Q&A Have a Question? We'll give you a "Hint" - Ness Question/Answer Thread (CHECK HERE)

[jset818]

Why do people say Ness's Uair is safe on shield? Looking at the frames and the short range it has, I would assume they can easily shield grab or punish with a quick smash.

 

[Earthbound360]

Why do people say Ness's Uair is safe on shield? Looking at the frames and the short range it has, I would assume they can easily shield grab or punish with a quick smash.

I don't know why this is either. It most certainly is NOT safe on shield, no matter where you hit with it. Bair is the safest one, and even that one I have doubts about at times.

 

[jset818]

@ Earthbound360 I don't have a Wii U so I can't test this. Does SH nair beat spot dodges because the second nair in the SH will always hit them before they can punish? Also to Magnet cancel Luigi's fireball, do I jump the moment the fireball hits my field or when the swirling thing appears around my body?

 

[Uffe]

Why do people say Ness's Uair is safe on shield? Looking at the frames and the short range it has, I would assume they can easily shield grab or punish with a quick smash.

A well spaced uair against a shield will not have you get grabbed. I've managed to do this plenty of times. There are better options against shields such as fair, nair, or bair. Uair pretty much starts from the back to the front of Ness, making an upside down U shape. The tip of his head can poke shields. Doing it too close will get you grabbed. People don't typically go for a quick smash attack when an attack is coming at them because they assume that after you do your attack, you're going to block.

 

[Earthbound360]

@ Earthbound360 I don't have a Wii U so I can't test this. Does SH nair beat spot dodges because the second nair in the SH will always hit them before they can punish? Also to Magnet cancel Luigi's fireball, do I jump the moment the fireball hits my field or when the swirling thing appears around my body?

It can work, but it's possible to shield between the 2 nairs out of a spot dodge. Nair is also pretty laggy on landing, so it's a bit risky.

Magnet cancel RIGHT when the projectile hits you, as in comes into contact with the magnet the first time.

 

[jset818]

It can work, but it's possible to shield between the 2 nairs out of a spot dodge. Nair is also pretty laggy on landing, so it's a bit risky.

So from your earlier post, you said to beat spot dodges I should use Nair. How does Nair beat spot dodges if they can easily spot dodge and shield? Thus, resulting in me getting grabbed.

 

[Earthbound360]

So from your earlier post, you said to beat spot dodges I should use Nair. How does Nair beat spot dodges if they can easily spot dodge and shield? Thus, resulting in me getting grabbed.

The thing is, when you run up to someone and they're anticipating a grab, a SH nair has a different timing on its hitbox (as well as a longer duration) that will more likely catch them than a grab. This is just with 1 SH nair. I'm just saying that the SH double nair commitment might be a bit more risky. After just 1 nair, you can DJ away, or fall away with the rest of the SH.

 

[Luco]

The good thing about magnet cancelling is you can spam a direction input whilst you're in it and you'll guaranteed get the magnet cancel should an energy projectile hit you. If you're struggling on the timing at all, then just do that until you get the timing down pat.

Although you can't cancel magnet with a forward roll, so it always has to be a backward roll, spotdodge or jump (I think magnet cancel SH Nair/Fair might be really nice against Luigi players that try to use fireball to cover their approaches)

 

[Earthbound360]

The good thing about magnet cancelling is you can spam a direction input whilst you're in it and you'll guaranteed get the magnet cancel should an energy projectile hit you. If you're struggling on the timing at all, then just do that until you get the timing down pat.

Although you can't cancel magnet with a forward roll, so it always has to be a backward roll, spotdodge or jump (I think magnet cancel SH Nair/Fair might be really nice against Luigi players that try to use fireball to cover their approaches)

Since you can't roll forwards, I just SH forwards and air dodge as a substitute.

 

[jset818]

I had the chance to play against the Luigi player today. We played for 6 hours and I think he won 80% of the time. I never felt so hopeless in a matchup before. Everything I did seemed so easily countered by him. My Fair and Nair is not safe on shield, even if I drift away, he would perfect shield and dash up then grab. I can't magnet react his mid range fireballs, he would keep a distance where if I roll, I would end up in front of him. These mid range fireballs let him set up grabs 24/7. My magnet doesn't come out fast enough. Any of my dash attack/grab he would always spot dodge then punish with jabs or roll back into fireball then grab attempt. I can't empty jump grab because every time I SH towards him he would Upsmash. I Tried to empty jump fake out his upsmash (13 frames), but I can't punish because of landing lag and dash grab takes too long. Please advise.

