Hit You Again- RIT's got hype 4/10

[san.]

Hope I can come to this. I'll be really busy during that time, so I cant guarantee anything.

 

[PikaPika!]

Last I checked when you came to Smash Club I was goin even with you guy. Maybe you just playin the wrong people here.

MM or tournies are the only time people actually try so in saying that.
MM?

 

[MCmaniacDBR]

MM or tournies are the only time people actually try so in saying that.
MM?

Name your price and Bo5 or Bo3? Also i suggest doing it at a time other than this tourney since it seems there won't be time for MMs at this

 

[PikaPika!]

This Wednesday, Friday, at smash club or Saturday, Sunday at jesses Bo3 MLG rules

 

[Dr. Grandpa]

MLG RULES i wanna watch yo!!!!!!!! i wanna mm the winner lol

 

[RTF]

left out?

From what I've seen, ppl have grown mad tight lately. Simply join us if you want.


Just saying:

Jesse's is much more fun than RIT imo. I'm at RIT all day for 5 days. I don't wanna stay there all of Friday too. Some fun people/events are at Jesse's that we can't see/do at RIT. Even food is more accessible. Rides are an issue either way. If anyone feels 'stuck' at RIT, just talk to people and chances are they/we will include you. Jump on the bandwagon ffs. There is brawl at Jesse's - especially lately. Jesse welcomes (close to literally) everyone. Mad lve. I wish people like Erik/Foy could be make more appearances, but that's life.

Just saying2:

Leaving behind "casuals" is part f life. ****sux, ik. Sometimes you grow out of something.

 

[MCmaniacDBR]

This Wednesday, Friday, at smash club or Saturday, Sunday at jesses Bo3 MLG rules

Not sure if I'll be able to make EGS tomorrow night again this week, but definitely will make Friday night smash club. Still haven't given me a price.


To RTF
I've never been to Jesse's once. Not to say I haven't wanted to go because at his last smashfest when cura and san were there I definitely did but didn't have time since most of my weekends I spend working. However my viewpoint on going to Jesse's has also dramatically changed since that last smashfest due to the fact that I heard there was an excessively large amount of people there smoking pot, which I don't have any problem with people that partake in that lifestyle, however I would not like to be within the vicinity of the substance and thus as far as I'm concerned, smash club is just fine for me.

 

[Sheth]

Read: Moss wants moar DK *** to MK all over.

>Since I'm not Foy, I will add "just kidding"

 

[hubble]

pot

Its a really chill enviornment with rochester melee, we dont force you to do or get involved with anything you dont want to.

Just saying.

 

[Slashy]

What I'm getting from this topic:

Smash Club- Brawl and its offshoots

Jesse's - Melee

 

[Sheth]

That's kiiinda just how it is now, tho. There's only a little moar brawl than melee, and brawl+ is usually only a small handful of people on one TV for ****s and giggles that goes on and off half the night (guy who brings it ships out early, generally speaking.)

ALSO, what would be a huge thing to note is that we have MAAAAASSIVE space we use on smash club fridays now. It's literally so large that the the TV with no volume-down that goggles has (that I think belongs to Jesse, right?) isn't even loud enough to bother with this much space. It's just loud, not AGH WHY.

I'm cool with reasons for Jesse's, but I'd love it if more people came to smash club at least semi-regularly inbetween Jesse weeks.

 

[Kantō]

yea i want to everyone to know that even though some of us smoke pot doesnt make us bad people. and by no means is anyone else expected to do so by means of peer pressure. i myself am a legalizing pot supporter but i also understand that its nt for everyone. especially in a enviroment such as smash where there are kids around soetimes.

 

[RTF]

brawl and melee are mutually exclusive

tl;dr: n


Melee:
Some at RIT play melee throughout the week. It's always organized/available on Wednesdays and (afaik) Fridays too. About two weeks ago most Meléeians started going to Jesse's for a good portion of Fri-Sunday.

Brawl:
Dunno what happens throughout the week, but I have heard of small get-togethers at RIT. Wed/Friday organizings happens at RIT. Sometimes Brawlers go to Jesses and play there on weekends.

