petey_did_it
Smash Ace
I have been playing as MK for a while now and this is how I lose/die. I want people to know how to beat me or MK’s in general so that I can adapt to this and I can get better myself.
Beating the tornado
This is crucial in beating good MKs. Most characters have some move(s) that penetrate(s) the tornado, and those moves are listed here. Thanks Rhyfelwyr!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161939&highlight=list+moves+beat+tornado
Some characters lack a move to use against the tornado, or just find it too hard to pull off, and for these characters, I recommend that you either roll away, or simply shield all the way through it. However, shielding all the way through tornado is very difficult if you do not understand these 2 notes.
Rolling away can be a pretty good option because you can punish if u keep very alert while doing this. 1 successful roll is usually enough to make meta knights tornado harmless. If meta knight continues pursuit on you then shield, because the tornado is not long enough anymore to penetrate the shield. IF MK directs his tornado away from you then chase after him, because he is soon going to drop out of it, and thats your chance to punish.
Punishing
This is very difficult. MK doesn’t have enough lag on his moves. Usually if an MK sees you approaching after MK exits a tornado, he will spot dodge, and counter with a d smash. Most characters lose in the ‘spot dodge and punish’ wars with MK, because MK’s d smash has little lag, so that if you avoid it, he can just spot dodge again, and d smash again, and repeat endlessly. Most MKs take advantage of this, and so most MKs are spot dodgers. In order to beat this tactic I suggest you predict the spot dodge, and punish MK in the ending frames of the dodge. The best way to do this is to be unpredictable, in that in a close quarters fight with MK, go ahead and use a smash with a long start-up such as dedede’s f smash/dash attack, Snake’s f smash, and so on. If your character doesn’t have an attack that has a long start-up time, then simply charge a smash attack while MK is dodging. Another option is to do consecutive attacks, such as quick jabs that last longer than the duration of the spot dodge, so that the last jabs land on MK. moves like lucas's d smash, and G&W's f smash work pretty well against spot doging because these move last longer than the dodge. basically, just make sure u NEVER PUNISH WITH A GRAB. grabs almost never connect in the punishing situation and you end up getting punished yourself so its not worth it at all.
Shuttle Loop
Let's see what can beat this? This is possibly more troublesome than tornado, because it has less counters and is harder to punish. Some of the counters i can think of are kirby's f smash, Toon link dair, and G&W's dair (if aimed correctly), and apparently lucas's dair (if timed correctly). Shuttle loop is almost always followed up by a glide attack, and then a d smash. Unless you are a character with a quick long grab like dedede's, I suggest that you dont shield grab the glide attack, because you will get caught in the upcoming dsmash. And so, the only option your left to do is challenge the glide with an f smash, which is hard to time, shield through the shuttle loop, glide attack, AND d smash and then shield grab if you have a long grab, or just run away lol. once again, its hard to punish. If an MK is spamming this on you then try your best to get underneath the glide, because thats where hes vulnerable. MK i unable to glide attack immediately when he enters glide, so u have about 1 second (maybe less) to get up in his face in the air before the glide attack comes out. but underneath the glide, you are safe
Conclusion
I hope this helps anyone with MK troubles and this info is based off of problems results I've encountered at tourneys mostly, so it's probably reliable. Please beat my MK! FC: 5026-4149-9614. AIM: petey did it
Beating the tornado
This is crucial in beating good MKs. Most characters have some move(s) that penetrate(s) the tornado, and those moves are listed here. Thanks Rhyfelwyr!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161939&highlight=list+moves+beat+tornado
Some characters lack a move to use against the tornado, or just find it too hard to pull off, and for these characters, I recommend that you either roll away, or simply shield all the way through it. However, shielding all the way through tornado is very difficult if you do not understand these 2 notes.
- A decayed (small) shield is unlikely to shield all the way through.
- Moving your shield up greatly prevents the the tornado from pentrating the shield
Rolling away can be a pretty good option because you can punish if u keep very alert while doing this. 1 successful roll is usually enough to make meta knights tornado harmless. If meta knight continues pursuit on you then shield, because the tornado is not long enough anymore to penetrate the shield. IF MK directs his tornado away from you then chase after him, because he is soon going to drop out of it, and thats your chance to punish.
Punishing
This is very difficult. MK doesn’t have enough lag on his moves. Usually if an MK sees you approaching after MK exits a tornado, he will spot dodge, and counter with a d smash. Most characters lose in the ‘spot dodge and punish’ wars with MK, because MK’s d smash has little lag, so that if you avoid it, he can just spot dodge again, and d smash again, and repeat endlessly. Most MKs take advantage of this, and so most MKs are spot dodgers. In order to beat this tactic I suggest you predict the spot dodge, and punish MK in the ending frames of the dodge. The best way to do this is to be unpredictable, in that in a close quarters fight with MK, go ahead and use a smash with a long start-up such as dedede’s f smash/dash attack, Snake’s f smash, and so on. If your character doesn’t have an attack that has a long start-up time, then simply charge a smash attack while MK is dodging. Another option is to do consecutive attacks, such as quick jabs that last longer than the duration of the spot dodge, so that the last jabs land on MK. moves like lucas's d smash, and G&W's f smash work pretty well against spot doging because these move last longer than the dodge. basically, just make sure u NEVER PUNISH WITH A GRAB. grabs almost never connect in the punishing situation and you end up getting punished yourself so its not worth it at all.
Shuttle Loop
Let's see what can beat this? This is possibly more troublesome than tornado, because it has less counters and is harder to punish. Some of the counters i can think of are kirby's f smash, Toon link dair, and G&W's dair (if aimed correctly), and apparently lucas's dair (if timed correctly). Shuttle loop is almost always followed up by a glide attack, and then a d smash. Unless you are a character with a quick long grab like dedede's, I suggest that you dont shield grab the glide attack, because you will get caught in the upcoming dsmash. And so, the only option your left to do is challenge the glide with an f smash, which is hard to time, shield through the shuttle loop, glide attack, AND d smash and then shield grab if you have a long grab, or just run away lol. once again, its hard to punish. If an MK is spamming this on you then try your best to get underneath the glide, because thats where hes vulnerable. MK i unable to glide attack immediately when he enters glide, so u have about 1 second (maybe less) to get up in his face in the air before the glide attack comes out. but underneath the glide, you are safe
Conclusion
I hope this helps anyone with MK troubles and this info is based off of problems results I've encountered at tourneys mostly, so it's probably reliable. Please beat my MK! FC: 5026-4149-9614. AIM: petey did it
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Or you can edgeguard him, I've done it like once out of the many stocks vs MK.
