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Houston Smash Ultimate Thread
- Thread starter Xyro77
- Start date
RT
Smash Hero
...wait, are you actually lecturing us about not knowing about the game when you don't even own the game?
Better yet, how would YOU even know what top level play is when you haven't played more than maybe a few hours and cry WAAAAAAAH, SAMUS IS BAD and then make comparisons to BRAWL. And you are making so many assumptions based on VIDS.
This is the worst bait I have ever seen.
Go home, you are drunk.
Better yet, how would YOU even know what top level play is when you haven't played more than maybe a few hours and cry WAAAAAAAH, SAMUS IS BAD and then make comparisons to BRAWL. And you are making so many assumptions based on VIDS.
This is the worst bait I have ever seen.
Go home, you are drunk.
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Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Did I say I owned the game? No.
Did I say I've seen high level play offline? No.
I didn't say Samus is bad. She is only bad in the projectile area.
The difference between us is that You guys want to ban stuff off of incorrect assumptions (walk offs) using brawl thinking. It's ok to compare to brawl but not to assume the new game is like brawl.
Nice try though.
But I'm not gonna ban anything this earlier and especially not gonna ban anything this early from people who literally think falco isn't Nerfed or projectiles are still good as brawl....etc.
Did I say I've seen high level play offline? No.
I didn't say Samus is bad. She is only bad in the projectile area.
The difference between us is that You guys want to ban stuff off of incorrect assumptions (walk offs) using brawl thinking. It's ok to compare to brawl but not to assume the new game is like brawl.
Nice try though.
But I'm not gonna ban anything this earlier and especially not gonna ban anything this early from people who literally think falco isn't Nerfed or projectiles are still good as brawl....etc.
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Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
the only thing I'm even considering is the gw+pika thing. I need to find a way around banning it.
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RT
Smash Hero
Then why are you trying to make us look dumb, when we are giving opinions based on ACTUAL GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE?
If you think you know something secret, please do share. I am interested what insight you have based on your limited gameplay experience.
And please, we haven't seen high level play. Please try playing Trela's Shulk and saying that. He is doing stuff with that god character no on else has figured out yet, the same character that "pros" said is low tier. You're almost as short sighted as them.
As far as Pika+GW, just prohibit them from being on the same team. Short and simple.
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Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
I'm not making you guys look dumb. Yall do that on your own.
And again, until results are acquired, Trela (or anyone else) have proved nothing. Example: do you REALLY think that gw+pika thing was done on the fly mid tournament? No, it was planned and practiced. Yeah I'm sure those dudes thought/said "it's broken" but It took an official offline tournament to see how quickly something turned out to be stupidly broken/true.
It's better to test things based off of
Vids to prove its validity than to ban things based off of vids or theory crafting.
And again, until results are acquired, Trela (or anyone else) have proved nothing. Example: do you REALLY think that gw+pika thing was done on the fly mid tournament? No, it was planned and practiced. Yeah I'm sure those dudes thought/said "it's broken" but It took an official offline tournament to see how quickly something turned out to be stupidly broken/true.
It's better to test things based off of
Vids to prove its validity than to ban things based off of vids or theory crafting.
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Haptic
Smash Journeyman
Falco isn't buffed or nerfed, he's changed. His projectile game is worse and his chain grabs were removed, but his close-quarters game is improved by quite a bit, or so I've heard (haven't played much of him myself). A lot of characters are like this. Dedede is still a monster even though his chain grabs were removed.
On a more general level, I think there could be less name-calling and such in this thread. Can't we have civil discussions about the game without stooping to this kind of personal bashing? It's honestly turning me off from entering the discussion, and I can only imagine what it looks like to newer Houston players who haven't met you all in person.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Spoilers: anybody calling any character "low tier" other than Ganon is stupid. The game hasn't been out 2 months
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Haptic, if people judge each other OFFLINE by words typed on an ONLINE video game forum, then they need to fix that personal problem before they decide going to an offline event cause they are going to be pretty lonely in a room full of decent people.
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RT
Smash Hero
Yeah, this is normally how it goes. Xyro calls us dumb, we call him dumb, then when we meet in person, it's all laughter and fun, followed by dinner.
