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Conviction

Human Nature
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So I made this thread so if people are having problem when facing a certain character or when you're put in this position by "X" character.

Make request, and Discuss.

I'll just start us off. Zhamy metioned "dead zones" I have the most experince with this against Marth. So when I'm near the edge I execpt them to start SH Double Fairing, then I then Illision away from them. I know after a while this will also become predictable to them.

So once this becomes predictable what should I do next?
 

Conviction

Human Nature
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You could try attacking him.
Ok I'll try but
Marth's Fair
Fair
Hit: 4-8
End: 34
Shield Stun: 10
~Shield Hit Lag: 5
ADVANTAGE: -25
ADVANTAGE (SHFF): -4
Tipper Shield Stun: 13
~Shield Hit Lag: 11
ADVANTAGE: -28
ADVANTAGE (SHFF): -8
SHFF Fair Lag: 8
SH Fair Fast Falled Lag: 3

Looks kinda hard to hit them even when they can double that in the air.

EDIT: Frame data from Marth Frame data.
 

KheldarVII

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Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were fighting a human, not a robot. Well in that case you should just jump off the ledge and hope he follows you. Oh, and maybe shinestalling will help.
 

Zhamy

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I'll just start us off. Zhamy metioned "dead zones" I have the most experince with this against Marth. So when I'm near the edge I execpt them to start SH Double Fairing, then I then Illision away from them. I know after a while this will also become predictable to them.
After the first Fair, sliding shield. If you time it correctly, you should be able to powershield the second Fair and reposition yourself.
 

Conviction

Human Nature
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Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were fighting a human, not a robot. Well in that case you should just jump off the ledge and hope he follows you. Oh, and maybe shinestalling will help.
Hey humans use frames too. I know a lot of marth's (humans) that SH Double fair. Anyways, that sounds useful... Would Shield OoS Jumping help too.

Anyone wanna request, we are about done with this marth thing unless some one wants to add.

EDIT: Thanks Zhamy that helps too. I guess the more options I know the more I can mix-up and not be predictable.

P.S. Happy Kheldar? I wasted my 500th post on your insult.
 

§witch

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Hey humans use frames too. I know a lot of marth's (humans) that SH Double fair. Anyways, that sounds useful... Would Shield OoS Jumping help too.

Anyone wanna request, we are about done with this marth thing unless some one wants to add.

EDIT: Thanks Zhamy that helps too. I guess the more options I know the more I can mix-up and not be predictable.
You don't need frames to SH double fair.
 

Chileno4Live

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how do you deal with Diddy's bananas? I get owned by them. And trying to shine them results in me nbeing grabbed >_< Any advice for how to stop those bananas? x.x
 

*Jose*

Smash Rookie
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umm thats a hard work for me tho but ive read this and ill do what this people said
ty every1
 

Chileno4Live

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Alright, i'll try that. I'll still end up getting grabbed i think. I got my very first tourney soon, or at least the organizer says he would make 1. I'm so excited. I've fought him online against His Snake, he's pure rapeness. He's the best Snake from The Netherlands his nick is istudying. Awesome person, he beated me, but the match was nice, tho there was a lil lag. He secondary'd Diddy, so thats why i am asking this question. He showed me Diddy's rapeness, and i want to be prepared for Diddy's. Mainly because i never fight a good 1. Any other ideas on how to evade to bananas, spot dodge sdoesn't work, i tried that lol.
 

Fenrir VII

Smash Master
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Just SH lagless Fair the bananas that are on the ground. It perfectlycovers your front while giving you his banana to use against him. Learn his glide toss patterns and shield usmash a lot.
 

Acex27

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Falcos Lazers are a problem for me. I think im being too predictable with my shine, but i still need to figure out how to outcamp him. What is the best distance to keep from falco close, mid or far range? For the match in general what is the best distance to keep, camping or close range?
 

