Guide How to hatch a healthy Yoshi: A Yoshi guide

[yoshiiscool]

Well I think he has a point about practicing on FD. It's not like you are going to practice them in a big match so there is no harm in just turning on no time limit and canceling eggs on FD. No stock to lose and you get used to the FD edge rather then the corneria lip. Although it makes really no difference where you practice (except for stages like battlefield where you can't hold towards the stage or your double jump will get canceled by the bottom of the stage) I beleive that it might get you somehow used to aiming your eggs on FD. If you practice on FD you can see where your eggs are hitting and you will know how to aim them on FD, but if you practice on corneria and you go to FD for a match you might be surprised at the distances of the eggs and start to miss repeatedly which lets your opponent get close and before you know it you've been hit out of your double jump while trying to egg and you tumble to your doom.

 

[BETA]

Well I think he has a point about practicing on FD. It's not like you are going to practice them in a big match so there is no harm in just turning on no time limit and canceling eggs on FD.

I was thinking of saving the trouble of changing all of the options and just going into Training Mode. Does that work too?

 

[NJzFinest]

nice stuff, im just started using yoshi and ur guide really helps. i think i have to look more into da yoshi forums though

 

[Shiri]

By the way...

I forgot to say this earlier...please forgive me if this is already common knowledge.

I remember a couple months ago (my memory was jolted by the comment that the Hip Drop gets Yoshi a bigger ledge-grab range) on Corneria that I had a dilemma of never being able to grab onto the ship's fin in my first jump and not wanting to waste the second just in case it was cancelled by a well-placed smash. To make a long story short, it seems that my Egg Toss gets Yoshi a larger grab range as well--indeed, it is enough to have him grab the fin when used at the peak of the first jump. It could be the slight rising and falling of the ship, but it seems to work everytime. This raises a question for me, however.

How big is the part of the fin that one can grab? If it's about the same size as most other stages, then can ledge-cancelled eggs be performed under the ledge and still be successful? To my knowledge, they can only be performed slightly above the ledge's height.

By the way...I've discovered that, when coming back from an absurd distance and air dodging is the only way to grab the stage, air dodging up (unless most of Yoshi's body is above the edge) is futile. It seems that Yoshi's knees have to be at edge height in order for him to be able to grab the ledge once the air dodge is over. Bad vertical grab range, I suppose. However, if you airdodge up and back, it appears that Yoshi has quite a lenient horizontal ledge-grab range and will grab the ledge. To shorten this...

Even though air dodging up may give you greater height, air dodging up and back will yield a greater chance of success when almost directly touching the stage upon your return. I think I've just discovered a way for me to record myself, so if I can, I'll demonstrate this (unless, of course, everyone knows about it already). ^__^;

 

[BETA]

Shiri: I did a little testing, and you can grab the Great Fox wing on your first jump. Stand directly under the ledge facing the wing (obviously). Tilt the control stick backwards very, very slightly (at this pressure, you won't even do an Egg Roll), and jump. At the height of the jump, Yoshi will grab onto the ledge.

Also, test this out: Go by the jet and jump straight up repeatedly. You'll go slightly forwards somethimes, and slightly backwards sometimes. This affects wheter you can grab the ledge on your first jump or not (sorry if this is well-known ^_^

Keep in mind that the ledge on Corneria is wedge shaped, and most others are a 90 degree angle. I think this affects the edge cancelling. At Final Destination, the lowest point you can edge cancel is at Yoshi's cheeks/mouth. I don't think you can actually do it below the ledge.

 

[Shiri]

I see. o_o Thanks for that.

 

[rmusgrave]

I did some frame testing today (finally borrowed an AR from my friend). Turns out the fastest you can edge egg is to release the edge on the 8th frame of grabbing it, then double jump for 11 frames and use the egg toss. Doing it this was leaves you vulnerable for 1 frame. I thought that was pretty neat, although unfortunately it's not 100% invulnerable.

I'll get up frame info for Egg poop and Egg roll soon.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

good stuff rmusgrave, do you have any vids of your yoshi? ive been thinking about picking yoshi up and occationally i play him but his different play style feels to ackward for me and watching fumi is like wtf. what yoshi vids do you recommend for learning some stuff (we all know fumi's at the top)?

