Hitstun/shield stun Thread

[zxeon]

^ who was that to?

Anyone and everyone.

 

[poklin]

well with gravity things are a bit different thats why i asked. Like with normal 15 seems good but with gravity its insane.

 

[kupo15]

he means with no grav mod

 

[Hax]

this game seriously needs to die. im not ****ing kidding.

 

[zxeon]

this game seriously needs to die. im not ****ing kidding.

???wtf are you talking about?


Oh I see now. He wants people to go back to melee.

 

[M15t3R E]

Any videos showing what this hitstun hack can do yet?

 

[Starscream]

using gravity is just too much, with 10% its almost perfect but everything still feels too easy, and with gravity it would just mean more teching is needed

Have you tried using gravity mods? If you haven't then please do before saying it's "too much". The game feels a lot less floaty and more fluid.

I don't use gravity mods, and don't plan to.. so.. yeah, any help would be appreciated.

Any reason why you won't at least try it? It takes no time at all to put the codes in just to experiment with it. It seriously makes the game more fun. It's also the best solution we have right now to Brawl's extreme floatiness until all the proposed jump and fall speed changes are actually coded.

so you guys with gravity what do you think? im playing with 1.175 and 13% seems a little to much although i'm not playing a real opponent.

I think 13% or 12% will be okay. I haven't had a chance to play a real opponent (and probably won't unless someone wants to play online with gravity mods) that can actually DI well so I don't really know.

I suggest you try 1.165 gravity though. The difference between it and 1.175 is almost unnoticeable but it might make a tiny difference in helping Sonic's Up+B.

 

[poklin]

i see ill try that, i may be going over my friends house soon to test out diff HS %'s so ill you what i think when i get back(if i go)

 

[zxeon]

I don't think you need any additional gravity if you are playing with hitstun. It works really well.

 

[Dan_X]

I don't think you need any additional gravity if you are playing with hitstun. It works really well.

I agree, I have no problem with the game the way it is. I honestly don't mind the "floatiness."

One of the prime reasons I don't care to try gravity modifiers is because I don't like the effect they play on recovery moves. Sonic's spring for example is lessened immensely, I think that's just lame.

 

[poklin]

To both ^ unfortunately i don't care what you think is good or bad, right or wrong, i enjoy 10x end of story.

also adding this

One of the prime reasons I don't care to try gravity modifiers is because I don't like the effect they play on recovery moves. Sonic's spring for example is lessened immensely, I think that's just lame.

You just said you haven't try'ed it yourself and when you do get back to me... and your example is bad cause really sonic is THE only char that suffers pretty much at all with it at 1.175 and even then it's really not that bad its still quite good my friend mains sonic and doesn't mind it at all.

 

[MBlaze]

The histun is great enough and the gravity modifiers screw recoveries, no use for gravity mods.

 

[M15t3R E]

I don't think the grav mods are necessary. That would just be taking it too far anyway.
Added hitstun will allow for more combos and thus more technical skill. That's all we need.

 

[Starscream]

You just said you haven't try'ed it yourself and when you do get back to me... and your example is bad cause really sonic is THE only char that suffers pretty much at all with it at 1.175 and even then it's really not that bad its still quite good my friend mains sonic and doesn't mind it at all.

Exactly, and Sonic still has other options for recovery like his Spin Shot. No one's recovery is nerfed to the point where they're garbage.

Not to mention that everyone's short hops are really **** high with regular gravity. Yeah I know, adapt and all but I wish the people writing it off would just try it and then come back with a truly formulated opinion. It doesn't take a lot of time to try and you have nothing to lose.

 

[storm92]

I personally prefer 1.165 (the best grav setting, agreed on by most) just becomes it shortens SHFFLs a bit to make the game more fluid and not so floaty. Its not necessary, but the coding is so short people should try it out because it could easily make it into the final product if people gave it a try and liked it.
1.165 barely does anything to Sonic's recovery, iirc. Plus his B moves work just as well for recovery so meh.

 

[kupo15]

To both ^ unfortunately i don't care what you think is good or bad, right or wrong, i enjoy 10x end of story.

also adding this



You just said you haven't try'ed it yourself and when you do get back to me... and your example is bad cause really sonic is THE only char that suffers pretty much at all with it at 1.175 and even then it's really not that bad its still quite good my friend mains sonic and doesn't mind it at all.

