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How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Metagame

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
Lord Ike
or
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Metagame
Ike is a fun character but to play him is a gamble. You have to give up 10 yards to gain 30, and you're not guaranteed to gain that 30 yards. You can mind game him to victory, but it's like playing Rock Paper Scissors with only a really big ****in' rock. He can sometimes hit you with that rock, and it beats your normal rock. However, if you're smart and use your paper a lot you can get around him. However, if you become too predictable with your paper, just like if he becomes too predictable with his REALLY BIG ****IN ROCK, you're put on the receiving end of his big angry Rock of doom. Luckily for you, you have a bunch of smaller rocks, so you can attack with them quicker and can throw them at him.
--Bouse




To a lot of you Ike is this and simply this: A killer of noobs.

This statement is not only true but indicative of his play style, his abilities, and his general strategy as a character.



!!!DISCLAIMER!!!
I am not here to prove that Ike is a good character or a bad character. I am not here to talk in-depth about mechanics like super-armor. I'm merely going to offer a critique of his strengths and weaknesses, and to give suggestions on game play. I am not talking about match-ups, or infinites that can be done against Ike. This is a read-through for new players who want to take Ike to a different level of play.

Well to start... Ike hits hard. Real hard. His side smash is one of the most powerful in the game, and has solid range. What's the problem you ask? It's slower than that 18% of the American public who still think George Bush is a good president. Remember playing Ike is to put yourself at an immediate disadvantage. He is most likely a middle mid-tier character, he's strong, and is both good at punishing and getting punished.

THE SMASH ATTACKS
This guy just don't want to win you know. He wants to bury you, he wants to humiliate you, he wants to prove to the whole world that you was nothing but some kind of a... a freak the first time out.
--Burgess Meredith as Mickey Goldmill

What's the bad news you ask? All of his smashes are all about confusing and reading your opponent, even more so than the average character.

UP SMASH
His U-Smash, while one of his easiest smashes to KO with, has excellent range all around Ike on the ground, and is not only slow but has an easily readable animation. How do you counter this? Well here are a few options...

  1. Don't use it.
  2. Use it sparingly so your opponents are surprised to see it.
  3. Say screw it all and just start playing Metaknight. He has a sword... right?
  4. Alternate your timings so that you can confuse your opponent into dodging at the wrong time.
All of these are solid options except for (1). Every move Ike has is useful to some effect, even his F-Smash which I will get to later.

DOWN SMASH
His D-Smash is relatively quick, can be pulled off easily, and has annoying ending lag (What smash of his doesn't?). However if your opponent is a bit of a roller, you can use this to punish his predictable strategy. To be honest it's a fairly solid move, but relying on it for a KO will cause you to get ripped into pieces half of the time.

FORWARD SMASH
His F-Smash is such a beautiful move isn't it? If someone makes a big enough and insanely terrible move, you can send them to the next life at 65%. The problem? You can't make your opponents ********, and most of the time their mistakes will be minor, and won't be the window needed to pull off the move. To be honest it's a pretty terrible move in that respect, however it can be used to intimidate your opponents. If an opponent becomes to shield happy you can try to slap them with this. Not only will it push them back, but it will start to make them usually think one of two things.

  1. OH DEAR JESUS! ALMOST DIED THERE!
  2. OH DEAR JESUS! THIS KID IS A MORON!
Worrying your opponent, or making them feel confident definitely helps Ike. Overly confident people are stupid people, as are overly neurotic people. Remember, your opponents perception of the match is what fuels your metagame.

THE APPROACH
Some more bad news is that for the most part your approach is going to be painful, annoying, and possibly may make you punch your opponent out of sheer rage. However Ike has a few things going for him.


  1. His sword is pretty long, might want to use that to your advantage.
  2. His N-Air and F-Air can not only be used to damage your opponent but can be utilized to fake out an opponent, and create a defense.
  3. His Dash and Quick Draw are both useful moves. At low percentages Quick Draw actually tends to be more useful when you do NOT hit the opponent with it. Rather, you go right into a jab combo or grab out of the Quick Draw.

Waiting for the good news? You've got at least a paragraph or two to go buddy.

FINISHING PEOPLE OFF
So you want to kill someone as Ike? Missing the good ol' days when your friends would roll right into your F-Smash? Well those days most likely aren't coming back, but you can give them other moves to fear.