64:
Is also available at Jesse's... in case anyone was wondering. I wouldn't be surprised if someone at RIT had it too.


also: I agree with Kantō.

 

[da K.I.D.]

to be honest, RIT people havent gotten any better except seth and moss they are 2 lazy to learn and play competitively they r only just playin for fun even if i **** em consistently

You need to learn to respect people and learn that you shouldnt be talking down to people just because you care more about a video game than others do. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to stay casual with the game, as long as its fun in what ever way you do it, there shouldnt be an issue.

Well, he started doing the smash fests and everyone stopped coming to smash club... it's a problem.

I agree,

RIT kids have shown a lot of improvement.

agreed.

Oof, my honor! 'cept that we don't have Mike most times no more, who definitely surpassed my 'turned up to 11' some time ago. And I'm loud talking or yelling; nothing can be done. That said, it's not as silly as it used to be. Partially because the volume-down-less TV can't be spoken over.

ALSO, what would be a huge thing to note is that we have MAAAAASSIVE space we use on smash club fridays now. It's literally so large that the the TV with no volume-down that goggles has (that I think belongs to Jesse, right?) isn't even loud enough to bother with this much space. It's just loud, not AGH WHY.

I'm cool with reasons for Jesse's, but I'd love it if more people came to smash club at least semi-regularly inbetween Jesse weeks.

This is true as well. Massively. People that werent completely content with smash club previously should give it another try, pretty much all circumstances have improved drastically.

Probably very little, which is why some of us are planning on reserving RITchies afterwards for this purpose.

This seemed like a really good idea but im thinking that the idea of just going to Jesses place afterwards, is kind of overshadowing it.

I don't find it worth investing time in trying to get better at Brawl, I just feel too limited in what I can do in that game.

Theres just... SOOOOO many ways I could respond to this. lol.

MM or tournies are the only time people actually try so in saying that.
MM?

1. You soundin reeeeeally salty right now.
2. I accept your MM offer.

MLG RULES i wanna watch yo!!!!!!!! i wanna mm the winner lol

You gotta MM me first. You dont get to play anybody else until you beat me. =P

What I'm getting from this topic:

Smash Club- Brawl and its offshoots

Jesse's - Melee

this is how Ive felt for a while now.

The thing is, its not explicitly brawl-here and melee-there. Its getting more to the point where its just a group thing. Where most of the melee people happen to be super buddy buddy and they all hang at jesses house, leaving brawl people and melee people that arent part of the clique, like scud misslile, and pyro, to just play by themselves at RIT, and then people wonder why certain people are getting better and some arent.

I kinda feel like the only reason Im allowed there is cause Ive been close to jesse for a while now, and I kinda think im a big part of the reason we are where we are as a whole. oh and for some stupid reason, I still beat people in melee, Otherwise, Id just be another random loud brawl kid.

 

[Slashy]

My cell phone messed up.

 

[hubble]

Yo you guys are making Jesse's place seem super exclusive.

ITS NOT.

BRING EVERYONE.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Its hard to get everyone over there. And when those same people seem so reluctant to come over to the school it kinda puts forth that impression.

 

[RTF]

wrds

Are you cute? Let's make babies.

 

[Slashy]

Anyway, I just don't see how reinvesting my time in Brawl could be anything of useful compared to Brawl+, Brawl-, or 64. Some characters are absolutely useless (including my + secondary Ganondorf) (oh and 3/4ths of all matches in Brawl at Smash Club have Metaknight present), I have to remember a plenty of things that are banned, and I only have a handful of stages to play on. I recently played Brawl again and I realized that anytime I tried to follow up with any attack string I would get attacked back.

It's hard to go from 64, Brawl+, Brawl- which glorify offensive play to Brawl which, in my observations, shuns it.

Sure Brawl has a large following, but is that the only thing good about it? I mean sure I can make lots of money if I get good at it, but I'll never enjoy playing a character based on tier position, and the skill ceiling is so low that to me it will be mostly about predicting a few important moves and completely mastering the very few strategies it takes to win. Please don't praise M2K's reasons for playing Brawl.