All the multi jumpers lose all height in their last jump and Pit's up b doesn't last as long.

I think that with shield, stun, the game will fix itself

 

[Wind Owl]

I dunno, do you REALLY want to see Tornado and L-canceled Turtle with shieldstun?

 

[storm92]

Turtle hurts, but it still has so much lag on the ground it can be punished if used excessively.
Tornado, I have no idea. That could be annoying, but how much worse can it get...

 

[Starscream]

All the multi jumpers lose all height in their last jump and Pit's up b doesn't last as long.

With 1.175 or 1.165 (the better of the 2 and probably the best setting) this is completely untrue.

 

[kupo15]

I dunno, do you REALLY want to see Tornado and L-canceled Turtle with shieldstun?

Well, if your relating that to shield breaking, that wont necessarily happen since both are shield pokers. But you can escape after the tornado and prob the turtle. I only want enough so your not punished with the stupid shield grabbing we have and especially while in mid move

With 1.175 or 1.165 (the better of the 2 and probably the best setting) this is completely untrue.

Well, idk what grav i tried, but it happened then. If im wrong sorry. But I believe they are affected a little. I don't like grav hacks to be the solution to the problem.

 

[poklin]

Are you serious? pits recovery it's way to good anyways and all/most of the multi jumpers have good/great recovery's i play kirby and yes i effects him but it also effects everyone a little. also i only used 1.175 as a example i actually play on 1.165 where it is even better.

 

[Wind Owl]

I still think friction needs to be toned the **** down. You can't punish a lot of moves without powershielding them (which is a pain for multihit moves) because you slide so far.

Also, I would if the powershield window was reduced by 1/2F and projectiles were reflected by powershielding again.

 

[storm92]

Also, I would if the powershield window was reduced by 1/2F and projectiles were reflected by powershielding again.

This. Projectiles being reflected.

 

[zxeon]

I can't hit my techs worth **** anymore. Have I lost it?

 

[kupo15]

Are you serious? pits recovery it's way to good anyways and all/most of the multi jumpers have good/great recovery's i play kirby and yes i effects him but it also effects everyone a little. also i only used 1.175 as a example i actually play on 1.165 where it is even better.

I never said his recovery was bad, but why nerf it? Besides, you CAN gimp Pits if they are too aggressive for edge guarding and they need to be somewhat aggressive. When you lose your height on your jumps, his edge guarding game becomes weaker and thats bad for him

I still think friction needs to be toned the **** down. You can't punish a lot of moves without powershielding them (which is a pain for multihit moves) because you slide so far.

Also, I would if the powershield window was reduced by 1/2F and projectiles were reflected by powershielding again.

I already asked PW for the needed changes in the shielding and PS. But I didnt include reflectiveness because it an issue ppl are torn with

I can't hit my techs worth **** anymore. Have I lost it?

Same. I missed too many techs today. It must be because im not used to moves putting you in the position to tech. I think if this keeps happening, then we should consider increasing the window. Idk if it is the same as melee but melee was perfect.

 

[storm92]

I can't hit my techs worth **** anymore. Have I lost it?

In Melee I hit every tech, but playing with humans in Brawl+ I miss all but like one a night.
I seriously think we should increase the window, it's almost too difficult in Brawl.

 

[SGX]

Tech rolling is SO slow in brawl its depressing. =(

Also, gravity mods really mess with heavy characters jumping abilities.

 

[kupo15]

In Melee I hit every tech, but playing with humans in Brawl+ I miss all but like one a night.
I seriously think we should increase the window, it's almost too difficult in Brawl.

I think so also. I not trying to make it seem like we are dumbing the game down, but it seems like its too hard to do now with the current window. Does anyone know frame data on it? Is the window less then melee?

 

[Wind Owl]

It's less than Melee. A lot of the time I'll AD right above the ground instead of tech. I would be against making the window bigger, except for things like Falco ****** a stock off of you every single time you miss a tech with one button.

