Higurashi Mafia - Game Over! Who won?

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Acro. Don't just pop up and not explain things. Why?

 

[JTB]

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Deadline 10/23, 11:59 PM EST

JO_OEY [2] tHe-Man, Acrostic
tHe-Man [0]
Acrostic [0]
Crimson King [0]
Red Ryu [0]
ORI_bro [0]
felipe_9595 [1] Red Ryu
Auspher [1] Sworddancer
J [1] SangfroidWarrior
SangfroidWarrior [0]
Sworddancer [1] Gheb
Balatro [0]
Gheb [0]

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@Acro. Don't just pop up and not explain things. Why?

It sounds like good reasoning. I mean, it's hard to have decent reasoning so early in the game, so I'm impressed.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

...What? I meant, why are you voting JO_OEY, why do you think me and RR are scum, and why do you like J and Auspher?

 

[felipe_9595]

I am willing to lynch RR, Joey or Auspher today. Any of them is a good lynch for me.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll get to larger posts when I'm not on my phone.

Felipe is anyone you think is scum not an OMGUS?

Acro, why is Auspher scum?

 

[felipe_9595]

I'll get to larger posts when I'm not on my phone.

Felipe is anyone you think is scum not an OMGUS?

Acro, why is Auspher scum?

 

[felipe_9595]

Auspher is scummy for being a sheep and not having an own opinion.

 

[Crimson King]

Oy, great timing for me. Had a busy weekend, so I will try to catch up by tonight.

 

[Dooms]

Can you go more into detail as to why the interaction with Swords made him go into leaning-scummy?

I'm seeing the opposite personally.

First off, it seemed like he was trying to be as straight forward as possible to avoid explaining things. Example would be #56. He doesn't explain why the reasoning is good at all or why he agrees with it. He just says "I simply agree with it" which seems like a way to try to avoid explaining things.

It seems like he also only chooses to respond to specific things. If it was once or twice, I would understand, but looking through the second page (40 ppp) again, I realize that he missed a few things. A list would be:

#55 - Also what's your read on Felipe right now?
[url=http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13517999&postcount=59]#59 - However, I thought you were impressed by it?

Small list, but considering that he disappeared after making very few responses to Swords... yeah.

Joey, how do you feel specifically on the part where Auspher said that he was "impressed" with Acrostic.

Also, I brought out the question about the equality of opinions because of this:



Here, you dismissed my attack (at least it seemed like that, if this is not the case then feel free to clarify) as an attack that was invalid because I simply had a disagreeing mindset. However, that's not a reason to dismiss the attack. Saying "Oh you just disagree with a mindset so it's invalid" is the equivalent of saying "oh that's just your opinion so it's invalid." Obviously it's my opinion, and just because someone opposes it doesn't make it equal to mine (or mine equal to theirs).

Will clarify on the ??? for you in a little bit, gotta run an errand.

The word impressed doesn't change my opinion that I thought he honestly felt that way. I don't understand why you are/were trying to push this (I don't remember at this point if you still are XD). Just because you're not impressed with something doesn't make it scummy when someone else is. Thats what it seems like you're trying to say, anyways.

You didn't think it was impressive, but he did. Calling him scummy for that is pretty much calling him scummy because he has a different mindset than you. If he really feels that its impressive, then hes going to agree with it and its going to effect his reads. Does that make any sense?

Did you ever clarify the "???"?

Want reasoning?

1- You jumped on the wagon 3 minutes after, with the excuse of the "Elaborate Reasoning" of Acrostic

2- later, when SW asked you, you said tehre was nothing to go on, so it was worth. How is worth to town to lynch someone, without even reading him, in the beginning of the day????

I don't like this reasoning. It looks like you made it up to justify your suspicion instead of having reasoning for your suspicion, if that makes any sense. You suspected and then made up reasoning for it, basically. Especially since you added the first part even though you originally said the suspicion was only for his responses.

This was referring to Joey's 60:



Here he is talking about me vs. Auspher.

When he said "On one side," he described something about Auspher. However, when he said "on the other side," he again described something about Auspher. Since I thought he was contrasting both me and Auspher, that I naturally would have to be on "the other side." However, I wasn't, which confused me.

One side is me liking Auspher for his original post to Acrostic for being honest.

The other side is me disliking Auspher for his responses to you. This goes to the Red Ryu quote as well that asked abuot this.

Okay, so we want to narrow down the focus here. There's four players here who can reasonably be lynched today, so we want to get everyone to weigh in on EACH of them. Don't just tell us which one you would be most willing to part with. Your choices are:

Joey, the uncommital,
RR, the off-topic,
Auspher, the strangely defensive,
and Sworddancer, the town lyncher.

There's more than enough content here to form a read on each of these players, that's why they're here, so don't give us some bull**** cop-out answers as we will call you on it.

We'd be willing to lynch most of them. There's only one who we would miss at this point.

Auspher. RR isn't that bad, and I think Swords is townie after reviewing his conversation with Auspher. Nothing else to base it off of so far though. Will look for more stuff for this read after I'm done responding/pointing out specific things I feel strongly towards/defending myself .

I am disappointed in JO_OEY for getting too interested with regards to Swords/Auspher. In the last game I was in with JO_OEY, he made a great initial impression in how he was able to spread reads around with each player in relation to their post. I felt good about his slot being town at an early point in the game. As for the second slot, I don't want to disclose it at this time as I believe they are being hindered by RVS and will step up their game at a later point.

I have had experience with games where players who have played below my expectations have turned out scum since there was such a discrepancy between what I observed between their town play and their scum play. They were good at expressing curiosity in finding scum, but not nearly as good as attempting to emulate it. I will be keeping tabs on these players as we transition into later today and even mid-game to see how they pan out.

