Houston Smash Ultimate Thread

[RunC.T.]

when the WiiU version comes out. 3Ds smash will be for my trips around town pretty much,lol.

also anyone else in Texas using Rosalina? she's pretty damn good.

 

[Zano]

you already know my boy

 

[Teshie U]

Doubles can eventually become singles and 2v1s are looking better than ever so why ruin that with a circle camping stage. Ferox is just extremely fortified places to hide and do bucket/pocket/absorb **** for free.

You can circle camp in doubles. It just comes down to running away until the other team has to split up to catch you, then its 2v1.


Xyro, maybe YOU banned walkoffs for that, but its a total scrub reason to ban a stage. Ask top players and TOs why walkoffs are bad and they will all tell you the same thing I just did.

 

[Zano]

Ferox is really ew the more I try playing on it. I'm trying to find a way to see if it's just a standard counterpick, but all I can see this stage doing is promoting circle camping and just complete avoidance of a fight. Reset bomb forest does what this stage does but better and no circle camping.

Also unless I'm missing some kind of big hazard, mute city seems like a legit cp.

 

[Espy Rose]

Tesh stop.
You'd think that after all of that time bashing your head against a wall in Brawl, that you'd learn something and not do the same crap in Smash 4.

If you dislike his decisions so much that you're willing to post walls that amount to nothing, then become a TO and run your own events with a ruleset you prefer.

 

[Gea]

Tesh I hate to be like this but your opinions kind of went out the window when you advocated team attack off.

 

[z00ted]

Tesh is right regarding walk-offs though, watch exactly what he expressed happen time and time again once they're made legal.
He's correct on pretty much everything actually lol. The team attack idea isn't stupid, just a new perspective to take into consideration. I know I'd at least try it.

And lmao at telling him to stop, what the ****? Bashing his head against a wall in Brawl? Tesh probably contributed 500% more to the community regarding Brawl than both of you ever will. And that's due to him repeatedly hammering down his opinions / ideas for Smash rather than stopping a tenth of the way in because it's so unorthodox to people who'd rather just stick to the status quo.

One thing I know for certain is that Allan reads all of our posts lol, including his. He also takes everything into consideration and is willing to test. I get messages on Facebook telling me to add my thoughts as well, so I really don't see why we would ever want to shut people up about a game they enjoy unless you guys wanna go back to the era the Houston thread was in around a year ago.

 

[Zano]

the problems with the walk off stages in this game is that those stages also have another very big issue with them (lights on boxing arena, any side scrolling stage, gerudo valley/guar plains being huge af, flatzone hazards), so they really shouldn't be used in the first place. also for some reason, you can walk through the blast zones on balloon fight to get to the other side, but if you knock an opponent into them, it kills.

 

[Gea]

Walkoffs were banned because of overcentralization of gameplay, but that's exactly what characters like Melee Fox and Brawl DDD did with shine/dthrow chains. They are saying basically the same thing. Here's the thing: Tesh is advocating the banning of certain things because he prefers not to play there. Until something has been proven to be problematic (like walkoffs), they should remain legal.

The thing is, Allan may want to retest walkoffs. MKII was legal in doubles for a LONG TIME in Melee despite having walkoffs. It never became an overcentralizing CP.

As for doubles, team attack is on because it's considered a higher test of skill to have it on instead of playing a game called "who can overlap hitboxes better."

 

[Xyro77]

****ing Gea literally agrees with me. This day will be remembered for eons.

Melee gens UNITE

 

[Xyro77]

It's just funny how many new gens do not know why original rules were put in place.

So what do they do.....they ASK OTHER NEW GENS WHO DONT KNOW EITHER. This is how misinformation is spread and accepted. A leading reason why I usually don't argue with you people and just do what I want.


However, Illmatic is right when he says im listening to what you guys are saying.

I'll not use turtle island/guar plains. You guys won that battle.

