Q&A Have a Question? We'll give you a "Hint" - Ness Question/Answer Thread (CHECK HERE)

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Is Ness' Up-Throw useless now?

 

[EnhaloTricks]

Is Ness' Up-Throw useless now?

Basically. It's good as a mix up, but that's about it.

 

[Asa]

Can kill nice on delfino, has solid damage (won't be stale like the other throws) and puts the opponent in the air to juggle. Not useless.

There are some characters that Id rather have up in the air as opposed to offstage, such as villager

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I'm maining Ness now and he's so much fun, but I feel like I'm not using some of his moves as often as I MAYBE should? I want your guys opinions and stuff, what uses do these moves have that you use them for.
Dtilt-it's nice tripping rate is cool and that it can be used immediately after an Ariel or something, but it's horrid range and tiny hit stun makes its uses very limited.
Usmash-It is very fast on reaction being F6, but it's slow to come all around, it seems like a decent anti-air but using it to KO is a big No-no
Utilt-I try to sometimes juggle with this, but it's bad horizontal range makes it tough, but can be used to surprisingly KO.
Dair-Umm.......does anyone really ever use this?
Uthrow-It's base damage is nice and that it has high base knock back and with rage it can surprisingly kill under 150%(did it on a Falco while at like 120 rage maybe? He was at like 130 or so and it killed him) but mostly Bthrow is better for killing, but it puts the opponent above Ness so yea.

Also does Fthrow really have set knock back? Or is its knock back scaling so low it's virtually non existent?

 

[manrangan]

How does one space D-Smash so that it actually hits after a ledge trump (and preferably if you could get a game screenshot or something it'd be nice lol)? I tend to miss it at times and I feel so derpy when I do. x.x

Depends on whether or not they approach the ledge f

I'm maining Ness now and he's so much fun, but I feel like I'm not using some of his moves as often as I MAYBE should? I want your guys opinions and stuff, what uses do these moves have that you use them for.
Dtilt-it's nice tripping rate is cool and that it can be used immediately after an Ariel or something, but it's horrid range and tiny hit stun makes its uses very limited.
Usmash-It is very fast on reaction being F6, but it's slow to come all around, it seems like a decent anti-air but using it to KO is a big No-no
Utilt-I try to sometimes juggle with this, but it's bad horizontal range makes it tough, but can be used to surprisingly KO.
Dair-Umm.......does anyone really ever use this?
Uthrow-It's base damage is nice and that it has high base knock back and with rage it can surprisingly kill under 150%(did it on a Falco while at like 120 rage maybe? He was at like 130 or so and it killed him) but mostly Bthrow is better for killing, but it puts the opponent above Ness so yea.

Also does Fthrow really have set knock back? Or is its knock back scaling so low it's virtually non existent?

F throw has set knockback.
Also, Up Smash is a good option after spotdodges, and if they're right up on you from behind, you can still hit them. It's a good option sometimes if you're playing on autopilot. But yeah, personally I find it more useful defensively.

 

[Asa]

Fthrow has high base knock back with little scaling.

@ Dee-SmashinBoss : dtilt is a good move, just weigh your risks when using it. Since the opponent has no hitstun, if it doesn't trip, they might hit you hard. Look at the character you're using it on, your percent vs his etc to determine if it's worth the gamble.

Dair has its uses, yeah. The latest patch made the sweet spot larger, so if you find yourself against a character with a linerar recovery, dair can be used effectively there. It's an alright option to catch the opponent off guard while trying to land, but not the best.

Also if you want to be cute and slightly gimmicky, use it on a Spotdodge read. It may put the opponent in a strange position (or they may land on the ground for you to jab lock) causing them to freak out with a panic airdodge or whatever for you to capitalize on. just a gimmicky idea, but it's a tool you are given to use as you will

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

How do you DI out of Ness's PK Fire? Thanks.

 

[Lochy]

How do you DI out of Ness's PK Fire? Thanks.

You DI directly away. Imagine pk fire is coming from the left, you DI directly left.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

What are ness' ledge-guard options, besides PK Flash? I use N-Air and sometimes Down-smash on the ledge. for characters with a go to the ledge recovery, like other nesses and lucases, marios and the two pits... then again there are probably way better options for ledge-guarding, im kinda stupid

 

[EnhaloTricks]

What are ness' ledge-guard options, besides PK Flash? I use N-Air and sometimes Down-smash on the ledge. for characters with a go to the ledge recovery, like other nesses and lucases, marios and the two pits... then again there are probably way better options for ledge-guarding, im kinda stupid

More or less all your aerials with particular importance on nair, fair and bair, especially on characters with really linear recovery. There's nothing worse for a Fox, Falco, Rosa (maybe the Pits? and some others) than being faired underneath Smashville or Dreamland.

PKT1 is really good and you should more or less always have one out to edgeguard with, specifically a tailwhip (really good on Falcon). Make a circle or do the figure 8 to take up more space. I also like using it to make a "wall" that they can't pass through, though it's not always effective. Just make sure if they get through it you can cancel it on the stage quickly or you'll get punished for it!