 

[PKBeam]

My Fair and Nair is not safe on shield, even if I drift away, he would perfect shield and dash up then grab.

nothing's really safe on a powershield, besides Fair, since you can't really PS it. as to what else you can try, FF Nair to hit the ground quickly or SH double Nair to fake him out.

I can't magnet react his mid range fireballs, he would keep a distance where if I roll, I would end up in front of him. These mid range fireballs let him set up grabs 24/7. My magnet doesn't come out fast enough.

don't roll towards him then. spotdodge, jump or magnet cancel Usmash.
generally only magnet what you can make. don't try to magnet a close up fireball, just PS it.
also fireballs don't have enough hitstun to combo into a grab.

Any of my dash attack/grab he would always spot dodge then punish with jabs or roll back into fireball then grab attempt. I can't empty jump grab because every time I SH towards him he would Upsmash. I Tried to empty jump fake out his upsmash (13 frames), but I can't punish because of landing lag and dash grab takes too long. Please advise.

if he's spotdodging it then bait a spotdodge. if he rolls back that's also punishable too.
when you do a tomahawk, try to SH while staying out of Usmash range. this way you can FF Nair or simply land and grab a whiffed Usmash.

 

[jset818]

nothing's really safe on a powershield, besides Fair, since you can't really PS it. as to what else you can try, FF Nair to hit the ground quickly or SH double Nair to fake him out.

If I FF nair his shield, won't I just get shield grabbed? Fair doesn't even need to be PS, he can wait it out and dash up and grab because of the long landing lag.

don't roll towards him then. spotdodge, jump or magnet cancel Usmash.
generally only magnet what you can make. don't try to magnet a close up fireball, just PS it.
also fireballs don't have enough hitstun to combo into a grab.

I don't mean I'm rolling into him. I was trying to give you guys an idea of the range he keeps me at. The range where I can't magnet react. Fireballs are positive on shield for him. If I block, he can get a grab. I try to challenge it after blocking or dodging the FB with jabs since that's the only move that comes out fast enough. It worked at first but afterwards he would just dash upsmash behind a fireball. Throwing out jabs became risky. These are the difficulties I'm having: I can't get past the fireballs, on offense or defense I have no safe approaches against him. I can't punish anything he does. upsmash(window is small, blocking pushes me away unless I PS). Downsmash - the start up and end frame is ridiculous. His fireball dash up grab/upsmash/jab - such low risk, high reward approach for him. Everything he does seems super safe and high reward. Everything I do seems risky and if I make 1 bad read = grab. 3 grabs and I'm dead. My biggest punish against him is a grab downthrow up air. Can't chain fair because he always di towards me.

if he's spotdodging it then bait a spotdodge. if he rolls back that's also punishable too.
when you do a tomahawk, try to SH while staying out of Usmash range. this way you can FF Nair or simply land and grab a whiffed Usmash.

I think that would work but I have to jump over the fireballs too. If I get hit by the fireball in the SH then it's a free grab for him. Luigi is just super frustrating to play against.

Im actually going to a tournament later today. Most likely have to play him again. I think I might just play my villager.

 

[Lochy]

What are the best moves for Ness to use in the neutral game?
Also what are his best moves to use defensively?

 

[Earthbound360]

It really just sounds like this guy is doing a better job of reading you than you are of him honestly.

If I FF nair his shield, won't I just get shield grabbed? Fair doesn't even need to be PS, he can wait it out and dash up and grab because of the long landing lag.

Don't go recklessly attacking shields with nair OR fair. Neither of these are safe, and you'll learn this quickly with some other characters too. I'm actually convinced that fair is the worst aerial on shield (other than dair of course). I would refrain from using fair at all in this matchup outside of full hops actually. Nair ONLY if you plan to trade with Luigi, or have a read on his spot dodge. So in this case, you'd have to determine the moments he spot dodges (and I know he is, because you're saying he's spot dodging your grabs), or nair only when you see Luigi jump as well. Remember, you're not nairing to pressure his shield, you're nairing to beat things he does.

Bair is the only aerial I'd recommend on shield here. You have to make predictions as to whether or not this guy is going to spot dodge or shield. This is where I believe he's reading you.

I don't mean I'm rolling into him. I was trying to give you guys an idea of the range he keeps me at. The range where I can't magnet react. Fireballs are positive on shield for him. If I block, he can get a grab. I try to challenge it after blocking or dodging the FB with jabs since that's the only move that comes out fast enough. It worked at first but afterwards he would just dash upsmash behind a fireball. Throwing out jabs became risky.