We're not mean people in person. Well maybe Xyro is.
WHAT A JERK.
We're not mean people in person. Well maybe Xyro is.
WHAT A JERK.
gamma1
Smash Journeyman
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
I'll agree to both of them.
1. Offline, we are all super nice to each other. Though me and Jerm and RT argue online, I must admit we laugh super hard (though with RT I've never seen Him laugh/smile or even hint at loving life) when we are near each other. It's magic.
2. I am 110% jerk who is always in Super Dikc mode. I only love 3 things: green lesbians, lesbians and green.
1. Offline, we are all super nice to each other. Though me and Jerm and RT argue online, I must admit we laugh super hard (though with RT I've never seen Him laugh/smile or even hint at loving life) when we are near each other. It's magic.
2. I am 110% jerk who is always in Super Dikc mode. I only love 3 things: green lesbians, lesbians and green.
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Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
General Gameplay Rules
3 Stocks
7 Minute Time Limit
Items set to "Off" and "None"
Equipment is banned
Custom moves are legal
Pause set to "Off"
The act of stalling is banned: stalling is intentionally making the game unplayable: Such as becoming invisible, continuing infinites, chain grabs, or uninterruptible moves past 300%, and reaching a position that your opponent can never reach you.
Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.
In the event of a match going to time, the winner will be determined by who has less percent (stock difference still takes priority but will be shown in the results screen).
If the match ends with both players dying at the same time (either coincidentally or via suicide move) or if time ran out with both players at equal percent, a 3 stock 7 minute rematch will be played on the same stage.
Modified Rules for Doubles
Team Attack set to "On"
Life stealing is allowed.
A team consisting of Mr Game&Watch and Pikachu is banned.
Set Procedure
Player Priority is determined if it cannot be agreed on. (See below for details)
Each Team selects one controller port to use for each Player. Skip this step for the 3ds version.
Each Team selects one character for each Player. A double blind pick may be called by any player.
The first game is played on a Stage selected from the Starter Stage List either by mutual consent or through the Stage Striking Method (see “Determining Player Priority” below) where each player takes turns striking one stage until one is left.
The first match is played.
The team that lost the previous match may opt to re-pick controller ports (with themselves picking first). Skip this step for the 3ds version.
The Team (player) that won the previous match may announce one "Stage Ban" if they have not already done so in this set.
The Team that lost the previous match announces the stage for the next match from either the Starter or the Counterpick Stage List. Any Stage named as a "Stage Ban" by the either Team may not be selected. No Stage may be used by a Team that has already won on that Stage in this set.
The Team that won the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
The Team that lost the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
The next match is played.
Repeat steps 6-11 for all proceeding matches.
Determining Player Priority
If there is a dispute in controller port selection or initiating Stage Strike, use the following method:
Teams will use a random method such as Rock-Paper-Scissors, Coin Flip, or Game and Watch Judgment, where the winner selects either first choice in port selection or first choice in stage striking. Whichever team does not receive first choice in port selection will be compensated with first choice in stage striking.
Note: In Doubles, port selection is ordered 1-2-2-1 fashion (with Team-1 having first choice in controller slot select, Team-2 having both second and third choice, and the final slot going to Team-1).
Stages
Battle Field=Starter
Final Destination=Starter
Yoshi Island Brawl=Starter
Jungle Japes=Counter Pick
Brinstar=Counter Pick
Arena Ferox=Counter Pick
Prism Tower=Counter Pick
Conduct Rules
Resolving Pool Ties
In the event two or more players are tied at the conclusion of a round of pools at a Unity Ruleset tournament, the following process will be done:
Players will be compared with each other on various criteria in this ordered precedence:
If players are still tied on a step, you move down to the next one. For instance, if Player A and B both go 3-2 in sets in a round of pools, you will then proceed to the Head to Head step (who won the set between those players). Whoever won vs the other will proceed at the top of the tie.
If Head to Head (the result of the set between the players in question) can not decide a tie, then you would move down to the Wins step. This may occur in a three way tie where all three players defeated each other (however note that if one person in a three way tie defeats both other players, then the Head to Head comparison will be used).