On ledge, Dsmash is really good and reaches below the stage on some stages (BF, for example). Dtilt is really good for the same reason, just no kill power. There's also ledge trumping. My favorite thing to do off a trump is just do a neutral getup to a Dsmash when they regrab. If they don't regrab but jump above, bair or uair for funsies. If you're fast you can catch them on the "bounce" from the trump.

There's also PK Fire. PK Fire gimping is so wonderful cause it's basically free if you can land it. After that you can chase with nair, fair, bair really anything you want and for +5 style points a second PK Fire (but that can be decently risky). Most people will try and jump out of it, so it eats their jump then they just get dragged down. Very satisfying and worthy of an "okeyyy" afterwards :D

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

You DI directly away. Imagine pk fire is coming from the left, you DI directly left.

um, this sounds kind of funny. So if ok fire is traveling from left to right and it hits me, I'm suppose to di left? That does not seem to make sense. Can others confirm this? Thanks.

 

[Lochy]

um, this sounds kind of funny. So if ok fire is traveling from left to right and it hits me, I'm suppose to di left? That does not seem to make sense. Can others confirm this? Thanks.

You DI out off way, whichever way the PK Fire was coming out. Here's a visual representation.

----> = direction


PK Fire --> Hits you here--> DI this way-->

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

do i smash the control stick away, or do i just hold it, and only reply if you are sure, thanks.

 

[Lochy]

do i smash the control stick away, or do i just hold it, and only reply if you are sure, thanks.

Hold it.

 

[Asa]

***** why you gotta jack my avatar

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Can anyone else confirm Lochy's advice? It now sort of makes sense to me. The reason I ask is because one ness player told me to DI up and try to jump out, which seemingly could make sense since pk fire hits at an angle of 80 degrees.

 

[EnhaloTricks]

Can anyone else confirm Lochy's advice? It now sort of makes sense to me. The reason I ask is because one ness player told me to DI up and try to jump out, which seemingly could make sense since pk fire hits at an angle of 80 degrees.

I think it's good. Going up is risky to me cause PK Fire is known to take away double jumps.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Alright, thanks for the help Lochy and EnhaloTricks.

 

[Lochy]

Alright, thanks for the help Lochy and EnhaloTricks.

You're welcome.

 

[Asa]

What are ness' ledge-guard options, besides PK Flash? I use N-Air and sometimes Down-smash on the ledge. for characters with a go to the ledge recovery, like other nesses and lucases, marios and the two pits... then again there are probably way better options for ledge-guarding, im kinda stupid

-bair (strong and can kill off sides well)
-dsmash(goes under ledge , good for more linear recoveries and ledge get up)
-nair:long lasting hitbox covers options well from ledge
PKT: Probsbly ness's best tool for edgeguarding. It's versatile so it can handle different types of recoveries and can go places ness can't.
PKF: again, good for linear recoveries, and can lead to a dair or bair

 

[Asa]

Simply spacing yourself worh your back to the ledge covers a lot of ledge get up options too

 

[thecardiackidofDCVII]

Does anyone here know any other good combos that work with Ness, besides dthrow to fair, dthrow to nair, or up throw to PK Thunder?

Give me any good combos here, they can involve any of his moves. I just need something to mix it up because using dthrow to fair every single time is getting boring.

 

[Lochy]

Does anyone here know any other good combos that work with Ness, besides dthrow to fair, dthrow to nair, or up throw to PK Thunder?

Give me any good combos here, they can involve any of his moves. I just need something to mix it up because using dthrow to fair every single time is getting boring.

One that you can do at zero percent is:

SHFF Up air -> uptilt -> SH Nair -> Bair or Fair (depending where they end up after nair)

Another is downthrow fair -> up air

 

[thecardiackidofDCVII]

One that you can do at zero percent is:

SHFF Up air -> uptilt -> SH Nair -> Bair or Fair (depending where they end up after nair)

Another is downthrow fair -> up air

Are there any other good combos out of his other throws, besides backthrow?

 

[Lochy]

Are there any other good combos out of his other throws, besides backthrow?

Not really.
F throw is suppose to be to get them off the stage and b throw is the kill throw. If you just mix things up out of your d throw you should be fine.

 

[Untamed]

I wanted to main ness originally before I even got the game. I always do well when I use him, but if my opponent can manage to get me off stage (can't be that hard), I rely on my jumps, and when I'm forced to use up b, I SD A LOT. Offline I can recovery fine with up b, but online.. forget it. Not sure if it would be better on anther's ladder or not. I had to switch to yoshi because of it. It's a shame that I can't use ness because of this.


So.. should I just practice recovering with up b for hours in the training room, or what?

 

[Asa]

Nah just like 15 mins should be good

 

[Lochy]

I wanted to main ness originally before I even got the game. I always do well when I use him, but if my opponent can manage to get me off stage (can't be that hard), I rely on my jumps, and when I'm forced to use up b, I SD A LOT. Offline I can recovery fine with up b, but online.. forget it. Not sure if it would be better on anther's ladder or not. I had to switch to yoshi because of it. It's a shame that I can't use ness because of this.


