'How to deal with specific enemy moves' Discussion - Discussion 42: IC Grab

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Ok...I think that's done with

If anyone thinks we need to go over a move that's been covered, let me know
Does anyone think I should try and construct some kind of contents table? I'm not sure about anyone else but the page with the moves covered strikes me as being pretty irriating to navigate around

I'll do the requests later but I'd like to cover a move that's been on my mind for a while - Zelda's F Smash (someone give me a better/the correct name if they can please)

I'm going to be honest - I ****ing hate this move. Yes, this IS your fault Kataefi
When spaced, it's irritating to get around. It's got crazy power and I always end up DI'ing the wrong way out of panic. I normally counter this by throwing Turnips/attempting Floating stuff but I sometimes get caught in Zelda's Up Smash which sucks :/

Discuss away!

 

[<π]

just turnip... right?
You should be able to short hop a fair after the hit box is gone. If you mis time it worse that happens is you hit a shield.

But yea turnips are pretty much the perfect answer.
You can toad if you are close enough too

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

It's mainly when I get close to Zelda and end up shielding. I've been trying to spotdodge about a quarter of the way through her F Smash if I sheild it. Most of the time, I'll sheild the whole thing and then OoS Turnip throw at her

 

[BentoBox]

EZPZ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8GC9x0J2Mw&feature=channel

 

[Kataefi]

I've looked into that video and tested things... I don't think it can apply to Peach and taller characters or midheight characters either. DIing down can be inconsistent and dangerous if you do it wrong... it's high risk high reward... but I believe the risk outweighs.

Jigglypuff won't benefit from this that much as it remains unpunishable even when teched. It just heightens the chance of a star ko later on by another kill move as your DI is still taking all the hits. It's safer and easier to just SDI away from her to avoid all these hits - which both Peach and Jiggs can do without too much hassle. FSmash is intended as a damage racker that just so happens to be really good at killing, but it's never a reliable kill move because of the fact it can be DId out of.

Still, DIing isn't always easy. Though her FSmash is easy to do all this stuff for, it's all easier said than done. Your reflexes have to be AMAZING to do this every time - and you need to start it at the very beginning of the multi-hit attack, otherwise you won't escape the final hit in time, which deals the most knockback and damage.

 

[White-Peach]

(S)DI up just like pika's DSmash if you're hit.

Otherwise, just treat it like any other move. You can punish it OOS if you're in range (and she doesnt push you out of range by the end of it ), otherwise just recover your shield

What makes her FSmash good is that, combined with her USmash, she's covered from the front and above with very strong (not just power) moves. She leans back, then leans way forward and sticks out her arm, ending with the sparkly hitbox~ She can abuse it in the same way peach can use her fsmash to mess with range.

Its really nothing to worry about because you can DI out of it easily. If you shield it, just recover your shield with powershielding. If she hits your shield up close, OOS punish. If she hits your shield and you have a turnip in hand, glide toss into her at the end of the hitbox and follow up as you would. Worse case scenarios are: 1) she hits you and you dont DI out of it, and 2) she hits your shield and pushes you out of range and you dont have a turnip to move back in range.

You cant DI out of it (easily) if she catches you (say, coming up from underneath a ledge or a platform) as you approach from below, but those circumstances are really limited.

 

[ExCeL 52]

Turnips...

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Yea, Turnips are too good xD

Ok...yea I'm out of ideas. Yoshi's Egg Throw is next

To be honest, the chances of you meeting a Yoshi are the same as you pulling out two stitchfaces in a row (sorry Yoshi mains :/)

You know what to do...lol does this thread even have a use anymore? Probably not

Whatever...discuss away

 

[Airgemini]

Rick I've pulled two stitches in a row before

 

[deepseadiva]

To be honest, the chances of you meeting a Yoshi are the same as you pulling out two stitchfaces in a row (sorry Yoshi mains :/)

You know what to do...lol does this thread even have a use anymore? Probably not

Rick, I have TWO Yoshi's here in my area.

Fortunately, one got tired of Brawl. And the other got insulted by the local crew and refuses to play.

I also like this thread a lot and consider it one of the best on the board. ^^

 

[RZA_Immortal Technique]

yoshi eggs are too good >.>

 

[JigglyZelda003]

egg whoring Yoshis are annoying, but i find walking ps to be the most effective way to deal w/ it

 

[Kinzer]

It would be cool to know how you deal with Pizzachu and Thunder/Tjolt.

I just though about I after watching Anther and some of his vids... Lol.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

tunderjolt is cancelled by Dair, so you can Dair approach Pikas who are deliberately spamming it on the ground. as for thunder just space and Fsmash him, wait it out, or maybe Dtilt, idk if it reachs outside thunders range.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Perfect shield T jolts and Thunder if you're good enough (it'll stop you getting hit by the rest of Thunder). Aerials/Toad stop T jolts as well

Anyone got anything else to add on Yoshi's eggs? I'm away for a while so if anyones got anything they want discussing, be sure to let me know

 

[Praxis]

Eggs aren't THAT hard to powershield through >_<

I just powershield through them and approach anyway. They're an amazing projectile and are really ugly during recovery, but powershielding is the key.

 

[JennetteMcCurdyFan]

Woo !
NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE TOPIC.
Cool tips and screenshots.

 

[Veelhelm]

Deleted the content.

-Chaco

 

[deepseadiva]

Let's do a Luigi move for this week!

