How guys treat girls in a fighting game community.

[Arcansi]

Okay first of all, I apologize to Arcansi. The last comment was a rude jab by me.

Thanks, accepted.

I just think that when you buy these games, you promote sexism to some degree or form. Publishers and art designers who make this game see high sales and continue with this trend of slanting games to what they feel are their constituent consumers. I'm not stating that this justifies sexism in any degree of form. I am arguing though that games were designed to capture a community that I feel wants to escape hassles of political correctness and moral opinion. For people who ignore the sexism or stereotypes present in the games, they also have to deal with people who might endorse or buy the game because of sexism and stereotypes presented in it.

First, how do you define sexism? Do you think that it promotes women being seen as objects for sexuality or something? Do you think it sets womans rights back or something? I mean, I'm pretty sure these games have a rating so that people who play them know that's not what they're getting in real life, and what's in the game should and will stay in the game.

 

[Crooked Crow]

Treat women how you would normally be expected to treat them. Sexism on either side blows.

Not rocket science.

 

[Morin0]

There was this absolutely great article that talked about sexism in super hero comics. I can't remember the link and I wish I bookmarked it. Otherwise, I would link it here in response to the post above me. I'm sure we can relate that to this somehow, lol.

And Allegory is Acrostic?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

This is another, "That is how it is, so that is how it should be." I agree with Falcon, context shouldn't really affect anything, but it does, in TONS of different environments, and it makes life a lot harder and more complicated than it really needs to be.

Edit: I also found the same label on my video games, I had no idea.

If you believe that setting shouldn't matter, then I'm inclined to think that you are painting this as a moral issue i.e. making outlandish comments against females is fundamentally wrong and therefore cross applicable. Arguing core values though is a relative argument. We could spend all day discussing how women should be treated in x manner or to y degree in order to agree on what is fair and just. Ultimately though, that's your own opinion and I will have my own opinion.

What is more pertinent is discussing whether evoking more political correctness when it comes to female gamers is something that brings more objective benefits to online fighting communities than if we were to hold to the status quo. Frankly, we need to establish that Aris is a strawman when it comes to these situations. He's literally a personification of one of the lower tiers of what this community can turn into. If we were to approach this topic realistically to address Aris, then we would literally be attempting to distort a genre to compensate for an outlier. Practically this doesn't make any sense. You will always have outliers when it comes to any community.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I don't know if the pictures I'm finding are correct, but from what I see, isn't she a succubus, so doesn't it make flavourful sense for her to dress like that, anyway? Like, obviously it's sexually oriented, and I get that as much as the next guy, but it makes sense for her to be dressed in skimpier outfits then the rest of anyone, really.

Okay fair call. Then how about Felicia?

Felicia is 40-year-old in human years, and seven in cat years, but she still has the appearance of a 20-year-old young woman.

Dude, this is basically what this thread is talking about... Like, the intent here is just, why?

To answer your question, although I'm not sure I should respond to people acting this way, I'm not a furry. I am asexual, however.

It was a bad joke. I love furies and asexuals.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Glyph, your posts win life.

Games promote that stuff because sex sells.

 

[Johnknight1]

So yeah, those kind of jerks are people that were corrupted at a young age and either:
A) Haven't had enough practice/time to adjust to society's basics
B) Don't think the world is worth adjusting/being nice to

Unless this guy (who looks 25-ish) doesn't know girls. Society wouldn't accept this, aside from immature teenagers who don't know anyone who has been *****.

i don't see why she didn't just take a serious tone and tell him not to say that or something, she just keeps laughing it off?

Because they straight up told her "let the men talk" like a bunch of sexist pigs! Clearly you have never been bullied, especially by dozens of big, strong, scary looking men. And clearly you don't know that women in this situation surrounded by many men who are insulting them or demeaning towards women are afraid of being *****. These men clearly show no control of themselves, so why would they control themselves in terms of taking advantage of her=???

Imagine your out of shape butt surrounded by 10 Ray Lewis clones. They are using racist terms directed toward you, calling you gay, and disgustingly giving you details about how your mom is a hoe. They are slowly cornering you and getting close to you. If you do anything, they snap at you harder. You also fear, deep down inside, they will attack you. They have numbers, and they area also each much stronger than you.

Meanwhile 100 more Ray Lewis clones are watching on live stream making demeaning comments about you. They are stalking you on Twitter, doing the same things. Tell me, would you honestly talk back to 20 Ray Lewis'=??? No, because they would come at you harder. (If you don't know who Ray Lewis is, this confirms you are a total nerd)

Treat women how you would normally be expected to treat them. Sexism on either side blows.