-shrug- At first part. It was all that was happening besides Ryker and J talking, both of which were things I felt null towards, so .

Second part makes me feel like you're trying to make your opinion stronger than it really is. "People that play below my expectations have been scum since their town and scum play were different." Is pretty much what the first line said. If that is not what you meant for it to be, then please explain what you were trying to get to?

Finished page 2 and I have a few things I want to respond to before I continue. I'll give my notes after a full read-up.



I feel flattered that he considers me a threating player but I don't feel that it was completely necessary. It may have been helpful for some of the newbies but not for other players. He didn't need to do that but not doing so when somebody had asked him to would have looked bad. What do you think of it? What are you gaining from this line of questioning, being as you targeted the other three he has on his list?



I don't necessarily agree with this, as has been stated before by Acrostic. Could you explain your reasoning for this a little more? Why do you think scum would automatically buddy up to their scummates?



Vote: J

Nothing is really gonna stop you, is it? So, go ahead, I guess. Do I get to mess with you again this game?

The fact that you're asking Swords about that question makes me feel happy inside. I like you so far this game XD.

I don't think Auspher ever responded to you asking about the scum mates, by the way.

Page 3 done. More things to ask about.



Could you explain to me how this helps us later on in the game besides figuring out how people play. Could you explain that part as well?



Nobody honestly knows unless they are scum, and scum aren't going to tell you because it will out them. I get that you are trying to slip someone up by getting them to tell you but it's not going to work and it's hardly going to get people to think that you are town off of this null point.



Alright. IIRC, you're the third person to have said something like this. Would you mind elaborating on this?

Also, @Everyone that has made a similar point to this one, could you please explain why you think that?

Look up at the first thing I responded to I believe. It explains how I feel about that there! c:

Just finished my read-through (which took entirely too long because I tend to procrastinate). I've already commented on things that I think should be brought to light and/or answered so if I had a question for you it would be appreciated if you answered, preferebly soon.

As per my reads, there is one questionmark I need to get out of the way first: Crimson King. I'm not sure if you have posted yet but I can't remember anything.

The first 4 in response to tHe-Man, the rest are my own:

Auspher, no offense but I don't really care for you right now and you'd probably be my most likely choice for a lynch candidate today. Your first post just kind of started it, but I can see where you are coming from. What I really don't like is that you aren't necessarily supporting your own reads but the reads of others, and you seem to be automatically assuming that a person that doesn't like you must be scum. Regardless, I am willing to give you a chance since you are technically new. That being said, could I get you read on Balatro, Gheb, and Joey?

Swords I am liking this game, and the back and forth between him and tHe-Man make it seem like TvT. He seems to have some pretty good reads and is avidly questiong and working towards town's goal. I like some of his arguments as well. I will have to keep wary of him but, for now, I'm not too worried.

RR I have no issue with except for the fact that he has yet to really help town besides his RVS rants. I wouldn't want him lynched toDay but, if it comes down to him or a NL, I'd vote for him but, otherwise, no.

Joey, again, I have no issues with. Some of his arguments are pretty weird but it does seem like he is trying. Not much else. Like with RR, I'd vote for him if it came down to that or a NL but, right now, I wouldn't explicitly vote for him.

I have a feeling tHe-Man is town. He has been pushing people pretty well and has seemingly made progress for town but he is definitely one to be wary of.

Acrostic I just don't know. I already stated that I had an issue reading him.

ORI I can't even remember much from so nothing really there.

felipe I kind of like but, at the same time, I'm not so sure. Haven't seen a lot I especially like from him.

J I'm just wary of and have him as a null because most of his posts don't contain anything helpful in figuring out his allignment.

Balatro I'm not sure about.

Gheb... Again, not sure about. I kind of like him but I don't like that he pushed something based off of meta.

All in all, way too many null reads and only one prominent scum read (which is pretty weak)

I don't remember why I quoted this... I think I liked this, but I don't rememebr why . If I remember, I'll come back to this (yeah... this is mostly a note to myself XD).

The intention is to see who would answer and see why they would, I wanted to see how Acro would respond to me posting like that.

Swords gained scum points for trying to end RvS like that. Which is why he has my attention. RvS is where I can figure out how people are going to play the game and see how people respond to one another, I do not want it to end unless too much time passes for everyone to post, which is has for CK.

I don't like it because it will stop the flow of info.

Also point out my fluffy posts and tell me, are you sure there was no point to all my posts before?



Swords wants me to look at this.

I do not know what Joey is refering to here with the other side.



Why is Auspher listed as a lynch target right now? He's screaming new town to me.

Joey is confusing me and not being clear, which is typical of Joey if I know his meta. He flip flops and is umcommited as town and scum, it's not a tell for him.

i'll wait for you to show me all my nothing so far.

Swords is a town lyncher? Elaborate on this.



Leaning what? be clear what this means word wise.



You answered this right here. I'm learning how unfamiliars play and seeing how people are responding.



It's useful to get the game started and we should not revel in it to long. It is just as useful as the actual game on D1 imo.

I did joke around in RvS, to get info.

~

RvS is over if it wasn't clear move onto legit discussion.

I'm not going to say that I like any of this, because disliking Swords for ending RVS is a little weird, but I hope that you understand my dislike for Auspher and what I was talking about with the two side thing now.

Alright then, down to business.



Joey has done nothing while still being here. He treats handing out stances like donating vital organs. He can go in a heartbeat.

J has given nothing, though I have not said he has done nothing. Can go as well.

ORI, Crimson King, and Felipe are all non-entities that need vigging. Someone point me out any others that I have missed.