The only reasons I believe that Brawl is the most commonly played Smash game competitively is:

1. It's new
2. Compared to its variants , it has been around the longest and has had the most amount of time to develop
3. It's unhacked, and perfectly legal
4. It's the original, and some people just prefer its type of gameplay
5. It was designed for casual play, it's very easy to pick up

Brawl's metagame obviously has issues, way too many techniques are banned, and there are plenty of limitations that need to be put in the game.

I've never actually seen a decent argument outside of what I mentioned above for how Brawl is superior to any of its variants, and I don't find any of those arguments to be very good arguments. When we're speaking about competitive play, both Brawl's metagame and Brawl+'s metagames are arguably diversions of what Sakurai intended. When talking about casual play Brawl- almost lives perfectly to what Sakurai probably intended this game to be like, chaotic fests where it's easy to play and everyone has a variety of useful options.

 

[da K.I.D.]

even if he wasnt bannable, a ton of matches in brawl would have mk in them, since hes pretty BA as a character.

every character in brawl is playable in doubles... my/neils ganon **** in doubles.

64 only has like 4-5 tourney legal stages and melee has less than 10. even the most conservative brawl stage list have at least a dozen...

not to mention that the stuff that is banned is unconventional stuff that is matchup dependant anyway, that most people cant or dont even do.

M2K play the game because it gets him payed. I dont even know why he was brought up.

My main qualms with brawl plus are:

1. The community people that hauck it and bash brawl every chance they get.
2. The fact that its way too easy.
3. The fact that its always changing and isnt consistent.

1 isnt an issue here anymore. but 2 and 3 bother me greatly because it just seems like people that cant space/mindgame/outplay people just decided to change the game and make it flashy, sacrificing a lot of depth.

ill money match anybody in brawl + to prove it. and I havent played the game in months

 

[Acton]

Not sure if I'll be able to make EGS tomorrow night again this week, but definitely will make Friday night smash club. Still haven't given me a price.


To RTF
I've never been to Jesse's once. Not to say I haven't wanted to go because at his last smashfest when cura and san were there I definitely did but didn't have time since most of my weekends I spend working. However my viewpoint on going to Jesse's has also dramatically changed since that last smashfest due to the fact that I heard there was an excessively large amount of people there smoking pot, which I don't have any problem with people that partake in that lifestyle, however I would not like to be within the vicinity of the substance and thus as far as I'm concerned, smash club is just fine for me.

I can relate to you on the whole weed thing, I don't smoke it either but I don't judge others for it. . . but I can see why some might feel uncomfortable.

But really they go and smoke it out on the porch, not inside. You'll be playing brawl/melee so much you won't even notice. People drink there too and if you don't drink thats fine. I don't drink unless its a REALLY special occasion. . . .people at jesse's will get loud when they are drunk. But whatever if your getting a headache just step outside and eat for an hour somewhere or just tune it out.

It's not really that big of a deal. People are just having fun. I say live and let live. All the people that got drunk at Jesse's last smashfest where able to control themselves enough to where it wasn't a problem for me. I mean I heard someone threw up. . . -cough- But whatever, I didn't even know about that **** until the next day. And I got in mad matches with XXX San Dr G , goggles before he left etc. I was up unitl 7 in the morning playing with San, and I went over to this coffee place right across the street and I was mad hype at like 5am playing brawl LOOOOL. I felt like **** at about 10am, but in hind sight I'm happy that I went.

Plus finally getting to go to bed at like 3pm that sunday never felt sooo good. xD

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

@ "Da K.I.D" - All 3 of those are wrong dude, you need to pay attention, or maybe LISTEN.

B+ being too easy is pretty lol though. =/

 

[Slashy]

Brawl+ went Final on Sunday, there are no more gameplay or character changes.

One reason you can beat someone in Brawl+ is because you're using options and strategies that are just as or even more helpful in Brawl+ as they are in Brawl, in that respect Brawl+ isn't such a drastic change, some characters have actually received very few changes. Goggles, since you know your character very well, and don't overly camp, you're obviously going to do much better in Brawl+

If you're playing an Ice Climbers main who abused the chain grab in Brawl, they will get owned every match. ROB mains who think that they can easily camp their way to victory will find that they will get owned by pressure.

This is not a matter of Brawl+ being too easy, this is a matter of Brawl+ further rewarding your style of play.