 

[RT]

*team attack off*

*Robin can just throw out Thorons with no consequence to his partner or instant fill GW bucket*

Okay then.

 

[Xyro77]

Also, team Attack will always be on. As with 2 stocks, this "team
Attack off" thing will never be considered ever.

 

[Xyro77]

Roll
Cancelled
Grab
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qWNDB6nUj4g

 

[alex mora]

Ill be looking to lock up the 22nd for a wii u tournament in the woodlands ill keep you guys updated on that

 

[UltimateRazer]

I didn't find Ferox bad at all. Maybe it's cause me and Trela don't camp lo. Even still, you can rush down your opponent.

 

[TheJerm]

Yea, ferox is fine imo. 2 stocks is finer. I think if we did a vote, 2 stocks would win. I believe the game will end up very similar to brawl with the long tournies and matches with 3 stocks

 

[z00ted]

 

[Espy Rose]

Poetic justice.

 

[alex mora]

its not the nerf we deserved but the nerf we needed

 

[z00ted]

It's actually both.

 

[Xyro77]

Single handedly made me realize I can finally let my MK hate go. He's not near as good as he was in brawl.




Edit: 2 stocks is out of the question. Good day, sir.

 

[Xyro77]

New discoveries on character movement

http://smashboards.com/threads/perfect-pivot-foxtrotting-dashdancing.371139/

 

[Zano]

can't wait to see how many people break their joysticks attempting these.

 

[AvoiD]

"Landing lag in Smash 4 isn't some immediate problem that requires a "fix at any cost" response, especially when our only fix is something like this. Let's take a step back for a second and look at the pros and cons of the proposed change. (This list is in no way complete on either side)

Pros:
Faster gameplay (more combos, better spacing/approach options)
More appeal from Melee/P:M fans
Might make more characters viable
Potential to explore more equipment in tournaments*
*Iffy on this one, because equipment+custom moves on link can make arrows do 70-100 damage each

Cons:
Players are required to grind out three pieces of RNG based equipment that each have Smooth Landing AND balance each other's stats out to exactly zero
A process to verify that these conditions are met before each individual match needs to be implemented
Our main source of competitive matchmaking (For Glory 1-on-1) is rendered useless or gimped
Players who don't have the time/luck/motivation to farm for this rare set of equipment can't compete
The newly viable characters might become dominate, as the game was not balanced with universal smooth landing in mind.

I'm not going to base an argument off of this list. All I want you guys to do is to step back and think about what we'd actually have to go through as a game to implement this. We are asking nearly every player seeking competitive play to spend a ridiculously large (and random) amount of time playing through non-competitive modes just to have a legal and non-gimped version of the game available to them for tournaments. The only way out of this time-sink is to figure out save altering/decrypting/distribution, which opens up it's own list of problems for both accessibility and cheat prevention.
All of this for what, exactly? Less landing lag? A slightly faster game? In my honest opinion, it's not even close to worth the cons. Smash 4 is already a great game. It has good pacing, combos, and rewards for smart play in ways no other smash game has had before. Would a smooth landing toggle be good in this game? Definitely. Is the toggle worth the days upon days of grinding smash run/stadium (or hours of save transfering/checking before tournaments) that is required for each player to even have a tournament legal copy of the game?"

http://smashboards.com/threads/smooth-lander-the-one-custom-equipment-that-should-be-legal.371291/

Thought I'd leave this here. Interesting to say the least.

 

[z00ted]

I'd be 100% for that but I doubt it'll ever catch on.

 

[alex mora]

equipment is so dumb learn your character if they have lag then choose that move wisely.