If the tie breaker reaches all the way to the One Game Rematch step, this game will play out similar to the first game of any set (though doing best of one), where users will stage strike for the stage, and may double blind characters.
If at any point a tie of three or more players is partially resolved, still leaving two or more players tied, the tie between the remaining players will be decided by starting the tie breaker process over for them. For instance, if in a three way tie in the Wins step, one player has six wins while the others have 5, the player with 6 wins will be the top of the 3. The remaining two players will start back at Sets Wins to determine who is higher between the two instead of proceeding onto the Losses step right away.
•These rules are subject to change leading up to the event date and/or on the day of the event. The Tournament Organizer reserves the right to remove you from the venue at his discretion for any reason.
•The Tournament Organizer and his assistants, and any persons helping run the event may not be held liable for any lost, stolen, or damaged goods during this event. Nor will the Tournament Organizer, the venue, its owners, affiliates, employees, members, sponsors, or volunteers be held liable or responsible for any injury or harm that may befall a person during the course of this event. By entering the venue during the posted date you are displaying your agreement with this policy.
3 Stocks
7 Minute Time Limit
Items set to "Off" and "None"
Equipment is banned
Custom moves are legal
Pause set to "Off"
The act of stalling is banned: stalling is intentionally making the game unplayable: Such as becoming invisible, continuing infinites, chain grabs, or uninterruptible moves past 300%, and reaching a position that your opponent can never reach you.
Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.
In the event of a match going to time, the winner will be determined by who has less percent (stock difference still takes priority but will be shown in the results screen).
If the match ends with both players dying at the same time (either coincidentally or via suicide move) or if time ran out with both players at equal percent, a 3 stock 7 minute rematch will be played on the same stage.
Modified Rules for Doubles
Team Attack set to "On"
Life stealing is allowed.
A team consisting of Mr Game&Watch and Pikachu is banned.
Set Procedure
Player Priority is determined if it cannot be agreed on. (See below for details)
Each Team selects one controller port to use for each Player. Skip this step for the 3ds version.
Each Team selects one character for each Player. A double blind pick may be called by any player.
The first game is played on a Stage selected from the Starter Stage List either by mutual consent or through the Stage Striking Method (see “Determining Player Priority” below) where each player takes turns striking one stage until one is left.
The first match is played.
The team that lost the previous match may opt to re-pick controller ports (with themselves picking first). Skip this step for the 3ds version.
The Team (player) that won the previous match may announce one "Stage Ban" if they have not already done so in this set.
The Team that lost the previous match announces the stage for the next match from either the Starter or the Counterpick Stage List. Any Stage named as a "Stage Ban" by the either Team may not be selected. No Stage may be used by a Team that has already won on that Stage in this set.
The Team that won the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
The Team that lost the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
The next match is played.
Repeat steps 6-11 for all proceeding matches.
Determining Player Priority
If there is a dispute in controller port selection or initiating Stage Strike, use the following method:
Teams will use a random method such as Rock-Paper-Scissors, Coin Flip, or Game and Watch Judgment, where the winner selects either first choice in port selection or first choice in stage striking. Whichever team does not receive first choice in port selection will be compensated with first choice in stage striking.
Note: In Doubles, port selection is ordered 1-2-2-1 fashion (with Team-1 having first choice in controller slot select, Team-2 having both second and third choice, and the final slot going to Team-1).
Stages
Battle Field=Starter
Final Destination=Starter
Yoshi Island Brawl=Starter
Jungle Japes=Counter Pick
Brinstar=Counter Pick
Arena Ferox=Counter Pick
Prism Tower=Counter Pick
Conduct Rules
- BYOC (Bring your own controller): Players are expected to bring their own controller and be prepared for every tournament set.
- In the event pause is left on accidentally and is pressed, immediately call over the TO. Based upon their judgment, the situation will be resolved. If your situation is neutral [players are not in combat], the match will be resumed as if the pause had not occurred.
- During gameplay, any coaching parties must remain a finite distance determined by the TO away from the players in order to give players equal access to all coached information. Ear-side coaching is prohibited during games, but acceptable between games. Failure to adhere to this will lead to punishment at the TO's discretion, which could include the coach's removal from the venue or a call to replay the game that the coaching interfered with.