Despite the stage selection in Brawl being greater than that of other Smash games, Brawl+ takes the cake with more than 20 tournament legal stages.

tl;dr Brawl+ is not that drastic of a change, and Goggles playing in more tournaments against more players in Brawl leads him to be a better player in Brawl+ because of the strategies he uses.

 

[[TSON]]

lol b+ is hard in its own way and if you're playing someone who remotely knows what they're doing you realize that it isn't easy when you start getting comboed across the stage. meanwhile in brawl you're too busy planking for anything to go down.

i admit b+ is easier than brawl because of it rewarding offensive play more but thats the problem with brawl. its all defensive. i thought smash was fighting games, not shieldgrabbing games or invincibility hogging olympics.

tru fax

 

[da K.I.D.]

@ "Da K.I.D" - All 3 of those are wrong dude, you need to pay attention, or maybe LISTEN.

B+ being too easy is pretty lol though. =/

sounds like you want to show up to this and take me up on this money match offer.

also, pikapika will beat anybody in mel---... brawl plus. and he plays it less than I do.

im riding on lollerskates cause of how defensive you got tho.

EDIT:
I was gonna actually going to attempt to try the game again, but after that last comment, yea screw it... not worth it. You just prove my point further...

Ill still take any money match offers tho.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

I don't think I live anywhere near you guys anyway, I'm in MD. D:

 

[PikaPika!]

I've played B+ once and was tearing kids up who were in a tournament for it using my melee pika skills put into B+.

 

[PikaPika!]

I don't think I live anywhere near you guys anyway, I'm in MD. D:

What did you name search for brawl + in case anyone was bashing it? I've never even heard of you before why are you in our thread.

 

[Slashy]

What did you name search for brawl + in case anyone was bashing it? I've never even heard of you before why are you in our thread.

I posted my arguments in the Brawl+ chat to make sure I had my facts straight, Guy took it as an opportunity to embarrass himself and the WBR. You'll have to forgive him, he's 12 and homeschooled. He's too immature to hold a serious argument.

 

[Andarel]

EDIT: Yeah, Slashy posted one of his responses in #brawlplus to see if people agreed with him. Some people just jump on that sort of thing.

You'll have to excuse Guy, K.I.D. Conversational diplomacy isn't his strong point (though perhaps he'll eventually reach bull-in-a-china-shop levels of tact).

To be fair though, he does have some small bit of accuracy behind what he says. Well -

"My main qualms with brawl plus are:

1. The community people that hauck it and bash brawl every chance they get.
2. The fact that its way too easy.
3. The fact that its always changing and isnt consistent."

At point 1, I don't think much needs to be said. There are a couple of people in the community who are a bit fanatical in defense of B+ and you pretty much just need to ignore them - there are problems with every playerbase.

Point 3 is notable because the Gold release just came out two days ago, which means it's gonna be constant for quite a while. The stuff now that's changing is just bugfixes, and even recently releases have slowed significantly and the major changes have been when a huge part of the B+ community wants it. Erratic behavior is much less of an issue compared to during the 4.0 days when we had major changes coming out every week or two.

Point 2...well, you're going to have to test that out for yourself, really. If you last played some time ago (do you remember the build?), there are going to be lots of changes - more of a shift towards game control over combos, taking apart the early Brawl+ (3.4 - 5.0RC1) system of autocombos for most characters and focusing more on tech chasing and DI. While I can't make any promises as to which you find easier (and having played Melee makes B+ a good bit more accessible, if only because the speed changes and hitstun are easier to digest), I wouldn't be surprised if the latest Brawl+ is different and a good bit tougher. Especially with auto-DI angles (361* / Sakurai angles) removed and stage boundaries reduced to make killing easier and reward more offensive play.

Anyhow, yeah. I guess that sounds a bit like a marketing pitch - not that it isn't. Just gonna end it with this: it's a great mod for a decent game, and it really doesn't hurt to try it out. Don't let an aggressive (fanatical?) vocal minority turn you off from that.

 

[Sheth]

Mm. I won't deny that brawl's defensiveness can be viewed negatively, but it's also positive in some aspects (that aren't planking and alternating aerials just out of range of each other trying to get the other person to walk in, like I lol at in some MK mirrors at times.)