Not rocket science.

Do this and you won't be single forever like this "Street Fighter warrior."
/thread.

 

[Morin0]

Imagine your out of shape butt surrounded by 10 Ray Lewis clones. They are using racist terms directed toward you, calling you gay, and disgustingly giving you details about how your mom is a hoe. They are slowly cornering you and getting close to you. If you do anything, they snap at you harder. You also fear, deep down inside, they will attack you. They have numbers, and they area also each much stronger than you.

Meanwhile 100 more Ray Lewis clones are watching on live stream making demeaning comments about you. They are stalking you on Twitter, doing the same things. Tell me, would you honestly talk back to 20 Ray Lewis'=??? No, because they would come at you harder. (If you don't know who Ray Lewis is, this confirms you are a total nerd)

Do this and you won't be single forever like this "Street Fighter warrior."
/thread.

Hahahahahaha.

Spoiler

I had to look up Ray Lewis : (

 

[Dre89]

Bad boys are the biggest turn off ever.

If only girls thought like that.

Then I'd never get action.

 

[Akagami]

Yeah, this guy gets it! Games are designed for DUDES and companies don't even want girls to play them! If they did, they wouldn't include that label on the front that says 'dudes only, girls may not play this game'. If fact, if you look closely at said label is goes on to say 'this game was made solely for Akagami's entertainment and anything that might interfere with that should be ignored since he is the most important person in the world'.

EDIT: Teran if you lock this thread before I've had my fun I swear to god I will come at you

there's no way you got that from what i said LOL, unless you're ******** or some ****

fighting games are actually mostly designed for dudes fyi, cause they know that mostly dudes are gonna buy that ****. it's called a target audience my *****, we aren't talking about mario party or wii sports here lmfao. sure they will want some chicks to buy it too, but i don't really think that's too high on their priority list given that there would have to be whole major changes in society's attitude in general for lots of females to be buying fighters and playing them competitively. females playing competitive games let alone fighters are in the vast minority and most likely always will be, so i don't think companies will really care too much as it wouldn't make sense. nice try with your gay over exaggurated **** though, real cute ^_^

 

[Linkshot]

Unless this guy (who looks 25-ish) doesn't know girls.

Falls under "not enough practice"

Further back and didn't grab the quote, but that article on sexism in comics (tip: Morrigan and Felicia are from comics) was on Cracked.

I'll also just throw out there for the sake of it that not all fighting game consumers focus on the sex appeal. There comes a certain level of gaming where you no longer see a character nor personality: You just see hurtboxes, hitboxes, and frames.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

there's no way you got that from what i said LOL, unless you're ******** or some ****

fighting games are actually mostly designed for dudes fyi, cause they know that mostly dudes are gonna buy that ****. it's called a target audience my *****, we aren't talking about mario party or wii sports here lmfao. sure they will want some chicks to buy it too, but i don't really think that's too high on their priority list given that there would have to be whole major changes in society's attitude in general for lots of females to be buying fighters and playing them competitively. females playing competitive games let alone fighters are in the vast minority and most likely always will be, so i don't think companies will really care too much as it wouldn't make sense. nice try with your gay over exaggurated **** though, real cute ^_^

Trust me buckaroo, you don't know anything about how marketing works. And from the looks of it, your spell check and ability to hold a coherent argument aren't very good either.

First off, fighting games are NOT designed for men. Absolutely no video game company is going to sit down and say 'okay, how are we going to alienate women from this game? I need IDEAS PEOPLE'. Because what's this?! Companies like money more than making people like Akagami feel like they matter?!

No, they build a game that they think will sell the most copies. So yes, they are going to put in attractive people of both genders. No body wants to watch two out of shape dudes limply flail at each other.

Lets talk about that whole 'girls don't matter because they're a minority' mindset you've got. Pretty easy to take that stance when you're in the majority, the only question then is: why? How would it hurt you if women played? You would have to stop making sexist jokes and comments, but hey, some day we all have to turn 16 and grow out of that. Its just life, champ. You'll get there!

 

[Jim Morrison]

No, they build a game that they think will sell the most copies. So yes, they are going to put in attractive people of both genders. No body wants to watch two out of shape dudes limply flail at each other.

Well Glyph, on that matter, it's different. Guys are pretty much all aroused by the same thing, almost all have the same sexual cues. For girls on the other hand, it's much, much harder to put in an attractive guy, because a super muscled guy with square jaw (AKA you), could be attractive to some, but is just as easily not attractive to a lot of others.