- Players who use the Wii Remote must take the batteries out of the Wii Remote when not playing. If the Wii Remote is still synced up to a Wii with the batteries in, you could unintentionally disrupt a match. If problems persist, a DQ may happen. If any synced controller disrupts gameplay for any match, a DQ may be ussued.
- You are responsible for your own controller and name tag. Any malfunctions or errors that occur are your responsibility (including battery issues with a Wii Remote), so bring an extra controller if possible and always check to make sure you're using the correct settings BEFORE a match is played. Both parties need to agree if a match is to be paused or restarted because of these problems.
5A. WiiU tablet is banned.
5B. A charger cable for a 3DS will not be provided by the TO. It is your responsibility to bring one. - Intentional forfeiting, match fixing, splitting, and any other forms of bracket manipulation are not allowed and punishable by the TO.
- No substitutions are allowed for singles or doubles.
- DQ Rule: Arriving too late for a match will result in a DQ. Player(s) will have 5 minutes to show up before a loss of the first match. 5 more minutes results in a loss of the set. For doubles, both players on a team need to be present in order to play.
- The tournament organizer has the right to save/record any tournament match if possible and has the right to upload said match.
- Regarding textures and other game hacks:
- Players may request that any texture, stage, or other hacks be disabled during a tournament set. If this is unable to be done, they may switch to a different setup if available.
- It is recommended that players do not use intrusive texture and stage hacks.
- Players are not allowed to use any game altering hacks. If someone is caught setting up a system they brought with game altering hacks enabled can face punishment at the TO's discretion.
- Disrupting your opponent physically or intending to disrupt their play (through something such as screaming in a player's ear) will result in a warning. Repeated action will result in disqualification from the tournament and possibly ejection from the venue. Observers who physically disrupt players are to be dealt with as the Tournament Organizer sees fit. Disqualification is recommended if possible, and ejection from the venue is also a punishment.
Resolving Pool Ties
In the event two or more players are tied at the conclusion of a round of pools at a Unity Ruleset tournament, the following process will be done:
Players will be compared with each other on various criteria in this ordered precedence:
- Set Wins
- Head to Head
- Wins
- Losses
- One Game Rematch
If players are still tied on a step, you move down to the next one. For instance, if Player A and B both go 3-2 in sets in a round of pools, you will then proceed to the Head to Head step (who won the set between those players). Whoever won vs the other will proceed at the top of the tie.
If Head to Head (the result of the set between the players in question) can not decide a tie, then you would move down to the Wins step. This may occur in a three way tie where all three players defeated each other (however note that if one person in a three way tie defeats both other players, then the Head to Head comparison will be used).
If the tie breaker reaches all the way to the One Game Rematch step, this game will play out similar to the first game of any set (though doing best of one), where users will stage strike for the stage, and may double blind characters.
If at any point a tie of three or more players is partially resolved, still leaving two or more players tied, the tie between the remaining players will be decided by starting the tie breaker process over for them. For instance, if in a three way tie in the Wins step, one player has six wins while the others have 5, the player with 6 wins will be the top of the 3. The remaining two players will start back at Sets Wins to determine who is higher between the two instead of proceeding onto the Losses step right away.
•These rules are subject to change leading up to the event date and/or on the day of the event. The Tournament Organizer reserves the right to remove you from the venue at his discretion for any reason.
•The Tournament Organizer and his assistants, and any persons helping run the event may not be held liable for any lost, stolen, or damaged goods during this event. Nor will the Tournament Organizer, the venue, its owners, affiliates, employees, members, sponsors, or volunteers be held liable or responsible for any injury or harm that may befall a person during the course of this event. By entering the venue during the posted date you are displaying your agreement with this policy.
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Haptic
Smash Journeyman
That's why I said "I can only imagine what it looks like to newer Houston players who haven't met you all in person." I know you are all great people in reality, I just don't want anyone to be scared off because it seems like one long heated argument in here. But maybe I'm being too much of a WIMP.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
am i missing anything on the rules? i did copy paste from previous rules and edited in smash 4 stuff. if nothing is mentioned by midnite, these will be the official rules of TGC.
i left in rules things about texture hacks and stuff like that because i am 100% sure we will have those things in less than a year from now.
i left in rules things about texture hacks and stuff like that because i am 100% sure we will have those things in less than a year from now.