You can view the defensiveness as a way to keep people's thinking hats on. It's not possible to get out of everything, and in some cases, you have to read an opponent's reaction to keep something going, right? You can't go to autopilot just because you've discovered something works or only has one escape that can be dealt with in some manner you'll try to work to thwart. Viewpoints are huge. That's part of the reason the defense is big to me. You don't make an error and lose to muscle memory.

-But that example is more about combo breaks, which is debatable as to their presence in brawl.
Anywho, hype for tourney. Think I railed both the UR people I talked to into coming for it (and the friday before, though only eric can make it next week if he gets a ride,) so that'll be good.

 

[darkoblivion12]

I'm throwing in my 2 cents (mostly cuz it's my thread).
It is my belief that brawl+ is disappointing. With the tools available, and the hacking potential i have seen come out of the smash workshop, why did you settle for crap? Brawl+ is less fun than brawl for me.

Also take note: I play melee, not brawl, so if brawl+ was trying to target us melee guys, it kind of failed.

 

[altairian]

lol b+ is hard in its own way and if you're playing someone who remotely knows what they're doing you realize that it isn't easy when you start getting comboed across the stage. meanwhile in brawl you're too busy planking for anything to go down.

i admit b+ is easier than brawl because of it rewarding offensive play more but thats the problem with brawl. its all defensive. i thought smash was fighting games, not shieldgrabbing games or invincibility hogging olympics.

tru fax

I like people contradicting themselves in the span of 4 sentences. It makes for a good time.

This whole issue is very, very simple. If you don't like brawl, don't play it.

Also every fighting game is defensive. (I'd love to see someone play street fighter without blocking) Brawl just happens to be the only one that doesn't have combos. Personally I like it that way.

 

[Slashy]

I'm throwing in my 2 cents (mostly cuz it's my thread).
It is my belief that brawl+ is disappointing. With the tools available, and the hacking potential i have seen come out of the smash workshop, why did you settle for crap? Brawl+ is less fun than brawl for me.

Also take note: I play melee, not brawl, so if brawl+ was trying to target us melee guys, it kind of failed.

BRAWL+ IS NOT MELEE 2.0

Brawl+ aimed originally for Melee players, but eventually became the game for Melee players that liked Brawl. Brawl+ is NOT trying to be Melee, it's trying to be an improved version of Brawl.

If you want to see hacking tools at work to create an even deeper fighting game, you're looking for Project:M, which is trying to be as much of a Melee clone as possible using Brawl's engine, characters, and stages.

Project:M is a game that is being deliberately made for Melee players in mind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxA9jHvfWPc
http://www.youtube.com/watch#v=xjGz2oDPU3s

If you don't like Project:M when it is released, then you're probably going to be in the minority.

I like people contradicting themselves in the span of 4 sentences. It makes for a good time.

This whole issue is very, very simple. If you don't like brawl, don't play it.

Also every fighting game is defensive. (I'd love to see someone play street fighter without blocking) Brawl just happens to be the only one that doesn't have combos. Personally I like it that way.

Asuka 120% might be one of the few highly offensive fighting games.

 

[Kantō]

i love brawl +.....



thats what i think...

 

[RTF]

every character in brawl is playable in doubles... my/neils ganon **** in doubles.

most def - Sam's gann and I wrecked stuff.

@Acton:
I'm pretty sure most aren't going to drink anytime soon.

What did you name search for brawl + in case anyone was bashing it? I've never even heard of you before why are you in our thread.

XFD

 

[Andarel]

every character in brawl is playable in doubles... my/neils ganon **** in doubles.

Debatable, mainly because doubles almost always eventually turn into singles, even if only for a stock. Still, Brawl doubles are pretty fun - they're much more aggressive than singles, at least in my experience, because you need to be actively supporting your teammate and just setting up camp isn't anywhere near as useful.

If you guys don't feel like discussing B+ then I'll see if I can get the +ers to stop (no promises, there's only so much I can do ) before the tourney thread gets derailed further. But since there are some legit comments...

This whole issue is very, very simple. If you don't like brawl, don't play it.