RR is higher on town-scum list than the above J or Joey, but that doesn't even get him to null. Although I can support his Felipe vote, it's painfully easy to make so no town points are awarded. Would not lynch at this point with better targets around.

Both Sworddancer and Acrostic, I want to see more from. I want neither to continue *****footing around. I really don't care about pushes on null slots (Felipe, ORI, or CK). I want to see both of their top suspects and a concentrated push. If they're smart, that's going to be a push on Joey.

What? I treat giving out stances like giving out vital organs? o_O'. Is this because I didn't want to vote Swords or Auspher? XD.

Also, LOL. You do realize I was here for page 2 and part of page 3 and that was it, right? If you're going to say that I've done nothing while still being here, at least realize that I was only here for Auspher v Swords and some (key word is some) discussion with you, J, Acro, Swords, and RR (All of which wasn't anything to point out alignment to me (while I was here anyways)). You're acting like I've been here for the whole game when I've really only been here during the very beginning.

Not really. He dodged giving me a solid answer which I disliked. He mentioned something about me not being specific with the question when it was fairly obvious what I was asking. That being said, like Gheb this game. The rest of his play has outweighed that thus far. If he starts being elusive with giving me reads, then we'll have an issue.

I know this isn't directed at me, but this made me thing: You still haven't answered me when I asked you to explain what you meant by "Turning up information". Obvious to you =/= obvious to me, if that wasn't obvious. (lol)

Vote: JO_OEY

Fos: Sangfroid, Red Ryu

Who I don't want lynched: J, Auspher

BBBB)

Oh.

Love you too?

Explain some of this please haha.

I am willing to lynch RR, Joey or Auspher today. Any of them is a good lynch for me.

Not a single explanation came out that day.

Yeah, hes actually right on this one, Auspher. I don't know about RR, but I never called him suspicious in the least.

Auspher is scummy for being a sheep and not having an own opinion.

I'm pretty sure he had an opinion on you, and I'm pretty sure he stuck to it for a while even though everyone else left you. Is that him being a sheep? Is that him not having his own opinion

Reads so far (Warning: Nulls everywhere XD):

Town:
Sworddancer
Sang

Leaning Scum:
TheMan (Very slight lean, don't like his reasoning on me, and it seems like hes trying to push something that isn't really there (me being there the whole game) but other than that I haven't seen anything to make me think hes scummy. Pretty much a null)
Acrostic (For that second paragraph I talked about)

Scum:
Felipe
Auspher

Vote: Auspher

Going to re-read to gain opinions on some of the nulls.

 

[Dooms]

Oh, if I missed anything, please tell me so I can respond asap!

Sorry about messing up the two links at the top by the way.

#55 - Also what's your read on Felipe right now?
#59 - However, I thought you were impressed by it?

Fixed? :'D

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I am willing to lynch RR, Joey or Auspher today. Any of them is a good lynch for me.

What is up with people coming in, saying stuff like that (especially a week before deadline), and not elaborating at all? Explain, please.

@Joey. Thanks for pointing out that thing about Auspher. Hadn't realized it. Moving on. So, you think that felipe and auspher are bussing each other?

Auspher, mind answering this (your original for reference as well):

I mean, I honestly think they could be mafia partners, since he did attack me right as soon as he thought feline was in danger.

I don't necessarily agree with this, as has been stated before by Acrostic. Could you explain your reasoning for this a little more? Why do you think scum would automatically buddy up to their scummates?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I had a more thorough post written out but it got eaten by a 502. Since I wanna read up on the latest posts and I'm not going to stay up that much longer I'm getting stuff I've been asked out of the way first to save time and nerves.

@Sang

Out of these 4 people the only reads I really feel worth sharing right now is that J has been suspiciously off my radar. He usually stands out more to me and we interact a lot more in general in like every game ever. This might have changed in between you asking and me answering but I'd have to read up on that first.
Second read: Acrostic is the one player out of these 4 I like the least. At first I thought his arguments in regards to Joey were rather confusing and made little sense to me ... I find it actually suspicious how he mentioned Joey awkwardly in his posts just to sheep Ryker after he asked me to join the Joey wagon. I felt like he's been waiting for that opportunity because frankly, Joey isn't that hard a lynch to get through on Day 1.

Unvote

Unless I find something more suspect in my read-up I'm going to vote Acrostic. I have reads on the other players too but there's no benefit for town in sharing them.

@Ryker / Xonar

Did you actually talk the Joey suspicion out with each other? The only explanation why you'd actually consider him scummy in my eyes is his lack of participation, which is worthless anyway because he announced to always be V/LA on weekends. I wouldn't believe you in the slightest if you told me that he's your #1 scumpick so far, especially for the small amount of reasoning you provided. You seem to be more talk than action this time around - for how much discussion you take part in and are vocal in the results aren't impressive at all.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm at a loss on how Felipe's post turned me into a prime target...

Explain that to me.

 

[Dooms]

hes actually right on this one, Auspher.

Near the bottom under the mario picture should be:

"hes actually right on this one, RR."

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Joey, do you actually think Auspher and felipe are scum together bussing each other?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Sang

After reading up, J is a null read for me. I'm going to make up my mind on his play later when I get to see him push stuff harder - that's what I usually base my reads on him on but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Dooms]

I don't see it as that, but if it was true, it wouldn't shock me too much. I didn't bring pairs into consideration, and I would prefer to do that after a flip.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Okay, back from v/la. Catching up starting from my 168.

170:

Well if it helps you then, I think this is the kind of interaction I try to not read too much into. I'm usually more concerned with who avoids to take a stance in these early situations.