Sukai

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turn around....
how do you deal with Diddy's bananas? I get owned by them. And trying to shine them results in me nbeing grabbed >_< Any advice for how to stop those bananas? x.x
Stay in Diddy's face. In order for him to do his combo, he needs running space. Try to grab a few bananas yourself, it can make for a fairly even match up. That being said you have to learn the wave throw, or glide tossing as it's better known.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDtdmdkzaro
Not only is this Diddy's secret to ownage, but it's a staple what you must always carry, especially if you play other character who produce their own items (Peach, Zero Suit Samus, Snake). Get it out of your head to stop the bananas, just go with the flow, jump over the bananas, shine stall a bit and come back at him.
Diddy will always be a tough fight if you're Fox, but keep it cool and you'll manage.

Falcos Lazers are a problem for me. I think im being too predictable with my shine, but i still need to figure out how to outcamp him. What is the best distance to keep from falco close, mid or far range? For the match in general what is the best distance to keep, camping or close range?
Eww, Falco.
Falco is "Marth" to Fox's "Roy", he pretty much out classes him in every field, except for up smash power and recovery distance. Falco likely counters Fox perfectly, and no distance is safe for you. Guard the lasers, and try to get a grab in, you're challenge is to keep Falco off his feet, although his air game is just as deadly as his ground game, Fox has a better chance with Falco (not you) in the air, at this point, you can shield whatever he throws at you, and try for a punish. Stay in his face and try some mindgames, long range won't you any, due to Falco's broken *** lasers. Like Diddy Kong, this is a wear n' tear fight, and at no point will this be easy, just try a defensive stance, and look for lag time, watch you're opponent's moves and go in when they are vulnerable.
 

Zhamy

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Falcos Lazers are a problem for me. I think im being too predictable with my shine, but i still need to figure out how to outcamp him. What is the best distance to keep from falco close, mid or far range? For the match in general what is the best distance to keep, camping or close range?
We discussed this matchup extensively with the Falco boards, and in general, Fox beats out Falco in nearly every area that isn't 1) lasers or 2) chaingrabs. (Check the Falco boards and the matchup discussion for more information.) Granted, the advantages aren't huge, but if you can use close pressure well, you should be fine. Far range and close range are good, but you don't really want to be stuck midrange.

That being said, do you know the Reflector "cancelling" trick? If a projectile hits your reflector, you can roll, jump, or do any manner of shenanigans from 1-3 frames after, meaning if he shoots a laser toward your reflector, you can outspace him with a jump or roll. Really, though, lasers just take patience and practice. Powershield them all if you can, since it's relatively easy in Brawl.
 

Zhamy

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Im having trouble with Marth

Hes air game is killing me badly
Can you be more specific?

Luigi's Nair is getting on my nerves.... help?
Don't get hit? It's a seriously annoying move, but if you're using Utilt chains, you should probably cut those a bit shorter, and in the air, just watch out, since it lasts FOREVER and is difficult to airdodge through.
 

Conviction

Human Nature
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Can you be more specific?



Don't get hit? It's a seriously annoying move, but if you're using Utilt chains, you should probably cut those a bit shorter, and in the air, just watch out, since it lasts FOREVER and is difficult to airdodge through.
Well thing is I'm actually not a fan of Dair>Utilt as I used to and don't U tilt as much. I think our Uair beats it (being the highest prioritize move Fox has) so should I SH Uair his Nairs?
 

Dxkid

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I mean just simple hes arial moves espcially when im in the air i try everything even airdodgeing
 

KheldarVII

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U-air beats everything.

And for Luigi, you can't use U-tilt or dash attack at lower percentages or that's gonna happen. Take advantage of his long slides and start whaling on his shield with some smashes. He's also pretty large so SHDL should help out. Just don't be your usual aerialist.
 

Conviction

Human Nature
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U-air beats everything.

And for Luigi, you can't use U-tilt or dash attack at lower percentages or that's gonna happen. Take advantage of his long slides and start whaling on his shield with some smashes. He's also pretty large so SHDL should help out. Just don't be your usual aerialist.
Our Uair beats everything?
 

Irsic

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Against Diddy you really have to 1-up your grab game, getting grabbed as Diddy really throws off his momentum, and allows you to take the banana's sitting on stage.

I also am beginning to firmly believe that Falco is practically a **** near even match-up for Fox. After finally learning how to not fall into his traps, either being his any kind of reflector combo, his stupidly fast jab, his ridiculous air priority, he falls just as easily into Fox's traps, and that Fox can kill Falco extremely easy.

