A vid of my most recent stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKfR2NeCNRQ
I'll just leave it in yr hands, Swoops :]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKfR2NeCNRQ
I'll just leave it in yr hands, Swoops :]
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Offline? "Swe-Fi" is as close to offline as it gets.So do any of those followups from bair > bair and bair > upair legitimately combo (offline)?
I guess I should add some more vids >.<.A vid of my most recent stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKfR2NeCNRQ
I'll just leave it in yr hands, Swoops :]
...I can't remember that section at all o.o. Most of the f-air spacing stuff I just put into f-air itself I was pretty sure. Although I could throw in that diagram of the f-air hitbox that I think DAD did.Hey, where's the "Swoops Spacing"-section?
I thought I'd find it somewhere in your this guide, but I didn't ;\
(All that stuff you wrote about Fair Spacing before you had your Brawl Break)
I felt a desire to read it again :sad:
Blasphemer -_-Sliqs guide is still really good imo, even now.
I kill with DA :embarrassI'll never be able to master linking out of dash dance, and it saddens me greatly. This is not exaggeration.
The best I've got is Dash Dance -> Dash -> True Pivot & Dash Dance -> Dash -> Dash Dance (direction change).
However, I can't link these end to end. I simply cannot do it. When it comes to dash dance, I have to know what I'm doing before I start doing anything. It almost removes the point of dash dancing, but it still works, sometimes.
. . . .
*SIIIIIIIIGGGHHHHHH*
Oh. We need a metagame discussion thread. Lots of other boards have them. And I have theories to share.
Guide needs to be updated for moveset. Dash Attack doesn't kill anymore. No one gets hit by it. That move is for damage racking with its awesome priority. On a dash attack.
We need to put the tricks we've found up. dtilt just doesn't do everything. It's about uairs and setting up stomp, and spamming roll anyway because Ganon's is good. >.>
How could you forget such a great write down? Amnesia?...I can't remember that section at all o.o. Most of the f-air spacing stuff I just put into f-air itself I was pretty sure.
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤As for f-air, every Ganondorf main should be learning to space this very, very well. It should be your second nature to pull this out and hit with the very end of your fist. It would be helpful for someone to get a hitbox pic, but I can try to get a detailed one (I just wish there was something to get completely accurate hitbox pictures.)
When hitting with the inside portion of the f-air, it does much less knockback, much less shield stun and pushback, and a little bit less damage. Land with the just the tip of this move (the area arches from directly above and in front of Ganon when it starts out, and decent amount below him when it finishes,) and it does insane knockback, often killing medium weights off the side of the stage as early as 70%, pushes their shield back very far, and does a good amount of shield stun for Brawl. The shield stun and pushback are good enough to where most characters won't have quick enough moves to dole out the punishment. Of course, there are quick enough dash attacks, and definitely tether grabs that can take advantage of the lag, but that's why you have to know who you're fighting against.
You must know that if you don't connect with either the opponent or a regular shied (not powershield,) you will get punished. That is what becomes slightly tricky with f-air as you go along. You have the start up frames, and you have to be in juuuust the right range. Sounds hard, but it's just tricky sometimes. You have to be in the right range to stay outside theirs and hit with the sweetspot, but inside the right range to where you don't miss and get screwed. Spot dodging and powershielding seems like a problem at first, but with the timing of f-air, it becomes a little bit harder for them to time spot dodges and PSing.
Spacing f-air just takes quite a bit of practice and getting used to. Make sure that you fast fall the attack into their shield and range a lot, otherwise you're going to be hanging in the air after missing while they're on the ground ready to punish. Double jump becomes a very useful tool for setting up f-air spacing, as you can control the fall and range a little better. You should also learn to space it over moves as well, as the hitbox comes in around in arching motion to come over and skull crush a lot of moves. DK is a character where f-air can be very effective at competing with his own spacing game and beating a lot of his ground game.
Edgeguarding with f-air is something that should be used a little more often as well. It's definitely risky, especially with walk off f-air, because you barely grab the ledge to make it back, which can allow for an edgehog from decently smart players if you miss. Walk off f-air is still a main edgeguard in my book though. It requires almost no set up time if your near the ledge (tipman and stomp still require set up times that are much easier to see coming,) covers a very wide area, and will blast people off the side at fairly early percents.
I see f-air becoming a very big part of Ganondorf's game as we go along, as it's a very decent spacing tool that is fairly safe, causes lots of damage and knockback, and can out space even Marth in some scenarios. It's definitely something that can completely trump MKs range. I know that f-air can completely pressure a lot of opponents with a far reaching move that can KO a lot of characters at surprisingly low percents, and that can out space most characters in the game. It has its own weaknesses, but overall with proper use, it becomes a very deadly tool in Ganon's arsenal.
EDIT: Yes crunch, I put it better than you did :D. Lol, I don't think it takes a bunch of devotion, but it does take some work to make f-air extremely viable in a higher level of play.
Sounds coo' !Seeing as how I found out you can true pivot out of the dashdance, it resets you to neutral allowing you to do anything, shield, d-tilt, jab, wizkick.
