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[§witch]

Is the range on Falco's Usmash good? If it isn't I'm pretty sure you won't be getting the OoS Usmash, Ftilt, Bair and Fair says hi. You Falcos say it yourself it's hard to get a kill off. It looks easier on paper than in the real thing Switch.

The range on it is as good as fox's. Fox has horrible range nothing nothing safe on block.

We aren't talking about every hit fox lands on falco shield, this is more of a fox messes up and hits falco's shield with an aerial. Fox's fsmash obviously can't be hit with a usmash OoS, which is why I punish that with an IAP (immediate aerial phantasm.) Same with all of fox's smashes and his bair.

I can land a usmash ooS on all of fox's aerials, not including his bair. Same with the back of utilt.

If fox hits me with jab, ftilt, dtilt, or the front of utilt, I'm going to grab him

It's no easy task landing KOs with falco consistently, but on fox, it's not overly difficult.

Actually I don´t understand the people who say falco is a hard matchup,
It´s like my favourite matchup... i mean one dair, 3 uptilts and a usmash and he´s @ 50%,

You wanna know what's more fun? 60+% from one grab.

then get him in the air, follow on with a fair and falco is @ ca. 70 % ....

After the CG and gatling combo, falco can dair fox, fall jabjabjabjabjab, grab, dthrow, and DACUS for the KO, awesome isn't it?

shining his upB is really good...

If you can get falco in a position where he's using firebird that is.

 

[Conviction]

That one combo you metioned will never happen on a person who can actually DI.

 

[crifer]

The range on it is as good as fox's. Fox has horrible range nothing nothing safe on block.

After the CG and gatling combo, falco can dair fox, fall jabjabjabjabjab, grab, dthrow, and DACUS for the KO, awesome isn't it?


If you can get falco in a position where he's using firebird that is.

That is possible, but much harder to hit with, than two fairs and a move of your choice to be in kill %
I will not be as ignorant to say that this will not happen, but u have to admit that it´s not easy against a decent fox who knows where the L or R button is.

Every once in a while falco has to use firebird...
Don´t understand me wrong I like Falco, and I know what he is capable of in the right hands,
but I have to say it´s realy even, and the most important thing...
This matchup is FUN!

 

[SnowballBob33]

Switch, are u serious, that's something you either do online, to a cpu, or some1 who has a mental illness. Fox really isnt bad vs falco. You can only camp for so long until you end up taking more dmg from reflections than hitting. The thing that makes it the worst is if u get cg'd because it auto 60. Other than that, there is no real advantage.

 

[A6M Zero]

Fox- 3 utilts to upsmash is just over 50%.

Falco- Chaingrab is roughly 60%.

Falco- Can PRESSURE Fox with lasers and control most of the match.

Fox- Can't be CAMPED by Falco's lasers.

Fox- Better recovery, can't be spiked out of chaingrab. Can edgeguard Falco moderately easily.

Falco/Fox- Both have decent kill moves, but Fox's upsmash is better overall than Falco's fsmash, and at higher percentages you should never be getting hit by Falco's upsmash, and the way Fox plays shouldn't leave him vulnerable to bairs. Fox's dsmash can kill Falco all by itself, and his fsmash leaves Falco to recover against an decent edgeguard chance.


Worse than 55:45?

 

[M@v]

Fox- 3 utilts to upsmash is just over 50%.

Falco- Chaingrab is roughly 60%.

Falco- Can PRESSURE Fox with lasers and control most of the match.

Fox- Can't be CAMPED by Falco's lasers.

Fox- Better recovery, can't be spiked out of chaingrab. Can edgeguard Falco moderately easily.

Falco/Fox- Both have decent kill moves, but Fox's upsmash is better overall than Falco's fsmash, and at higher percentages you should never be getting hit by Falco's upsmash, and the way Fox plays shouldn't leave him vulnerable to bairs. Fox's dsmash can kill Falco all by itself, and his fsmash leaves Falco to recover against an decent edgeguard chance.


Worse than 55:45?

