'How to deal with specific enemy moves' Discussion - Discussion 42: IC Grab

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

MONKEY FACE LATCH!

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

As Christmas ebbs away, so do those Carol Singers and they're Only Specific Move...

Which means it's time to move on. I'm going to do Falco's lasers because they've been suggested so many times and we might as well do them since they're annoying. Please remember that there is a guide that has been written by Dark.Pch on how to deal with Falco's lasers...I'll stick that in. It was written quite a while ago so if anythings out of date, please tell me cause I don't get to fight Falco's that often

Discuss away!

 

[Dark.Pch]

When Falco spams lazers, forget about floating or getting a turnip. Power shield the ground level lazer and run out of your shield to him. And repeat till you get close enough to a point he has to stop shooting. That's how you deal with his lasers. You do this, his lazer camping is nothing and he will be forced to fight you.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

If you can strike stages kill FD. He'll be able to CP JJ but with floats it's not that bad. I like BF. They tend to go for a SHDL approach and you can get a shield grab with proper timing. The key is like Dark.Pch said.

However it should be noted that many Falcos use their lasers specifically to get you to approach since his approach game sucks. So when you get close make sure you're ready to counter attack his rush.

 

[SleeplessInKyoto]

For next discussion, can we do Metaknight's F-air please Thanks <3

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I need confirmation on this one

Falco's chaingrab technically includes his Blaster. From my knowledge, Falco cannot chaingrab Peach correct?

I'll be moving on soon unless there is anything else to add. Behaviour wise, what do most Falco's do to maximise their Blaster spam?

 

[Dark.Pch]

No, Falco can't chaingrab her, if he tries he will eat a Nair.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Onward we march!

By request, this time, the discussion is about MK's Fair. Don't forget this is MK we are talking about - getting around this move won't be easy

And if anyone come up with a better name/introduction to this move (you know, the description that no one reads), please do tell

Discuss away!

 

[Dark.Pch]

2 ways I have dealt with this

- Go to him and jump back to a Fair. Since his Fair comes out faster than yours, you evade his hit, and nail yours since your Fair has more range than his. If he is moving back, you would have to move in but let him execute his fair first. if you both do your fairs at the same time, he will hit you first. Bair can do it too but you need timing with that. I say let him execute his Fair, then get him with bair.

- jump with a turnip and try to snipe him on his head.

And this might be risky and all but it is one of meta's approaches, you you could jump and toad him in the face.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Happy New Year everyone

Surely there is more to add on this move? I'd rather not move on too fast because 1. I've been doing a lot of that recently and 2. MK is...well...MK

 

[Airgemini]

Well if no one else is going to add anything, can we do Ike's Jab combo next?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Surely there is more ways to get around his Fair... :/

Hopefully someone can come up with something else

Moving on, by request, it's Ike's Jab. Irritating but once you know how to deal with it, it's not as bad. Don't forget that Ike can cancel his jab into grabs and stuff...also, his jab can KO as well

Discuss away!

 

[SleeplessInKyoto]

Smash DI. You can DI behind him quite quickly and easily because these jabs are very slow, and dont much have hitstun. If thats too hard, smash the shield button really rapidly and hard because the gap between his 2nd and 3rd hit is large enough to shield.

Most of the time i run straight into this with my shield, then run and grab him before his sword flies down.

This is mostly a defensive move, and be careful because the sword *will* slash you out of your float.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Shielding between hits at high percents won't work from what I can remember
Don't forget Ike can cancel his jab and use something else so he doesn't use the 2nd/3rd hit

P.S Ike's jab comes out on frame 3. Peach's comes out on frame 2

 

[Airgemini]

This move is irritating.

Is it possible to SDI out of this move effectively?

How do you punish it?

 

[SleeplessInKyoto]

Yes, you can SDI out of it but you've got to be very quick. SDI diagonally towards Ike and you'll fly right past his first jab punch and end up right behind him. They get so scared :D

Punish it with turnips from far, but if you're close, then go for a grab or a D-smash.

Jab to Grab is also great

 

[://iStar]

I think you can counter after the second hit of his jab. o-o

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

In my experience Ike will jab or grab from up close and out of low lag aeirals. He's too bulky to do much else. SHaerials are easily shielded. So if you space with turnips he shouldn't do much. Don't let him scare you into your shield too much. Just slap him up close. I think Dsmash might outrange it. Fsmash...doesn't?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I've got a fairly good idea of what to write up...unfortunetly, I've run out of ideas of what move to do next. Can anyone think of anything? I was thinking of doing Snake's grenades/mortar slide or Ice Climber's blizzard

 

[Kinzer]

How about Ness' PK Fire? I know Sonic has the Spring to escape any instant follow-ups Ness might have from PK Fire, but I'm not so sure Peach the same luxury with her Parasol.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

How about Lugi's Fsmash? Or DownB approach?

 

[Airgemini]

Link's projectiles.

 

[Razmakazi]

just do nades. it'll generally be more useful to discuss.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Ummm.. Yeah. Nades.

 

[Kataefi]

omg you've gone through 33 moves already? I need to step it up! I've only done about 12!

 

[Airgemini]

But Rick does like three a week lol.

 

[L33T.Peach]

With ikes jab, I can easily get confused. suprisingly most ikes i play dont use jab cancels and such.