Fighting a good Ike is a truly harrowing experience. Not because he's a particularly amazing character, but because if I screw up he can end me at 80%.
--Kilrain

Kilrain is the guy who I play against on a near daily basis. Some days he'll put my Ike in his grave reading my every move before I do it. However, this just makes me alternate and try different strategies. Some days he plays such an evasively defensive game that I have to pretty much resort to Ike's Jab Combo to kill him. Other days he plays offensively and I just have to wait for that critical mistake. Really, it's just mastering techniques you see people like Silven using. I do not endorse Silven as the “Savior of Ike”, but he does demonstrate some “advanced” techniques with Ike such as Aether Spiking and Knowledge of the Range of not only his own attacks... but his opponents'.

Aether Spiking you should see in Silven's video. It's probably Ike's best offstage technique. You reverse Aether (Using Aether while facing away from the stage) while off the map. This will cause your Aether to send your opponents down ward, gimping their recovery. This does NOT however finish most people off. Generally you have to connect with another move like a B-Air or a D-Air to kill them.

Knowing what your Opponent can do, I'm not even going to explain this. I shouldn't have to.

RECOVERING
Yup! More bad news! Unluckily for Ike his Side B and Up B have definite weaknesses to them.

SIDE B aka QUICK DRAW
Looks badass, and is easily gimped. Let me explain how!

  1. If your opponent has a solid projectile like a Pikmin, Turnip, or Waddle Dee you're boned if they have decent aim. You will hit THAT target and fall to your death.
  2. The body blocker is another great way of gimping this recovery method. If your opponent puts himself right in the path of your Quick Draw not only can you just hit him and then fall to your death, but if he dodges it just cancels out your attack and you fall to your death. Fantastic ain't it?
How to get around this?

  1. Don't use Quick Draw when an Aether will do.
  2. Memorize it's distance and it's path per time charged. Knowing your character in this manner is probably how you won't get owned massively hard while trying to recover.
  3. Don't always aim for the ledge. Sometimes aiming for either above or below your opponents normal pathing can save your ***. Not to mention the lack of downtime you have upon landing the move perfectly.
UP B aka AETHER
It can be used to drop people down and kill them, has super armor, and looks great. It really only has a few weakness.

  1. Poor aim with it will generally cause you to die an either painfully quick and embarrassing death, or a painful, quick, and irritating death.
  2. It has a vulnerable point at the peak of the attack. Generally that is when people will land spikes, or disabling moves that will allow them to offstage you.
Outside of that it's not a half bad recovery method.

Oh yeah that's right some good news.
JAB COMBO
I ain't no bum Mick. I ain't no bum.
-- Sylvester Stallone as Rocky Balboa

Ike's jab combo is probably one of the best in the game. It can be done out of a shield and/or dodge quite easily, and builds up solid damage. Even at high percentages it can kill people if you need it to. This is the #1 ability of Ike.

THE AIR
The huge golden space ship hung in the air in almost exactly the way a brick doesn't.
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy



Ike's Aerials are slow. I'll talk about them in the order of how useful they are.

N-Air
His best aerial in my personal opinion. Quick, defensive, and powerful enough to get the job done against a lot of characters.

F-Air
Great for pressuring people. Has annoying end lag, but great range and power.
B-Air
His fastest aerial. It hits hard, fast, and has a small hitbox. Great as a surprise but not as a staple to an approach.

D-Air
This is great for Ike's off-stage game, and even okay for his on-stage game. This move can send your opponents plummeting to their death, and can surprise the hell out of someone if you all of the sudden go on the offensive, and plummet down on top of them using your sword to guide your landing.

U-Air
Small vertical range, relatively quick and powerful. The true strength in this attack is not only in it's strength but it's DURATION and HORIZONTAL range. It can be used against those who habitually air dodge.

Now here comes the section that is MOST CRITICAL to playing Ike well.

MIND-GAMING
We don't borrow; we don't rent; we don't lease: We TAKE the mind... So in conclusion, we are?
--John Michael Higgins as Mentok the Mindtaker

What is “Mind-Gaming.” Simply Mind-Gaming is a term used to describe momentary differentiations in a player's metagame. Basically, to eliminate all the useless words what it means is to fake out your opponent. How can you do this you ask?

