How Super Smash Bros Brawl SHOULD be.

[Kayn]

Ok, so I just read the last page of this thread and this is what I got form it:
You want to take out wavedashing for some unknown reason. I'm just gonna assume it's because you think it's "cheap," or it's a "glitch," or it sucks the fun outta the game. But to be honest, wavedashing isn't anything close to "cheap," it's not a "glitch," and adding depth to the game makes it funner and more challenging. So unless you hate to be challenged and want everything handed to you on a pretty silver platter, wavedashing should stay.

Will I miss it if it's gone? Not really; no.

Another thing I got from this thread is people want Items in tournaments. Just go back to Game FAQs please.

You should really read the entire thread(or at least more than one page) before you make an opinionated comment. There have been several points on either side and making an assumption like you did would be like voting on a candidate you don't know anything about.

By the way, "funner" isn't a word.

 

[SmashChu]

I don't like the idea of a 'should' be thread. There's nothing to compare brawls current gameplay at the moment. we all haven't played it.

Until it's released, i say we point out it's glitches, and it's drawbacks and what should be changed.

The idiotic fan based crap annoys me, except for THOUGHTS.

QFT. I agree. These arguments occur becasue one side wants the game to be their way only.

 

[Takeshi245]

You know what I think SSBB should be about? Pleasing both casual and competitive fans of the series. Both games have made it pleasing to both sides. Items are there for casual play. For those that didn't like items, they put an item switch to turn them off for the competitive players. Because the game is customizable, you can have matches the way you want it. That's why there is no right way to play Smash as you can play it however you want to.

 

[AgentLemon921]

I'll let other people debate about your other points, but I want to specifically address what you said about wavedashing. What harm is being done by leaving it in? If you don't like it, don't use it. Simple as that. This has been said in other threads but I'll repeat it here: tournament players aren't asking for changes that negatively impact the casual game, why do casual players get to ask for changes that could really constrain tournament players? Additionally, you said something about it not being completely useful; although I can't say that wavedashing is the end all be all technique for advanced play, it contributes a great deal - enough for it to be left in.

-AL

 

[Takeshi245]

I'll let other people debate about your other points, but I want to specifically address what you said about wavedashing. What harm is being done by leaving it in? If you don't like it, don't use it. Simple as that. This has been said in other threads but I'll repeat it here: tournament players aren't asking for changes that negatively impact the casual game, why do casual players get to ask for changes that could really constrain tournament players? Additionally, you said something about it not being completely useful; although I can't say that wavedashing is the end all be all technique for advanced play, it contributes a great deal - enough for it to be left in.

-AL

I argee with most of what you said, but there was this one time Dylan said that they should've never put the Smash Ball in there until he either read my post or someone else's about having the item switch that was there for the previous Smash games. Now he doesn't really care about the Smash Ball anymore.

 

[Xaron Fisk]

I would love to play in an item legal tourney. Ban wavedashing also if you like. If someone organized such a tournament, I'm sure you would get a fair amount of interest. If you are within 50mi of NYC I will come.

 

[Salaad]

QFT. I agree. These arguments occur becasue one side wants the game to be their way only.

I agree....

I just think that you guys should stop telling us that playing without items takes out all the fun..Let us play the way we want to. Don't bother us about the levels we play or the Advanced techs used in the game. Just leave each other alone. -.-

The thing that bothers me is when people don't even try to WaveDash so they call it a glitch or "cheap"

Lets just end it here cause it's kinda pointless.

 

[Rikka]

I'll ask you guys this, what about the people who believe competitive play should include items?
That isn't the same deal as casuals vs competitive.

 

[Takalth]

I'll ask you guys this, what about the people who believe competitive play should include items?
That isn't the same deal as casuals vs competitive.

Host a tournament with items.

Too many people seem to think that tournament rules are dictated by a board of 2 or 3 super-competitive smash players who have passed a law that you aren't allowed to host a tournament with items. I woudl actually show up to an item=on tournament (even though I prefer them off), and plenty of other people would.

Really, most Smash tournaments are unofficial and hosted by some guy at a house, apartment common room, or some other place that he has access to. If people want items in tournaments, they can start hosting.

 

[Midna]

hmmm... if only more people lived in New Mexico, since there are no big cities there.