My point, it's harder to market sex to girls than to guys. So in a sense, it is still aimed more at men (also because they are already the audience into gaming, it's easier to get those to buy games than try to attract a new audience while keeping your old)

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Just because its easier to do for men doesn't mean its not done for women too. I do agree that its more focused when it comes to targeting men, but that's just (like you said) because almost all men like the same stuff.

And if a company DID follow that strategy (focus only on retaining previous customers), they'd die out. Because the wants of the masses change. And again, they are certainly not going to build a game they think will lose them potential income by excluding reasonable demographics.

 

[Evil Eye]

I dunno, man, the media keeps selling me marathon runner skinny girls to such an extent that my T&A expectations must border on deviant.

 

[Arcansi]

Okay fair call. Then how about Felicia?

I re-read your post and yeah, what your saying is true. The question is, is this bad and what part is bad about it? I mean, they have sexualized men, and a lot more males buy these games then females anyway. So what's the problem here?

I also wouldn't say they're fundamentally sexist, it's more that they make the game for the expected audience. Sexist would be more something like every female being a joke character or something equally horrible.

It was a bad joke. I love furies and asexuals.

lol XD

 

[Akagami]

Trust me buckaroo, you don't know anything about how marketing works. And from the looks of it, your spell check and ability to hold a coherent argument aren't very good either.

First off, fighting games are NOT designed for men. Absolutely no video game company is going to sit down and say 'okay, how are we going to alienate women from this game? I need IDEAS PEOPLE'. Because what's this?! Companies like money more than making people like Akagami feel like they matter?!

No, they build a game that they think will sell the most copies. So yes, they are going to put in attractive people of both genders. No body wants to watch two out of shape dudes limply flail at each other.

Lets talk about that whole 'girls don't matter because they're a minority' mindset you've got. Pretty easy to take that stance when you're in the majority, the only question then is: why? How would it hurt you if women played? You would have to stop making sexist jokes and comments, but hey, some day we all have to turn 16 and grow out of that. Its just life, champ. You'll get there!

fighters are made with males in mind and nothing you can say will change that lol. there's just not enough interest from females to warrant the companies putting much effort in to get females involved with the game. you say they want to make money, yet trying to get females involved could actually be detrimental to the company. think about it, they'd have to spend more money to change advertisement/come up with new ideas/research and in the end, it would need to be justified with enough purchases from females for the company to believe that their money was well spent (wouldn't happen). not to mention that the changes could clash with the interests of the male customers and cause a fall in the amount of males who purchase the game.

i never said it would hurt me if women played, i wouldn't give a ****. at the same time, i don't give a **** that females barely play the game now and i don't understand why people are like "omfg we need more females to play this ****!".

yes you're right about a company not only aiming to simply keep their existing audience, but in the case of fighters it hasn't really been with trying to get more of the opposite gender (females) into the community. it's been for them to expand from only the"hardcore" gamers to the more casual gamers as well.

you talk about my level of maturity yet you can't even post without trying to insult me a few times LOL. you're whack as ****.

 

[Jam Stunna]

http://shoryuken.com/2012/03/01/hurtful-speech-time-to-take-a-good-look-in-the-mirror/

Seems like SRK/EVO are taking this seriously.

 

[Akagami]

http://shoryuken.com/2012/03/01/hurtful-speech-time-to-take-a-good-look-in-the-mirror/

Seems like SRK/EVO are taking this seriously.

**** them, i can't believe they went that far. im actually pissed off like what the ****. **** evo and srk man. political correctness is something i've hated passionately for a very long time and i can't believe it's worked it's way into the fgc. so depressed right now, gonna go listen to mellowhype or something.

 

[Morin0]

Sup, Aris.

 

[john!]

**** them, i can't believe they went that far. im actually pissed off like what the ****. **** evo and srk man. political correctness is something i've hated passionately for a very long time and i can't believe it's worked it's way into the fgc. so depressed right now, gonna go listen to mellowhype or something.

there are few things i hate more than political correctness.

selfish, rude douchebags are one of those things.

 

[Akagami]

Sup, Aris.

look at the comments on the video and on the srk post. it's clearly the majority of the fgc that is against this. ugh, i wish there weren't so many white knights in the fgc nowadays -sigh-. chris crocker would be proud of all of you. at this rate these *****s are gonna be using ye olde english on stream by 2013.