 

[rmusgrave]

Some good ones to learn stuff from would probably include
- zeruo(link).vs.fumi(yoshi).1.WMV
- nago(sheik).vs.fumi(yoshi).2.WMV
- Smash Alex (Doc) vs Svampen (Yoshi) - PS.wmv
- S150-jackbowser-masashiyoshi.asf (It might be an asx, but it works either way)
- Pretty much any of Gabe's vids
- My vid against Captain Jack, and perhaps some of the old ones against Kupo.

Generally, Fumi's style is a very offensive style, and he is very good at quickly getting advantageous spacing. My style is more defensive, and I try to achieve the spacing I like through evasive maneouvres and such. It's up to you to choose your own style, as long as you remember the golden rule of being careful when double jumping cancelling.

 

[yoshimaster12]

Some good ones to learn stuff from would probably include
- zeruo(link).vs.fumi(yoshi).1.WMV
- nago(sheik).vs.fumi(yoshi).2.WMV
- Smash Alex (Doc) vs Svampen (Yoshi) - PS.wmv
- S150-jackbowser-masashiyoshi.asf (It might be an asx, but it works either way)
- Pretty much any of Gabe's vids
- My vid against Captain Jack, and perhaps some of the old ones against Kupo.

Hey rmusgrave thanks for the great guide, ive realy improved with Yoshi. By the way where can i find any of these vids.

 

[Svampen]

on the hub probably >_>


Edit: Great guide, can't wait to start working on my vid ^^

 

[Blunted_object10]

Sweet Guide BoD!

I always wondered about how u do some of the stuff that u do with yoshi...

 

[shingles]

I have to say, great job on this FAQ! :D Such a great job, that I actually registered here so I could reply to this thread... usually I only lurk on places like this. XD

One thing I'd like to add to your guide, though, is that Yoshi's B + Smash can be used for a quick dodge and retaliation; at higher percentages, I've even started quite a few combos with this. The short hop you get from starting the move can help you dodge a lot of lower moves, such as Ness' down smash, Jigglypuff's forward and down smashes, and it even goes high enough to dodge Pikachu's Thunderjolt. It (of course) wouldn't work as well against moves that don't have much lag afterwards, so it isn't extremely helpful, and you'd have to be fairly good at reading opponents, but I thought I could add that to the short list of uses for the Egg Roll.

 

[GreenEyeS]

It's just too... Much for words...

Okok, I must admit, I was for a short time, a Fox player... Lucklily for me, I managed to put
that behind me and try my hands at a character who I was avoding, simply because I had this strange notion that Fox was better... But since I actually tried Yoshi, I soon realised how much more fun and how much more in-depth (at least to me) he was.

Thanks again rmus... I shall never look even consider moving my selection cursor over Fox again! Yyyyyyyoooooossssshhhhiii!!!!!

 

[YOSHIDO]

Anyone got some suggestions for facin a Marth ive never faced one before

 

[YOSHIDO]

Ive never faced a marth before well a good one anyway. An one is coming over tomorow. The only things i know is that he is kinda light. And has a weak horzantal comback. So i can get easy kills from down a. ANd that i should be able to abuse some eggs on him

 

[SonicZeroX]

It's not very important, but you did not include that Side B's power can be increased by holding B. Or at least that what it says on his trophy.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

i never knew that, does the charging of the move have any significant knockback or damage?

 

[rmusgrave]

Chucked in a half-***** attempt at the character specific section. Please, if there's anything you need added, don't hesitate to ask. The whole section involves situation based stuff, so if I miss a situation you're having trouble with, ask away and I'll add if I can.

I'll finish it one of these days =)

 

[BETA]

Yeah, I just got a question. Is there a reason you don't have platform cancelling edges as a recovery? Is there something wrong with doing it to recover from double jumps instead of wavedashing to the level?

 

[rmusgrave]

No, not really, it would actually have less lag than the wavedash. I've just never used it, and can't really see any uses for it. *Shrug*

 

[BETA]

You put that Egg Dropping thing in there "just for completeness" though...

Other than having less lag time than the Wavedash, I see no use for it either, other than juking people who think you're going to Wavedash. More of an offensive thing than a defensive thing, since you can attack sooner than if you'd Wavedashed.

i never knew that, does the charging of the move have any significant knockback or damage?