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. The CG itself is 45%, but with gattling combo that makes it 60%. Falco cant camp fox; its that simple. All you have to do as fox is turtle in your shine, and he will be forced to approach.

 

[§witch]

Wow, you guys are ********, utilt, utilt, utilt, usmash, fair is as viable as what I said, which was my point.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. The CG itself is 45%, but with gattling combo that makes it 60%. Falco cant camp fox; its that simple. All you have to do as fox is turtle in your shine, and he will be forced to approach.

You sitting in your shine all day does nothing to force falco to approach. Falco is fine to just sit there all day, the main thing is, fox cannot force falco to approach which is not a good position for fox to be in.

Fox has nothing safe on block, and all of his approaches are easily telegraphed. Since he cannot force falco to approach, and I guess falco cannot force him to approach it's a stalemate, but fox is still in a worse position.

Fox- 3 utilts to upsmash is just over 50%.

Except vs someone who can DI.

Falco- Chaingrab is roughly 60%.

Falco- Can PRESSURE Fox with lasers and control most of the match.

Fox- Can't be CAMPED by Falco's lasers.

He can't be camped, but fox has only one option to get around it, which leaves him horribly open and vulnerable.

Fox- Better recovery, can't be spiked out of chaingrab. Can edgeguard Falco moderately easily.

Are you positive fox can never be chain spiked? I doubt that highly. I'm pretty sure we can chainspike fox, but I digress; fox cannot edgeguard falco moderately well. He can edgeguard firebird moderately well. It's very difficult to get falco recovering with firebird, and fox isn't one of the few able to force firebird even moderately well. You'd need a projectile that flinches to achieve that.

Falco/Fox- Both have decent kill moves, but Fox's upsmash is better overall than Falco's fsmash, and at higher percentages you should never be getting hit by Falco's upsmash, and the way Fox plays shouldn't leave him vulnerable to bairs. Fox's dsmash can kill Falco all by itself, and his fsmash leaves Falco to recover against an decent edgeguard chance.

Why should falco get hit by fox's usmash anymore than falco can hit fox? Same speed, same range, though fox does have a slide on his. That is counteracted by falco's phenomenal DACUS mind you. Fox's dsmash is great, but fox's fsmash should not be considered a good KO'er, it's horribly hard to land. Fox beats falco in KO'ing and vertical recovery. Falco wins in most other stats.

Worse than 55:45?

Yes.

 

[-Mars-]

Switch I disagree.....full hop rising nair IS safe on block.

 

[pure_awesome]

I would just like to point out that if Fox does turtle in his Shine, Falco's IAP starts up crazy fast and will hit Fox from halfway across the stage before he can drop his Shine and do anything.

From there we can just IAP away to reset spacing while you're still in hitstun. So Falco CAN force Fox to approach.

 

[KheldarVII]

Switch I disagree.....full hop rising nair IS safe on block.

It's the safest thing Fox can ever do.

 

[crifer]

Are you positive fox can never be chain spiked? I doubt that highly. I'm pretty sure we can chainspike fox, .

What? U say you can cg to spike fox, but a post later you are not sure?

we have dair to upsmash as combo, and even the best player will get hit once in a while @ 100% by dair....
Dair offstage CAN stop falco´s sideB and can combo into shine= death

 

[NJzFinest]

Falco camps Fox.

Falco can either shield/shine back reflected lasers. Also forward B goes through Fox's shine. I mean, you guys are aware that laser lag is canceled, right?

Fox can't move when he shines and when he decides to approach, he'll have to do so against a wall of lasers.

Haven't you guys at least ever play Fox vs Falco in Melee?

*more to come after class, this is it for now*

 

[Conviction]

Falco camps Fox.

Falco can either shield/shine back reflected lasers. Also forward B goes through Fox's shine. I mean, you guys are aware that laser lag is canceled, right?

Fox can't move when he shines and when he decides to approach, he'll have to do so against a wall of lasers.

Haven't you guys at least ever play Fox vs Falco in Melee?

