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Q&A Have a Question? We'll give you a "Hint" - Ness Question/Answer Thread (CHECK HERE)

CaptainZeroSkill

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
20
What is a dair cancel?
A Dair cancel is when you land within frames 1-19 of Dair( before the hitbox comes out.) This eliminates the end lag of the move. It can be done with all aerials, but since Dair has the most frames before the hitbox comes out it is the most commonly used.
 

BoxedOccaBerrys

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
271
Location
Midland, Michigan
NNID
BoXeDOccaBerrys
So doing the dair cancel cancels ending-lag? so does that mean you can land without ANY lag or something...? or am i just not understanding?
 

Professor Oats

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
61
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
NNID
Professor_Oats
So doing the dair cancel cancels ending-lag? so does that mean you can land without ANY lag or something...? or am i just not understanding?
Yup. The hitbox doesn't come out, but you have no lag, helps for when you're tumbling and need to land, or just to pretend to attack, there's a sparkle and people have a slightly higher chance to stay in shield so you can emptyhop into grab more.

I have been trying to get used to it with Ness recently, I do it with Kirby often because he shouts "hup" while landing and it messes with people when the sound it on. Fsann, Japanese Ness badass, uses dair cancels really well.
 

ItsIve

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
43
So I've been trying out Ness lately and I'm really loving it, although I have a couple questions:

1) Are there any good uses for PK Flash? I feel like there's a lot of potential with it, but I'm not really sure.

2) Which of Ness' aerials auto-cancel and/or safe on shield?

3) Is there any point to jabbing, or should I mostly just use down-tilt?

4) Does Ness have any cool perfect pivot techs?

5) How can you make it so that Ness has a safer time landing?
 

manrangan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
62
Location
North Carolina
NNID
manrangan
3DS FC
1289-8629-2870
Switch FC
SW-8204-8475-7607
So I've been trying out Ness lately and I'm really loving it, although I have a couple questions:

1) Are there any good uses for PK Flash? I feel like there's a lot of potential with it, but I'm not really sure.

2) Which of Ness' aerials auto-cancel and/or safe on shield?

3) Is there any point to jabbing, or should I mostly just use down-tilt?

4) Does Ness have any cool perfect pivot techs?

5) How can you make it so that Ness has a safer time landing?
1) Nah, PK Flash is trash. If you're lucky you might pull off an edge guard with it for style points but that's it. 5) Just nair when you're trying to land.
 

ItsIve

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
43
1) Nah, PK Flash is trash. If you're lucky you might pull off an edge guard with it for style points but that's it. 5) Just nair when you're trying to land.
Not even uncharged/semi-charged PK Flash has any practical uses?
 

XCounter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Messages
102
Location
In the lab, London
NNID
CrossCounter
3DS FC
2981-7233-0181
Anyone have any tips on intentionally landing the weak hit of certain aerials? I want to experiment with the weak hit of nair and bair but I can't land them consistently.
 

manrangan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
62
Location
North Carolina
NNID
manrangan
3DS FC
1289-8629-2870
Switch FC
SW-8204-8475-7607
Anyone have any tips on intentionally landing the weak hit of certain aerials? I want to experiment with the weak hit of nair and bair but I can't land them consistently.
Lab the hitboxes for the weak hits, and when you figure out where the hitbox is, learn how to space yourself to consistently hit your opponent with it.
 

Pazx

hoo hah
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
1,590
Location
Canberra, Australia
NNID
Pazx13
Weak hit of nair and bair are both LATE hits, not sourspots in the traditional sense, so start the move earlier and hit with the later part of the move. Nair is strong from frames 5-12 and weak frames 13-15, Bair is strong for only 2 frames (10-11) and weak from 12-18 so you have a larger window to get the weak hit with bair.

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Ness
 

SirBacon

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
37
Location
Lebanon, Tennesee
NNID
Seymorebuts
I have been playing Ness ever since N64 and I have been placing better and better lately. I wonder if my controls may hinder my performance though, I use wii u pro with tap jump off y as grab and flipped zl and zr with l and r. I have been placed as best Ness player in TN and at placed very highly at nationals. Especially placing at tipped off 11 in the top 30% out of 400 and the highest placing player under 18. I need to further my gameplay and would really appreciate any thoughts about best controls!
 

Asa

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
6,765
Location
Hawaii
So I've been trying out Ness lately and I'm really loving it, although I have a couple questions:

1) Are there any good uses for PK Flash? I feel like there's a lot of potential with it, but I'm not really sure.

2) Which of Ness' aerials auto-cancel and/or safe on shield?

3) Is there any point to jabbing, or should I mostly just use down-tilt?

4) Does Ness have any cool perfect pivot techs?