 

[Micahc]

You should really read the entire thread(or at least more than one page) before you make an opinionated comment. There have been several points on either side and making an assumption like you did would be like voting on a candidate you don't know anything about.
Meh, the fifty posts I did read pretty much showed me what was going on. I just say if you abhore advanced tech/items don't play with them and keep them in.
By the way, "funner" isn't a word.

Funner isn't a word?! Imma gonna sue whoever I downloaded Fire fox spell check from...

 

[JesterBox]

How the great divide works:

Why do you care about something you never use? If you don't like the way tourney are, tuff noggies.

Why do they want everyone to be forced to play like them?

Casual and Pros, United, we piss each other off, divided, everything is fine.

 

[Midna]

so where do people who don't give a dang about whether or not any abilities return go?

pros are always bashing everyone who opposes advanced techniques, whatever their reasons are,

n00bs bash pro moves.

 

[Superstar]

It would have worked if you put scrubs rather than casual, not all casuals are like that. Even though I'm competitive I don't think the comic was... justified... Also, some competitive players are scrubs, though very few are.

And the ones who bash advanced techniques are scrubs, I mean with calls of cheapness and that stuff.

 

[JesterBox]

I wasn't trying to say all casual players are like that. If you don't like advanced stuff, fine just don't get mad at people who do, and vice versa.

Play however you want.

I just hate it when people want what helped the game thrive for so long, torn out. Why do the "scrubs" feel that competitive players should change. It is just like saying "I don't like the way you cut your hair, the gel is cheating and you need to cut it the same as mine." yet honestly... why do you care?

(I needed a comparision and I just had a haircut)

 

[Bassoonist]

Yeah, but you did generalize all casual players.

I'm a casual player and I don't care what tournament players do... Just as long as they don't get a sense of arrogance and tell me how to play my game.

 

[JesterBox]

^^^^ You see this, I love people like this, they make me smile. ^^^^^^
Perhaps I should have used a different term, is scrubs or noobs more accurate? I didn't mean to generalize I just couldn't find the word I was looking for. I just need a word for people like Viewtiful_Jeff.

 

[the grim lizard]

Jesterbox, you're my favorite person in this thread.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I COMPLETELY disagree with the people who believe that Brawl should be nothing but Melee 2.0 with nothing but more characters, some slight character tweaking and new stages/items. I'd like to see a change of pace. Sure, people would have to learn how to Smash again, but wouldn't it be sort of worth it? I think learning was part of the allure of the game, because as people have said before Smash is "easy to learn, hard to master."

 

[the grim lizard]

The only reason those moves are important is because that is the physics engine of Melee. There is no doubt that they will tweak things one way or another in Brawl. So while the same rules may not apply, advanced techs will come out of the game in some form or another.

Something will come about, there will be new rules, there will be new techniques, and there will be new must-learns for every character. There's no sense dwelling on the old ones for Brawl (unless they're in of course), and there's no sense complaining about adv. techs because they will be in, and people will find them (intended or not), and people will use them; they will become the new standard for playing characters. It's inevitable; so people may as well accept it.

I agree with the Othello analogy, ODL

 

[NES n00b]

^^^^ You see this, I love people like this, they make me smile. ^^^^^^
Perhaps I should have used a different term, is scrubs or noobs more accurate? I didn't mean to generalize I just couldn't find the word I was looking for. I just need a word for people like Viewtiful_Jeff.

The word you were looking for was scrubs. Scrubs. Let me repeat, scrubs. I don't think scrubs like that word and neither do casual players (even though it isn't directed to casual players themselves. . . . . .arg). Either way, you are going to be flamed for defending something considered "pro" or "advanced" or "competative."

Edit: Good comic. You need to use the word scrub instead of casual.

 

[Viewtiful_Jeff]

Oh boy, low-quality obviously biased comics! Hey, I can do that too!

Boy, that was fun!

 

[the grim lizard]

No, you can't do it...>_<

 

[NES n00b]

Ummmmm you can go to a tournament. Plenty of scrubs go to tournies. . . . . . . . . .just don't expect to win, or for people to change the rules for your convience.

Edit: The purpose of a tournament is to see who has the most skill. Go to smashfests just for pure fun (even though tournies are fun, too)

Edit: lol, not obscure enough apparently. XD

 

[Viewtiful_Jeff]

Can't you read, boy? It was an obviously biased low-quality comic.

 

[the grim lizard]

Obviously.