Myself, I've tried that and haven't noticed a difference.

 

[iAmMarth]

This may be a bit off topic, but has anyone done Yoshi's eggshell fiesta? Just keep tapping R, it's fun.

 

[rmusgrave]

Lol, ok, I see your point. I should change that anyway, because I've actually started using Egg Dropping, albeit sparingly.

I'll add it now.

Oh, and with the egg roll, I haven't noticed a damage or knockback difference myself, but holding B does make the egg a brighter white and seem to roll slightly faster. I'll look into it at some point, especially with the AR, see if there's a difference at all.

 

[Straight]

"egg dropping" wtf? What is this? I hope its just a different term to something I already knew. Please explain Bringer.

 

[rmusgrave]

It's in the guide Gabe -_-

It's when you use the first frame of your double jump and throw an egg, making you fall quickly and eggthrow. You can also move left or right with this, if your fingers are quick enough

 

[Straight]

Ya I didnt catch it in the guide must have missed it. Heh i didnt know it had a term though, Thanks a lot

 

[D1]

*cough* since today I'm extremely sick and bored I was thinkin to myself how the hell could I rekindle my love for Smash? pressing down B(the shine) to kill all the time w/ Fox at low %'s gets rather boring after a couple months...

...after watchin some Svampen, Fumi, Bringer, and other random Yoshi vids I was amazed to see the sh** this dude could do in the right hands. So yeah I'm pickin up Yoshi seriously now and the Pink one's MINE!!!

Back off everybody ^_^!!!!

To get back on topic this was a really informative guide and I can't wait to see your update on the Samus section of the guide. To me my hardest Yoshi matchups are Peach, Samus, Marth, and sometimes Shiek. Beatin Peach is gettin easier thanks to some of your tips, thanks again Bringer!!!

^.^ YOSHI ROCKS! He's so **** good that he doesn't even NEED a third Jump!!! XD

 

[aho43]

*cough* since today I'm extremely sick and bored I was thinkin to myself how the hell could I rekindle my love for Smash? pressing down B(the shine) to kill all the time w/ Fox at low %'s gets rather boring after a couple months...

...after watchin some Svampen, Fumi, Bringer, and other random Yoshi vids I was amazed to see the sh** this dude could do in the right hands. So yeah I'm pickin up Yoshi seriously now and the Pink one's MINE!!!

Back off everybody ^_^!!!!

To get back on topic this was a really informative guide and I can't wait to see your update on the Samus section of the guide. To me my hardest Yoshi matchups are Peach, Samus, Marth, and sometimes Shiek. Beatin Peach is gettin easier thanks to some of your tips, thanks again Bringer!!!

^.^ YOSHI ROCKS! He's so **** good that he doesn't even NEED a third Jump!!! XD

Pink is mine cooter, always has been.

 

[YoShI Da BoMb]

i watched a combo video called nerf yoshi it seemed moop used pink yoshi most of the time it wasnt the best vid but there aint much to choose from for combo vids any way im just saying ive seen the pink one used alot i perfer yellow but the turqoius as apealing aswell

 

[Thomas Tipman]

Pink is mine cooter, always has been.

sorry but ive been having dibs on "flesh" yoshi for a good while.

 

[BETA]

Got back from my first tourney, PAWS1 (wish I could've dittoed your Yoshi TT, since I need to learn off of another Yoshi player) and did decent. Nothing spectacular.

But I had really tough troubles against Sheik and... Marth. I'll never understand why they say Yoshi counters Marth, seeing as how he does about the same damage as Yoshi, outspeeds him, outranges him, and outprioritizes him. Bringer's fsmash strategy is all I get. Marth can easily knock Yoshi out of his double jump with an fsmash, so I couldn't get back onto the stage easily at all unless I airdodged, leaving me open to other attacks.

As for Sheik, the ever annoying downthrow chaining... and I kept getting knocked out of the double jump by fair.

Most other characters, I did decent against, for Yoshi, but can anyone give me tips as to how to get through this stuff?

 

[Thomas Tipman]

well im not a hardcore yoshi player hes just one of my chars i like messing around with. the ditto would have probably been a disapointment. there was a dude at paws named acid on the boards he has a friend who has a pretyy decent yoshi you should have looked for him in the tourney.