 

[alex mora]

http://smashboards.com/threads/smooth-lander-the-one-custom-equipment-that-should-be-legal.371291/

Thought I'd leave this here. Interesting to say the least.

but the thing is, yes it makes the game faster but when in melee has a players l-cancels been frame perfect every time during a match? i imagine never. bowser should have lag on some of his moves because he is a stronger character and heavier. it reflects his character. giving a character like him even quick auto cancels makes him stupid. Equipment is new yes and people are excited to try it but giving EVERY character auto l cancels on every move for the entire match with out them actually doing anything at all besides assigning equipment is dumb. no one is that frame perfect

 

[Teshie U]

*team attack off*

*Robin can just throw out Thorons with no consequence to his partner or instant fill GW bucket*

Okay then.

??? You can't fill up your teammates bucket with TA off. Reflectors/absorptions go back to being reversal techniques to COUNTER mindless spam. Sure you can Thoron through your teammate, but maybe the other team has a palutena reflecting everything back at you while little mac crushes your skull.

Walkoffs were banned because of overcentralization of gameplay, but that's exactly what characters like Melee Fox and Brawl DDD did with shine/dthrow chains. They are saying basically the same thing. Here's the thing: Tesh is advocating the banning of certain things because he prefers not to play there. Until something has been proven to be problematic (like walkoffs), they should remain legal.

The thing is, Allan may want to retest walkoffs. MKII was legal in doubles for a LONG TIME in Melee despite having walkoffs. It never became an overcentralizing CP.

As for doubles, team attack is on because it's considered a higher test of skill to have it on instead of playing a game called "who can overlap hitboxes better."

Ps2 was banned in Brawl just because the majority didn't like it. It wasn't broken, just very different from core gameplay. The game has settings, and a switch for turning off stages you don't like. The community is already playing the game based on preference. Stamina mode, time mode, bonus mode, special mode etc. could all be competitive in their own way. Its just about majority rules and community preference. At some point, you do have to look around ask "are any of us enjoying this?".

I'll leave the walkoffs alone for now, I've said my part on it, so if you guys really believe walkoff camping is a skill we want to test, thats fine.

"who can overlap hitboxes"
^There is a game that does exactly that, and its way more popular than Smash ever was or probably ever will be. Shooting lasers through your teammate doesn't automatically throw skill out the window. "cyclops shot a laser and it didnt even hurt his teammate akuma, this is soooooo not fun or skillful" said no Marvel player ever.

Coordinating a joint offensive/defensive with a partner would certainly be more skillful than two people literally mashing down B over and over to win a tournament. I don't expect you guys to really play TA off, but lets not pretend TA on is always so skillful. Almost any game has some level of stupid **** that takes alot less skill to be viable.

TA off wouldn't be dominated by double falco/megaman mashing B over and over. It could get hectic and messy, but quick thinkers who planned ahead will still come out on top with the right synergy.

I didn't find Ferox bad at all. Maybe it's cause me and Trela don't camp lo. Even still, you can rush down your opponent.

I'm sure you and Trela are having a good time, but what if someone as skilled as you gets a lead and decides to abuse whatever he can to win? When you put these solid barriers in play for such a long time, you don't give slower characters even a sliver of a chance at forcing a conflict with someone that might just run away with a 10% lead. Arena Ferox spends 10 seconds being perfectly fine before going back to being ******** for 30 seconds. Thats a terrible trade-off. You might as well do a 1 minute match on FD to decide who wins.


Believe it or not, I enjoy taking concepts I'm passionate about and fleshing out how I feel on an issue. I understand people have different opinions and I enjoy a heated discussion. I always have. No point in complaining about it, this thread has been completely dead compared to the old Houston thread so its not like we are getting in the way of something more important/interesting. This thread gets like maybe 3 post a day otherwise. If you don't like it, feel free to toss out another topic and see if anyone bites. Xyro literally texted me and told me to give my input about his stagelist, so here I am.

I'm calling Xyro/Razer/RT on what they are saying right now. I really shouldn't need some sort of credibility to do that. If something does or doesn't make sense, it really doesn't matter who said it.