5) How can you make it so that Ness has a safer time landing?
1)pkflash can be used to punish characters' recoveries sometimes, if they are super linear. You can use it to occupy space to force the opponent to recover a certain way. It also combos into uair if it connects. Experiment with it. It's certainly not the best tool, but you can squeeze it into your play.

2) I believe all his aerials can auto cancel. Bair would be safest on shield if you space it very well. You can also double jump your aerials too to prevent punishment, but then you'll have to land.

3) jab is a good tool up close. Use it. Dtilt is also good, but it comes with some risks. It's definitely worth it though since you can get some strong punishes off of a dtilt trip. It really comes down to what percents you are at. Since the opponent can react out of the dtilt (no hitstun) you could get hit pretty hard if it doesn't trip. If you're not in any danger though, throw it out. It'll link into a fsmash, dsmash, or whatevs

4) sadly no he doesn't . Nesses perfect pivot is mediocre, and his utilt is subpar for it. Ftilt is aight but you can just retreating ftilt .

5) space yourself as well as you can. Go for ledges or platforms. Stall yourself with psi magnet. watch the opponent to see how he's trying to pinish you. Is he sitting in shield? Is he charging a smash or walking away ? Figure out your counterattack from here .



I have been playing Ness ever since N64 and I have been placing better and better lately. I wonder if my controls may hinder my performance though, I use wii u pro with tap jump off y as grab and flipped zl and zr with l and r. I have been placed as best Ness player in TN and at placed very highly at nationals. Especially placing at tipped off 11 in the top 30% out of 400 and the highest placing player under 18. I need to further my gameplay and would really appreciate any thoughts about best controls!
The best controls are the ones that allow you personally to perform optimally.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
What are other followups Ness has outside of forward air out of down throw? I also wanna know what I should do instead if the opponent DIs or airdodges.

Another thing, is tap jump good or not for Ness? I always tend to mess up double jump fair because I use my second jump after jumping with the :GCX:or :GCY: buttons by using the control stick intending to do my aerials but I end up doing my midair jump. Most people use c-stick for aerials but I haven't gotten used to it yet myself.
 
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EnhaloTricks

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
197
Location
Texas
What are other followups Ness has outside of forward air out of down throw? I also wanna know what I should do instead if the opponent DIs or airdodges.
Uair is a great follow up and can link to itself until around 50%ish. If they DI towards you you can uair or if they end up going behind you you can bair. Fair can still work you just have to fade backwards a little (asa did it a lot in his recently posted matches if you want visual evidence). They shouldn't be able to AD out of the dthrow -> followup at low percents.

Another thing, is tap jump good or not for Ness? I always tend to mess up double jump fair because I use my second jump after jumping with the :GCX:or :GCY: buttons by using the control stick intending to do my aerials but I end up doing my midair jump. Most people use c-stick for aerials but I haven't gotten used to it yet myself.
Personal preference. I would say no because his double jump is very important and you want complete control over it. Tilt sticking is good for Ness' aerials as they let you do fade away fairs and SHFF uairs easier, imo.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Uair is a great follow up and can link to itself until around 50%ish. If they DI towards you you can uair or if they end up going behind you you can bair. Fair can still work you just have to fade backwards a little (asa did it a lot in his recently posted matches if you want visual evidence). They shouldn't be able to AD out of the dthrow -> followup at low percents.


Personal preference. I would say no because his double jump is very important and you want complete control over it. Tilt sticking is good for Ness' aerials as they let you do fade away fairs and SHFF uairs easier, imo.
Thanks for the advice! I'll definitely keep this in mind, I don't really use up air much as Ness but I guess I'll fix that. I'm gonna experiment with no tap jump for Ness and go for c-sticked aerials and see if it clicks with me over the next few days.
 

EnhaloTricks

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
197
Location
Texas
Thanks for the advice! I'll definitely keep this in mind, I don't really use up air much as Ness but I guess I'll fix that. I'm gonna experiment with no tap jump for Ness and go for c-sticked aerials and see if it clicks with me over the next few days.
Uair is great. One of his better aerials (though, let's be honest, they're all good except dair aand it's niche uses lol). It is a good landing option along with nair. And it does an absurd amount of damage lol
 

Asa

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
6,765
Location
Hawaii
I like tilt stick personally.

For dthrow uair is a great option. If they are air dodging you could do whatever lol
 

Cooly23

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
27
3DS FC
4167-5547-7609
What are some characters that "counter" Ness, i would like to know so i can have a secondary player in Smash 4
 

Ness Lee

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
24
Location
Philadelphia
NNID
Helpimkidnapped1
What are some characters that "counter" Ness, i would like to know so i can have a secondary player in Smash 4
Counter? Or compliment as a secondary? The best counter for Ness is Rosalina & Luma. A good secondary would be anyone fast IMO. Sheik, Sonic, ZSS, etc.
 