Also every fighting game is defensive. (I'd love to see someone play street fighter without blocking) Brawl just happens to be the only one that doesn't have combos. Personally I like it that way.

Brawl's a crossover game. What if you like the mechanics of Melee and/or 64, but want to play a new character or on a new stage? How about things like footstooling or RARing? Brawl has things going for it, and every person has the right to play games however they choose - especially after so many of us got together and decided to let Brawl be played the way we want to play it. But I suppose the issue is very simple - if you don't like Brawl, don't play it. Play 64 or Melee, or pick up any of the mods (of which Brawl+ is the most developed) and play that.

As for fighting games, defense is always important - that doesn't make a fighter defensive. Fighters are defensive when players are rewarded for not attacking: SF4 is more defensive than the other street fighter games because your options are limited when you attack (though it has some canceling) and punishing is, in my experience, a bit easier than in other Street Fighter games. You want to see an offensive fighter? MvC2, or, more lately, TvC. The VS games are offensive because having multiple characters means you get a LOT more pressure when you go on the attack, so the defender has a lot more trouble breaking in and hitting you. It's helpful, in an offensive fighter, to do your spacing with less moving in and out of range and more attacks (on guard or whiffed if it comes down to it, and preferably safe, and preferably with an assist helping you out in the VS games).

It is my belief that brawl+ is disappointing. With the tools available, and the hacking potential i have seen come out of the smash workshop, why did you settle for crap? Brawl+ is less fun than brawl for me.

What do you mean by "settling for crap?" I know I'm biased, but for the most part B+ is some pretty quality work. On the other hand, if you're just looking at it trying to find a new Melee...it's not for you, I suppose. B+ is a modified Brawl, and was always meant to be that and only that.

You can view the defensiveness as a way to keep people's thinking hats on. It's not possible to get out of everything, and in some cases, you have to read an opponent's reaction to keep something going, right? You can't go to autopilot just because you've discovered something works or only has one escape that can be dealt with in some manner you'll try to work to thwart. Viewpoints are huge. That's part of the reason the defense is big to me. You don't make an error and lose to muscle memory.

That's true, and that's the main reason moves automatically comboing into each other was toned down heavily in B+. The muscle memory argument holds most strongly for traditional ("combo") fighters and, sometimes, for Melee where several of the most advanced techs rely heavily on perfecting muscle memory.

If you take out autocombos, then speeding up the game keeps the thoughtfulness...but makes people think faster. As long as you NEED to have a feel for what your opponent is going to do in order to keep up a combo - which is the focus of B+ - then continually using one move or tactic is not necessarily a winning strategy. That's why moves like Snake's ftilt and nades, MK's fair (with increased gravity, it got an unintended huge bonus to spammability), and Fox's utilt were specifically nerfed to make them less spammable. On the other hand, in any good fighter you should end up with counters to pretty much any tactic - even in super-fast, super-aggressive games like MvC2, where games can be won on the back of massive beam spam, players still end up in games where they need to immediately think up the best methods of approaching and defending, even if the combos themselves are pretty much muscle memory. In MvC2, the "autopilot" argument never really applies, because sure you can go autopilot during combos but you need to get them perfect...but other than that you need to be thinking on your feet at all times to get those combos in. In +, it's similar though the game is less aggressive and combos aren't autopilot. You end up with more time to think, but you need to follow DI and figure out your opponent's counters. Getting it wrong - especially against characters with tricks like MK's shuttle loop - will get you comboed, or, at worst, gimped by the person you were comboing. Because it's easier to get out of combos in Brawl (due to the airdodge system and people moving slower), it's often better to stay back and try and counter an opponent who has more time to think: in both games your thinking cap is on, but in Plus both players have a much tighter timer.

What did you name search for brawl + in case anyone was bashing it? I've never even heard of you before why are you in our thread.

I wouldn't be surprised, actually. -__-
Anyhow, thread's kind of gotten derailed. Blah.

 

[RTF]

Anyhow, thread's kind of gotten derailed. Blah.

I beg t differ.

 

[Andarel]

Source on that image? It looks familiar, but I can't place it...

 

[Slashy]

Well said Andarel