You have to get a feel for magnet's timing. Fireballs travel slowly, so it's very possible to magnet them, but you have to have it in mind already. Be prepared to magnet at any time. Then immediately magnet cancel it when Luigi moves in. Once you've really got the hang of this, it'll heavily discourage Luigi players from using fireballs since not only will they lose their positive frames, but they'll also be greatly diminishing the damage they deal to you even if they get you eventually.
You can also nair the fireballs if Luigi is running inside of them, but this is risky if he plans to shield.
And of course, if you can't get either of these things out in time and you know it, just run away. Don't risk trying it if you know it wont come out in time.

These are the difficulties I'm having: I can't get past the fireballs, on offense or defense I have no safe approaches against him. I can't punish anything he does. upsmash(window is small, blocking pushes me away unless I PS). Downsmash - the start up and end frame is ridiculous. His fireball dash up grab/upsmash/jab - such low risk, high reward approach for him. Everything he does seems super safe and high reward. Everything I do seems risky and if I make 1 bad read = grab. 3 grabs and I'm dead. My biggest punish against him is a grab downthrow up air. Can't chain fair because he always di towards me.
I think that would work but I have to jump over the fireballs too. If I get hit by the fireball in the SH then it's a free grab for him. Luigi is just super frustrating to play against.

Im actually going to a tournament later today. Most likely have to play him again. I think I might just play my villager.

In situations in which moves have small end lag, you need to focus on punishing them during the move, not after. Pivot PKFs will work here if you can tell he's going to throw out these moves. Space yourself properly, then let him have it.

Usmash you might have to make a read on once blocking. Don't go straight for the damage, go for the mixup or predict his movement. What does this guy usually do after missing a usmash? Block? Spot dodge? Jab? Ness has answers to all of those, you've just gotta pick the right one. Same goes for dsmash, but you should be able to SH over that one and nair/uair him.

You could also go for what I believe to be one of Ness' more efficient punishes (a bit riskier though) which is SH air dodge into uair. Air dodge right into him, then uair before you land in the same SH. But be warned, USE IN MODERATION. If he starts reading that you air dodge as soon as you jump, he can charge the smash and hit you after. Once again, we're back to the game of who is reading who better. Does this guy let the smash loose as soon as your in range? If so, try this out. Is he waiting? Then nail him on the startup with something less delayed.

 

[jset818]

@ Earthbound360 I think you're right. One of my biggest problems playing Ness is that I'm always short hopping and throwing out Fairs and Nairs because I always felt that it's safe on block/dodge if I drift away. It's something that I see pros do and I just copy them without knowing why they do it.

I just feel like I don't have a safe approach against a Luigi unless I make a read while he can approach safely every time.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Hey guys. So I have been playing around with Ness for a while and enjoy the character but mainly put my focus in Meta Knight. I have come to accept that there are just some MUs I am better off using a secondary for. In addition, I would like to be competitive for a customs format and MK is just not very good with customs.

The MUs I am struggling with are and mainly. I also fight a buttload of and (easier but still really stressful). Based off what I've posted here do you think it's worth it to develop my Ness further? I know the character to a playable level so I am not starting from scratch here.

 

[rosetta_stoned]

If you like ness than yes, i would say its definitely worth it to develop further. The characters you listed do require ness to adapt to the mu a bit and perhaps play a little different but nothing he cant overcome. Personally i have the hardest time against shiek and sonic but If i have my gameface on i typically dont drop ness for a secondary against anyone.

Maybe i havnt played a really good zss but i feel if you realize they want to set up alot of their combos and even kill setups with the paralizer gun and just find away around that it becomes pretty simple. Take note her habbits with her down special. Because of her speed and maneuverability you will have to be a little more patient but i think ness wins this mu

This ones hard to nutshell for me. Ness is pretty floaty so this actually works to our advantage somewhat. Luigi will eat fastfallers for breakfast. If your having trouble with luigi you probably just need to get better at manuevering his fireballs. Do you know about magnet cancell? Alot of times it isnt prob safe to throw up the magnet in the first place but its good to have in your back pocket. Any laggy moves try to avoid as his quick smashes will easily get you punished

Pk fire is not safe. Will usually just get you punished and even if you hit he seems to get out of it easy or can just throw out jabs. I almost never use it here. I find spot dodge is your best friend here. Spot dodge all his approaches - don't roll- (dash grab, dash attack, falcon kick ect) and punish him for it. Doesnt leave him with much after that. Ness pretty much wins in the air too. Once you get used to the mu youll prob start feeling more sorry for the cpt.