 

[NES n00b]

Did I mention that I learn to do the techs while I played? I never practiced them without a person playing against. Even with the items on, FFA, and on banned stages (most of the time).

While you (meaning people against advance techs and such) play the way you play, you can learn advance techs. Try them out for a while (a month or two) and see if you like them. You might be suprised how much fun it can be to use them. You feel more control over your character and you feel the game moves at a faster pace (faster pace usually means more fun but not always the case). Come on, these techs might actually be fun for ya.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I'm sorry, but the last two panels had me LOLing so hard I nearly choked on my doughnut...

 

[PurpleStuff]

Ok, this is really simple-

Anyone will admit that the game is not perfect. No fighting game has ever been perfectly balanced. But I also don't think there has ever been a series of fighting games quite like the SSB series (maybe there has been, I'm not sure, I don't play that many video games). What I mean by this is that you have a lot of options in this game. The option to choose from a wide variety of levels, to select which levels to put on random, to select which items to put on random, or even to select items at all.

Now, after years and years of playing this game, the more serious players have gotten together and the game has evolved. Yes, I said SERIOUS. That does not mean they are better people, or they should have a bigger say in how Brawl develops, or they are right, or anything like that. It only means that they have taken the game more seriously than the casual player that dislikes the evolved style of gameplay we see in tournaments. There's nothing wrong with that, either.

However, I think most people would also agree that the more balanced a fighting game is, the better it is. I think we can accept that fact. Now, with that said, the removal of items, the banning of stages, and the development and use of advanced techniques have been culled from all the numerous options and ways to play in order to level the playing field and make it a battle of skill. The more randomness, the more luck is involved. That is a cold hard fact. "Serious", tournament level players don't like that. Good for them. They want the game based on skill. "Casual", 'play for fun' players like that. Good for them. They want to just play the game and do whatever they want with (or without, as the case may be) the rules.

So we can conclude that- There shouldn't be an argument.

Topic creator, I agree with you (or most of what you said). I think there should be even more items, and even more wacky stages, and even more OPTIONS.

I just know that as soon as the game comes out, I'm going to fiddle around with all the zaniness, and then IMMEDIATELY turn off all the items and try and figure out which stages should be tournament legal before everyone else. I like to play that way. You don't. That's fine.

Keeping the game essentially as the other two have been will be the best way. Period. Tournament players can turn off "95% of the game" or whatever anybody said, and casual players can turn everything on. Everybody wins!

Now, the only beef I have with anybody is the casual players who think they're having more fun than tournament players. WTF?!? Why would we play this game if we weren't having fun? To make money?

That's a joke. Everybody laugh.

No, that abhorrent comic I saw a couple posts up is based on the premise that SERIOUS=NO FUN. That is just, well, stupid. I know nobody wants to hear personal testimony, but I played this game for years as a casual player, and enjoy it significantly more now that I know "all that advanced crap and lame edge-hogging stuff". Yeah, you can make video games about "having fun and making friends" if you want to. AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT TOURNAMENT PLAYERS DO. Hell, I know this is just an opinion, but I think tournament players meet more people and even have MORE fun with the game than casual players do.

My two cents. Sorry for the ALL CAPS rage there at the end. I just can't stand when people try to tell me (not ME personally, but you know what I mean) that I'm not having fun playing this way. This game wouldn't have such a large, and incredibly long-lived, tournament life if people weren't having fun playing that way.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Oh boy, low-quality obviously biased comics! Hey, I can do that too!

Boy, that was fun!

...
...
...

...... Don't have kids.








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[Drunken_Dragon]

Jeff: glitch = unforseen programing variable that was due to error or miscalculation.

movement technique = using variables in the movement system of a game to advance your movement. you say supers have been in EVERY FIGHTING GAME EVER... well so have advanced techs. from sf2, to everything since.

you want to play the game for fun, not for skill or ability or competition. all i can tell you is, this is the wrong place for you to come. the same with anyone who dosent want to play to win. yeah your entitled to your opinion, but i say i disagree with you because your objective with the game isent the same as mine.

i play to win, to get better as a gamer, that IS fun to me, i like to challenge myself. you want a mindless experince you will neither gain nor lose anything from, other than time.

competition makes us get better and go past our limits as human beings. not idle mind busying.

edit: i read nothing in this thread but the first post. for clarification.

Heart>Guts>Brain>Body.