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Haptic
Smash Journeyman
RT
Smash Hero
I don't think port priority matters now because of no grab armor. This could change if something else is discovered that relates to it. I think you always spawn next to your partner in dubs, right?
Colorblind might not even be needed anymore since you're outlined in a very strong aura when you play dubs. I'm sure someone wants to play puke green Charizard on red team.
Colorblind might not even be needed anymore since you're outlined in a very strong aura when you play dubs. I'm sure someone wants to play puke green Charizard on red team.
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AvoiD
Smash Lord
Explain the story RT. I haven't been involved enough in the scene to know.
Anyone having a fest this weekend or smashing together?
Anyone having a fest this weekend or smashing together?
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
the
great
MARTH
LEARN ABOUT THE LEGEND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzZvR6CouV4
AND THE SEQUEL TO THE LEGEND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0opevUCYpWg
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Yeah Im gonna make the switch once I post these rules.
Sync.
Smash Champion
I'm okay with semi walk offs like Delfino and Siege. I'm saying stages that are ALWAYS walkoffs. Anyway, rule set is posted and it looks good. I'm like two for singles three for doubles but I'm proud of Allan's decision making as usual. I guess gotta practice running with Greninja on Ferox.
Also, Allan projectiles are REALLY good this game. So what if you're taking 1% in the blast zone (or if you're really good you won't take any damage by spacing yourself correctly) you're still gaining percent lead by camping back there with the option to one hit kill with back throw if someone approaches. It's not based off of Brawl that I'm drawing this knowledge either. It's based on understanding optimized competitive play and the fundamentals of smash. Death is just a shield grab away for you poor souls.
Also we have experienced top level play already. It doesn't take tournament results to know Razer, Trela, Jerm etc are better than almost everyone. Let's not play dumb
Also, Allan projectiles are REALLY good this game. So what if you're taking 1% in the blast zone (or if you're really good you won't take any damage by spacing yourself correctly) you're still gaining percent lead by camping back there with the option to one hit kill with back throw if someone approaches. It's not based off of Brawl that I'm drawing this knowledge either. It's based on understanding optimized competitive play and the fundamentals of smash. Death is just a shield grab away for you poor souls.
Also we have experienced top level play already. It doesn't take tournament results to know Razer, Trela, Jerm etc are better than almost everyone. Let's not play dumb
AvoiD
Smash Lord
I feel as if all questions I had regarding how to be good in melee excluding a few AT's have been answered. Thank you ya lesbitch.
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Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
ill be seeing if it works or not. it prob wont though if projectiles are still as good as you say.
Again
you are in the blast zone taking 1%.
i have several options.
i can stay on the other side of the stage.
i can be on platforms.
i can approach you fully knowing you have very few options (grab, roll towards me or continue spamming) and all of which i can bait because again thats all you have.
also, what if i get close to you and spam back?
its very disadvantageous to sit near the blast zone.
I cant tell you how many times ive seen olimars/samus/toonlinks and other spammer+grabbers fail to land the back throw to blast zone kills because of the reasons ive listed above. it worked in brawl and it will work here especially since projectiles are not near brawl level.
if im wrong, prove it at TGC.
Results make things official. Anything else is speculation/theory crafting, trash talk and arrogance. I have no doubt Houston is easily the best city in the entire southwest but we have no ground to stand on until we have numbers to back it up.
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Zano
Smash Master
Actually, in the Dallas tourney last week where the top 4 teams were gnw pika, the team that won heard about it 15 minutes prior to the tourney starting.
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Haptic
Smash Journeyman
Please Allan, give me some credit. I've been around long enough to know about THE TGM COMBO.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
im talking about its original creation.
Zano
Smash Master
Then what's there to debate about banning the team? Double Mk was a single team and it was banned, this is clearly even worse and we have a chance to nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
The debate is WHAT should i ban?
Pika? since hes the only one who can fill a full bucket in 1 frame.