Who here stands out to you for this reasoning (besides the obvious ones like CK and Ori). Is there anyone that you would be willing to lynch off of my reasoning? As of now, I haven't really seen you gun after anyone for this reasoning.

@ Auspher what about Swords strikes you as town? What do you think of my interaction with Swords?
@ Felipe how am I a null lean town read to you. What does that even mean when it comes down to a lynch.
@ tHe-Man If I told you I was disappointed in how two slots
are playing, which ones do you think I would be referring to and why?

@ J: In Gheb's #159 he refers to Xonar as Ryker, despite Xonar explicitly clarifying that he is the one speaking among the hydra pair via his female gifs and his commentary with that he dislikes Ryker voting without his attention. Do you believe that this interaction is indicative of any sort of particular relationship between the two slots?

Acro, what was the point of this questioning? What do you hope to get out of it?

Or you could just be like me and choose for the mobile device to be hidden.

My vote isn't budging. I think Felipe is in the mafia, mainly because of the defensive action he took earlier to try and pass off suspicion.

On RR, I don't think he should be accused for RvS(what does that stand for, specifically?). He's just being silly. :3

The part in bold is cool. Everything else in it is null.

185:

Where did I say you were leaning scum and Auspher town again? I don't think I said that. You and Auspher reminds me a lot of you in KvD with Fynal and it makes me wary of you but in that game you were town, regardless I still didn't like it there nor do I necessarily care for it here.

Auspher's 50 is a bit over-defensive but I could see either n00btown or n00bscum from it so I'd say it's null for me.

Answer to the bold: 105 J.

J my interaction with Fynal in KvD was purely a gambit to get the game moving. Here it was honest slight suspicion which transformed into more major suspicion right after Auspher's 50.

Explain the noob town motivation that you can see for me.

I feel flattered that he considers me a threating player but I don't feel that it was completely necessary. It may have been helpful for some of the newbies but not for other players. He didn't need to do that but not doing so when somebody had asked him to would have looked bad. What do you think of it? What are you gaining from this line of questioning, being as you targeted the other three he has on his list?

I agree that it wasn't necessary, although I don't think it was necessarily scummy. It seems like something Ryker would do regardless of alignment, just because I know that he loves to analysis players. So I take it as null.

As already explained to J, it was meant simply to be conversation stimulus.

J, I need clarification. What was your 193 all about? Were you being serious about lynching Sang there or not?

I'm just going to lay low and see what happens between the players before I change my decision. Still sticking with it for now.

This post is very anti-town, although not necessarily scummy.

Actually, RR is right (his post is up ahead). This seems really newbie town because it just all seems too obvious. Like, as anti-town as it is, I sense no self-preservation in this post. He's being very honest about his moves which is good.

Auspher can go to null. I'm not willing to just let go of the previous points against him, but nothing of his play as of late seems scummy. Some of it I actually kind of like.

unvote

To prove to myself that my read didn't come without reason. I had that read in my mind right when I saw your post [hence me insisting you stay] but I couldn't tell whether it was far-fetched or a rather simple conclusion. The fact that you hit gold with only your second guess is prove to me that it's more likely to be the latter.

I don't see how that prooved it.

Gheb, you do realize that it's entirely possible that you could just as easily be setting me up here (not accusing you of this btw, but hear me out). How do I not know that, no matter what I said, you were just going to mold your reasoning around that? I mean, you did basically ask me to incriminate myself, so how can we know that you're actually being fair about this?

What if I answered something along the lines of "iunno" to your question? Would I be off the hook?

You're whole accusation of me is entirely WIFOM and so is the evidence that you're using to back it up ("Was Sworddancer just joking or not?" "Did Sworddancer know the reasoning cus he's scum, or does he really just know himself anough to make a correct guess?").

At least you seem to be admitting that this can't really go anywhere in your previous post.

233:

Swords gained scum points for trying to end RvS like that. Which is why he has my attention. RvS is where I can figure out how people are going to play the game and see how people respond to one another, I do not want it to end unless too much time passes for everyone to post, which is has for CK.

I don't like it because it will stop the flow of info.

I poopoo on you red ryu.

This is entirely arbitrary reasoning to find me. It's not scummy if someone doesn't follow your self-set standard, especially when it's one most would disagree with. Don't be Adumb.

Also pay attention, early I was definitely trying to help out the flow of information.

Also about that own lyncher business (and this goes out to TM as well): That was due to a mistaken interpretation on my part. TM asked me if I would lynch a fluff town RR, which I interpreted as as a fluff player (as in without the assumption that you are town). Thus the misunderstanding was born.

RR I wanted you to look at that post because it was to clear up something that you were confused about earlier.

Also what info did you gain in RVS by joking around?

234:

Yes, I can see what you're talking about there. Again, I can't just let go off his scummy early game so easily, which is why I won't call him "obv. newbie town," but his recent posts do seem like that.

To answer your question, I lean towards a scummy interpretation because of how oddly worded Auspher's 49 was. I could see it as him just being friendly, but that is an awfully weird way to be friendly.

Joey has done nothing while still being here. He treats handing out stances like donating vital organs. He can go in a heartbeat.

J has given nothing, though I have not said he has done nothing. Can go as well.

ORI, Crimson King, and Felipe are all non-entities that need vigging. Someone point me out any others that I have missed.

RR is higher on town-scum list than the above J or Joey, but that doesn't even get him to null. Although I can support his Felipe vote, it's painfully easy to make so no town points are awarded. Would not lynch at this point with better targets around.

Both Sworddancer and Acrostic, I want to see more from. I want neither to continue *****footing around. I really don't care about pushes on null slots (Felipe, ORI, or CK). I want to see both of their top suspects and a concentrated push. If they're smart, that's going to be a push on Joey.