I've actually been doing that with my Marth... in Brawl+, but hey, same thing. Although it's mostly just fsmash. Mmmmm, fsmash.Anyway, I've been working out dashdancing a lot more. I've gotten pretty **** adept at it, so much so that anything can be done out of it. That's right. Seeing as how I found out you can true pivot out of the dashdance, it resets you to neutral allowing you to do anything, shield, d-tilt, jab, wizkick. The timing is still strict, but it seems like it's getting easier.
yeah when we played your dashes dances were the tightest I've ever seenAnyway, I've been working out dashdancing a lot more. I've gotten pretty **** adept at it, so much so that anything can be done out of it. That's right. Seeing as how I found out you can true pivot out of the dashdance, it resets you to neutral allowing you to do anything, shield, d-tilt, jab, wizkick. The timing is still strict, but it seems like it's getting easier.
It's both really. The idea is to keep the opponent guessing, while keeping most or all of your options open. Probably one of the most important things to remember is that dashdancing shouldn't replace your standing position.I find it kind of hard to effectively use dash-dancing, any tips on when to apply it? Like, for example, should I use it to punish approaches (reverse f-smash out of pivot), or fake out the enemy to kill (dash-dance and then DA)? Every time I dash-dance my enemy just punishes me.
The Video Footage was well perfromed, sbf.The Gerudo Pressure
This trick is based on "Gerudo -> Walk away -> Fsmash". The Gerudo Pressure is another technique to punish "Get Up" attacks after Flame-Choke. It's a formidable trick which works with Perfect Angles.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3m2D_QHmuU&feature=channel_page
Flame-Choke -> Dair To Backward -> Fsmash (Salmon Smash)
Pros:
- It's truly Guaranteed against people and all characters.
- Does 34% (Refreshed).
- You can use whenever time you want to punish the get up attack of your opponent during a Chainchoke.
- Can be used as a Finish Trick.
- This Trick has a Perfect Accuracy.
Cons:
- A little bit hard to perform.
- Your opponent can shield the Salmon Smash.
- Predictable.
I might start a section about Gerudo tech chasing called "Preventing Their Freedom" or "Crushing Their Hope/Destroying Their Freedom"...or something like that. This would be something that would go in there. The idea of starting a tech chase section has always been in the back of my mind, but I'm usually very iffy to do it considered a lot of it is your own creativity, more about things that work for you.
I tested this trick both ONLINE and OFFLINE and it worked perfectly for me.its not guaranteed on anyone. There are chars which you cant hit with dair if they roll behind you (like Lucario, Ike etc)
Where is it guaranteed on all characters if they can shield it?
And where is this hard to perform?:D i could truly do it with 1 hand eyes closed
Too many faults ? lulzGood tech, good to use every once and a while. Just used this A LOT in a match to test its power. I found that its reliability degraded after several usages. My opponent ended up perfect shielding it and punishing me after my 3rd or so use. I can imagine that one would use this as a surprise kill, which I did, and not a constant flame choke follow up. There are too many faults in this tech to use it constantly after flame choke.
Tech isn't really the right word to describe it. I wouldn't be picky usually, but this is a strategy more than anything. I like the strategy, because I've used it a few times. You jump back with stomp to bait a reaction, then you follow up with something.I tested this trick both ONLINE and OFFLINE and it worked perfectly for me.
If your opponent don't shield it, it's truly guaranteed dude. Dair gives you a perfect position for the Salmon Smash (Perfect Angle).
Actually isn't hard to perform..
~~
Too many faults ? lulz
~~
Swoops, did you really like my tech ? Well... It's weird but, if you're good at chainchoking, you can use that trick to inflict a good damage (If your opponent don't shield the Salmon Smash).
Well... That's make sense. Tech isn't the right name.Tech isn't really the right word to describe it. I wouldn't be picky usually, but this is a strategy more than anything. I like the strategy, because I've used it a few times. You jump back with stomp to bait a reaction, then you follow up with something.
But calling it guaranteed is very off, because it has many instances where people can get out of it. I get saying "this is guaranted if they _____." But they can just get up normally and shield, buffer an attack and still shield. If they can shield the attack, that means they roll away from it and spot dodge it too. The only instance where they get hit is if they delay a get up attack, roll towards you, or stand up even after noticing that you're stomping backwards, which gives them an indicator. But it's a useful strategy to mix in with your chokes.
this is definitely true. If you do a **** combo on someone and then, say, Aerudo them while they're on stage and you aren't, they WILL roll away like 99% of the time to try and separate themselves from the ****. Trust me, follow up with another gerudo, it'll workAnd... (Probably common knowledge) the opponent is WAY easier to predict when he's/she's stressed.
Psychology really does play a big role in our Gerudo Game.
thats mePeople who are smart and do ridiculous things on get up to remain unpredictable are annoying. This is where you either take a wild guess or work on your reaction chasing.
That's a great explanation Swoops, everything makes sense. I noticed some weird habits when I play at Wifi.Well a lot of Gerudo tech chasing I do plays off the terrain and their psychology. People, who get stressed and nervous have a tendency to revert back to their habits.
People who are smart and do ridiculous things on get up to remain unpredictable are annoying. This is where you either take a wild guess or work on your reaction chasing.
He's not.i never really understood the 40:60 matchup with bowser when not taking into account that bowser is vulnerable to all of ganondorf's smashes after the flame choke