 

[Akagami]

there are few things i hate more than political correctness.

selfish, rude douchebags are one of those things.

clearly you would advocate the use of ye olde english commentary by 2013 by the look of that gay sig of yours.

smash community is a lot more sensitive than the fgc anyways so it's no surprise you're all like "holy **** man this is terrible1!11!"

unlike smash, the fgc stems from arcades. back in the day you wouldn't even be able to be involved in the fgc without **** talk cause you would have to go to the arcade to play. you went in the arcade and everyone would just talk the most **** you've ever heard. if you didn't like it you just had to gtfo haha. gradually the arcades died out and console gaming took over, but the **** talk stayed there. it's something that's been there with the community from the very beginning. now that srk/evo are doing this, it's like ripping out a part of the fgc that has always been there. seems like hopefully this only applies for the major streams though, i really hope that's the case.

im salty anyways and going to bed ^_^

 

[KassandraNova]

There's nothing wrong with **** talk. :0 its just respecting boundaries ^_^
Idk I keep hearing different things about this so idk what to think anymore. <_<

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Akagami, you're closed minded. We are mad at the fact that he clearly was sexually harassing this girl
Man or woman, that is WRONG. It has nothing to do with white knights or feminism or whatever. Stop making excuses on why sexual harassment is a part of the scene and grow up.
Harassment is wrong. The end.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

clearly you would advocate the use of ye olde english commentary by 2013 by the look of that gay sig of yours.

smash community is a lot more sensitive than the fgc anyways so it's no surprise you're all like "holy **** man this is terrible1!11!"

unlike smash, the fgc stems from arcades. back in the day you wouldn't even be able to be involved in the fgc without **** talk cause you would have to go to the arcade to play. you went in the arcade and everyone would just talk the most **** you've ever heard. if you didn't like it you just had to gtfo haha. gradually the arcades died out and console gaming took over, but the **** talk stayed there. it's something that's been there with the community from the very beginning. now that srk/evo are doing this, it's like ripping out a part of the fgc that has always been there. seems like hopefully this only applies for the major streams though, i really hope that's the case.

im salty anyways and going to bed ^_^

Talking **** and sexual harassment are different matters.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

And they call the smash community immature. GGs srk.

But seriously, don't think this incident represents some sort of majority or large part of the scene. Most(if not all) people at the tournaments I've been too are not like this.

So true. People complain about our community yet I'd contend that the more 'hardcore' fighting game communities contain the hostile c*nts. This Aris guy is a complete douchebag.

Additionally I don't believe that this sort of conduct contributes to the lack of females within competitive video game communities. This is just one extreme example of downright lewd, filthy and lecherous behaviour. Of course I think this post was enlightening in that it shows the harms or potential harms of what extreme stupidity can do when it comes to dealing with the female gamers.

 

[professor mgw]

Additionally I don't believe that this sort of conduct contributes to the lack of females within competitive video game communities. This is just one extreme example of downright lewd, filthy and lecherous behaviour. Of course I think this post was enlightening in that it shows the harms or potential harms of what extreme stupidity can do when it comes to dealing with the female gamers.

This. This convo is over lol.

 

[john!]

Akagami, you're closed minded.

closed minded?

no, he's a ****ing ******. probably came here straight from SRK and discovered that smash is too hard for him. is that why you're salty akagami?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

When dealing with issues like this, it seems many or some people tend to round up a type of people and assume everyone of that type is the same.

The smash community should never be thought of as a collective and unified group in anything.

 

[Tesh]

Talking **** and sexual harassment are different matters.

What? No these are the same things. Every time I pull off a 3 stock in tournament I make sure to comment about the other guy's ***. I also lean over and smell em during the post game GGs/Good read talk. Women are just so weak they can't handle my sexy man talk the way a man can. Back in the day when you would walk into an arcade with all your tokens and quarters and ****, first guy you see when you walk in the door is tryna grab your *** or check out your junk. Its part of the community!

Man I hate these weak women always crying, white knights, captain save-a-hoe etc. Go back to playing cooking mama and wii fit.

 

[Morin0]

closed minded?

no, he's a ****ing ******. probably came here straight from SRK and discovered that smash is too hard for him. is that why you're salty akagami?

Haven't you heard? That's actually Aris

 

[Akagami]

closed minded?

no, he's a ****ing ******. probably came here straight from SRK and discovered that smash is too hard for him. is that why you're salty akagami?

i play street fighter competitively at tournaments, so no i'm never going to see smash as too hard lol. i did start melee yesterday though and it was great. there was actually a time i was really good at brawl too, but that was years ago. feel free to watch my combo video from back then :] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzFsquu3kaU

like i said in my original post, what aris did wasn't cool and it was going over the line, even i can see that haha. what i do think though is that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. the commentators started having a laugh about the incident, big ****ing deal. smash community uses the word "****" all the time, so why do you think what those commentators said is so bad? they just made jokes about the whole situation, as they obviously thought that people were taking it far too seriously (which they were).

sexist jokes on the stream shouldn't be punished like this. im black, ive heard a ton of racist jokes on stream myself yet i laugh at that **** lol. why should i be offended? it's never about just the words said but the intent & context behind them. the commentators were shouting about verbal harassment and sexual harassment during hype moments in the match, just like smash commentators will say **** during hype moments. pretty much the same thing right?

