Hitbox size modifications

[The Cape]

My suggestions so far for hitbox modifications that I feel we should do with the discovery of PK's new code.

Bigger:
Zelda kick sweetspots 1.2x size
Sonic nair 1.2x size
Bowser fair 1.2x size
TL D smash back hit 1.1x size
Snake U tilt weak hitbox 1.2x size
Grab ranges? example: Falcon, Mario, Ivysaur, etc

Chars that love grabs but have ****ty range.

Smaller:
Snake F tilt reach box .8x size
Snake U tilt hard hitbox .8x size
MK Tornado .8x size (remove speed down mods)

These are the initial list of what I think we should look at, explanations for all if needed.

 

[Deleted member]

the code

PAL

C273FA3C 00000019
3C008180 80FC0028
81070008 8108FFFC
7C080000 408000A8
81080030 80DE0020
5106C00E 801E0000
5006821E 801E0018
5006442E 80E7007C
80E70038 813E0030
5127C0CE 801E0014
50076226 390204C8
85480018 81680004
7D405B79 41820060
7C0A3000 4082FFEC
7C0B3800 4082FFE4
88080008 90030004
88080009 9003001C
8808000A 90030024
8808000B 500906FE
91230034 A008000C
90030018 80080010
2C00FFFF 41820008
90030038 C0080014
C03E0010 EC010032
D0030014 7F83E378
60000000 00000000

NTSC

C2744A3C 00000019
3C008180 80FC0028
81070008 8108FFFC
7C080000 408000A8
81080030 80DE0020
5106C00E 801E0000
5006821E 801E0018
5006442E 80E7007C
80E70038 813E0030
5127C0CE 801E0014
50076226 390204C8
85480018 81680004
7D405B79 41820060
7C0A3000 4082FFEC
7C0B3800 4082FFE4
88080008 90030004
88080009 9003001C
8808000A 90030024
8808000B 500906FE
91230034 A008000C
90030018 80080010
2C00FFFF 41820008
90030038 C0080014
C03E0010 EC010032
D0030014 7F83E378
60000000 00000000

ok the code should work but I'm gonna polish it if needed

format is
XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

where 3F8000000 is normal size

Hitbox move codes:

PAL

Hitbox Shift Mod (HSM) [The Paprika Killer]
C273FA38 00000013
90030040 3C008180
80FC0028 81070008
8108FFFC 7C080000
4080007C 81080030
80DE0020 5106C00E
801E0000 5006821E
801E0018 5006442E
80E7007C 80E70038
813E0030 5127C0CE
801E0014 50076226
3902F438 85480010
81680004 7D405B79
41820034 7C0A3000
4082FFEC 7C0B3800
4082FFE4 C003000C
C0280008 EC00082A
D003000C C0030010
C028000C EC00082A
D0030010 00000000

adress is 805AA528
or
065AA528 BYTECOUN

NTSC

Hitbox Shift Mod (HMS) [The Paprika Killer]
C2744A38 00000013
90030040 3C008180
80FC0028 81070008
8108FFFC 7C080000
4080007C 81080030
80DE0020 5106C00E
801E0000 5006821E
801E0018 5006442E
80E7007C 80E70038
813E0030 5127C0CE
801E0014 50076226
3902F438 85480010
81680004 7D405B79
41820034 7C0A3000
4082FFEC 7C0B3800
4082FFE4 C003000C
C0280008 EC00082A
D003000C C0030010
C028000C EC00082A
D0030010 00000000

adress: 805A8768
or
065A8768 BYTECOUN

adress can be wrong

FORMAT:

XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX
VERTICAL HORIZONT

the X's are the first line the normal hitbox code uses.
the shifts are done with floats, and according to leaf are the same as spunit's coordinate system

for reference, ground to upper platform of shadow moses is 64, width of smaller platform at shadow moses is just under 32

 

[goodoldganon]

Snakes tilts are fine. Or more so Snake is fine and doesn't need nerfs, especially to his bread and butter.

 

[shanus]

Falcon reverse knee shrink size bring up to full power.

 

[Revven]

Hmm okay, let me think of some here.

MK's Uair I say should get a .8 size mod to get rid of its use for planking but still allow him to combo from it. This would be a great way to tone him down at the same time. If .8 doesn't do it, we could try .77 or something not too small.

Actually, why not just change MK's aerials altogether? Edit the size of each one so they're not as stupid good as well. Seems like a fair thing to do (also, it wouldn't be a HUGE nerf, maybe just try them all at .8?) At least MK Dair and Uair, those are the two problem moves I see. OH AND SHUTTLE LOOP, OMG, decrease the reverse hitbox por favor.

Kirby Fsmash, we could get rid of the wind-down nerf and the KB nerf assuming the size down on it is enough to make it less easier to land (you know, so it requires better spacing to kill with).

Falco Fsmash. Hits behind him and has a DUMB hitbox that's extended past his feathers, it's a stupid edgeguarding move as well. Tone down to .95 or .9, if neither of those values do it, .85.

I'll try to think of some more later. Thoughts?