What's so bad about Joey though compared to others? I look at him, and what you're accusing him of only happened in the first day of the game. He hasn't been here, as I'm pretty sure he was going to be v/la until now.

I agree that his early unvote is weird, unnecessary, and bad for scumhunting purposes, but it's not like he's been actively acting like that like you make him out to be.

Also I'm getting to it, I was v/la.

I don't care for his push on Auspher.

Oh so it's just anything of value to you? Then I'm okay with this. =3

Why no mention of Sang in your read's post? If you look carefully, if you like me for that reason, you gotta dislike her as well.

What's so bad about my early push on Auspher?

Also nah J Sang has definitely given out stances.

Acro your 280 was kinda sloppy in the sense that you just threw out a bunch of stances immediately. I know that TM asked for them but still. I expect you to elaborate on them later.

@Felipe 285 and 287: Elaborate on your reasoning for you're lynch pool in your 285. Your 287 is not a good response at all because you really do have to explain your reads.


---

Here I was actually going to write up who was on my town list (mostly slight town reads) and why, but then I realized that I really didn't need to pay so much attention to town reads. So I'll just list off who I'm reading as town so far, not in any particular order:

Gheb
Sang
RR

If anyone wants some explanation on any of these reads, then ask and you shall receive.

Nulls:

inactives (ORI and CK, for obvious reasons) Vig targets, definitly. If either of these two players feel like they can't carry out this game now then they should replace out ASAP.

Joey: Was inactive due to v/la. Had a bit of wierd start, but it's nothing I would write home about. Is back now, and I will need to see more from him before I can make an accurate judgment. Although I do like his 290. That said, we need to talk about Auspher being newbie town vs. newbie scum.

@Joey: How do you feel about that one post pointed out by RR? The one where Auspher openly admits that he is going to be inactive.

Acro: Wanta believe he's town, but I can't. Too often he is concerned about questioning and helping out, but not enough about forming his own stances. Plus, again, that 280 was sloppy.

I want to believe he's town for that "test" he pulled, and because earlier it seemed like I could sense townie motivation with his (her?) posts. At last, it is not to be so.

Auspher: Already explained this one, and I don't feel like explaining it again. Moving on.

Wary of (note these could be either people who I'm ultimatly reading as null or maybe even slightly town, but I'm still just wary of. consider these people to be fos, if thet helps you to understand):

TM: Overall I'm getting slight town vibes from him due to his focusing on everyone, but I'm wary of that Joey push for reasons stated above. Plus as Gheb pointed out it's kind of an easy push so yeah.

J: Gonna just parrot Gheb again and say it's for the same reasons as his 293. Feels like he should be more of a force in this game. He has pretty much nulls on everyone which is kinda bleck, cus I feel J would of gotten reads on other people besides just me. Meta though, so I can't really run too far with this. Null.

Scummie:

Balatro: He's pretty inactive, but when he does post I'm not to fond of his self-concern (he only has focused on things that are related to him). Slightly scum.

Felipe: I have not sensed that this guy is thinking for himself, plain and simple. He's been lagging behind a bit and I'm not fond of that. Slightly more scum, my strongest pick for now.

Need to see that vote count before I vote.

So lynch order for now is looking like:

Felipe > Balatro > J/Auspher/inactive

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I thought more people were on Felipe for some reason.

vote: Felipe

yep

 

[Balatro]

Apologies for my not posting; I intended to make another will some real meat in it but ended up going out O: Real Steel <3!

To draw a night kill, of course. If I'm bulletproof, I can make the scum want to shoot me and waste their night kill.

...why tell us this O_O It's now a never ending cycle of wine in front of me, surely?

First off, you've yet to nail down a solid accusation as to me being scummy, so you're driving really hard at a moot point.

Well, you said you will / would intentionally play scummy to preserve your own life. I took this as a tacit admission you would.

Well, to begin with, not every town player is capable of playing the razor's edge. Next, I haven't "done" anything yet. Third, if every townie is able to successful play to not get lynched, then the only alternative left will be to lynch the scum and we will win hands down. You will NEVER hear me say that a townie should be okay with his own lynch regardless of the circumstances.

What's razors edge?

My point is; if all town divert their attention to protecting themselves then all mafioso need do is the same....and we will never kill them. Why make the assumption mafioso cannot also play as you intend?

Now, no one can accuse us of sitting here talking about things unrelated to the game, if you'll give me an analysis of Auspher's play to date, I will answer one question completely truthfully. Don't tell my partner I offered, he might get mad. ;|

I think this question is redundant now as you later mention your town read on him. I can answer if needed. But for now I'd prefer to look at the following; I have had no interaction with most players other than yourself, which is limiting.

Not necessarily, but it depends. Sometimes gut feelings are more right than logical ones.

I believe gut is the easiest excuse to push a case and deflect all responsibility. Opinion? Do you use gut often? Why?

Call me a coward if you want, but at least I have the guts to have thrown myself on the radar.

What I dislike here is his way of thinking - throwing himself on the radar implies he is to be scrutinized, should not his priority be to scrutinise others, and hunt the mafioso himself? I am aware perhaps he is playing as Ryker has said to - to avoid death, but I think this interferes with hunting.

Swords gained scum points for trying to end RvS like that. Which is why he has my attention. RvS is where I can figure out how people are going to play the game and see how people respond to one another, I do not want it to end unless too much time passes for everyone to post, which is has for CK.

Most guides agree RvS is largely useless - why do you hold Sworddancer. accountable for ending a method he may well find useless? Could you please show me some examples of where RvS has proven itself to benefit your reads - as I do not understand how it could.

