Yeah playing on an hd tv is pretty much useless, you will need to adjust and then all of a sudden your techskill will be much better.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

It's not entirely useless. 62 inches is good for bragging. Then again, the CRT I'm getting will be 35-42 inches, so I can still brag about it. My friends punish me for attacking from the ledge, and they're bad enough that I can consistently 3-stock most of them without thinking. There are a couple where I have to think in order to 3-stock them. I got punished for it a lot at NCSU, so I need to not do it anywhere near as often. I do think it's underused, though, and most people open themselves up to it against players that don't do it often. At the moment I don't ledgehop soon enough after I fall on the ledge, so I get hit before I have a chance to jab anyone. That's something else I need to work on.

 

[spider_sense]

When I reverse ledge hop, should I go off the stage and grab the edge again?

I was playing my friend today, and found that after a certain percentage (that I forgot) I could consistently D-throw into a Usmash KO. Would this work against a good player, or would they be able to DI out of the way?

Also, here's a video of me from the NCSU tournament: http://youtu.be/XVNHtnqEffU
Clearly you can see why my Ganon makes Kage's green with envy.

I'll have a few from friendlies uploaded over the next few days. I'd appreciate it if I could get some feedback on my play. I got some from other people during the tournament, and a lot from Chris during our dittos (unfortunately only one was recorded, and it was probably the most boring one), but I figure more couldn't hurt.

EDIT: Also, what's the best stage to try to play against Falcon? I had to play him a few times, and each time the Falcon player eliminated Fountain, I got rid of FD and Dream Land, then he got rid of Battlefield, so we played on Yoshi's. Also, what's a good CP stage? I chose Brinstar, and it seemed to work out pretty well.

Listen to more Drake and you'll be in there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wutb9QXy8Bc

 

[RaphaelRobo]

How about this song? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pELNaTa1BM

All I have to do is think of melee as business.

 

[Geenareeno]

How about this song? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pELNaTa1BM

All I have to do is think of melee as business.

Haha, I love that song. Also since we're on the topic of music: my avatar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ARqYpCjgc

 

[Bl@ckChris]

oh yeah raphael, i told you i was gonna show you a vid of my week 2 competitive ganon. this is also after 2 years of casual play at my high school lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE_91pgWfB8&feature=channel_video_title

so really, we're starting out around the same place. it won't be long before you can move like me, and once you're exposed to it, you'll really start trying to think a little more too.

also, this vid is pretty cool and useful for beginners in general: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9MSV9LTHRM

(thats me at :20 with that shieldbreak LOL)

 

[Dorsey]

@raph/geen--on yoshi's CF v. Ganon is kind of a if-you're-comfortable-with-it kind of thing imo(I would pick yoshi's...maybe different if FoD/cruise were present). I mean the falcon player is probably thinking the same thing in regard to dying fast except by ganon.. and "I WANT DREAM LAND". idk, in the falcon ganon match-up a lot of it is going to be tech-chases/reads/etc.... Concerning CF's over-all movement I'm more comfortable if he has less room to run around with... i also like yoshi's in general as ganon.

 

[Linguini]

Tipped off 7 this weekend!

gonna rep that ganon hard.....and I def hope i fight pp in bracket! Should be cool to test out my fox against oos sheik's.

payce *****s!

 

[Divinokage]

Show me what you've got, you better not fail!!

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

ganon's unite!

 

[Geenareeno]

NoobKing where is your sig when we need it?

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I picked up a CRT TV today, and I can definitely tell the difference. At the moment my platform/ledge dashes kind of work, but not really. I can't landdash at all, but that's fine, because I couldn't really do it on an HDTV anyway.

oh yeah raphael, i told you i was gonna show you a vid of my week 2 competitive ganon. this is also after 2 years of casual play at my high school lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE_91pgWfB8&feature=channel_video_title

so really, we're starting out around the same place. it won't be long before you can move like me, and once you're exposed to it, you'll really start trying to think a little more too.

also, this vid is pretty cool and useful for beginners in general: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9MSV9LTHRM

(thats me at :20 with that shieldbreak LOL)