Edit: Ness's Yoyos need some serious hitbox size changes. They are ridiculously small to hit with, increase the *****es to 1.2 pl0x.

 

[goodoldganon]

I'm worried this code could get wildly out of hand. We need to sit down and discuss this code, I feel it only needs to be applied when NOTHING else really works or we had to apply a multitude of nerfs/buffs to a move (I.E. Tornado)

P.S. Weren't you the one saying to wait on MK Falco, and now you have a list of 5+ nerfs to deliver to him?

P.P.S We also need to remember these moves have animations tied to them. We don't want 10-15 more Snake Tilts-esque moves but we also need to make sure that when characters bodies/swords/etc are hitting people, so is the move. For example I don't want to see MK use U-air and I can pause and see the sword scratching Ganon's ****, but it's not actually hitting him.

Overall, I reiterate I am very fearful of this code and what we can do with it. We have to tread lightly or we risk ruining our rep or needing another 'wake-up' call.

 

[Revven]

\P.S. Weren't you the one saying to wait on MK Falco, and now you have a list of 5+ nerfs to deliver to him?.

Well, yeah... that was before size mod was deemed impossible. I guess if you wanna keep him with his gay range, that's fine, but Uair needs tweaking. MK can still plank, and GoG, THAT IS a serious problem. Sizing down the hitbox would fix it A LOT. You can't seriously be saying that we should allow MK to still plank? Uair needs the fix, seriously, maybe not his other aerials but AT LEAST UAIR GoG. Come on!

 

[goodoldganon]

I'm not arguing that, if it's still possible it needs to be fixed. It was more the all aerials and shuttle loop. If MK is the best character in vBrawl and Brawl+ that's fine with me, I just want to make sure that the Brawl+ MKs are winning with their skill. You don't see noob Marths and Foxs winning Melee tournaments, I don't want noob MKs winning B+ tournaments.

I'm getting off topic, again I say this code should only be used when nothing else can fix the problem or we have to apply multiple changes to it.

On an aside, how exactly does the hitbox code get bigger? Let's take Falcon's knee for example. If we increase it by, oh I don't know, 2x the size it will increase the circumference of the circle or can we apply it one way? Say we want to make Snake's U-tilt 20% smaller, will Snake suddenly have some sort of bizarre deadspot on the u-tilt on his body and in front of him?

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^If by deadspot you mean Snake will no longer hit HERE.

Then yes, that's what I'm hoping for. That's just gotta go. I'd rather just buff Snake in some other way to compensate, but those ridiculous hitboxes were some of the BIGGEST complaints when this project started.

Other than that there's not many hitboxes that I think should be smaller. MK's tornado and...that's really it.

As for bigger, that's a completely different matter (though Sonic's nair is abysmal in that regard lol.) We have to be really careful about grab ranges though.

 

[goodoldganon]

*rolls eyes* A bunch of babies, the whole lot of you. Stop hating on Snake cause his tilts are a little gay and he was mad good in vBrawl. He is beatable now a days, has counter matchups, weaknesses, among other negatives. If you don't like the tilt camping playstyle then just don't play as him, simple as that. This may be a shocker, but there are plenty of us that like (love) Snake's playstyle and don't want to change it because a bunch of whiners hate his tilts.

And no, by deadspot I mean I don't want Snake's actual body to not be a part of the hitbox anymore.

 

[MuBa]

*rolls eyes* A bunch of babies, the whole lot of you. Stop hating on Snake cause his tilts are a little gay and he was mad good in vBrawl. He is beatable now a days, has counter matchups, weaknesses, among other negatives. If you don't like the tilt camping playstyle then just don't play as him, simple as that. This may be a shocker, but there are plenty of us that like (love) Snake's playstyle and don't want to change it because a bunch of whiners hate his tilts.

And no, by deadspot I mean I don't want Snake's actual body to not be a part of the hitbox anymore.

I whole-heartedly agree with you. Snake does NOT need any more nerfs. He gets combo'd and gimped pretty bad anyway. And even if we did nerf his tilt size, what kind of compensation do you guys have in mind that will not make a lot of the Snake players mad?

 

[Deleted member]

I actually don't even know if the hitboxes are spherical (this is a 3D fighter so not circles).

it is likely though, since the value that is modified was a given number for each hitbox, which I suppose is their size.

about deadspots, only if the middle of the hitbox wasn't inside or close to the body, and we reduced the size sgnificantly.

 

[Deleted member]

ok, found another set of values which might be usefull. translations (hope that is the correct word)

meaning we can now move hitboxes in both the X and Y plane. this is most used in the game by sword moves, and might be usefull in some situations.
the code adjustment is easy, but are we really gonna need this?
the value for hitlag is also known, and another value I found might be hitstun (don't know for sure)

 

[shanus]

I dont think we really need translation at all. I don't think we really plan on modifying many hitboxes much at all.

Hitlag or hitstun modification could prove useful, though, but I also don't think we'd modify that many things with it aside from jabs.