I'm pretty disgusted with that MK video. I don't see why they would think its okay to have the animations imply hitboxes that are clearly not there. Its ugly. There is nothing good about giving him a sword that somehow has less range than Mario. Meanwhile shulk has a ****ing lightsaber attached to a greatsword AND magical powers that let him do whatever the **** he wants at any time.

I've been keeping an eye on that "smooth landing" discussion. I'm not sure if we should jump on conforming this game towards Melee/Brawl just yet. In previous Smash games, safe landings were dominant, and while thats an entirely bad thing, we may finally have an iteration where ground based characters and aerial based characters see some balance. I'd like to see it play out before we turn Smash into "best aerials win" again.

 

[RT]

Strike what I said about the bucketing, I was being a derp when I added that part. But the point still stands. There is no strategy, precision, or skill in just spamming moves without thinking of the consequences.

 

[gamma1]

What do you guys think about Pictochat 2? I loved pictochat as a CP in Brawl when it was available. Easily my favorite level, and this one seems just as good to me. It does have a few hazards, but nothing that I can think of that would ruin the whole level as a choice. Opinions?

 

[Xyro77]

Equipment will never be legal at my events. Equipment and custom moves are like items as in that they are just Another aspect of smash 4 that are meant for casuals who can't handle how bad Ganon is (for example). How about you get good or learn your character or pick a better one? We have been doing this in ssb 64, melee and brawl. No need to use stupid **** like custom moves and equipment.


As for pictochat, I love it. Same with pictochat 2. The problem is that the hazards are RANDOM. In brawl I've seen Lee Martin with a full stock lead at 0% die because of a transformation that eliminates a ledge. There was no way to see it coming.

 

[Xyro77]

Back to stages.....


After seeing yalls comments, how about this? I'll be making a decision today.


Battle Field=Starter
Final Destination=Starter
Yoshi Island Brawl=Starter


Jungle Japes=Counter Pick
Brinstar=Counter Pick
Arena Ferox=Counter Pick
Prism Tower=Counter Pick

I highly disagree taking away walk offs (guar plains and boxing ring) but I realized I'm only doing one 3ds event before the REAL game comes out on nov 21st so I decided to cave in on my views. Wiiu version will have walk offs legal unless CGs or shine situations return. You have like 40 something days to prepare for that.

 

[RT]

This is fine. If it's one event, everyone can deal with it.

If not, they can deal with it by not entering.

Regardless, DEAL WITH IT.

 

[gamma1]

Yeah that looks good. Wish there more legal-ish stages to play. The choices overall on the 3ds feel pretty limited as far as tournament viability goes. I just get bored of playing FD all the time. -.-

Back to stages.....

I highly disagree taking away walk offs (guar plains and boxing ring) but I realized I'm only doing one 3ds event before the REAL game comes out on nov 21st so I decided to cave in on my views. Wiiu version will have walk offs legal unless CGs or shine situations return. You have like 40 something days to prepare for that.

I do agree that walk offs should be given a chance.

 

[Xyro77]

Smash 4 aerial landing lag data sheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...LlmUglglrwN0_A_aiTKlM/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0

Look at those air dodges

 

[RT]

Even the frame data poops on Ganon.

It ain't easy being an great king of evil.

 

[alex mora]

Tesh, G&W has had the bucket since Melee and no one has abused it because in all the smash games he has been in he has been terrible. It's a terrible tradeoff to choose G&W to use just his bucket at the expense of his character being terrible and you not winning most matchups. It's not as big of a problem as you are making it.

 

[Xyro77]

In brawl, gw was top 4 best chars to use in teams.

MK
Wario
Gw
Snake or diddy

Then he has Anubis Strat with lucario or easy buckets with ZS.

TLDR; bucket isn't why GW is good in teams for brawl. But at the same time, bucket is extremely good. Basically, gw is more of a teams character than a singles character.


Edit: I may be wrong but I think the reason why GW is garbage in melee is because only one of his moves (dair) can be l-cancelled.

 

[RT]

I'm still sad Anubis is no longer as effective...