Balatro, would you be willing to follow my lead this game? I guarantee I won't push you if you follow my votes. This immunity can and will be revoked if you are scum.

Why should I follow a man I do not trust?

I will take your opinions into consideration provided I can understand them. I do not think you should ask for more. Please provide examples of your past play where you have had people follow you to town's benefit.

- Would someone please explain why Felipe has been getting votes? Preferably someone currently on the voting.

Man, I don't get you at all this game. Gheb would probably be more valuable to cop than myself, but copping Sang, Acro, RR, or one of those non-entities would be a much better choice at this stage in the game.

Would you consider the following deal?

I will vote in unison with you, provided you submit to the cop.

Then, copping yourself would have more value. I would be happy to submit to it the next night if necessary.

Also, why are you voting jO_Oey?

I am willing to lynch RR, Joey or Auspher today. Any of them is a good lynch for me.

Why?

Auspher is scummy for being a sheep and not having an own opinion.

Sheep? As in following a shepherd?

Balatro: He's pretty inactive, but when he does post I'm not to fond of his self-concern (he only has focused on things that are related to him). Slightly scum.

Setting aside the astonishing irony that out of your entire post, I'm only responding to the part about me. I do not agree that posts the pertain to me equates to self-concern. I do not think my conversation with Ryker was useful in the conventional sense (though I think it has quite rapidly altered my thought process), but I am lost as to your conclusion - was I not arguing that each of us should be less focused on our self preservation?

 

[Balatro]

Where are the votes at?

Sworddancer. I haven't read through your entire post properly as I am going to bed, but will likely have extra to comment on tomorrow.

I also feel too much of a bystander, so if people have any questions to ask me?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Nice of you to post Balatro when your name came under suspicion ^.^ *not implying anything at all, teehee*

Anyways, Balatro, please do read my entire post. Admittingly there is some self-focus in it, but that's hardly all there is.

Also, please be more concrete with what you're saying. Reading your post, often you would say stuff like "I don't like this," "What I don't like about this . . . " ect. You're giving thoughts onto specific things but not really linking it back to the players, which is unhelpful.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Setting aside the astonishing irony that out of your entire post, I'm only responding to the part about me. I do not agree that posts the pertain to me equates to self-concern. I do not think my conversation with Ryker was useful in the conventional sense (though I think it has quite rapidly altered my thought process), but I am lost as to your conclusion - was I not arguing that each of us should be less focused on our self preservation?

Wait, apologizes to Balato. I thought you were accusing me of self concern with the first line.

Anyways, what I was getting at was the fact that you weren't really focused outwards (perhaps until now). Like, you didn't question why player A said thing B to player C, but were more focusing on what player A said to you.

It's still earlier, so this is up for change, but as of now I'm not impressed.

 

[Deleted member]

Balatro, you think Felipe is town?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I want to talk to Balatro, Xonar, so save him for me. I'm going to fall asleep at the moment and I'm unsure if I'm waking up before tomorrow morning.

 

[Ori_bro]

I am extremely sorry for not posting at all yesterday. I was at the MSU vs UofM football game and was out late having a grand ol' time. I will have a very good post soonish and I will have my vote soon. i have 5 pages of reading to get through.


sorry guys

 

[felipe_9595]

Wait, what SD??? I am being accused of not thinking by myself??? Sorry, but it hink you were thinking in Auspher XP

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

My vote on Felipe during RVS was to start off RVS and to apply pressure on Felipe to get some information. A large part of this was ineffective though due to him being aware of my intent as he highlighted in his #173:

Thats why you are leaning to me, because you tryed to get info from me, but not in a pushy, or ilogical way.

Waiting for such a response was painful, as I was being baited by J's #81 which literally was like J kicking me in the nuts by attacking RVS justification on a vote. Of course the justification would be out there and it wouldn't be a "solid case", it's RVS for Christ's sakes people:

It's logical yet at the same time, I think you are delving a bit too deeply into it.

Spoiler

One of the discrepancies that I wanted to clarify in my #172 with regards to Felipe was the reason why he marked me as "neutral leaning to town" and Auspher as "leaning sucmmy" in his #120 as his reasoning for his decision in #124 was lacking:

Want reasoning? 1- You jumped on the wagon 3 minutes after, with the excuse of the "Elaborate Reasoning" of Acrostic 2- later, when SW asked you, you said tehre was nothing to go on, so it was worth. How is worth to town to lynch someone, without even reading him, in the beginning of the day????

With regards to Felipe's first point, I find that Auspher's second vote on Felipe to more likely be the fault of a lack of experience with regards to RVS etiquette. Sworddancer's initial accusation in #51 of sheeping with scum intent is not likely. New scum rarely try to gambit so soon and the only possible motivation to openly sheep early in the game is to coast. Although we have seen indication of this from Auspher's later play, he is literally stating, "Hey guys, I'm going to go under the radar now. See you later" defeats the purpose of lurking or coasting which is more of a habit that new players take on at the beginning of the game rather than later on in the game. What I've seen from the slot thus far is a large dose of honesty and openness, which is a strong indication of newtown. The only mixed bag of course which I noted is that he is static with regards to his Felipe read and him mentioning that he will stay in the background. If this slot remains active and also contributes to a diversity of reads, then this will be an important slot to reference in the future, regardless of alignment. Therefore I am opposed to lynching Auspher for today (I could go on further, but I don't want this post to bear too much focus on a single slot).