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

No.
Sexual harassment =/= smack talk. That's why it's a big deal. Harassment isn't a joke, no matter how many people say its okay or laugh at it.
And using the word **** is iffy as well. Why that word, honestly? That's terrible that that word has been adapted to gaming.

 

[Marc]

As I said before, I don't think words like that are tossed around as much anymore and especially big livestreams have to watch their language in order to even be featured on SWF. Of course, the smash crowd is generally younger (and a lot more goes on AiB...), but I've yet to see harassment targeted at specific minorities. In fact, the worst smack talk I've heard lately was Nicole bashing dabuz, lol (well deserved, Olimar is the devil).

Either way this is all opinions. Doesn't really matter what individuals think about where the line is for livestreams etc, it's really up to the companies sponsoring/featuring them. Staff on here is not tolerant of it, looks like the FGC powers that be are going to deal with it too. *shrug*

 

[Kewkky]

IMO, words like gay/****/whatever and trash talking is just dumb. The majority of it is either good fun between friends or rivalries, or someone salty that they lost/overconfident because they won. Only rarely is it because the person playing/talking is an actual douche and just does it to demean someone else. It doesn't make it right, but there's lots of things in this world that are inherently wrong, yet done a lot between friends/communities/family members/whatever because it's all in good fun.

Concerning racism... People preach against this behavior hre and there, but if they do, they might as well preach against stereotyping children as well, or calling others old because they are "past their time", or calling them losers because they keep failing to succeed, or calling them fat because they are a few pounds heavier than you... Don't these other terms matter (as we'll as the others I've forgotten to mention), or is it just homophobia, racism and sexism used in a playful manner that matter? They are the most used, sure, but does that make them more or less important? That's how I see everything. I'm latin american, born and raised in PR, so I'll get my share of racism in life eventually. Does that mean I'll care? Hell no, I'm better than that, one (or a group of) person(s) won't make my life harder simply because they want to trash-talk in a tournament by pointing out my race and/or gender.

About the words, **** is used because it refers to something extreme that leaves the victim suffering both physically and mentally, using "decapitate", "destroy", "kill", "assault", "dismember", "******", "mug", "terminal illness", "shell-shock", or anything for that matter that might have in common with the afore-mentioned words is just as bad as saying "****", people just choose to use that word out of tradition, it's been used for as long as I can remember in any gaming community, not even fighting game communities only. It doesn't make it okay, but trying to get rid of it because you can't handle a four-letter word because it may hurt someone's feelings somewhere is just as dumb as getting rid of the word "kill". Hey, maybe someone's family member/friend was killed by someone, how insensitive!


I wanted to write something else, but I'm on my phone and that took me like half an hour to write, and I forgot what the third thing was. Oh well, I'll just drop my two cents in here now.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Now that this has died down, certain points I made in this thread was me playing Devil's Advocate.

As for what my stance is, I think that focusing on Aris himself is something that doesn't really tackle the issue of why people may be encouraged to act in such a manner. I think that his discussion of ethics is important, not because most people would use that to point to him being morally diseased, but because there is some reasoning that Aris is using to justify his actions due to how he interprets such a community.

I think that how future venues conduct themselves should be an issue independent of the Aris issue due to the fact that I find that Aris himself is an outlier situation. Aside from just the bad egg, scum of the earth accusations, the situation of being on Cross Assault itself with a coach and a monetary incentive are two combinations that you don't normally see in tandem when it comes to a traditional gaming tournament.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

What? No these are the same things. Every time I pull off a 3 stock in tournament I make sure to comment about the other guy's ***. I also lean over and smell em during the post game GGs/Good read talk. Women are just so weak they can't handle my sexy man talk the way a man can. Back in the day when you would walk into an arcade with all your tokens and quarters and ****, first guy you see when you walk in the door is tryna grab your *** or check out your junk. Its part of the community!

Man I hate these weak women always crying, white knights, captain save-a-hoe etc. Go back to playing cooking mama and wii fit.

Most of us don't exactly act like a queer/****tard when talking ****.

 

[Tesh]

If you don't support sexually harassing other players, then you should just gtfo the community. We don't need any captain save-a-bro wussy gay noobs in this community.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

If you don't support sexually harassing other players

Aris?

One is not being a ***** because you don't want to smell some guy's ***.

And I thought humans had no canine genes....