How do I do a Barrel Roll? ~ Fox Q&A (Check the OP)

[chaos_Leader]

Which control configuration is better for SHTL?

L(Jump)/B(Special) or X(Jump)/Y(Special)

I personally use Y(Jump)/X(special) to pull-off the SHTL, as well as JC shine, but if you're willing to put the time in to learn L as a jump button, it can open up a lot of possibilities beyond simply SHTL.

 

[*CT*]

My secondary is ROB.Hardly anyone I face has experience against a well played ROB. He's always been my ace in the hole in case Fox couldn't take the heat.But if ROB fails I have Marth

I play S tingers all the time x.x he punishes me a lot in the hole.
I'm not sure if S tingers is "Well played" though.

@Chaos- I'm having a lot of troubling learning how to SHTL, I tried Y Jump/ X Special but I still couldn't do it/ found it harder. Dunno but I had Z Attack/ X Grab for a long time so its messing with me. Do you have any other tips?

 

[Kuares]

Use both your hands, seriously.

Set the controller down on your knee, move your left hand to the B button, right hand to the Y. Then short hop triple laser like it were a Mario party game.

 

[Chef Fox]

So the Skid Canceling Shield Grab seems to be pretty good on Fox, but does he have any amazing uses for it? Are there any cool new Fox combos that we can do with it? I was thinking Shine -> SCSG might be a true combo if you buffer a dash from the Shine, or maybe there is some other use. Anyone got anything good?

 

[ccst]

Hello Fox boards; just a question. What do you think about the R.O.B. MU and why? Thanks in advance!

 

[Conviction]

Go to the rob mu thread for that

 

[zero212]

another fox main here with a question does anyone know some good setups for the ftilt lock or nair lock? (prefferbly setups without the use of platforms)

 

[Conviction]

unfortunately none that will work on a person who knows what teching is.

 

[Chef Fox]

TKD what is your advice for getting up from the ledge safely when an opponent is pressuring you? What do you do about the landing lag glitch?

 

[Kuares]

What I've seen from vids(and know personally) it's usually a mix-up between Ledge drop->Jump->Fair, Ld->Jump->Illusion onstage or Ld->Jump Illusion to ledge regrab->(repeat). Depending on how close the opponent is you can Ld->Jump->Upair.

Shines can stall for time if it's a charged smash or something but usually you don't do that.

You can't get rid of the landing glitch, you can either land with a recovery(I like Illusion cancel) or you could eat regular aerial landing lag(Nair has the shortest lag and anything autocancel'd give you lag).

 

[Chef Fox]

Thank you Kuares, and do you know if Fox's cancelled Illusion has less lag than regular Illusion? It sort of feels like that sometimes but I'm not too sure.

 

[ccst]

Go to the rob mu thread for that

Okay thanks.

 

[RPK]

It probably feels that way because of Fox just dropping straight down, inaddition to landing lag afterwards. Though with the cancel, he keeps traveling, so him moving probably makes it feel like there isnt as much lag? -shrugs- It might just look like it, but the landing lag is probably still the same.

 

[Rizk18]

Does jab jab into buffered shine work? Is it legit?

 

[Conviction]

@Kaures: To add on you can also use the jump (ledge option) and cancel the animation into shine for a way to get back on stage and cancel that dumb**** lag.

@Chef Fox: It's the same but safer because you are sliding instead of being stationary.

@Rizk: It's a frametrap, so basically yes. Some people can break out of it if they know their options and react for that specific option fast enough (or just have stupid as hell SDI). Refer to Uzi's thread for that info homes.

Ok my turn for a question? More of an innovative and proactive one. Who is starting to use Uair not only as a juggler but as an anti-aerial? When people try to come in from a 45 degreeish angle dash Sh Uairing I find very useful for an interrupt/cancel.

Pros: Less air time than Fair*
No landing lag
Covers head and beats most aerials (ex. Oli's dair or any of Snake's aerials)
Can be use as to bait airdodges

Cons: Less air time than Fair*
Isn't a sex kick like Nair
leaves sides open
Doesn't do as much damage as Fair

Any one find any other uses?

2nd question: How do you guys juggle as Fox?
3rd question: How do you guys integrate and vary your grabs as Fox?

 

[Kuares]

I've used it as an anti-air for quite a while. You AC uair, and if they airdodge, you can follow it up with an uptilt when they land. Though if you time it I think you can upsmash them.


2nd: I juggle in an odd sense. when my opponent is at mid distance above the stage I threaten a Uair(full hoping towards them but not close enough to be hit by anything)

Depending on how they respond I'll either fast fall->2nd Jump Rising fair if they attack or fall back to the ground if they airdodge and then Shorthop Uair perhaps getting a hit or another airdodge(which then leads to uptilt/smash)


3rd: I should play a more Grab based game but usually I'm all about reading landings, when I should be boost pivot grabbing I'm reverse up smashing. Most of my grabs come from either AC bair's/Drills to grab or shield grabs.


There's also Uptilt lock grabs, at some point I think the opponent can get out of the lock, I stop up tilting, shield, they do something, and then I grab.



There's probably more stuff than this. Wait to see what other people say.

 

[Rizk18]

Does a Fox U-tilt buffered beat Peach's buffered Nair? They both hit on frame 3, so if I dair her into a U-tilt, will it clank with her or beat it? Which has more priority?

 

[C.R.Z]

Does a Fox U-tilt buffered beat Peach's buffered Nair? They both hit on frame 3, so if I dair her into a U-tilt, will it clank with her or beat it? Which has more priority?

jumping is 4 frames so uptilt will come out first unless shes in the air.if the dair hits correctly, theres nothing any character can do.