With regards to Felipe's second point, I found a contradiction in which Felipe states that Auspher has little information to go on with regards to pushing the lynch. I immediately wanted to discern what the difference was between my early vote on Felipe and Auspher's given that the initial vote was placed on very little information yet Felipe marked me as "neutral leaning to town" and Auspher as "leaning scummy." As stated in the beginning, Felipe in Felipe-style thinks that I approached my vote without having a real intent to lynch him and used my vote to gain information. However, this implies that he does think that Auspher was leading a lynch on him with the intent to get killed. Felipe I hope if you do read this that you can address how you interpret Auspher's slot to be scum as you are perceptive and possible of reasoning. You don't have to agree with my read on the slot, but I think you are able to give better justification than what you have listed. Something that makes me feel incredibly uneasy though is the following:

You read was logical, but at the same time it was way to deep. Thats why you are leaning to me, because you tryed to get info from me, but not in a pushy, or ilogical way.

You read was logical, but at the same time it was way to deep. Thats why you are leaning to me, because you tryed to get info from me, but not in a pushy, or ilogical way.

Hmm. There is definitely a contradiction here as Felipe's point #1 definitely brings up sheeping with regards to forming thought and or opinions. And what Felipe is doing in this read... seems a lot like sheeping to me with regards to providing a refutation for my point. Now maybe I'm looking a little too into this, but I find it somewhat interesting that we have a level of awareness in Felipe that I'm voting him mostly to put pressure on him. Which strikes me as him having some level of perception. But then we have his read on Auspher, which is lacking. So there is a discrepancy. But providing justification from another person to address my intent strikes me as a bit interesting especially since J from what I last read has been particular to avoid Felipe throughout this game. I would look out for a possible relationship between these two if either of them flip scum. What I do see from J though is a lot of Sangfroid/J:

Spoiler

More along the way~

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

EBWOP: This is hilarious. Misplaced quote in the post above wrt J/Felipe:

It's logical yet at the same time, I think you are delving a bit too deeply into it.

You read was logical, but at the same time it was way to deep. Thats why you are leaning to me, because you tryed to get info from me, but not in a pushy, or ilogical way.

They seemed a little TOO ALIKE there.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Doing homework right now, and I haven't actually reed your post yet Acro, but I saw that one point about J and Sang being gay and/or bros. So that you're not ignorant about this, I will inform you now that Sang's a chick and J is a (probably gay) guy.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

What I do see from J though is a lot of Sangfroid/J

Busy at the moment. Will get on later to read the rest of this but I want you to explain this point first.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Speaking of which, while you're here (or at least were), mind answering this:

...What? I meant, why are you voting JO_OEY, why do you think me and RR are scum, and why do you like J and Auspher?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Sang

After reading up, J is a null read for me. I'm going to make up my mind on his play later when I get to see him push stuff harder - that's what I usually base my reads on him on but it hasn't happened yet.

I'd have to agree to that. He's an enigma, currently.

I believe gut is the easiest excuse to push a case and deflect all responsibility. Opinion? Do you use gut often? Why?

I use my gut to push people until I get solid answers out of them, so I use it fairly often. It's not deflecting responsibilty because you are still actively pushing that person and saying you dislike them.

Wait, what SD??? I am being accused of not thinking by myself??? Sorry, but it hink you were thinking in Auspher XP

Nah, I think it's kind of both. Why don't you do something currently to back that up? Then people might believe you.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't see it as that, but if it was true, it wouldn't shock me too much. I didn't bring pairs into consideration, and I would prefer to do that after a flip.

If you do not think they're scum together why did you mention them together as your scum reads?

Vote Acrostic

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Who here stands out to you for this reasoning (besides the obvious ones like CK and Ori). Is there anyone that you would be willing to lynch off of my reasoning? As of now, I haven't really seen you gun after anyone for this reasoning.

I haven't done that because I didn't need to. I have found a solid scum read in Acrostic in a different way and I'm fine with that.

The one's that were "sidelining" that discussion were the one's that are either still largely inactive or just didn't get to post at that time so there isn't a whole lot to hold against people. [However, just because that's the case now doesn't mean it can't change at a later point]

Gheb, you do realize that it's entirely possible that you could just as easily be setting me up here (not accusing you of this btw, but hear me out). How do I not know that, no matter what I said, you were just going to mold your reasoning around that? I mean, you did basically ask me to incriminate myself, so how can we know that you're actually being fair about this?

Considering that I lay out my entire thought process on the issue and generally respond to every counter-point of yours it would be really obvious when I started to argue in an unfair manner. Looking at our back and forth so far is there anything you think that is actually unfair? Did I blow anything out of proportion? The only thing where you *could* find yourself treated unfairly is the "proof" part that you questioned yourself but even then I couldn't see how that's the case. After all, I'm not even using it as an argument but merely as proof to myself that the idea wasn't too far-fetched. Hardly something you should be concerned about me treating you unfairly.

I'm not setting you up for anything other than what I have stated before [possible lynch option if no main suspect is found, which already happened anyway]. The whole argument doesn't even allow it. Like I said, it's just me making sure I didn't catch some crazy idea nobody could ever think of.

What if I answered something along the lines of "iunno" to your question? Would I be off the hook?

To what question? Whether you were serious about replacing out or not?

You're whole accusation of me is entirely WIFOM and so is the evidence that you're using to back it up ("Was Sworddancer just joking or not?" "Did Sworddancer know the reasoning cus he's scum, or does he really just know himself anough to make a correct guess?").

On the contrary - it was your "request" for replacement that produced the WIFOM situation, not my accusation. It would still have been WIFOM had I not brought up the subject at all. The whole WIFOM comes from you considering replacement ...

"Why would he contemplate replacement in his initial post after roles were sent out? Did he get something he dislikes? Scum?"
"Would he really make it that obvious by replacing out right away though? Maybe he's just town after all."
"Or he is scum trying to make us believe exactly that!"