Cooly23

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
27
3DS FC
4167-5547-7609
Counter? Or compliment as a secondary? The best counter for Ness is Rosalina & Luma. A good secondary would be anyone fast IMO. Sheik, Sonic, ZSS, etc.
Thank you for this information.
 

BoxedOccaBerrys

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
271
Location
Midland, Michigan
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BoXeDOccaBerrys
Well, I'm a former ness main, here to ask some questions about my old main~

I'm mainly debating on :4ness: , :4lucas: , or :4pikachu: as my secondary, so I'm asking some questions on Ness and his matchups.

Now, who would you say are :4ness: 's worse matchups? Since I never had many problems with any character beside :4luigi: .

How would you say :4ness: fairs against :4sheik: ? Would you say Sheik is a good matchup for :4ness: ?

I have trouble with Characters like :4link: and :4tlink:, or really any projectile heavy character, (for some reason I have trouble with :4rob: )

Please help, and feel free to be extremely mean when it comes to answers!
 

Ness Lee

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
24
Location
Philadelphia
NNID
Helpimkidnapped1
Well, I'm a former ness main, here to ask some questions about my old main~

I'm mainly debating on :4ness: , :4lucas: , or :4pikachu: as my secondary, so I'm asking some questions on Ness and his matchups.

Now, who would you say are :4ness: 's worse matchups? Since I never had many problems with any character beside :4luigi: .

How would you say :4ness: fairs against :4sheik: ? Would you say Sheik is a good matchup for :4ness: ?

I have trouble with Characters like :4link: and :4tlink:, or really any projectile heavy character, (for some reason I have trouble with :4rob: )

Please help, and feel free to be extremely mean when it comes to answers!
The worst IMO are Rosa, Villager, Sheik and Mario. Personally I have a hard time against Lucas too. Link can be rough, but once you get past his projectiles, Ness wins solidly.
 

Dj.D

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
86
What's the best way to deal with Ness players who like to hit themselves with PK Thunder while on stage so they hit you? Especially when they use it while you're both in the air? Often it's not safe to block it and air dodging it is hard too. Hard to tell sometimes where they might go when the PK Thunder hits. Run away? Get hit by the projectile so it doesn't hit Ness? (but then you may get juggled afterward.) These kinds of players just use it randomly it seems, charge up a PK Thunder out of nowhere and can somehow read what I am trying to do and might hit me. Not always, but it's easier to deal with it if they do it while they are on the ground. This is probably easier to deal with if using Rosalina or Villager.

I somewhat main Ness, but feel like that technique makes no sense to do, since it seems to leave you open, yet it works with these players. Often because of the situation, it's not safe to run in to hit them to stop them before the PK Thunder hits them. And often if I run into any Ness players that do this, they seem to do it just to be annoying or troll. I haven't watched that many Ness videos yet, but is it common use PK Thunder on yourself like that in tournaments?
 

Xavix

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
294
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Light Laboratories
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xavix5
Any tips on beating Link?
He's easy combo bait, but watch out for D-air as it is really fast. Edge guarding him is incredibly easy as well as there isn't much he can do, but try not to get forced into PK-thundering offstage while edgeguarding or it could be the stock. Finally, it is incredibly easy to perfect shield Links projectiles compared to others, so just running and shielding in the neutral seems to be your best bet. (and SHAD)
 

my_T

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
352
ness's neutral game. how do you guys play it? i find that he is quite hard to play effectively when going against a good opponent
 

Baby_Sneak

Smash Champion
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May 28, 2014
Messages
2,029
Location
Middletown, Ohio
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sneak_diss
ness's neutral game. how do you guys play it? i find that he is quite hard to play effectively when going against a good opponent
Important tools are:

Nair
Fair
Bair
Uair
Grab

It's very important to be observant and watch what your opponent does. Dance in and out his range, mix up your attack rhythm, mix up your movement, etc...

http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702
 

Lord Horatio

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
87
Location
DFW
Given FOW's recent placements in PAX and Genesis, was Ness put too low on the tier list in your opinion?
 

blue_flavored

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 3, 2015
Messages
96
NNID
blueflavored
What's the best way to deal with Ness players who like to hit themselves with PK Thunder while on stage so they hit you? Especially when they use it while you're both in the air? Often it's not safe to block it and air dodging it is hard too. Hard to tell sometimes where they might go when the PK Thunder hits. Run away? Get hit by the projectile so it doesn't hit Ness? (but then you may get juggled afterward.) These kinds of players just use it randomly it seems, charge up a PK Thunder out of nowhere and can somehow read what I am trying to do and might hit me. Not always, but it's easier to deal with it if they do it while they are on the ground. This is probably easier to deal with if using Rosalina or Villager.

