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Heavy Brawl as the competitive standard? EDIT: Could a pro post his/her opinion?

Hikarakuen

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1.
It might be made up for with increased attack power. He would have a much easier time killing opponents, since they would fall fast enough for him to make combos.
See, now this is where that "You must recover!" part comes in... offense in a game kind of sucks without defense.

2.
You ruined the integrity of your post with that very statement. I don't see Brawl ever switching to high gravity mode, I don't think it needs to do so. But this game is far from immaculate, new or old there are very many subjective things that create a horrible imbalance.

Fighting games will never be perfect, they will always have subjective balance and have character segregation. Camping in any other video game that spawns competition and will always be evident, but it creates a weird divide for SSBB, and it makes characters who are better at spamming rather then combat climb up the tier ranks, when it should be the opposite.
The reason fighting games never seem perfect are because people nitpick a lot more with them.

3.
...In a couple months/years everyone will finally adapt to Brawl. People will find ways around camping, and everyone will stop trying to make Brawl Melee 2.0. Everyone will develop their own techniques/approaches with their character. Basically, Brawl stays the same, and Melee stays the same. Each game is different, have their ways of playing...
All I could think of when I read this is what happens when the next game comes out and people want that Brawl 2.0 *shudders*



But yeah, it all comes down to play how you enjoy it, and I for one enjoy just playing normal Brawls. But I want to ask... if you really loved the game so much, why should you want to change how it's played?
 

twiblets

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i for 1 think its a great idea. From what ive seen so far, balance is pushed in favour of offense rather than defense, there is more punishment, and the game is sped up generally. these are all good things. sure a lot more testing is needed to confirm there are no disasters for any particular character, but for now it looks good. They're not 'screwing with the game' they're just playing a different mode that sakurai included; ie he wanted us to play. you know he's not totally evil.

One thing i wud like to know. how are the earthbounders affected? chaingrabbing still a huge issue?
 

Team Giza

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One thing i wud like to know. how are the earthbounders affected? chaingrabbing still a huge issue?
Sadly it does not seem to fix the infinite from happening. However, the earthbound characters do get a lot better overall. Ness becomes very speedy with shorthop aerials. I don't like Ness in normal brawl, but I love him in heavy. Lucas gets some nice aerial tactics as well but I dont really play him much. There recoveries aren't really affected much by the heavier gravity.
 

Crizthakidd

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usb gekcho = 0 tripping %, hit stun frames = more than brawls zero lol, and airdoge limit set to one
 

0RLY

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Heavy Brawl is nice, I just don't like how gimping is so easy. Marth can effectively edgeguard somebody with just one aerial followed by B-up. Ganon can't thunderstorm anymore. Wall infinites are even harder to escape. Being caught under lips of stages is even easier than before. I like heavy brawl, but switching between two modes is too... difficult for me.
 

Amide

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It's a great idea. At first I was like, "Is this Melee?" But seriously, I don't know how people would adapt to this.
 

Froilen

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173
plus, meteores in heavy, are inexcapables!! wow, you cant come back from one of those in heavy brawl
 

Sean²

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Few things I'd like to ask...is stage scarring still possible in heavy mode? And is ROB's up-B affected in any way, like, is he still able to recover from just about any meteor?

I'd try it myself but I don't have the game.
 

Team Giza

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ROB's recovery is the same. However meteors will send him farther down so he can die from that at earlier %s but I dont think thats much of a problem.
 

peeup

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Heavy Brawl is the best idea that these forums have come up with since I've been visiting them, but it shouldn't be implemented yet. We have to give brawl more time for ATs to be discovered and ways around campers. Camping is the new brawl, and I don't think many people like it--but give the game more time.
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
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Even with heavy brawl on, its going to be very hard for brawl to progress, its still going backwards, even in heavy mode.
 

studly

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im no expert or pro but from what ive seen playing and from what ive heard about the whole brawl is backwards thing and the ridiculous camping ... heavy brawl may be our only hope for boosting the game in some way or form to help combat its faults and to lengthen its life-span...custom brawl is all weve got ....the only other thing we need to do before it becomes the standard is to give the european guys a few months to play
 

MuBa

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Ya know. I've actually tried playing the game as Heavy Brawl and I must admit. It was very nice. Sure some recoveries were worse (Noticeably Link and Sonic)...but I loved the fact that the game didn't feel as floaty neither the characters were that "Heavy."