 

[Scinn]

can someone please tell me what "buffered" means.

 

[Kuares]

To help with online(though it's still offline), Brawl has a 10 frame window for when you put in an input to be done the next possible frame.

Say you want to Dair to upsmash with Fox, you put in the input for the smash(Up C-Stick) during the landing lag of the drill and then the upsmash will come out as soon as possible. This works for other things as well such as dashes, grabs, jumps, ect.

 

[izic]

I'm having some trouble fighting Peach, Lucas, Wario, and Diddy. What can I do to put up a better fight against these characters?

 

[Scinn]

For starters you could go to the fox video thread, post vids of you fighting them and have one of the fox players critique you, to see what you need to do to improve against each character.

other than that advice idk I'm not to good with the matchups X_X

 

[izic]

Good idea, I've been meaning to do that. I'll post some later today or maybe sometime next week.

 

[MK26]

wow. the fox user guide is awesome.

is there any particular way to guarantee followups out of dair? dunno if im doing something wrong but i find that some of the time my opponent is able to powershield my followups and other times i get combos out of them. could the fact that i fastfall dair be the problem, or is it just based on how low to the ground i am when the final hitbox connects?

 

[Kuares]

Frame Data

Dair has 12 frames of landing lag. There's a 2 frame window in between hits. So they atleast 12-14 +start-up for your next move to recover and put up their shield/whatever.

I don't believe it has anything to do your fast falling, more to do with percent. My numbers aren't exacts and it's likely character dependant so don't quote me, 0-10% nothing other than grab will work, 10-40% uptilt should start working. At high percents, dair puts characters on the ground, this's the point where up smash is guaranteed.

There's always people's DI that could be stopping follow ups. At which point, sour-spot Bair is a good option.

 

[MK26]

alright, thanks

the frame data is intersting to know

 

[M@v]

You guys change your controls at all for shtl?

 

[Conviction]

Not me .

 

[M@v]

Yeah. I ask because my fingers are pretty slow, and the only way ive been able to get shtl to work on normal controls is to move my left thumb over to the b button, jump then shoot with my left thumb.

 

[Rizk18]

Lol that's a bad way to do it. I use Wii-mote sideways and what I do is change the 'A' button to jump and that way I can do it. If I were to use GCC, I would change the Up D-pad to jump and have my left thumb on the D-pad and right thumb on the B button. It works great for me but I don't think it's for everybody.

 

[M@v]

I realize its a bad way to do it; its why i asked. Setting uptaunt to jump works the best for me.

 

[Rizk18]

Try using the D-pad method I suggested and tell me how it works out.

 

[MK26]

try changing jump to a shoulder button?

 

[Kuares]

Only problem I'd see with that is accidental full jumps, I know I tried it that way and ended up reverting back to Y jump. Jump to L/R is good for full jump lasering though.

Rizk, D-pad idea is pretty good. I added your quote to the OP.

 

[Rizk18]

Okay thanks Works legit for me when I use GCC.

 

[Kuares]

Because I want to make this a Faq so people don't keep asking the same question.

If that's what the y "Why" means ._.

Dang edits.

 

[Rizk18]

Haha, the (y) means thumbs up! LOL I thought it would show up as a thumbs up like on Facebook or Xat chats xD. But yeah adding it is a good idea so people won't ask the same question over and over.

 

[Conviction]

My next-to-kin, I have another question. (I always have good one after tournies it seems)

How do you punish people for dashing at you? What's the most effective way? Kadaj was showing me this at yesterdays tourney. Where he would stand in the safe zone of MK and it would make the MK player react by dashing and during that open window where you can't shield (the foxtrot), Kadaj would punish their dash. Best one was when he tipper Fsmashed the MK.

Me and Kadaj thought of walking grab, and one of my videos I have uploading I jabbed them as they were in that open window. Where can Dair, Usmash, etc. be applied to this opening?

Thanks in advcnce my next-to-kin. Anyone else feel free to answer if you wish.

Posting this here because it fits here too.

 

[M@v]

Tried a few combinations out, and the uptaunt to jump works the best for me.

R to jump was the next best, but it was still awkward feeling with my thumb and pointer have to move slightly out of my neutral position.


L to jump actually was the best, but I've used L as my shield/dodge button since the day brawl was released, and It completely messed up all my shield/dodge/jcupsmash/oos timing when I made shield the R trigger, so that isn't happening.

 

[MK26]

imho in the long run i think everybody should change jump to a shoulder button (i guess for most gcc guys z is your best option) and grab to a face button
copypasta from controller thread

Tap Jump: off
R-stick: Smash
B: Attack
Y: Special
X: Grab
L: Shield
Zr: Jump

The vast majority of things I need to do are covered by the above. My index fingers naturally rest on L and Zr, and I see that changing jump to a shoulder button isn't all that unpopular. Moving A+B to B+Y emulates the N64/GC controller layouts. X swapped to Grab because there's no better place to put it. It's a slightly roundabout way of doing it, but pressing UP+B+Zr while holding shield gives me Up-B OOS, which isn't possible simply using defaults+tj off.

Zl: Grab
R: Attack
D-pad: Taunts
A: Shield

Zl is an alternate Grab so I can do instant throws and boost grabbing (x + cstick doesnt really work). Neither grab position is ideal, but having two sub-optimal positions is better than just one. R for attack allows me to DACUS by holding the L-stick sideways (run), smashing down on the R-stick (dash attack), and rolling the L-stick up while pressing R (Up-Smash). It's definitely much harder with the defaults, if not impossible. A can be anything but taunt, and is now shield, because the only time i ever touch this button is when mashing out of grabs. I have no love for that button.