... that, my friend, is WIFOM par excellance. My approach to WIFOM is not to just leave it alone [which is preferable for less experienced players] but try to figure out the risk / reward ratio that is the basis upon which every WIFOM situation is built.

At least you seem to be admitting that this can't really go anywhere in your previous post.

Not more than to make you a possibly fall-back lynch as I have mentioned before.

 

[#HBC | J]

I had a more thorough post written out but it got eaten by a 502. Since I wanna read up on the latest posts and I'm not going to stay up that much longer I'm getting stuff I've been asked out of the way first to save time and nerves.

@Sang

Out of these 4 people the only reads I really feel worth sharing right now is that J has been suspiciously off my radar. He usually stands out more to me and we interact a lot more in general in like every game ever. This might have changed in between you asking and me answering but I'd have to read up on that first.
Second read: Acrostic is the one player out of these 4 I like the least. At first I thought his arguments in regards to Joey were rather confusing and made little sense to me ... I find it actually suspicious how he mentioned Joey awkwardly in his posts just to sheep Ryker after he asked me to join the Joey wagon. I felt like he's been waiting for that opportunity because frankly, Joey isn't that hard a lynch to get through on Day 1.

Unvote

Unless I find something more suspect in my read-up I'm going to vote Acrostic. I have reads on the other players too but there's no benefit for town in sharing them.

@Ryker / Xonar

Did you actually talk the Joey suspicion out with each other? The only explanation why you'd actually consider him scummy in my eyes is his lack of participation, which is worthless anyway because he announced to always be V/LA on weekends. I wouldn't believe you in the slightest if you told me that he's your #1 scumpick so far, especially for the small amount of reasoning you provided. You seem to be more talk than action this time around - for how much discussion you take part in and are vocal in the results aren't impressive at all.

I really like this post for the paragraph directed at TM because that was what I was thinking and have still yet to receive an answer. Though it was Sunday so I'm being patient. I also like your Acro suspicion and I am starting to realize I like him a bit less the more I read his posts, Swords said something I agree to which I wanna get to as well.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I'm at work and won't get break in a couple of hours. I have released 0 reads regarding Joey and have not explained my vote on him. The only reads I have gone over are Auspher and Felipe. I was going to do Sworddancer last night, but I got distracted by AM mafia. I don't know what Gheb is doing, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's scum.

 

[#HBC | J]

Swords, I see okay, I couldn't find where I stated that I had you as leaning-scummy but yes I did at that post. I just didn't think I said it so directly.

J my interaction with Fynal in KvD was purely a gambit to get the game moving. Here it was honest slight suspicion which transformed into more major suspicion right after Auspher's 50.

How do I know that this is real besides beleiving that what you tell me is real? =P I'm going off what I see and what I've had experience with. With how he it could be n00btown? The way he acted in responding to you seemed more like town that could possibly see someone attacking him for a reason he thought was actually valid with the way things were going. He was standing strong to a reasoning he found was sound and seeing that someone else didn't see that as sound made him antsy. Plus this is his first game and all though I really suck at reading n00bies soooooo I'm trying to work on that.

With regards to wanting Sang lynched? That's the beauty of it, you'll never know.

What's so bad about my early push on Auspher?

Also nah J Sang has definitely given out stances.

She's given out stances, but no real scum-reads. Just like myself which was a problem TM had with me was that I didn't have a solid scum-read yet, only feels. Didn't I already explain why I didn't like your Auspher push to where it seemed like a bit opportunistic to jump on a n00bie who you thought was over-reacting to something and pulling a n00b-card (i.e. My reference to KvD mafia)?

Acro: Wanta believe he's town, but I can't. Too often he is concerned about questioning and helping out, but not enough about forming his own stances. Plus, again, that 280 was sloppy.

I brought this up with Gheb but I like that you are getting that with Acro cuz I feel the same as well. He seems to be intent on questioning people but I haven't seen even an inkling of his reads nor where his train of thought is behind what he is saying. I get that his 280 was sloppy which actually makes me wanna think he is town, explain later.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Acrostic is the one player out of these 4 I like the least. At first I thought his arguments in regards to Joey were rather confusing and made little sense to me ... I find it actually suspicious how he mentioned Joey awkwardly in his posts just to sheep Ryker after he asked me to join the Joey wagon. I felt like he's been waiting for that opportunity because frankly, Joey isn't that hard a lynch to get through on Day 1.

I am disappointed in JO_OEY for getting too interested with regards to Swords/Auspher. In the last game I was in with JO_OEY, he made a great initial impression in how he was able to spread reads around with each player in relation to their post. I felt good about his slot being town at an early point in the game. As for the second slot, I don't want to disclose it at this time as I believe they are being hindered by RVS and will step up their game at a later point.

I have had experience with games where players who have played below my expectations have turned out scum since there was such a discrepancy between what I observed between their town play and their scum play. They were good at expressing curiosity in finding scum, but not nearly as good as attempting to emulate it. I will be keeping tabs on these players as we transition into later today and even mid-game to see how they pan out.

Ok. I found what the "awkward" post that you are referencing. This was my response to tHe-Man. It didn't weigh into my vote on JO_OEY though as the reason I voted JO_OEY was to get attention, apply pressure, and spark discussion since the thread was dead when I last posted. #280 and #283 were bait posts to spark discussion. Earlier this morning I decided that JO_OEY was being scummy from what I glanced from his transition from Swords to Auspher which struck me as him attempting to push the mislynch on someone else. I haven't looked at the actual interaction in depth though, but based on that I'm fine where my vote is sitting at the moment.