The reason why I support Heavy Brawl as the tournament standard is because I've noticed people complaining about singles taking way too long, and the reason why it takes so much is because all of the characters are so **** floaty that hitting each other just becomes a chore. At least in Heavy Brawl people tend to play with more speed and may end matches quicker (also the game may even look SOMEWHAT more interesting than what's going on in today's Brawl tournaments).

For some reason I would hope more people give this stuff some thought even though data frames and all that jazz has been established for Normal Brawl.

I REALLY do hope people would actually try to have friendlies with Heavy Brawl to see what it's like and not look at the characters recovery but rather the way their approaches and speed of the match works.
 

Corigames

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Why would you do this? What's the point in bringing up this super-dead topic to say stuff that's been discussed in it? All this is going to do is re-interest n00bs and they'll want to make it the standard. Then we are going to break it to them that this only hinders certain characters and super buffs others. It makes CG's easier and such. It's not great. Leave it alone. Let the thread die.

Please.
 

Lore

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Sure, it is pretty good, but of course, I can't see this becoming the professional standard due to the facts Coreygames posted.

If anything, I can see this becoming a 'side' version of brawl, with its own seperate tourneys and such. To me though, even that seems pretty unlikely.
 

Onomanic

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Great, if heavy brawl becomes tournament standard, Link's recovery will be even worse than it was before. :( But it really sounds like Melee. I wonder if you can do Link's Utilt combo into a Uair now.... I'll go try. :)
 

Al_Di_Medola

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whouldnt heavy brawl make camping even worse???

Snake would pwn the game, and people who rely on aireal approach would have even less of a chance.
 

Lemon Drop

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play the game how it was made i reckon special brawl tournies wud fail
Ya dammit! The game was intended to be played with items, so use them! :laugh:

The idea of this topic is a great one. It would be nice if people didn't just bash it because its "not the normal mode" At least get a test tournament or something. From what I'm reading and seen, it shortens the length of matches (not all) quite a bit. The only reason people seem to be dissing this is because they have become accustomed with what is the standard now and fear change :chuckle:

Don't take this post seriously, heavy brawl is an entertaining thought.
 

Lord Viper

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whouldnt heavy brawl make camping even worse???

Snake would pwn the game, and people who rely on aireal approach would have even less of a chance.
I was thinking the same thing, and your right. It's harder to escape camping if you fall to fast, and your more varnrable to combo's as well. T_T
 

Al_Di_Medola

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I messed around today with this, and actually think its an awesome idea, the ONLY downside i found was Ganon can no longer autocancel Dair..,
I also messed with other settings and found then Heavy Brawl with a .8 Damage Ratio was pretty much the perfect game..,
the ONLY problem with this is now about 20 people have chaingrabs, so grabs would have to be limited.
and Capt Falcon is awesome with these settings!
I recomend that people try this out, and some of the TOs start hosting experimental tourneys for this stuff.
I think Brawl would be a much better gane for competition with these two settings.
 

MarKO X

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Sonic plays pretty well on high gravity. It's just that his spring jump is severely nerfed. The best way to edgeguard him in in hi-grav is to go to the other side of the stage so that he can't use the homing attack.

All in all, hi-grav isn't all that great. Camping will still win it, because the defense has nothing to do with the gravity, and approaches are still unincredible to do anything consistently about it except play with the same mindgames that approachers have been approaching with.
 

Al_Di_Medola

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NO. Please stop this nonsense. Please. Pretty pretty please.
i understand peoples hesatancy to even try new ****, but at least im trying to help.
i think the game was MUCH better like that, and many more characters became usable.
i bet if people practiced this way Capt. Falcon would become a viable character...
AND WE ALL KNOW HOW GOOD THAT'D BE (xD)

anyway. im serious. Heavy brawl w/ .8 dmg ratio pwns standard settings.
 

metaXzero

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Under the ground.
This thread again?