  1. Find MULTIPLE attack patterns that are useful, put your opponent in an awkward position, and flow relatively well.
  2. Watch your opponent well, learn to read their moves before they do them. Most players have a specific approach they love to use. Figure out what you can do to STOP that approach.
  3. Build up patterns that look similar but have different outcomes. Such as a dodging pattern that can end in a jab combo or a grab. Or an aerial pattern that can end in any of the four based on what you do for a second jump. It helps to make your opponent guess what you're doing as well.
  4. Keep your cool. Regardless of the level of skill a player has, what “cheap” move they're using, and what “broken” character they're playing, each player has some sort of a fault as does the character they're playing. You're not fighting God, you're fighting a 35 year old man who lives in his parents basement, dresses up like a woman for Anime Conventions, and plays the game for at least 6 hours a day.
  5. Also don't let morons get to you, just as a general rule of gaming. If they say things that would warrant the phrase, “Hey... guess what the subtle shifting of your intestines doesn't have much to do with this game. Get over it and shut up.” The more they complain and the less you seem pissed off by it the more it will piss them off. Accept the fact that they're idiots and move beyond it. Just trying to not care will just make you arrogant.
  6. Don't let the same arrogance that can plague your opponents plague you. Stay vigilant, pay attention, and don't just assume that because you got in the first kill that you're going to win the match. Most people who play this game are vicious, vile, and voracious people. They will give you new orifices to go with each and every one of your mistakes.

Some people confuse acceptance with apathy, but there's all the difference in the world. Apathy fails to distinguish between what can and what cannot be helped; acceptance makes that distinction. Apathy paralyzes the will-to-action; acceptance frees it by relieving it of impossible burdens.”
--Arthur Gordon


FINAL THOUGHT
To be honest with you, I love playing Ike. However, I understand his limitations. My only true hope is that maybe someone will play Ike in a way that will grant the character recognition as not being terrible, and a viable character. Some of us know how viable he actually is, which is why we triumph his strengths and downplay his weaknesses. However that is NOT how the character will gain respect from others. Ike will gain respect by acknowledging his faults, being humble about his strengths, and extending that humility towards his victories in major tournaments should they occur some day. I hope reading this helped you in some way, or has shed some insight on Ike. It's a character I love to play, and want people to know that it's okay to acknowledge his faults. It's what makes him an enjoyable character. To be serious, if his F-Smash was as fast as Toon Link's, this game would have become like Guilty Gear. Everyone would play Sol Badguy... I mean Ike, only Ike, and originality and fun would be dead and gone.
 

Monjula

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He(?)'s trying to clear up some spots for Ike users that might have been cloudy before, especially users that are new to the character. Although, I have learned from this as well. I've always had problems keeping a level head in fights tbh...I like how this is worded, and it gives me a few ideas..
 

Arturito_Burrito

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^ Yah thats what I felt like he was doing but I still don't know what to say lol. no one has really added anything to start a conversation. I suppose we should be talking about moves and how they should be used. its a good thread but I'm still not sure what to say lol.

Also i feel like it should get a sticky. It can educate a few people on Ike.
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
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I dare do all that may become a man; Who dares do more is none.
 

Rykoshet

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No really, I quit.
Bouse! How dare you steal the idea to write about a common concept in smash that a characters needs to excel with, with absolutely no actual text copied whatsoever? **** man...
 

Bouse

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The best apology against false accusers is silence and sufferance, and honest deeds set against dishonest words.

He just stole my Mind game section from my ****. =/
My Guide has quotes in italics.
That makes me better than you.
Also, your guide doesn't have any pictures.
How can you have a guide without pictures?
Also, you're not funny.
How can you enlighten people without adding a light hint of humor to the depressing life that is playing as Ike?

Edit: Forgot to add, I never read your guide. Odds are it's terrible, poorly worded, and blindly triumphant of Ike.
 

Tenki

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@.@ Weird. If the mindgames are similar to both people, then maybe that's the extent of the mindgames you can play with Ike- feint a pattern, find a pattern, force a roll. =/

-----------
On a random note,

Dr. Strangelove was a funny movie. Bodily fluids.
 

Rykoshet

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No really, I quit.
That's how it is for most characters unless you have variable projectiles like link. Theyre not gonna get into every specific instance but generally forcing your opponent to react a certain way is the basis of all mindgames.
 

Bouse

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Ike is a fun character, but only if you are truly enthused! There is a real magic in enthusiasm. It spells the difference between mediocrity and accomplishment.
 

Bouse

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Well, that would completely eliminate the Dr. Strangelove reference... So no... no it shouldn't.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
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Bouse, you are a good man and worthy of respect.

I salute you good sir.
 