 

[BETA]

I don't care if it would've been a disappointment... I have yet to face anyone else who plays Yoshi. You have to admit, FL is nearly completely dead to low and bottom tier players.

 

[rmusgrave]

Where were you getting knocked out of your Double Jump by Marth's f-smash? Was it as you were recovering or during normal DJC attempts?

During recovery, you have a couple of options (I just realised I didn't put in a section on avoiding edgeguard >_>). You can double jump up to the edge from below, and midair dodge on a diagonal from just below the edge, so that you end up poised just above the ground in the middle of your dodge. It's not that hard to do, especially on levels like FD or DL64, and it doesn't really leave you open for anything else because you're just about to hit the ground.

Another option you can use, especially if you're good with edge eggs, is to double jump up to the edge from below and throw an egg, timing it so you sweetspot the edge. If you do this correctly, the egg will stop Marth's forward smash, and you'll grab the edge, allowing you to do any of Yoshi's edge options to get back on from there.

I really don't have much advice against Sheik. Generally, your best (and only) hope is to avoid getting grabbed.. ever. Shield grabbing is nasty, and the only advice I can give you is to not use b-air on her shield because it won't stun enough for you to land, l-cancel and stop the grab with a quick neutral A or f-tilt or something. If she does shield a b-air, do your best to pass through her, or do the up-air in the same short hop thing (which I can't do myself). If you can't pass through her, you can do your best to fast fall so that the last hit will hit the shield just before you land, then l-cancel and roll away or sidestep ASAP. If this works a couple of times, the Sheik player will adapt, and you'll need to do mindgames involving her shield.

Um, I can't think of anything else useful. Tell me if any of that doesn't cover something you need to know and I'll see what I can add.

 

[BETA]

That should do it. I was getting knocked out during recovery. Getting knocked out of it during a DJC attempt isn't that big of a deal. I was also getting owned by fair spams from Marth.

 

[YOSHIDO]

Got back from my first tourney, PAWS1 (wish I could've dittoed your Yoshi TT, since I need to learn off of another Yoshi player) and did decent. Nothing spectacular.

But I had really tough troubles against Sheik and... Marth. I'll never understand why they say Yoshi counters Marth, seeing as how he does about the same damage as Yoshi, outspeeds him, outranges him, and outprioritizes him. Bringer's fsmash strategy is all I get. Marth can easily knock Yoshi out of his double jump with an fsmash, so I couldn't get back onto the stage easily at all unless I airdodged, leaving me open to other attacks.

As for Sheik, the ever annoying downthrow chaining... and I kept getting knocked out of the double jump by fair.

Most other characters, I did decent against, for Yoshi, but can anyone give me tips as to how to get through this stuff?

Well i found to stop sheik Down Tilt. This move shuts down her grab game almost completly. Because ur ducking she cant grab you. And because it has a set knockback she gets punished for it. As for marth all i can say is stay close. Oh and like bringer said try and not use ur second jump on the recovery to early. Because when somone can jump over you its a knockout.

 

[BETA]

I tested it out yesterday in Training Mode. Sheik can still grab you while you're crouching, as well as hit you with both of her fsmash attacks because of crouch cancelling.

 

[rmusgrave]

If you CC the first hit of the f-smash succesfully, you can actually d-smash before you're hit by the second one.

And about crouching under Sheik's grab... did you test the running grab and standing grab? I believe they have different heights.

I realised at my last tournament that not only do you need to know when to CC, but you also need to learn to use mindgames to make the CC actually effective against certain characters, especially Sheik.

Also, I'm thinking that the only way to improve Yoshi's metagame beyond this point is to increase the use of DJCing through attacks and powershield jumping. Yoshi desperately needs something to make him fare better against the top tiers, and these don't seem to be too far of a stretch of imagination for someone to perfect them. Hopefully I'll be using DSH aerials and DJC retaliation/combo starters in Sweden. ^_^

 

[YOSHIDO]

I tested it out yesterday in Training Mode. Sheik can still grab you while you're crouching, as well as hit you with both of her fsmash attacks because of crouch cancelling.

When i said crouching u have to be doin the d tilt