I've also learned that my reflector is my best friend in this match-up. I don't care if you're 'not supposed' to use it offensively, it's never hurt me more than it's helped.
 

§witch

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We discussed this matchup extensively with the Falco boards, and in general, Fox beats out Falco in nearly every area that isn't 1) lasers or 2) chaingrabs. (Check the Falco boards and the matchup discussion for more information.) Granted, the advantages aren't huge, but if you can use close pressure well, you should be fine. Far range and close range are good, but you don't really want to be stuck midrange.
Falco beats fox in the air, and at close range. He has one of the best jabs in the whole game, fast, great range, he has great tilts too. And his grab. I wouldn't say fox beats faloc at everyone else, considering he doesn't win in many things imo.
 

Conviction

Human Nature
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Falco beats fox in the air, and at close range. He has one of the best jabs in the whole game, fast, great range, he has great tilts too. And his grab. I wouldn't say fox beats faloc at everyone else, considering he doesn't win in many things imo.
If what you say is true why is the match-up 55:45?
 

A6M Zero

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Rofl, anybody can beat Falco just by not getting hit by an fsmash or bair. Honestly, that's about as easily said as done. Watch for when Falco is going to approach (he can't camp you), and avoid it. Just trade damage with him and hit him with your kill move first.
 

§witch

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If what you say is true why is the match-up 55:45?
It most definitely shouldn't be.

Rofl, anybody can beat Falco just by not getting hit by an fsmash or bair. Honestly, that's about as easily said as done. Watch for when Falco is going to approach (he can't camp you), and avoid it. Just trade damage with him and hit him with your kill move first.
That gave me a good chuckle, why on earth can't falco camp fox? Falco can camp every character in the entire game.

Falco's usmash can kill fox at 110%, which isn't hard to get OoS on a character with bad range and absolutely nothing safe on block.
 

Conviction

Human Nature
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It most definitely shouldn't be.


You're the only Falco that thinks that. Maybe you should review the whole entire discussion.

That gave me a good chuckle, why on earth can't falco camp fox? Falco can camp every character in the entire game.

Shine says hi.

Falco's usmash can kill fox at 110%, which isn't hard to get OoS on a character with bad range and absolutely nothing safe on block.
Is the range on Falco's Usmash good? If it isn't I'm pretty sure you won't be getting the OoS Usmash, Ftilt, Bair and Fair says hi. You Falcos say it yourself it's hard to get a kill off. It looks easier on paper than in the real thing Switch.
 

KheldarVII

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Is the range on Falco's Usmash good? If it isn't I'm pretty sure you won't be getting the OoS Usmash, Ftilt, Bair and Fair says hi. You Falcos say it yourself it's hard to get a kill off. It looks easier on paper than in the real thing Switch.
This post made me smile... laugh... and then go back to what I was doing.
 

Dxkid

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Marios cape an fireballs r pissing me off illusion wont work cuz of cape n fireballs stops some of Fox attacks D=<

any suggestions that can help me?
 

KheldarVII

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Fireballs don't get past a good jab, U-tilt or shine. Even N-air, don't let that N-air keep you down.
 

TechnoMonster

Smash Ace
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I'll just start us off. Zhamy metioned "dead zones" I have the most experince with this against Marth. So when I'm near the edge I execpt them to start SH Double Fairing, then I then Illision away from them. I know after a while this will also become predictable to them.

So once this becomes predictable what should I do next?
The trick here is just to avoid the whole situation; practice in it and find out if you have other options that can catch him by surprise.
 

crifer

Smash Lord
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Actually I don´t understand the people who say falco is a hard matchup,
It´s like my favourite matchup... i mean one dair, 3 uptilts and a usmash and he´s @ 50%,
then get him in the air, follow on with a fair and falco is @ ca. 70 % ....
shining his upB is really good...
IDK why but I like to **** falco´s a$s even though they think they have the advantage,
ans spacie against spacie just looks cool and is like link vs ganon, you know what I mean?


Good to know that uair beats luigis nair^^
 
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