 

[Harry Megamix]

M'kay. First of all, the so called "competetive players" need to get a freaking grip on reality.

You say "advanced techs" such as wavedashing, moonwalking, L-cancelling, etc. aren't glitches? Fine. But the fact is that the game developers did not intend for the engine to have that effect. If they did, don't you think they would have promoted it? No, because you don't care. The only thing you care about is "mastering" so-called "advanced techniques", because all of you who partake in such things get a kick out of pretending to be better than people who don't. That's pretty much what it boils down to, is that you found a fun little whatever-you-wanna-call-it (because we can't call it a glitch--oh heavens, no), and it happens to create circumstances in the game where you have a better chance of winning because of invincibility frames and decreased lag. If you look at it plainly enough and without a biased standpoint, it's basically cheating the game engine. Plain and simple.

Why did the game devs put after-attack lag into the game in the first place if they were going to put an "advanced technique" into the game that would reduce it considerably? Or why didn't the devs just put in a wavedashing button instead of programming it into the game secretly and sitting at their desks and saying:

"LOLZ THIS IS TEH AWESOME ADVANCED TECHNIQUE LOLZ!"

"WAIT--WHY IS US NOT INCLUDING IT IN ZE INSTRUCTION BOOKLET ER NOTHIN?"

"DUHHH...I DUNNO, MEBBE SO A GROUP OF ELITIST JERKS CAN FIND OUT ABOUT IT AND CREATE A WHOLE ELITIST NAZI SOCIETY WHERE IF YOU DON'T PRACTICE THESE TECHNIQUES YOU'RE AUTOMATICALLY CONSIDERED A SCRUB AND A NOOB. DOY."

So "casual" players are considered "scrubs" because they stick to a certain code of honor? You mean the code of honor that was originally supposed to come with the game? There's reason games are programmed certain ways, and aren't just open source, or able to be action-replayed. Do you allow action-replays at tourneys? No. Why? Because it's cheating the game engine.

So is using "advanced tehcniques."

 

[NES n00b]

L canceling isn't a glitch at all. It was intended. -_- There was a similar technique called z-canceling that got rid of all lag (ssb64). The developers decided to keep it in for Melee but made the technique less powerful by only reducing the lag by half so that way everyone would have the same relative (to all the characters) amount of lag as intended. Moonwalking is useless (almost). Wavedashing is the only thing you mentioned that is even close to unintended things that help. They did put wavedashing in there in that when you airdodge into the ground. . . . . . .you slide on the ground. Did they think that it would work like it used in tournies? Probably not. Does it matter? Not really.

We get a kick out of pretending we are better than people who don't use advance techs? What? We do it because it is FUN! FUN. We have fun playing it our way just like you like playing it your way. Your arguement is very lacking. An example of your argument from the other side: "Well, you only play these these "items" and "luck" or "random" factor just to annoy us tourney people." *note I am just showing how rediculous that statement about us tourney players get a kick pretending to have more skills to casuals. I do not believe the example I gave one bit*

You: Rlly? You have fun playing with only Fox (I play Link) and only FD (much more stages) with no items?

Me: Yes, really. I have FUN doing these techs and in tourney rules.

If you seriously think there is a "code of honor" in this game or that we get out enjoyment by flaunting (yeah right) about being better than people who don't use advance techs, then something is wrong with your logic. Don't tell me how to play the game or that it is "wrong" or "cheating" to play the way I play, because I certainly will not tell you how to play this game.

*I underlined and wrote in all caps for fun to make sure people read and understand that part.

Edit: Scrubs are called scrubs not only because of this "honor," but because they also complain about the tourney setup and metagame. . . . . . . . . .sorta like you do. Don't be a scrub.

 

[Harry Megamix]

I'm not telling you how to play the game at all. By all means, please continue to play the game as it was not intended.

Fun? Fun, you say? It's fun to exploit a glitch in a video game, group in mass numbers, and then pick on people who don't share the same view as you?

Did they think that it would work like it used in tournies? Probably not. Does it matter? Not really.

Actually, it does.

Let's say I create a video game. A chess game, for example. And because of some flaw in my game programming code, players can press a series of buttons in an odd and obscure manner in order to exploit a glitch that allows players to automatically teleport their pieces to another space, out of the way of attacking enemy pieces, while the other player is taking his turn.

And let's pretend it just so happens that after this game is released, people say "I know--let's have large-scale tournaments and play this game publicly." Everyone thought it was a good idea.