I wait it out, and either DI out of it, or if they dont continue the jab, just shield/get hit. the jab doesnt send peach far, and you can send MASIVE pressure against ike while approaching the stage. i use my jump, and my float at different times while apporaching stage.Bair and Dair will knock him away.

If you time it right, hwen he Uair, you can jump , and fast fall and you have a free Dair/Nair/Bair.

also, when your at the tip of the screen where you dont have a bubble showing where you are, side B over, and it will get him confused. great for Bair approaches.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Sorry I've been quite busy recently so I haven't updated this in a while

Because I've run out of my own ideas AGAIN, I'll just use some of the suggestions. Up next, is Ness' Pk Fire. I can guarantee that if you have ever fight a good Ness and you don't know how to deal with this and you happen to get stuck in one of these, you'll curse yourself as he sends you flying with his stupid B Throw

Discuss away!

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I keep forgetting which DI is used on multiple hitting moves, Smash or tap. But anyway, use that and I think you should DI up and during Ness' apporach, you try to score a Dair or C-jump Bair him as he comes underneath.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Pk Fire does last for quite a while...I'm not sure if that would work because you could easily fall back in it

And I think it's Smash DI for multi hit moves...I think

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Eh maybe, I'm not entirely sure myself. Though Ness does not always come in on a grab approach. As a Ness player myself as well, I hardly run in to grab, and instead I run in into a Usmash just because it starts the enemy into a juggle, so I think Peach players just need to be aware it's not always a grab. Especially against floaty and light characters, by the percentage Ness would need to go into a running grab Bthrow kill, I think PK Fire would actually knock Peach off the pillar after a couple of hits, and Peach would recover by the time Ness runs in.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Hmm hmm...I see. I'll be sure to put that in (most of my cases vs Ness were on laggy Wi Fi and they'd always try and go in for a grab D: ruddy Back Throw...why couldn't Peach's F Throw be as strong hmm? )

 

[Airgemini]

Her Fthrow used to be that strong in the demos.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

*cough*

 

[deepseadiva]

PK Fire is so lame against Peach.

So very, very lame.

Using it at low percents I believe is best - as Ness can usually string some fairs, or even another Fire after the first. Normally.

Peach is light, SDI away ASAP and you can usually avoid the predictable fair or whatnot.

At high percents, it's nothing.

The only thing I'd watch out for would be when recovering. If you get caught in an aerial Fire, be warned of the horrible CAZ COMBOOOOOO.

Nessi who like this move get punished by dair. Always. It's laggy, dair air his potato face.

This move really shouldn't be a problem for Peach.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Bump I guess

Next up, we have Snake and his grenades. They're nasty and a pain but you can use them to your advantage. Unfortunetly, every now and then when I'm fighting Snake and his grenades I sometimes get Pokémon fever and attempt to catch 'em all

Sorry that was terrible...

Discuss away!

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I HATE GRENADES! They ALWAYS seem to hit me no matter what. I need help on this myself =(

 

[Razmakazi]

i just glide toss towards the guy if he's camping since the turnips will knock the nade away from you so you can just kinda zone him and bait a mortar slide or the dude will probably be shielding so his own nade doesn't hit him. at any rate u can kinda just stay out of nade range w/ being pinned to the edge of the stage. I'd also just throw a nade back at dude if I visibly see him toss 2 of them b/c I don't wanna catch one only for it to be stripped from my hand w/ a shield dropped nade (**** glitches ;x ). as for platform camping idk, that one gets me...maybe z catch it and toss it away or towards snake but yea platform camping is tough for me. ;-/

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

The Turnip itself won't knock the grenade away - most likely, it will be Peach the grenade hits that causes it to bounce off Peach and thus causing it to stop

Unfortunetly, by Glide Tossing towards him, you put yourself in the dilemma of the grenade being in the air but near to the ground. You're close enough to try and hit Snake but the grenade can go off and knock you out of say, your Float

I obliterate Snake's who constantly use Grenades ---> Roll drop out the way with Sonic but with Peach, it's much harder

An important thing to remember is that when Snake has pulled out the grenade, he is very limited to what he can do. He's either going to have to throw it which is fairly laggy or he's going to have to put up his sheild/spotdodge/roll, all of which are fairly punishable. Or he might decide to cook the grenade and throw it but if you're close by, throwing it won't be the best option as he might get caught in the blast of the grenade as well

Watch for how long the grenade has been out for. When Snake pulls out the pin, they will go off in about 3 seconds. If you're going to Z catch it, your best bet is to only catch the ones the have ALREADY hit you so it doesn't mess up your chances of the grenade bouncing away from you (and ultimately exploding in your face). Catching with aerials is risky as you can set the grenade off early if you hit it. Toading grenades is very very unreliable as the counter can be set off when the thrown grenade hits you and timing Toad with the explosion is very dodgy, especially since most Snake's will be well clear of getting hit by any spores. If the grenade has been out for quite a while, don't attempt to pick it up and throw it because by the time you do, it will already have exploded in your hand. If you do catch one, use it to your advantage! Throw it at Snake so that it will explode just as it reaches him


...I've said to much >< Carry on

 

[Razmakazi]

Now how 'bout that platform camping? ;-(

how 'bout the nade on the edge during edgeguarding coz the snake is trying to hit u w/ usmash or mainly make you ledgehop so they can nair you? maybe I just need to learn to stall more and wait for that **** to blow up. @_@