*more to come after class, this is it for now*

Well Mister-KNOW-IT-ALL, Did you know like in melee fox can move out his shine. When A projectile hits I MEAN as soon as it hits you can DODGE ROLL or JUMP. Ever jumped out of a shine in melee?

 

[§witch]

Well Mister-KNOW-IT-ALL, Did you know like in melee fox can move out his shine. When A projectile hits I MEAN as soon as it hits you can DODGE ROLL or JUMP. Ever jumped out of a shine in melee?

Don't address the pertinent parts of the posts, that's cool.

No, he clearly never jumped out of his shine in melee, who did that?

Yes you can jump out of your shine, dodge out of your sine, but you sitting in your shine doesn't mean the falco has to be lasering, I can just sand there and taunt for all it matters. The only part that matters is: "Fox cannot force falco to approach."

You keep bringing up shine, but the point is the fox's shine doesn't force falco to approach.

Switch I disagree.....full hop rising nair IS safe on block.

Aye, I'll give you that, it's not an overly effective thing to spam as approach though.

And it is only one thing he has that's safe.

 

[Conviction]

Well thing is actually you will have to approach or you will get called for excessive stalling.

And I'm pretty sure we have Foxfire safe off shield too.
Since you can footstool some one shielding. Jump>footstool the person shielding then use Foxfire to cancel momentum.....it pressure the shield alot.....I just thought of that XD. I'll be testing that soon now.

P.S. Speaking of Testing we need a type of testing thread. We all talk about fox has potential but we really never try to tap into it. Unless some one is holdig back on us >.> (Kheldar I still want to know that New Fox AT)

 

[§witch]

Well thing is actually you will have to approach or you will get called for excessive stalling.

And I'm pretty sure we have Foxfire safe off shield too.
Since you can footstool some one shielding. Jump>footstool the person shielding then use Foxfire to cancel momentum.....it pressure the shield alot.....I just thought of that XD. I'll be testing that soon now.

P.S. Speaking of Testing we need a type of testing thread. We all talk about fox has potential but we really never try to tap into it. Unless some one is holdig back on us >.> (Kheldar I still want to know that New Fox AT)

Lol, you used 'firefox' and 'safe' in the same sentence.

And no, the falco can't get called for excessive stalling in this case, I'm sorry.

 

[Conviction]

Ok standing doing nothing while just watching a Fox sit in reflector waitin for your lazers is called stalling.

And yes safe......I done what I metioned above to you before.

 

[§witch]

It's not stalling. The fox is stalling just as much as the falco is.

We've never played have we? Regardless, firefox is not safe.

 

[Conviction]

It's not stalling. The fox is stalling just as much as the falco is.

We've never played have we? Regardless, firefox is not safe.

Have you lost your whole memory? The FoxForce ring a bell?

 

[NJzFinest]

Well Mister-KNOW-IT-ALL, Did you know like in melee fox can move out his shine. When A projectile hits I MEAN as soon as it hits you can DODGE ROLL or JUMP. Ever jumped out of a shine in melee?

This post barely makes sense, but I think you're helping my argument since Brawl Fox can't do any of that.

And yes, I do know a thing or two about the physics of the shine:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=67333

Also xIblisx, your posts are very troublesome to read, no offense. On top of that, the fact you think being gay with lasers is stalling and firefox is safe is convincing me to not even bother reading whatever else you have to say. I know GA is very very lacking in the smash scene (I have good connections with the best players there), .... but come on man...

Other stuff:

It's been noted that Fox builds damage with 3x uptilts to upsmash. I really don't know what kinda Falcos of you guys have been playing... Then again, I do recall that most of the people in this forum dooo play online, I guess that makes sense then.

Anyways, the point is Falco definitely out does Fox in racking damage, landing a grab with Falco is easier to land then uptilts with Fox (not to mention that Falco simply has the spam and range/priority advantage).

Um, Fox does definitely shine (you get it?) is in killing though. Seriously, that upsmash is silly. Unfortunately for Fox, he's a light character anyways.