Kalm

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Bouse, I think you should mention that Aether can punish anyone camping over the ledge that you're hanging over. Since he throws the sword up into the ledge and onto the stage itself. It's had to use this attack in this way and actually miss, and unless the opponent completely blocks it AND THEN you land on the stage instead of the ledge again it won't leave you open.

When I show opponents that I will punish them for ever approaching the edge while I'm hanging from it. They usually back off and wait for me to get on the stage before trying to attack.

Also Quick Draw can be used to get back onto the stage from hanging on the ledge.

I'm sure you knew all of this, I just thought I would mention it.

You did a really great job, I read it all and was very impressed. I think when Ike fights for his friends, you're one of them.
 

Monjula

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Bouse! How dare you steal the idea to write about a common concept in smash that a characters needs to excel with, with absolutely no actual text copied whatsoever? **** man...
I know I lol'd at this post...

Anyways, as this isn't really a guide, this is more of...one...giant...****ing...tip...Um...Yea, it's an amazing one. I'd been having troubles, but lately I've just been relaxing and...My God it feels good to tear open a hole to punish somewhere around 60%. o_o
 

Bouse

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Well tbh it was a "giant tip" mainly because well... Ike is... I'd say at least 90-95% mindgames. All you can do is suggest because there is no solid specific strategy to take, that would completely eliminate the predictability if you used "Silven attack pattern Beta Alpha Exploding Puppy*".

But thank you all for your kind words, I guess I may actually have to update this silliness.

*That is when Silven SH's forward, Nair's, and uses Eruption.
 

Bouse

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Bouse, I think you should mention that Aether can punish anyone camping over the ledge that you're hanging over. Since he throws the sword up into the ledge and onto the stage itself. It's had to use this attack in this way and actually miss, and unless the opponent completely blocks it AND THEN you land on the stage instead of the ledge again it won't leave you open.
The top of the Aether leaves you vulnerable to attack, a smart person will notice this and exploit it if you use that too often.

Also Quick Draw can be used to get back onto the stage from hanging on the ledge.
Yeah I should add that part...

You did a really great job, I read it all and was very impressed. I think when Ike fights for his friends, you're one of them.
I'm his cocaine dealer, if he doesn't fight for me he loses what gives him "super armor".
 

Kalm

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LOL great answer! Don't forget he also does heroine, I deal him some from time to time. I feel sorry for the guy but he's gotta make flames come outta his sword somehow, right?
http://video.google.com/videosearch...s heroine&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv#

As for being punished for "Edge Aether", nobody as done this to me because they're too afraid to get near it. How would you go about punishing it? I guess you would wait at the edge, wait for Ike to drop off and then jump off the stage and then when Ike uses Aether you can Bair him or w/e when he grabs the sword? I knew that he had a nasty vulnerable point but I never thought it could be exploited when used in that manner.
 

Bouse

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He only has S.A. until he grabs his sword, then the other person just needs to be mildly intelligent about approaching him.
 

Shirum

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Not too much content but...

Since when was the Ike section capable of eloquence? :p
 

Bouse

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1. Tilts are staples you should already be using if you've played Brawl for more than a week.
2. On grabs, read above.
3. I believe it was Nietzsche who said
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what other men say in whole books - what other men do not say in whole books."
and I believe Shakespeare who said
"Brevity is the soul of wit..."
There you go.
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
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To write with the notion of commendation; is for the proud to idolize themselves, branding themselves onto the posterior of history; of scholasticism is for the narrow minded to reiterate nostalgic tomes, echoing the triumphs and fiasco's of the ancient world; of enlightenment is for the self-righteous to edify the masses creating a nirvana of self, and an Eden of ideology.
 

Kalm

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LOL great answer! Don't forget he also does heroine, I deal him some from time to time. I feel sorry for the guy but he's gotta make flames come outta his sword somehow, right?
http://video.google.com/videosearch...s heroine&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv#

As for being punished for "Edge Aether", nobody as done this to me because they're too afraid to get near it. How would you go about punishing it? I guess you would wait at the edge, wait for Ike to drop off and then jump off the stage and then when Ike uses Aether you can Bair him or w/e when he grabs the sword? I knew that he had a nasty vulnerable point but I never thought it could be exploited when used in that manner.
He only has S.A. until he grabs his sword, then the other person just needs to be mildly intelligent about approaching him.
Okay, please explain this to me then because it's a problem for me. Hanging from the ledge, and then dropping down and quickly using Aether to cover the area above the ledge with the sword and then grabbing the edge again OR moving forward to land on the stage if you feel it's safe enough. I have not seen anyone attempt to counter this, and I cannot find a way to approach it safely. The only methods I can find to stop it are to use an actual counter ability, or to hit it with super armor frames. Up to now the meta game for this move is to stay the heck away from the edge till Ike decides to pull himself back up on it. How do you safely kill the Edge Aether?