 

[Deleted member]

if I can find a way that we don't have to change every hitbox when we want to make some of these changes, it might be more usefull.

 

[CT Chia]

Cape - are you really suggesting that (part of) Snakes utilt should be bigger, Falcon should have more grab range, and Zelda's fair and bair all be bigger?

Really....?

 

[kupo15]

I think that snakes utilt should be smaller for the reasons above
Reverse knee smaller
I would rather have the knee size smaller in trade of a bigger sweet spot window (and other sweet spots if needed)
Ganon's grab a little bigger also

 

[The Cape]

The top of Snake's U tilt, the part where he hits with his foot, not his huge invisible ****. Make that bigger to help compensate for the smaller main hitbox (which is the kill box)

Falcon more grab range as his priority is **** as is his grab range and it would benefit the character greatly.

Zelda fair and bair sweetspots are tiny and easy to miss (read the Zelda thread with Ryoko's posts) since its a one frame window, why cant they be bigger?

 

[CT Chia]

You want to compensate Snake for slightly reducing the hitbox of one of the most controversial moves in vBrawl hitbox wise? Nothing needs to be compensated for that garbage lol.

I would agree with Falcon if landing a grab with him wasn't so **** destructive. His grabs start such great combos, almost all ending in a kill move killing at ~75%

Zelda's already kind of an awesome character and with the ability to combo into fair and bar, it's not like it's impossible to hit. It's not quite that hard it seems, and I've played Ryoko a lot in this game. Since they're tiny and I guess easy to miss, it's the tradeoff for being her strongest and one of her best kill moves, which is an aerial attack afterall.

 

[Almas]

Does the fact that the hitbox size is silly mean that it is also overpowered?

 

[MookieRah]

I think the fair/bair window for Zelda could be increased by like 10-20% and it won't make Zelda broken. As it stands, it's not like she is vying for top tier, so she could use a lil helpful boost.

As far as Falcon goes, while he has a lot of hype, he does have a lot of downsides. As Cape said, priority is an issue with him, as most characters can stop him dead in his tracks with their moves. I think giving his grab a slight bonus won't break him. Maybe 10%?

Also, yeah, nerf snakes invisible utilt range. Let him keep his already ******** ftilt and AAA range, but make it to where his utilt actually makes sense. It's so flippin powerful anyways... it really needs a weakness.

 

[Revven]

As far as Falcon goes, while he has a lot of hype, he does have a lot of downsides. As Cape said, priority is an issue with him, as most characters can stop him dead in his tracks with their moves. I think giving his grab a slight bonus won't break him. Maybe 10%?

This and if you're Kirby or anyone shorter than Falcon, you can literally just DUCK his standing grab and you cannot get grabbed by him at all. He is, as far as I know, the only character with this problem (maybe Ganondorf too). It would mean that you also cannot grab someone like Kirby who uses DC as an approach so, it's just another thing that makes Kirby easier to get inside Falcon. All Falcon could do at that point is stand there, shield, or sidestep the oncoming Dtilt.

It's stupid. Not saying that the 10% increase would alleviate this problem, but, it may and that would be another good reason to do it anyway.

 

[shanus]

Has anyone even tried to see if the hitbox size mod works on grab?

 

[goodoldganon]

I will murder every one of you if we adjust Snakes tilts

 

[Yeroc]

Don't make him post the picture again. It doesn't need to be much, but that move has to be fixed at least somewhat. IMO it's not that it's too powerful, but that range is absurd. I don't want to nerf the move's intended purpose, I just want to fix what's wrong with it. I don't even care if you wanna boost the sweetspot kb to compensate, but that range has to be cut down some.

 

[The Cape]

GoG. PM me for my address. I await your death threats with cracking knuckles.

 

[The Cape]

Wario and Pika grab boxes could be moved to more inside their bodies as it may allow us to fix the CG that way.

Whorenado with MK should be smaller

Icers grab (once infinite is gone) should be a bit bigger.

 

[CT Chia]

ppl are still complaining about warios measly 0-42 chaingrab on some characters? especially when olimar can combo usmash into itself multiple times at low percents for more damage on more characters? waiors CG makes no matchups broken

 

[Almas]

Pika's hitbox during his downthrow has nothing to do with his throw. I'm not sure how many times I've stated it. It's like Mario/Luigi's Backthrow: while they're spinning the person around, they have a hitbox out. That doesn't mean that changing that specific hitbox will have any impact on the throw.

 

[The Cape]

Changing the grab box Almas, not the hitbox.

Shorten his range basically.

 

[Deleted member]

can't ce done with this code, at least I very much doubt it.

when I finally make some time to write a throw modifier, it will probably be possible to do all the tricks with it as we can do with normal hitboxes.

 

[Deleted member]

ok I finally finished the hitbox move code.
see my updated first post for details

 

[Deleted member]

NOTICE
I updated the write adress, since the previous was wrong.

last time I'll calculate hex adress by head.

 

[shanus]

nice paprika, I'll test it out when I get home end of weekend

 

[Shell]

I'll be doing some extensive tests either tonight or tomorrow afternoon.