Fsmash? Tornado?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Sorry, I've neglected this thread for a while now. Update time

Next up is Luigi's Cyclone. This is surprisingly annoying and it's one of Luigi's fastest approach options, not to mention it's crucial for his recovery

And don't forget, the next move we're doing is another horrifically deadly move so be sure to visit D:

Discuss away!

 

[Razmakazi]

Shield then punish. If you shield but they space it outta range a dash attack will probably hit if you're quick about reacting to them retreating w/ the end of it. Holding turnips and punishing w/ them tosses/glide tosses work. I think peach bomber hits if you see it coming but I wouldn't rely on this option. If a wigi is recovering w/ this low a downward thrown turnip + edgehog works really well. I'd be careful about floating or short hopping from medium/far range coz ur might the last hit of nado upon landing or in the float if you mess up the float spacing. Meh, i don't see how ur not gonna get hit by this move by a good luigi a couple times in a game/match. This move is so good, lol. And i forgot...i think turnips just cancel the nado so that's why it shud prolly be shielded first but I forgot.

 

[hippiedude92]

Floating (at a semi decent distance ) with Dairs are good, since ur safe, and u wreck him from above.

This move will relatively clank with most of ur ground options. Most luigis will try to gtfo so they wont get punished of its ending lag and or will rise the tornado and come down with a nair. Weaving in and out is what pisses most people off. Not to mention, most luigi players sorta love to spam it >.>

 

[JigglyZelda003]

the don't sort of love it some leech on it like it gives the best orgasms ever. but yeah shield and punish for those who don't space and those who do float and Dair. can the golfclub wack him out of it too?

 

[Kaitou Ace]

I think the golf club might trade hits with his tornado but I'm not sure. It's best to wait until the climax of his tornado and sweep in for a quick Dair and leave because most Luigis will try to utilt or usmash juggle you after @_@

 

[Player01]

It would only make sence (to me at least) that a properly spaced club would knock luigi out of his cyclone and if you hit with the stick part of the club then you might trade hits. not sure but it makes sence right?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

properly spaced it obviously should, even brawls physics aren't that bad. but i ment not eactly near tip of disjointed part too.

 

[Player01]

properly spaced it obviously should, even brawls physics aren't that bad. but i ment not eactly near tip of disjointed part too.

i guess the closer luigi gets to peach while she is swinging would increase the chances of traidng hits.

this might soung crazy but is it maybe possible that jabs can trade hits or clank with it?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

w/ the tornado? i never tried that, but i doubt it. cause i tried w/ Lucas jab before and Luigi ran through me and he and peachs jab both have good priority.

 

[Player01]

w/ the tornado? i never tried that, but i doubt it. cause i tried w/ Lucas jab before and Luigi ran through me and he and peachs jab both have good priority.

lol yeah it was just a thought i had. guess its better to stick with the golf club to the face option

 

[Airgemini]

What about a Pivot Grab?

 

[Player01]

What about a Pivot Grab?

lol if you can time that it should work. i believe a shield grab works so why not a pivot grab.

 

[deepseadiva]

What about a Pivot Grab?

It works against MK's tornado if timed correctly. I'm sure it'd work against Luigi's.

Anyways, let's do an Ike move! Fair maybe...?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Fair hmmm, idk. i haven't played enough good Ikes that space that to really give any advice.

 

[Player01]

hmm lets see. as for your riskier options:

1.toad's spores could reach although they would be weak at that range.
2.SHAD toward him and punish his landing lag.
3.walk away and do a perfectly timed peach bomber at him. the perfect time being right when his sword is hitting the ground.

as for safer options:

1. shield (perferably power) and glide toss a turnip + follow up
2. dodge fair and run in at him to bait another move. then punish or w/e

i cant really think of any other truely safe options. if ike spams his fair then its best to have a turnip in hand to toss at him. any way to take advantage of his long landing lag should work. maybe ill think of something later.

 

[deepseadiva]

Alternativly, we can discuss the fsmash.

Oh god, that move is stoopid.

 

[Player01]

Alternativly, we can discuss the fsmash.

Oh god, that move is stoopid.

ike's back air might be a good one. or maybe up tilt.

 

[Airgemini]

Have we done Peach's Fair?
I think we should.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

to deal w/ peachs Fair you either....

rolll under her
roll away
run away
upB OoS

that is all

 

[Crystalorbie]

Luigi's Cyclone... and Marth's Dancing Blade

First, Luigi's Cyclone attack:

I find the best way to get around it is simply dodge it. Though that may be because the people I play against rarely use the move, and thus rarely come at me with it. I imagine shielding may be better if they like to come at you with it, dodging through them when it is about finished.

I also believe that if you are quick enough to react, you should be able to Fsmash him as he comes whirling at you. Same goes for using Toad, I should think.

A friend of mine says that he once used the Peach Bomber on the cyclone to great effect, I haven't had a chance to test this though... (Finals are coming up shortly)

Now, about the Dancing Blade of Marth's...

No one mentioned, if you do happen to get caught in it, try mashing neutral B and you should be able to pull out Toad when they can't stop the attack and spray them in spores. You still take the damage from the first few hits, but Marth gets, more than likely at such close range, all 18% and the humiliation of having the blade stop dancing.

 

[Razmakazi]

hey rickerdy, if you gimme a list of all the moves you've covered can you get a mod to hand the thread over to me, i'll be glad to continue it. ;o

i was just like talking about wanting to continue this thread w/ MT yesturday so i just thought air would let me have it. XD

basically the boards are inactive and nothing productive is going on lol.