Lots of people claim to have alot of trouble here but ive never found it toooo bad. Im usually more aggressive but i tend to go a little more on the defensive side here and watch my spacing. Dont have too much to say here.

 

[Asa]

i can talk about yoshi later

 

[Brendannn]

does anyone have advice on using pivot grabs? i've noticed that ness has a great pivot grab and obvious great follow ups after a grab so i'd like to know how to use them effectively in battle.

 

[Noa.]

Hey guys. So I have been playing around with Ness for a while and enjoy the character but mainly put my focus in Meta Knight. I have come to accept that there are just some MUs I am better off using a secondary for. In addition, I would like to be competitive for a customs format and MK is just not very good with customs.

The MUs I am struggling with are and mainly. I also fight a buttload of and (easier but still really stressful). Based off what I've posted here do you think it's worth it to develop my Ness further? I know the character to a playable level so I am not starting from scratch here.

Ness is probably one of the best characters to pick against ZSS. He's definitely one of her harder matchups.

Lots of Ness players like the Falcon matchup. While he can be very aggressive offstage and in his juggles, we can pk thunder harass him for a very long time. I get the impression that this matchup is in Falcon's favor.

Luigi and Yoshi are both evenish matchups. Some people think that one or two of these matchups we might have a slight disadvantage in, but most people think they're even matchups. Ness does decently against both of them in any case.

Though I know that MK is a high tier character in this game. I'm not sure what his matchup spread is like, but I don't know if you actually NEED a secondary. But a secondary could be useful I'm sure.

 

[rosetta_stoned]

does anyone have advice on using pivot grabs? i've noticed that ness has a great pivot grab and obvious great follow ups after a grab so i'd like to know how to use them effectively in battle.

Pivot grabs with ness imo have their time and place like if you've intentionally or unintentionally conditioned them, or exploiting a bad habit of theirs. My only advice would be to use them sparingly. Hes just too slow to use them as effectively as some of the other cast members. Maybe i need to implement it more into my play but i hardly ever use it. I feel charging at your opponent on the ground is usually already a mistake with ness.

 

[Earthbound360]

Pivot grabs with ness imo have their time and place like if you've intentionally or unintentionally conditioned them, or exploiting a bad habit of theirs. My only advice would be to use them sparingly. Hes just too slow to use them as effectively as some of the other cast members. Maybe i need to implement it more into my play but i hardly ever use it. I feel charging at your opponent on the ground is usually already a mistake with ness.

I agree with this. You do it in training mode and think "oh this is awesome!" But when you bring it to a realistic setting, you notice that it can be practical, but isn't revolutionary. I mostly catch obvious rolls, REALLY aggressive approaches, or opponents landing when they have no more mobility options with pivot grabs.

 

[Uffe]

I have nobody to try this against, so I thought I'd ask here. Can the PSIM move a character that is blocking, or no?

 

[Asa]

No.

About Yoshi:
1. Don't get hit by fair offstage
2. Shield his fair->jab and punish
3. Be aware of egg lay mixups
4. He has to fish for kills most of the time so don't run into things

Matchup is even imo

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

I was playing a really good Roy this afternoon. He got me, and I didn't know what to do as a landing option, since he could read every projectile I used. What can I use as a landing option to keep opponents distant?

 

[Earthbound360]

I was playing a really good Roy this afternoon. He got me, and I didn't know what to do as a landing option, since he could read every projectile I used. What can I use as a landing option to keep opponents distant?

Well you most certainly shouldn't be using projectiles to land. All of Ness' projectiles are all fairly laggy or have startup.

Mixing up fast falling and shielding, air dodging, and aerials (bair is the safest) are your best bet. I'm not sure if Roy is one of the characters that bair is safe on shield for though. Grabbing the ledge to reset can be a good option too.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Well you most certainly shouldn't be using projectiles to land. All of Ness' projectiles are all fairly laggy or have startup.

Mixing up fast falling and shielding, air dodging, and aerials (bair is the safest) are your best bet. I'm not sure if Roy is one of the characters that bair is safe on shield for though. Grabbing the ledge to reset can be a good option too.

I wasn't using projectiles to land, I just did not know what to do. Thanks for the help!

 

[Noa.]

I wasn't using projectiles to land, I just did not know what to do. Thanks for the help!