Anyway, this will never be the standard. However, it'd be nice if some1 actually tried to test this in an alternate tournament fashion.
 

Player-1

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Well I have had my own opinion on the Melee Vs Brawl debate for a while, and I've kept it to myself. People saying "Brawlz iz 4 n4rbs 1t t4kes n0 sk177" or something a long those lines I can't stand. I do believe Melee took more skill to be good at, but not as much as some people portray it, brawl just takes a different kind of skill. I play a completely offensive game, I'll shield, roll, and side step of course instead of just being hit, but my main game revolves around offense, and I'm considered to be in the handful of best diddys out there (not trying to brag, honestly). So I completely agree that camping can be beat, and quite easily if people can figure their opponent out.

Thats my opinion towards Melee Vs Brawl and camping, now on to the REAL topic here.



I haven't been keeping up with heavy type of gameplay for a while so excuse me for my ignorance, the last time i heard about heavy brawl was when people were just realizing how it felt like melee.



From what I have read, the whole point in this would be a more exciting game and less boring and slow, correct?

Imagine Brawl to be a game of Chess, and heavy brawl/Melee like a game of football. What would you rather watch? I'd choose football, a game that is almost constantly moving, people getting tackled, hurt, and amazing plays which people in today's society find exiting. The game of chess would be a slow game of wits. You have to be thinking ahead and what your opponent might do next and counter it.

So why do people play chess instead of football sometimes?

1. They're better at the game, and like glory and the feel of being higher ranked than others. Winning is something every human might not want, but it's what every human prefers it's part of being a human, and therefor will get a better feeling of this through something they're good at.
2. They think a slow game of wits, and strategy is fun over and action packed sport.

I'm not saying heavy brawl/melee, by any means, does not take strategy or wits to win. In football they have plays they run, etc that requires this. I'm saying it takes a different kind of thinking to it than heavy brawl/melee and in some cases brawl does take more thinking power behind it. Melee was all about fast fingers and just hitting your opponent with combo after combo, like football is all about muscle and speed with plays behind it. Brawl is all about a strong defense, with some offensive maneuvers thrown in and takes more strategy (in most cases not necessarily all cases), like Chess it requires more thought and strategy.

Basically what I'm saying is that too a lot of people, a slow campy game will always be more exciting than a faster combo wise game, and taking brawl from what it is suppose to be away from these people doesn't sound fair to change it into what it's not suppose to be for others.

In all honesty, I think we should split brawl up between heavy brawl and normal brawl, and have a 4th section here in the SWF (SSB64, SSBM, SSBB, SSBB Heavy) IF POSSIBLE, but obviously this would take a lot of work and will most likely end in an epic disaster.

Sorry if I'm being an idiot here and didn't read something through
 

MarKO X

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u want faster and more exciting?

play fast brawl. lol. ok, but just for the lulz. do it with sonic and have this guy crack open a smash ball...lulz for u, not so much for others who mighta been playing "seriously". but yeah, sonic on fast brawl is amazing.

backk on topic, the only issue is that heavy brawl supergimps recovery in a beyond worse than Melee kinda way, and that's the sole reason I'm not for it. now if there was a way to make hi gravity over the stafe and low gravity offstage, well, that's just asking or 2 much.
 

Corigames

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Heavy Brawl will just be the same as normal Brawl. there will be good characters, there will be bad characters, there will be meh characters. Some levels will be impossible to play, some won't. It's just the same stuff in a different way. It accomplishes nothing new and doesn't expand anything on the game except allowing certain people with bad characters to stand a chance and people with good characters having to cope with having a bad one now.

NO. THREAD CLOSE. THIS IS DUMB.
 

Player-1

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Heavy Brawl will just be the same as normal Brawl. there will be good characters, there will be bad characters, there will be meh characters. Some levels will be impossible to play, some won't. It's just the same stuff in a different way. It accomplishes nothing new and doesn't expand anything on the game except allowing certain people with bad characters to stand a chance and people with good characters having to cope with having a bad one now.

NO. THREAD CLOSE. THIS IS DUMB.
Thats not what this thread is saying, it's saying that they want heavy brawl to make the game more exciting, it has nothing to do with balancing characters.
 
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