 

[KheldarVII]

Fox can jump out of his shine after being struck.

Fox doesn't need to approach, but Falco doesn't have to either.

Fox can shoot lasers back and defend against Falco's since Fox's lasers are faster.

Fox doesn't have to approach the whole way either.

Fox can DI out of Falco's chainspike.

Perfect shields > all.




Falco is nothing special. I don't mean he's easy however.

 

[NJzFinest]

Fox can jump out of his shine after being struck.

Yeah... after dealing with the stun from reflecting... heh

Fox can shoot lasers back and defend against Falco's since Fox's lasers are faster.

Fox can't shoot lasers back when actual spam with knockback is being thrown back at him.

Fox doesn't have to approach the whole way either.

And when he want's to, he'll struggle to do so. Now, if Fox decides to not approach, what does he have going for him? He can't shoot back when being shot at and we've already covered simply shining.

Fox can DI out of Falco's chainspike.

Apparently the free damage it gives is irrelevant to you.

Perfect shields > all.

All what, all moves? I guess so. It's a good thing every character in this game can perfect shield.... haha.

Falco is nothing special.

Correct, having an answer to basically anything Fox has is definitely lame.

 

[KheldarVII]

I thought it was being argued Fox couldn't escape the spike, he can. And what exactly is the problem with Fox turtling with his reflector? Did Falco gain the ability to teleport this week?

 

[Zhamy]

Yeah... after dealing with the stun from reflecting... heh

No, 1-3 frames after being hit by a projectile, you can roll or jump out.

Fox can't shoot lasers back when actual spam with knockback is being thrown back at him.

I don't understand why not. I've done it many times, as have the rest of the boards, I'm sure.

Apparently the free damage it gives is irrelevant to you

Not what he was talking about. The chainspike can indeed be avoided.

Correct, having an answer to basically anything Fox has is definitely lame

If you say. I won't bother arguing it.

 

[NJzFinest]

I thought it was being argued Fox couldn't escape the spike, he can.

I thought did it a lot of damage regardless, it does.

And what exactly is the problem with Fox turtling with his reflector? Did Falco gain the ability to teleport this week?

I really don't understand you guys, are you not reading my posts O_o ? Isn't not being able to move a problem? Isn't the fact Falco still as an answer to shine a problem?
Why isn't Fox able to move? What answers do Falco have? All this and more on the next episode of "****ING READ MY POSTS".

No, 1-3 frames after being hit by a projectile, you can roll or jump out.

I was talking about how he has to deal with the stun, as in, deal with the act of being hit dude. Since lasers cancel, Falco can already be moving before the lasers even hit Fox.

I don't understand why not. I've done it many times, as have the rest of the boards, I'm sure.

Here, try this (doesn't matter if it's Brawl or Melee). Pick Fox and have your friend pick Falco. Go to FD. When the match starts, both of you spam B.

........ tell me what happens.

NAW, I'll save you the trouble Falco will win the laser battle because his lasers actually have knockback, as in, they will stop Fox from what he is doing. Fox's have 0 knockback, so they still let Falco attack. Sure, they rack up damage, but since Falco is shooting back with moves with recoil, you won't be able to win the laser war.

I can't believe I had to explain that...

Not what he was talking about. The chainspike can indeed be avoided.

Yet it still does a great amount of damage, that was my point.

 

[Conviction]

Yea so I was right NJ feel stupid now don't you? Look at this.....
Jumping out of Shine is 1 frame when being hit with a projectile so............................
Shine your lasers, Sh out of shine, SHDL, then go back to shine.

And you don't win the Shine War your kickoff doesn't protect you at all times.....so who camps who?

EDIT: I'm done arguing with you because YOU ARE NOT READING OUR POST and looking at it from FOX'S SIDE.

Understand that ^

 

[NJzFinest]

Understand that ^

I seriously can't.

Inform me when you pass highschool english and I will be more then willing to have a decently intelligent discussion with you.

 

[Conviction]

I seriously can't.