The way you worded your question made it sound like you were landing with projectiles haha. But it's all good. I'm happy that these boards were able to help you.

 

[omgitsrichie]

I, too, am having trouble with the ZSS and Yoshi matchups, despite both supposedly being even-ish or even slightly in our favor.

: I'm constantly getting outspaced. With her zairs, aerials, paralyzer, and plasma whip, dash grabs I can never approach safely. Aerials usually result in a trade. I'm constantly getting forced into a defensive position and can never apply pressure of my own; all the damage I inflict comes from punishes. Edgeguarding off stage is too risky since her down B can spike. She's too good at outmaneuvering my PK Thunder harassment. I'm constantly getting grabbed, which is usually followed by a d-throw to u-air chain and finished off at 60% by Boost Kick. Or she'll use it following a d-smash read, or as an out of shield option. I lost all three of my stocks in one game at my last tourney thanks to that stupid Up B. =__=

For what it's worth, I'm usually able to take a game by counterpicking Duck Hunt as a stage thanks to its higher(?) ceiling. What other stages are good for this matchup?

Here's a set I played against a ZSS. A lot of the mistakes the commentators critiqued were actually mis-inputs. Definitely should lay off the PK Thunder though :|
http://www.twitch.tv/stlbarwarz/b/671604940?t=92m11s

: Pretty much having the same issues as the ZSS matchup, the only saving grace being that I don't get killed stupid early. On the other hand, it's even harder to play defensively since Yoshi can apply a ton of shield pressure. All of his aerials seem to out-range and out-prioritize mine. My aerial and ground approaches are always halted by the egg throws. I have a hard time going in for the optimal punish since none of Yoshi's moves seem to have any end lag. I'm also afraid of challenging his f-air spike off-stage. PK Thunder sniping doesn't work well since Yoshi has super armor on his double jump. It's hard to follow up on a good PK Fire read since he's always able to escape somehow by jumping out.

Of course I also have trouble against the obvious Sheiks and Sonics but we don't have any of those at our locals.

 

[Tito Maas]

Can someone please tell me how to escape PK Fire. I can't just shield because I'll get grabbed

 

[Uffe]

I, too, am having trouble with the ZSS and Yoshi matchups, despite both supposedly being even-ish or even slightly in our favor.

: I'm constantly getting outspaced. With her zairs, aerials, paralyzer, and plasma whip, dash grabs I can never approach safely. Aerials usually result in a trade. I'm constantly getting forced into a defensive position and can never apply pressure of my own; all the damage I inflict comes from punishes. Edgeguarding off stage is too risky since her down B can spike. She's too good at outmaneuvering my PK Thunder harassment. I'm constantly getting grabbed, which is usually followed by a d-throw to u-air chain and finished off at 60% by Boost Kick. Or she'll use it following a d-smash read, or as an out of shield option. I lost all three of my stocks in one game at my last tourney thanks to that stupid Up B. =__=

For what it's worth, I'm usually able to take a game by counterpicking Duck Hunt as a stage thanks to its higher(?) ceiling. What other stages are good for this matchup?

Here's a set I played against a ZSS. A lot of the mistakes the commentators critiqued were actually mis-inputs. Definitely should lay off the PK Thunder though :|
http://www.twitch.tv/stlbarwarz/b/671604940?t=92m11s

: Pretty much having the same issues as the ZSS matchup, the only saving grace being that I don't get killed stupid early. On the other hand, it's even harder to play defensively since Yoshi can apply a ton of shield pressure. All of his aerials seem to out-range and out-prioritize mine. My aerial and ground approaches are always halted by the egg throws. I have a hard time going in for the optimal punish since none of Yoshi's moves seem to have any end lag. I'm also afraid of challenging his f-air spike off-stage. PK Thunder sniping doesn't work well since Yoshi has super armor on his double jump. It's hard to follow up on a good PK Fire read since he's always able to escape somehow by jumping out.

Of course I also have trouble against the obvious Sheiks and Sonics but we don't have any of those at our locals.

Spoiler: Zamus

Based on that video, you attempted some PKT2s, which isn't something you should really use consecutively. And using PKT around your opponent is also another thing you should avoid since it just leaves you open. When Zamus does her down B, she's leaving herself to get hit by PKT, you just need to aim it better. This Zamus was baiting you by going from one side of the stage to the other and waiting on your mistakes. It's risky, but sometimes when Zamus uses her paralyzer, I bat it back at her, so it'll leave her in a bad spot instead. Unlike Link's arrows having an infinite charge, Zamus' paralyzer does have a limit on charging, so you can time the reflect. And PSIM is good since you can roll away right after it absorbs. Of course Zamus could just tech chase you afterwards, so jumping out or attacking after absorbing might be better option.