So.. should I just practice recovering with up b for hours in the training room, or what?

You get pretty use to it after doing it for awhile. You should go into training and try to recover from different lengths for like 20 minutes or so.
Also learn how to shoot yourself straight up.

 

[thecardiackidofDCVII]

You get pretty use to it after doing it for awhile. You should go into training and try to recover from different lengths for like 20 minutes or so.
Also learn how to shoot yourself straight up.

I personally think that it's important to learn how to avoid being knocked offstage in the first place. Also, remember to conserve your jump. If you do, you might not even need to recover with up-b

 

[Lochy]

I personally think that it's important to learn how to avoid being knocked offstage in the first place. Also, remember to conserve your jump. If you do, you might not even need to recover with up-b

I sort of agree. Of course you don't wanna get knocked offstage but you will have to deal with it eventually. So practicing both is the most optimal thing to do.

 

[link2702]

question for the ness players here, not really a matchup/major question, but i'm just curious on you guy's opinion....

was the double PK thunder/wall bounce pk thunder intentional? or a glitch?

I mean regardless it should stay in as it definitely helps ness with his risky recovery, but I've been wondering lately if it was somehow a glitch in the coding for PK thunder, or if Sakurai thought it was a good idea to give ness's a strict window for a second chance to use it again should he end up hitting the wall while trying to recover.

also, can ness bounce off the wall more then once, in order to get another chance to pk thunder? i'd take it though, if it isn't possible to do that, then that likely points to it being intended if it limits it to just once bounce from the wall....still curious though

 

[Lochy]

question for the ness players here, not really a matchup/major question, but i'm just curious on you guy's opinion....

was the double PK thunder/wall bounce pk thunder intentional? or a glitch?

I mean regardless it should stay in as it definitely helps ness with his risky recovery, but I've been wondering lately if it was somehow a glitch in the coding for PK thunder, or if Sakurai thought it was a good idea to give ness's a strict window for a second chance to use it again should he end up hitting the wall while trying to recover.

also, can ness bounce off the wall more then once, in order to get another chance to pk thunder? i'd take it though, if it isn't possible to do that, then that likely points to it being intended if it limits it to just once bounce from the wall....still curious though

Its not a glitch it was intentionally put in by the dev team so Ness would have an easier time getting back to the stage.
Also Ness can only do it 1 more time after he bounces off the wall.

 

[Objekshin]

Just wondering, how should ness deal with a particularly projectile-happy link/toon link? Using projectiles of my own just end up with me getting hit by arrows.

 

[Krysco]

I can imagine this question has been asked before but I don't see an FAQ atm and I'd rather not go through 11 pages of questions so I'll ask it. Is there anyway to gimp Ness' recovery like you could in the previous games? To my understanding, PK Thunder can not be interrupted so long as the tail is still touching Ness. Given the tightest circle he can possibly make, is it possible to go to where Ness' feet are and stop the PK Thunder or will it go through and hit Ness anyways?

If you can't gimp Ness like you could before, what are the best ways to gimp or kill a recovering Ness? I know PKT2's distance is cut when it hits something but is there an effective way to gimp him without putting my life in danger?

 

[Uffe]

I can imagine this question has been asked before but I don't see an FAQ atm and I'd rather not go through 11 pages of questions so I'll ask it. Is there anyway to gimp Ness' recovery like you could in the previous games? To my understanding, PK Thunder can not be interrupted so long as the tail is still touching Ness. Given the tightest circle he can possibly make, is it possible to go to where Ness' feet are and stop the PK Thunder or will it go through and hit Ness anyways?

If you can't gimp Ness like you could before, what are the best ways to gimp or kill a recovering Ness? I know PKT2's distance is cut when it hits something but is there an effective way to gimp him without putting my life in danger?

You can literally follow him while he's off stage. He'll probably dodge thinking you're going to hit him, which you can either hit him with a weak aerial, or go down with him to the point that he'll have gone too deep to be able to recover with PKT2. Or you can jump be off stage with him, wait for him to use PKT and gimp him after start up. During start up it'll just go through you. Gimping Ness was obviously made not to be as easy as it once was. The PKT going through bodies at start up, the wall bounce, the double ledge grabbing, it was all intentional by Sakurai & Co. If this was like previous Smash, all you'd have to do is edgehog.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

Is PK Fire to Forward Smash a good kill setup? or is that complete ****?

 

[EnhaloTricks]

Is PK Fire to Forward Smash a good kill setup? or is that complete ****?

It's only really reliable if you can get them with PK Fire within bat range.By the time you run up and bat, there's a good chance they'll get out of the PK Fire.

 

[Asa]

Unless you dair cancel or do it point blank. Pkf isn't that good though so by extension..

 

[---]

http://smashboards.com/threads/match-up-discussion-vs-ness.420936/

Wasn't sure where else to put this, but the Mewtwo board is looking at Ness next and we'd appreciate any in all input.

Back-Throw vs. Up-Throw anyone?

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

Unless you dair cancel or do it point blank. Pkf isn't that good though so by extension..

What is a dair cancel?