Inform me when you pass highschool english and I will be more then willing to have a decently intelligent discussion with you.

Sorry for english not being my first langauge. Mattaku no bakana.

EDIT: If this match-up is really that bad to you why don't you just go back to all the other Falcos and convice them.

 

[NJzFinest]

Lol, same here. Cependant, j'ai arrêté "johning".

 

[§witch]

Lol, same here. Cependant, j'ai arrêté "johning".

Tu parles français? C'est bon ça.

I bet if we got the opinions of the entire falco board, the majority would agree with us. But whatever, you guys can just keep thinking you can camp falco.

 

[Conviction]

Ok let's move on this Falco vs. Fox wasn't meant for this thread.... Not to blow you off NJ I'm serouisly (Not kidding) having fun agruing with you. But I think this thread might get closed fo being off-topic. NJ maybe we could finish this in a different thread that actually is meant for it okay?

EDIT: Was this started off a chaingrabbing question? XD

 

[Zhamy]

Here, try this (doesn't matter if it's Brawl or Melee). Pick Fox and have your friend pick Falco. Go to FD. When the match starts, both of you spam B.

Right, that's how people camp and spam in real matches.

Yet it still does a great amount of damage, that was my point

Which wasn't what was originally being commented on - the spike.

I'm not saying that Fox can camp Falco, but approaching is no easy task for either of them. Not to mention that lasers aren't the entire matchup, and this debate is silly because both have viable and varied answers to each other "camping." Yadda yadda ya, blah blah, I'm done here, but feel free to continue.

 

[NJzFinest]

Right, that's how people camp and spam in real matches.

You are aware I was merely allowing him to see the difference in to moves, right?

Right?

Which wasn't what was originally being commented on - the spike.

Just saying, sure, he won't be spiked gayed, but he'll get a ton of damage anyways.

I'm not saying that Fox can camp Falco, but approaching is no easy task for either of them.

Fox: OH ****, LASERS! *shines*
Falco: lawlz, come get me sonnn.

 

[SnowballBob33]

BACK ON TOPIC.... Whats the best way of getting past yoshi egg spam. I had to play pride b4 and i find it really hard. Maybe I was just being too impatient, but how should u play. Camp and try to shine eggs? rush and hit him b4 he throws? Basically, do you approach, or force him to? Also, off the edge when he recovers and they keep throwin eggs, how do u deal wit dat. If u sit there u probably will get daired, if u put up ur reflector they keep throwin eggs, and if u run away the eggs follow you.

 

[KheldarVII]

What the heck is the argument exactly? I seem to have been arguing the wrong one.

 

[A6M Zero]

Switch can't even camp me on WIFI, and he's telling us that Fox has nothing on Falco's lasers.


As a matter of fact, granted every advantage and the fact that projectiles and CG's **** on wifi by themselves, Switch can't even KILL me on wifi.

Also, note, I've never lost to a Falco player without SDing at least once.

 

[crifer]

I´ve never been cg to spiked by falco with fox.
And I never felt that this matchup is in favor for anyone

 

[pure_awesome]

So am I the only one who realizes that Fox jumping out of his Shine when the Laser hits... doesn't really do anything?

I mean, I'm still far away.

As long as Falco keeps at max IAP distance (which is easy), Fox is forced to approach. You want to shine, great, you'll get IAPed.

 

[NJzFinest]

Switch can't even camp me on WIFI, and he's telling us that Fox has nothing on Falco's lasers.


As a matter of fact, granted every advantage and the fact that projectiles and CG's **** on wifi by themselves, Switch can't even KILL me on wifi.

Also, note, I've never lost to a Falco player without SDing at least once.

You also never played good people offline
Also, I think timing lasers is harder then Dair to uptilt on wifi lol. There's basically 0 Falco players who do well online. Actually, Falco in general is pretty bad online. SK92 has like, no lag, so he's lucky.


And... pure awesome is the truth.

 

[Vlade]

I never play falco online.

There's no point bragging about wifi matches.