To write with the notion of commendation; is for the proud to idolize themselves, branding themselves onto the posterior of history; of scholasticism is for the narrow minded to reiterate nostalgic tomes, echoing the triumphs and fiasco's of the ancient world; of enlightenment is for the self-righteous to edify the masses creating a nirvana of self, and an Eden of ideology.

*automatic response no. 27*
I like your avatar.
 

Bouse

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Okay, please explain this to me then because it's a problem for me. Hanging from the ledge, and then dropping down and quickly using Aether to cover the area above the ledge with the sword and then grabbing the edge again OR moving forward to land on the stage if you feel it's safe enough. I have not seen anyone attempt to counter this, and I cannot find a way to approach it safely. The only methods I can find to stop it are to use an actual counter ability, or to hit it with super armor frames. Up to now the meta game for this move is to stay the heck away from the edge till Ike decides to pull himself back up on it. How do you safely kill the Edge Aether?
Certain characters can hit you out of it, namely those with fantastic range or as you mentioned counters. Most projectile characters can aim for the very tip of the attack, then force you off. Also you can be "grabbed" out of Aether, which I will explain.
As an example of "fantastic range" I'll use Zero Suit Samus whose side+b move can make your life Hell with this. Also the fire breaths of Charizard and Bowser can hit you on the top of your attack quite easily.
Characters that are bigger pains are the Links, Zelda, D3, Mario, Peach, and Olimar who have arcable projectiles. Regardless of your ability to hover as close to the edge as possible these characters can aim their projectiles in such a way that you can not stop them from spamming your path. I'm not sure about it but possibly the water gun effect of the F.L.U.D.D. and Squirtles neutral B attack may affect an Ike at the top of his attack. This is presumptive, not definite. Lucario and Samus can hit you with their charge shots due to their size as well.
Counter characters like Ike, Peach, Lucario, and Marth can of course just counter the peak of the attack.
"Grabbing" someone out of an Aether is something specific to a few characters:
1. D3 has massive grab range and can actually just shield grab you out of it if you go even an centimeter too high.
2. Ganonciding.
3. Bowserciding.
4. Kirbyciding.
Granted the last 3 shouldn't be a huge issue, but if they lead in lives and they get to nail you with that attack it could be a really big pain.
The vulnerable point at the top of your attack is the reason why you don't want to spam Aether during a match. Good players know this about Ike, however his primary strength is that people underestimate Ike. Using that spam once a match to scare an opponent away is one thing, using it everytime your on the ledge will cause you to lose to someone who plays offensively and takes a chance and figures out that "Hey! Attack his weakpoint for massive damage!"
 

Onomanic

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Pretty good guide. Ike can be a ***** to fight as Link (sometimes not all the time). But thats only if they are really good. With Link, I can space and rack damage up with my projectiles and than go in for the kill. But I'm pretty limited for my projectiles. My bombs and boomerang can be a bit slow but Link's zair works pretty well for countering Ike's aerials. So yeah, Ike fights for his friends.
 

Kalm

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"Hey! Attack his weakpoint for massive damage!"

That was a win quote.

Pic was win too.

Okay, I'm seeing what you're saying now. Basically each character except for just a couple has a way to effectively punish the edge aether if they're ready for it and understand it. I suppose that will mean that any smart projectile user will stand just out of range of the aether and be ready to poop bullets and arrows when the time comes. Swallowciding does seem like a nasty counter, Ganon and Bowser would have a much harder time pulling it off.

So, in the end it seems that using edge aether should just be a form of punish when the opponent is careless. Waiting there and giving your opponent to figure out what you're doing and punish it could be suicidial, and using it too much makes the mind game stale.

I think I got the gist of it. If I remember correctly the discussion was rather or not to put using edge aether in the OP. I guess that means that it isn't really effective enough to be noted. That kind of thing will have to be considered while I fight. I see that a lot of people still don't know about using quick draw to get back onto the stage to the ledge.

So, the 4 ledge mind games and techniques should be
Quick Draw
then probably Fair and Uair on the ledge
then Dair to spike from the ledge
and then edge aether

Everything after that will be either rolling, attacking, or jumping up from the ledge and using whatever ability.
 
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