Then one day, while they were playing, someone discovered this UNINTENDED MANNER OF PLAY. Once they stumbled upon this GAME ENGINE EXPLOITATION, they immediately exclaimed"Hey everybody--look! It's an advanced technique!" to which everyone around them answered with a chorus of "oohs" and "aahs". After that day, half of the players decided to exploit this glitch, while the other half decided to play the game as intended.

Sound familiar? Thought so.

Why do games have rules? So all hell doesn't break loose, and whole tournaments / styles of playing don't get out of hand and start making elitist societies that exclude others from playing the game as intended.

And I'm a "scrub" because I complain? I'm not complaining. I'm just stating the facts.

 

[NES n00b]

I pick on you? lol Who is the one telling me that my way is cheating? I swear that there are people everywhere calling tourney people "cheaters" "tourneytards" "tourney*****" and being told that the way they play is "wrong" "not honorable" "cheap" "not intended" "not fun" "boring". Plus, scrubs and casuals > tourney and competative people in population (scrubs alone would). Facts? You didn't even know that L cancel was intended. lol Stating your opinion on a subject is not facts.

If my way is not fun, then I don't want to have fun. Seriously, that is how much fun I have. The difference between you and me is that I played casually at one time. Have you tried to play at a tourney level? No. So how can you give opinions on stuff that doesn't affect you and that you do not have much if any experience with?

Edit: Scrubs like to say things like code of honor and cheating when it comes to tourney play. So yes. . . . . .you are a scrub.

 

[Circus]

I'm not telling you how to play the game at all. By all means, please continue to play the game as it was not intended.

Fun? Fun, you say? It's fun to exploit a glitch in a video game, group in mass numbers, and then pick on people who don't share the same view as you?



Actually, it does.

Let's say I create a video game. A chess game, for example. And because of some flaw in my game programming code, players can press a series of buttons in an odd and obscure manner in order to exploit a glitch that allows players to automatically teleport their pieces to another space, out of the way of attacking enemy pieces, while the other player is taking his turn.

And let's pretend it just so happens that after this game is released, people say "I know--let's have large-scale tournaments and play this game publicly." Everyone thought it was a good idea.

Then one day, while they were playing, someone discovered this UNINTENDED MANNER OF PLAY. Once they stumbled upon this GAME ENGINE EXPLOITATION, they immediately exclaimed"Hey everybody--look! It's an advanced technique!" to which everyone around them answered with a chorus of "oohs" and "aahs". After that day, half of the players decided to exploit this glitch, while the other half decided to play the game as intended.

Sound familiar? Thought so.

Why do games have rules? So all hell doesn't break loose, and whole tournaments / styles of playing don't get out of hand and start making elitist societies that exclude others from playing the game as intended.

And I'm a "scrub" because I complain? I'm not complaining. I'm just stating the facts.

You know, not so long ago, I would have whole-heartedly agreed with your point of view. However, I've since seen the light.

First, there's a flaw with your analogy. What you describe in your Chess game example is a glitch/cheat, where as, for example, something like wavedashing is a side-effect of game physics, as has been said several times, I'm sure. It isn't cheating. If a player could input a certain series of buttons that would make him or her invincible, or able to teleport anywhere on the stage, that would be a different matter.

Now, here's the problem with the it's-not-how-the-game-was-meant-to-be-played argument: The gamer makers intentions don't matter. YOU play the game how YOU bloody well want to.

If your FAVORITE thing to do in the whole game is to immediately suicide 900 times when the battle starts because you love the noise your character makes when it dies, does that mean that you are "playing it wrong" when you do so? By the game maker's perspective, I suppose. But who cares? You're the one playing the game. Have fun.

Advanced techs work by the same logic. Play the way that feels right to you. I, personally, like playing very leisurely. I've never really bothered with trying to get good with advanced techniques. Others like SHFFLing or wavedashing or whatever the hell else in order to dance all over the stage and do a bunch of fast-paced ****. That's their prerogative. Let them be.

 

[Elysium]

From what I've seen. All the trny-level guys are the ones trying to reasonable, and understand that the game can be played different ways. Why is it that the scrubish ones feel the need to continue the debate by claiming false facts and biased views? It always starts with someone yelling off that the trny players are cheating and playing the game wrong, Never the other way around.