GW? he has the bucket?
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
With double MK, MANY things were broken about that team. not just nado.
With pika (who isnt good) and GW (who is prob decent but not good) only the bucket being filled with thunder is the issue.
there has got to be a way to keep them legal but not have matches end in 17 secs.
With pika (who isnt good) and GW (who is prob decent but not good) only the bucket being filled with thunder is the issue.
there has got to be a way to keep them legal but not have matches end in 17 secs.
RT
Smash Hero
You already know people WILL abuse it and legit teams will drop out of dubs.
I'm surprised you would even want to debate this.
But hey, if you enjoy people ruining doubles more than double MK ever did...at least double MK didn't cause a match to end in less than half a minute.
I'm surprised you would even want to debate this.
But hey, if you enjoy people ruining doubles more than double MK ever did...at least double MK didn't cause a match to end in less than half a minute.
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Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Many characters have counter now. Can counter beat bucket?
RT
Smash Hero
Of course you can, but what if I don't main character with a counter.
Funny note: you are trying trying to keep something legal that is clearly broken, but when the BBR tried to keep MK legal using the same reasoning by implementing rule limitations, you ranted and raved how dumb it was to not just ban him. And I just want to see them banned from being the same team, not completely from doubles as characters.
This is true karma or the greatest of ironies.
Funny note: you are trying trying to keep something legal that is clearly broken, but when the BBR tried to keep MK legal using the same reasoning by implementing rule limitations, you ranted and raved how dumb it was to not just ban him. And I just want to see them banned from being the same team, not completely from doubles as characters.
This is true karma or the greatest of ironies.
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Gea
Smash Master
Two minor things: projectiles are still super good. One of the reasons Sheik is so freakin' good is her needles. They are still stupidly good because people's movement is still super restricted.
The GW teams thing is overcentralizing to gameplay regardless of the fact that counter could in theory break even (since many counters aren't going to reach and hit GW). What I want to know is what other GW bucket fills could have a similar effect since the way bucket fills has been changed. I'm too lazy to test but there are likely some other ******** GW bucket strats.
Edit: Port is still important for who gets a grab if both people grab at the same time.Probably a few other things as well.
The GW teams thing is overcentralizing to gameplay regardless of the fact that counter could in theory break even (since many counters aren't going to reach and hit GW). What I want to know is what other GW bucket fills could have a similar effect since the way bucket fills has been changed. I'm too lazy to test but there are likely some other ******** GW bucket strats.
Edit: Port is still important for who gets a grab if both people grab at the same time.Probably a few other things as well.
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Haptic
Smash Journeyman
I'm not really a doubles player, but I agree with banning the team of G&W + Pikachu. The only players who are really going to cry about it are those that want to abuse the bucket trick.
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Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
RT, this is not the same situation.
GW and pika are no where near amazing or broken. Only when thunder touches the bucket.
MK has always be uncounterable in singles and doubles. Now throw in 2 of them and you get apex 2012 teams GFs. It took 4 years of surgically nerfing MK in singles and teams only to find out it didn't work. He still dominates and still can't be countered. No stage, rule or move could stop it.
Let's go back to smash 4. Why ALREADY ban something? I'm not against it banning things (in fact I LOVE it) but there are things we can do to reduce it or counter it, right? That's why I bring up the move called counter. It could be a CP vs that team. It seems viable in this game unlike in brawl where tornado goes through counter.
I'm leaning towards banning it but I still wanna see if anything else is possible.
GW and pika are no where near amazing or broken. Only when thunder touches the bucket.
MK has always be uncounterable in singles and doubles. Now throw in 2 of them and you get apex 2012 teams GFs. It took 4 years of surgically nerfing MK in singles and teams only to find out it didn't work. He still dominates and still can't be countered. No stage, rule or move could stop it.
Let's go back to smash 4. Why ALREADY ban something? I'm not against it banning things (in fact I LOVE it) but there are things we can do to reduce it or counter it, right? That's why I bring up the move called counter. It could be a CP vs that team. It seems viable in this game unlike in brawl where tornado goes through counter.
I'm leaning towards banning it but I still wanna see if anything else is possible.