I somewhat main Ness, but feel like that technique makes no sense to do, since it seems to leave you open, yet it works with these players. Often because of the situation, it's not safe to run in to hit them to stop them before the PK Thunder hits them. And often if I run into any Ness players that do this, they seem to do it just to be annoying or troll. I haven't watched that many Ness videos yet, but is it common use PK Thunder on yourself like that in tournaments?
Honestly the best thing you can do is just be prepared for it. I know that's easier said than done. I personally like to use it onstage in 2 different ways. The first way is use it directly under my opponent. Most people think Ness is going to to use up air when he jumps at them and most people will try to air dodge. If spaced correctly, I can get them with the stun on the pk thunder as it comes out and it usually throws off their air dodge timing and it's usually a free stock. The other way is I try to catch them as they're landing. Most people try to air dodge and when they do it right before landing they get hit with that landing lag and my hit boxes are still active.

DO NOT try to hit the ball. That's a good way to potentially lose a stock. Disjoints can usually his Ness as long as the PK thunder tail doesn't hit first. If they use it on the ground and youre already on the ground just shield it, assuming you don't have a low shield. You can punish Ness for it but don't take too long since Ness doesn't have very much lag if hes already on the ground.
 

BahnCalamari

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
8
Location
Canada
Thoughts on the Ding Dong DK matchup?

I have little experience vs him and I am looking for tips. I am certain I will be one at an upcoming event.
 

Earthboundy

Smash Apprentice
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Nov 21, 2014
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136
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South Jersey
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Earthboundy
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Thoughts on the Ding Dong DK matchup?

I have little experience vs him and I am looking for tips. I am certain I will be one at an upcoming event.
I've played Vex a bunch since he's in my region and a close friend of mine mains DK so I know the MU.

I'd say is near even. If I had to say who wins, I'd lean towards DK but it's basically 55-45. DK does out range Ness and can juggle him with up tilts and nairs. Another problem with the MU is range. Down tilt as a punish beats out a lot of Ness' approach options. Off stage is very player dependent. Some DKs like to risk going off and hitting with bairs. It's risky but compared to most of the cast's options against Ness off stage it can be kinda scary. While it isn't a disjoint, it does have range which is always something to look out for. His weight also means he won't die to back throw till about 130% from center stage. Don't get hasty and stale it by using at when he is under 90%.

From ness' side fair is an incredible move in the MU since DK is heavy you'll pretty much always be able to link more than one fair after a short hop until 50%ish. Since his up b is vulnerable at his head you can keep him off and do a lot of damage with PK thunder. If you're feeling super confident, dair also works to secure a kill.


This is pure speculation from me and could be completely false but bair seems to be a great approach option since it has good shield knockback and can't be punished with a down tilt.

I'd be happy to answer anymore questions.
 

Pryze

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
76
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Jacksonville, FL
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Apollon1an
Thoughts on the Ding Dong DK matchup?

I have little experience vs him and I am looking for tips. I am certain I will be one at an upcoming event.
I play a very good DK main almost on the daily, and have crafted my own way to play the MU. Ness vs. DK is always an MU that I've thought to be even--DK's range on all his BAir, Ftilt, Dtilt, and even his grab allow him to effectively keep Ness bay and punish his approach optiosn, very easily trumping his meager grab range and, most importantly, allowing for him to challenge Ness's aerials. Your best approach options are BAir and Dash Attack, both are disjointed, have a fair amount of range (moreso the latter), and allow Ness to effectively weave in and out of DK's range. FAir is a fantastic anti-air against DK, as only his BAir is able to beat its range and disjoint, and, as mentioned in the post above, if you manage to get one, you will very easily be able to link more.

When caught about you, abuse DK's poor landing options with UAir, PKTs, and pivot grabs--do your best to make sure that you apply immense amounts of pressure to DK when juggling.

Finally, DK is amongst the easiest characters to edge-guard in Sm4sh. There are a plethora of methods to which Ness can utilize to gimp DK. Aerial PKF, DSmash, FAir (if you trade with his Up B, this will result in a semi-spike, which will make it so that DK won't have enough lift to recover at any %), and BAir are my usual go-to's with edge-guarding DK. A PKF offstage with result in almost imminent death for DK, as it leaves him in the prime position for a stage spike or DAir. BAir and DSmash are most effective at higher %'s, for obvious reasons.

Also, Ding Dong Kill %: ~70-76%. We were blessed with a very small kill window, so yeah. That's about it.
 
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EmpireCrusher203

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
79
Location
Florida
3DS FC
3926-7161-9170
Any tips on how to use Ness's Nair? I've been using it as an approach option, but that's it. Does it have any other uses?
 
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