 

[NES n00b]

You know, not so long ago, I would have whole-heartedly agreed with your point of view. However, I've since seen the light.

First, there's a flaw with your analogy. What you describe in your Chess game example is a glitch/cheat, where as, for example, something like wavedashing is a side-effect of game physics, as has been said several times, I'm sure. It isn't cheating. If a player could input a certain series of buttons that would make him or her invincible, or able to teleport anywhere on the stage, that would be a different matter.

Now, here's the problem with the it's-not-how-the-game-was-meant-to-be-played argument: The gamer makers intentions don't matter. YOU play the game how YOU bloody well want to.

If your FAVORITE thing to do in the whole game is to immediately suicide 900 times when the battle starts because you love the noise your character makes when it dies, does that mean that you are "playing it wrong" when you do so? By the game maker's perspective, I suppose. But who cares? You're the one playing the game. Have fun.

Advanced techs work by the same logic. Play the way that feels right to you. I, personally, like playing very leisurely. I've never really bothered with trying to get good with advanced techniques. Others like SHFFLing or wavedashing or whatever the hell else in order to dance all over the stage and do a bunch of fast-paced ****. That's their prerogative. Let them be.

You are a god send of logic. Thank you. People need to be more like you. Everyone just play the game like you want to. I played casually, it was fun. Having all sorts of options and random stuff happening was fun. I understand why you guys would play casually. I DON'T understand why people complain about tourney players. If it is because of that comic's portrayel of people alienating nubs (which is horribly inaccurate >_>), then go to smash fests where they are more likely to play with items and do not care how skilled you are. I have seen people who didn't use advance techs go to those things and they had fun. Or make your own tournament with other people. Start one in your college/high school/game store or whatever if you don't can't have them at your place.

Edit: That is how I feel above poster. I am sure that tourney people start some flame stuff, but it is usually the scrubs in MY experience that start the arguements(doesn't mean it is right, I haven't gathered concrete facts, just anecdotes). I think the reason that scrubs start the arguements and not the tourney people is because the tourney people have experienced both sides (casual and competative) so they have a better understanding. Also, tourney people usually have been around longer so they know the circle of debate that keeeps happening (just educated guesses but I think they make sense).

 

[Harry Megamix]

What I find amusing is how you automatically assume that I don't know how to perform the advanced techniques, or that I have never been to a tournament.

Actually, I learned advanced techniques not too long after Melee came out, and have been frequenting tournaments fairly usually. It's just I don't use those methods to win.

From what I've seen. All the trny-level guys are the ones trying to reasonable, and understand that the game can be played different ways. Why is it that the scrubish ones feel the need to continue the debate by claiming false facts and biased views? It always starts with someone yelling off that the trny players are cheating and playing the game wrong, Never the other way around.

So I'm the one with biased views? Whose to say who is biased and who is not? What do you base this on, other than your siding with the "competitive" players?

And BTW--what makes me any different than what you refer to as "competetive players"? I play competitively. That doesn't automatically make me share your viewpoint. However, me not sharing your viewpoint doesn't automatically make me a scrub, or a n00b. In fact, there's a good chance I might get the best of you when smashing it up in a tourney match.

First, there's a flaw with your analogy. What you describe in your Chess game example is a glitch/cheat, where as, for example, something like wavedashing is a side-effect of game physics, as has been said several times, I'm sure. It isn't cheating. If a player could input a certain series of buttons that would make him or her invincible, or able to teleport anywhere on the stage, that would be a different matter.

Wavedashing is doing exactly that; just on a smaller scale. If you want to go ahead and say you can draw the line when it comes down to numbers, hey, go ahead--be my guest. It's just not a sound argument.

Cheating the game is cheating the game, no matter whether it's an "unintended side effect of game physics" or it's an actual cheat. Would you still be as good as you are today without them?

 

[NES n00b]

You can be a scrub and be competative. Look at Japan.-_- Scrub is a term that describes a person with a "certain viewpoint" so yes, not sharing a viewpoint that concerns tournaments makes you a scrub.

Edit: What tournies do you go to and not use advance techs and still win? Why do you use advance techs if you think it is cheating and are not using them to win? Wavedashing is an exploit. . . . . . . . . . kinda like finding out how the easy way of beating a boss. ex: The last boss of Kid Icarus you can beat Medussa by standing near the middle but a little lower and shooting Medussa and the snake. Is this cheating? No, not really.