Your airdodging is very reactionary as well. Because of this, your opponents in general can take advantage of your airdodging and delay their attacks to combo you or kill you. I want to say something about your PKF usage. It's fine since this Zamus wasn't really escaping it in time for her not to get grabbed, but some players will escape or jab while getting burned, so it's good to note how your opponent reacts while in PKF. If the jab, just spam PKF. If they escape it, instead of going for grabs, go for aerials. Often times they'll be moving away from the PKF and not towards you, so you'll know where they're going to go. Zamus' Boost Kick can be DI'd. She can follow your DI, though, so if you're going to DI, don't be predictable about it. Say she's just up Bing and you DI to the right while she's going to the left, you should survive that. However, if she reads you, she'll hit you anyway. As for her grabs, if you know she's grab happy, spotdodge more.

Spoiler: Yoshi

Yoshi is pretty ridiculous this time around because of his priority and recovery options, as well as good aerial mobility. The Egg Toss can be tedious to deal with, but you can just run under them until he starts pulling back on the throws and making them closer to him. Know that when you get close, Yoshi really has no reason to use his eggs. At that point, he'll probably try to grab you with his tongue and put you in an egg or block your oncoming attack. Off stage, you don't really want to challenge Yoshi. His fair and dair can really mess you up, and with that second jump super armor, your attacks won't be doing much of anything. However, that super armor shouldn't stay the whole duration of his second jump. PKT may not make Yoshi flinch while he's off stage, but at least you're dealing some damage on him. That's what he does with his eggs and it works. PKF can be good on Yoshi, but it's almost useless because he can just jump out. So remember what I said about other opponents? If you know that PKF is going to be escaped, go for an aerial instead of a grab.

Playing against a good Yoshi enough times, you'll figure him out. I remember playing against one that comes on this site, but he hasn't responded to me lately, so my match up against Yoshi is lacking. Still, I've had some good matches, so I kind of know a thing or two.

As for Sonic and Sheik, I don't really have anything to say about them. I haven't played against enough good ones.

 

[Uffe]

Can someone please tell me how to escape PK Fire. I can't just shield because I'll get grabbed

For your main, I'd imagine an up B would benefit you as an escape. But that leaves you open afterwards. Still, it might do some good, otherwise just block and try to roll or jump out.

 

[Dumpabump]

I'm new to Ness, but I want him as my Secondary.

What are some Ness ATs I should know, and what are his best and worse matchups?

 

[Superbat]

Is sonic a good secondary for ness? I like them both but can't decide on who to main. If he isn't, then who would be a good secondary for ness?

 

[Earthbound360]

I'm new to Ness, but I want him as my Secondary.

What are some Ness ATs I should know, and what are his best and worse matchups?

Important ones to know are Magnet cancelling, PKF lag cancelling, pivot grabs/PKFs, and tomahawking.
As of late, I've been getting a LOT of mileage out of PK jumps, so I've gotta recommend that too.

Worst matchups are Sonic, Sheik, and Rosalina.

Is sonic a good secondary for ness? I like them both but can't decide on who to main. If he isn't, then who would be a good secondary for ness?

Can't go wrong with Sheik. Zamus is a solid choice, and Mario supposedly covers most of Ness' bad matchups. I recommend the plumber.

 

[Dumpabump]

Important ones to know are Magnet cancelling, PKF lag cancelling, pivot grabs/PKFs, and tomahawking.
As of late, I've been getting a LOT of mileage out of PK jumps, so I've gotta recommend that too.

Worst matchups are Sonic, Sheik, and Rosalina.

I can't seem to get PKF lag cancel to work. I'm not able to get the dair out in time. Any tips for that?

 

[Earthbound360]

I can't seem to get PKF lag cancel to work. I'm not able to get the dair out in time. Any tips for that?

Use the PKF sooner in the jump.

 

[Dumpabump]

Use the PKF sooner in the jump.

Alright, I'll try it out some more

Thanks!

 

[crashbfan]

anyone else struggle with lucas quite a lot?

 

[Earthbound360]

anyone else struggle with lucas quite a lot?

I played against my friend's Lucas a ton tonight, I'm tempted to say it's in our favor actually.

Btw... do I know you from somewhere?