 

[kupo15]

and several ppl have Jab locks also

 

[Starscream]

Well, idk what grav i tried, but it happened then. If im wrong sorry. But I believe they are affected a little. I don't like grav hacks to be the solution to the problem.

Well everyone character's jumping height is affected but multi-jump characters will still gain height from their all of their jumps. Higher gravity doesn't change the length of Pit's Up+B. No one's recovery is ruined.

Higher gravity isn't there to solve anything if you don't see Brawl's really high short hops or floatiness a problem. But it does make the game more fluid, faster and fun to those of us that at least tried and experimented with the gravity codes. People like MuBa are proposing things like increasing fall speed and shortening short hops while keeping full jumps and Up+Bs unnaffected anyways. Until these such things come to be I think 1.165 gravity gives excellent results.

Anyways, I'm not trying to turn this into a gravity discussion thread but I think people should try and experiment with it before writing it off.

 

[matt4300]

Uhhmm i have been reading up until this point for a while now... and im still confused. Could you please post exatly what codes i need at the right values to play the same brawl+ your testing kupo15. ^_^'

 

[kupo15]

Well everyone character's jumping height is affected but multi-jump characters will still gain height from their all of their jumps. Higher gravity doesn't change the length of Pit's Up+B. No one's recovery is ruined.

Higher gravity isn't there to solve anything if you don't see Brawl's really high short hops or floatiness a problem. But it does make the game more fluid, faster and fun to those of us that at least tried and experimented with the gravity codes. People like MuBa are proposing things like increasing fall speed and shortening short hops while keeping full jumps and Up+Bs unnaffected anyways. Until these such things come to be I think 1.165 gravity gives excellent results.

Anyways, I'm not trying to turn this into a gravity discussion thread but I think people should try and experiment with it before writing it off.

I mean sure, grav is a good sub for now. But Id rather go with faster falling. And yes, gravity does affect Pits up b, being a Pit main, I would know. It may not seem like it, but it does slightly. To exaggerate, if you do heavy brawl, you will definitely see that gravity does change the time Pit is in his up B. Also, I have played with the minimal gravity you play with and Pits, jumps get weaker the more you use. You can definitely see that the last jump doesn't have as much height as the first and with the gravity on, his last jump is useless to gain much needed height. I often wonder what id do if I had less height on the last jump. It affects pit a lot.

Also, MK's last 2 jumps i believe also have no height on them as well. I know he could use the nerf, but changing character like this is a bad idea IMO.

Also, Ganon can't thunderstorm anymore with the gravity hacks.

Gravity is not the way to go, but its a sub for now so if you want to use them, i cant stop you..

Uhhmm i have been reading up until this point for a while now... and im still confused. Could you please post exatly what codes i need at the right values to play the same brawl+ your testing kupo15. ^_^'

Just change the value of the bold to the 15% line which is 3F1CCCCD. Code goes from 0-F so 3F10000 is bigger than 3F00000 which is one margin bigger than 3EFFFFFF

 

[matt4300]

thanks for replying but i ment what codes you are using together and testing. As in melee air dodge, hitstun____ , no tripping , S canceling , l canceling, auto l canceling (if there is such a code) ect... or wich you personally prefer.

 

[kupo15]

oh, I prefer

auto l canceling
no tripping
the hitstun i said

 

[Wind Owl]

With the gravity change, can you jump grab release Metaknight into more things? Like a grab, maybe? :D

 

[kupo15]

With the gravity change, can you jump grab release Metaknight into more things? Like a grab, maybe? :D

Im sorry but thats dumb...ill assume it was sarcastic... lol ^_^

 

[Wind Owl]

It was serious...

I'm not saying it outweighs the problems, but I was just wondering

 

[Starscream]

I'll just say the difference between heavy Brawl and 1.165 Gravity setting is huge. Not really comparable.

 

[kupo15]

I'll just say the difference between heavy Brawl and 1.165 Gravity setting is huge. Not really comparable.

I used heavy brawl as an extreme example. It shows that gravity does affect those things I mentioned which means that even though yours is much less, its still affects the things I mentioned. So not only does it mess with characters recovery a little, but its not a good idea to destroy all aerials that are auto canceled in a SH or FH.

I like how you dismissed my whole post because of that one part that proved that gravity affects things you said they didn't -_-