That vid was pretty useful. Also, that reminds me of my Ganon, although I think mine is slightly better. My week 2 was a lot like that, though. The people at my high school want do "competitive" play with each other. There's one of them who thinks he can play evenly with me, so I pointed out he's only beaten me once, and the last few times we've played I've three stocked him. Well, technically he's beaten me three times, but the other two were on Brawl and 64, and the only time I've ever played those games were against him. And both games were 2-1 going down to the last stock every time. He's one of the better players at my school, though, because he's one of the 5 that I have to think against in order to 3 stock. If I'm actually sitting there thinking, 3/4 stocking those guys isn't hard. If I'm not really trying, the games are a lot more even.

I'm going to get my movement so good that next time we play you'll think I was The Flash. I'm going to get my spacing so good that next time we play you'll think you were in Outer Space. I'm going to get my Punishment so good that you'll think I was a Weaville. And yes, I really couldn't come up with anything better for that than referencing Pokemon.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

well robo, definitely don't discourage the others from trying to join us. If you can be the link to 5 or 6 more new players in your area, i'd say definitely show them the things that we're trying to show you. crews like what you can have are what make players get a lot better a lot faster, as long as they're all looking to improve. It's always cool to be a leader of such a group, but it's also good to have competition that's all trying to beat each other.

if you can convince them to have a bunch of different mains, that also helps

 

[RaphaelRobo]

At the moment, my friends main the following (also, I've ranked them in terms of how good they are, in my opinion):

Jigglpuff
Samus
Ness (the guy I was mentioning earlier)
Falco
Link (He might switch to Marth)

The only one of these that beat me in a game during the last month was the Samus in a bo3 match. I won G1, he CPed Final Destination and won on his last stock, so I played seriously and 3 stocked him on Battlefield. That was at a party I had at my house, where we had double elimination tournaments for 64, melee, and brawl. That was the only time I'd played 64 and brawl, and I came 3rd in each playing Falcon and Olimar, respectively. The melee one I 2-0ed every other match.

I try to encourage them to get better, but I don't want them to think they're better than they actually are. Maybe it's just me, but if someone is good enough to absolutely destroy me, I want to know that they're that good, I don't want them to pretend that we're similar in skill level.

I've tried to convince some of them to learn wavedashing and L-cancelling (I think those are probably the two most important to start with, since they both speed up your game a lot and help you improve reflexes a lot. Not to mention they're easier than other techniques). The problem is we only play 40 minutes a day during lunch at school, and it's on my laptop rather than a TV. I only have one adapter, so other people have to use PS2 controllers. The other problem is they don't seem to care enough about getting better to actually put work into improving. One guy wanted to learn to wavedash, but couldn't pick it up after a few minutes, so decided to go back to playing without being able to do it. The guy who plays Ness says wavedashing is pointless because Ness should be played slowly and shouldn't move around quickly. Plus, most of them prefer to play Brawl because it has better graphics and melee is "too old".

I did show them some of the videos from the NCSU, and that it was possible to beat me, and they all wanted to improve. Then they forgot about it the next day and went back to what they were doing before.

EDIT: I just thought I'd say that I really want my friends to improve. I find it a lot more fun to play against people who are as good as or better than me. The most fun I've ever had playing Melee was at NCSU, where I lost almost every game I played. Everyone was way better than me, and I found it fun to play against people who are that good and learn from playing against them.

 

[Divinokage]

Eww if they prefer Brawl.. then i'm not sure how you can convince them otherwise.. lol.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I just remembered something.

Also, I won't consider myself a true Ganon until I can do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq-tQJg7r38#t=435s

Mission Completed. http://youtu.be/XVNHtnqEffU#t=128

 

[-ACE-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4apqchGBKvo

this match is lolz. i sucked pretty hard back then and this was before yay learned the ganon matchup. 2 and a half years ago

 

[Bl@ckChris]

lol yay's playstyle hasn't changed at all...he's just a lot better at it now haha.

 

[-ACE-]

He learned a few really important things about the ganon matchup about a year and a half ago actually, and he's been beast ever since.