Q&A Have a Question? We'll give you a "Hint" - Ness Question/Answer Thread (CHECK HERE)

[Ness Lee]

I feel like my combo game is getting stale. Or rather I feel like I'm becoming repetitive. My approaches are always SH fair and fade back to try to bait an approach, then dash away and turn around PK fire, then into a dthrow to fair string. I hate how repetitive I feel, but doing that type of thing has just been most successful. I feel like I've hit a plateau.

 

[Earthbound360]

I feel like my combo game is getting stale. Or rather I feel like I'm becoming repetitive. My approaches are always SH fair and fade back to try to bait an approach, then dash away and turn around PK fire, then into a dthrow to fair string. I hate how repetitive I feel, but doing that type of thing has just been most successful. I feel like I've hit a plateau.

Your combo game, or your approach? Your combo game should be fairly consistent, consisting of dthrows, fairs, uairs, and PKFs where necessary.

If you mean your approach, you can try new things like pivot grabs, PK Jumps, and falling uairs.

 

[thesage]

Is shff dair by the ledge a good edgeguard option against anybody? I know the hit box for dair is pretty big and it looks like the sparkle goes through the stage.

 

[Earthbound360]

Is shff dair by the ledge a good edgeguard option against anybody? I know the hit box for dair is pretty big and it looks like the sparkle goes through the stage.

It goes through the stage, but the fact that the ledge snap range in this game is huge, and the spike hitbox exists for only 1 frame makes it incredibly difficult to use like that. Not to mention the lag that is has means you'll probably eat a punish for try it if they make it to the ledge.

And I have a question for you thesage. Where have you been? Lol, you're the one who was trying to get me into tournaments way back in the Brawl days. Now I'm a regular at Xanadu and I haven't seen nor heard from you in a while.

 

[thesage]

It goes through the stage, but the fact that the ledge snap range in this game is huge, and the spike hitbox exists for only 1 frame makes it incredibly difficult to use like that. Not to mention the lag that is has means you'll probably eat a punish for try it if they make it to the ledge.

So, only way to use it is after a trump, but d-smash is a better option anyways.

And I have a question for you thesage. Where have you been? Lol, you're the one who was trying to get me into tournaments way back in the Brawl days. Now I'm a regular at Xanadu and I haven't seen nor heard from you in a while.

I'm too lazy to drive up to Baltimore and way too busy with my job. Tournaments and practicing are too stressful for the precious moments of free time I have. I'd rather go outside and have fun. Just play smash when I have free time on the weekdays now. Starting up anther's ladder. I suck at smash 4 though tbh.

 

[Earthbound360]

So, only way to use it is after a trump, but d-smash is a better option anyways.

I'm too lazy to drive up to Baltimore and way too busy with my job. Tournaments and practicing are too stressful for the precious moments of free time I have. I'd rather go outside and have fun. Just play smash when I have free time on the weekdays now. Starting up anther's ladder. I suck at smash 4 though tbh.

I mean, you can try to one-frame people with it, but the lag makes it high risk. After a trump, dsmash is almost always better.

And I see. Seems like life has officially taken over for you

 

[GoblinGamerKid]

So how should Ness go about the ZSS matchup?

 

[Earthbound360]

So how should Ness go about the ZSS matchup?

Shield a lot. Her grab is super high risk.
Don't be too aggressive near the edge unless you wanna get downB'd a whole lot.
Try to stay in her face. You don't want to let her space you with bairs and zairs.
Absorb those blasters when you can.
Do NOT hit her shield. Zamus runs fast enough to punish just about any aerial on block, and her long range grab allows her to shield grab where others cant. Getting grabbed by Zamus sucks.
Learn how to DI boost kick too. This video should help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylVAJur_wVs
Nair is your best friend in this matchup.

 

[Pazx]

Can someone give me a crash course in PSI Vacuum/Vortex/Whatever?

 

[TheMarthRunner]

Any tips on how to counter a villager? I seem to be able to out play him but he always ends ip with stupidly early kills. What is the best way to take him out?

 

[Trauma1]

Anyone have any tips for taking on a Toon Link or Link that spams projectiles?

I was playing one earlier and he would throw boomerangs but i was having issues dealing with them. He could seemingly throw thwm faster than i could deal with them and if i dodged a boomerang an arrow was surely quickly following that boomerang to hit me still. Also bombs prove to be somewhat tricky although i could generally vaccum them or dodge them. However i noticed that sometimes when i vaccum a bomb hed try to close in for a grab.

Whats the best way to handle and approach these two?

 

[abx]

I have a question concerning Ness' dthrow.

I had some Ness mirrors the other day and both of us were able to land some graps on the other one (with less than 60%). Now when my opponent dthrew me he always succeeded in fairing me twice afterwards. Sometimes when I downthrew him my opponent was launched in such a high, almost vertical angle that I missed with fair by a Ridley. I noticed that some characters have a tendency to launch off in unpleasand angles when downthrown by Ness. But now this was a Ness mirror and I'm starting to wonder if there's a way to influence your launching angle when dthrown by Ness.

 

[Lochy]

I have a question concerning Ness' dthrow.

I had some Ness mirrors the other day and both of us were able to land some graps on the other one (with less than 60%). Now when my opponent dthrew me he always succeeded in fairing me twice afterwards. Sometimes when I downthrew him my opponent was launched in such a high, almost vertical angle that I missed with fair by a Ridley. I noticed that some characters have a tendency to launch off in unpleasand angles when downthrown by Ness. But now this was a Ness mirror and I'm starting to wonder if there's a way to influence your launching angle when dthrown by Ness.

Well Ness' down throw does launch opponents a certain way like every other throw. Ness being thrown by Ness doesn't affect anything. Your opponent was probably DI'ing. After you get thrown if you tilt your stick in a certain direction the angle you get launched at will change thus affecting where you end up after the throw. This is great and mandatory to learn to escape combos. If your opponent is still hitting you at 60% percent with double fairs then you have to DI away from them so they will not hit you.

Here's a video that goes into more detail

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PnqgfP7vrTs

And a guide on how to DI every single throw in the game!

http://smashboards.com/guides/how-to-di-all-throws-in-smash-4.341/

 

[Lochy]

Any tips on how to counter a villager? I seem to be able to out play him but he always ends ip with stupidly early kills. What is the best way to take him out?

Villager v Ness isn't the best match up for Ness to begin with. He can pocket your PK fire and Pk Thunder which if pocketed off stage can lead to stupid early gimps. He can challenge your recovery because of how good villagers is. Play safe against villager do not throw out PK Fire or PK thunder unless they don't expect it. Use lots of properly spaced nairs, bairs and fairs. If you can bait him into thinking you'll use pk fire and then use it.

Overall play it safe. He has the tools to bring you to ruin. So don't use pocketable moves too oftern.

 

[MisterDom]

Any tips on countering sheik?

 

[Lochy]

Any tips on countering sheik?

She is one of the toughest match ups Ness has. She has crazy good air game. Can rush us down so much its not even funny and can gimp.
Do not do moves with big chunks of endlag like pk fire, pk thunder, etc. unless you know they will hit. You have to play safe. Use a good bit of properly spaced nairs, bairs and fairs. Its an uphil battle but still doable.

 

[MisterDom]

Thanks for the tip

 

[Lochy]

Thanks for the tip

Happy to help

 

[Asa]

Any tips on countering sheik?

-trade with her (lots of nairs)
-learn to hit her right before she grabs the ledge with her upb
-rolling into her is pretty good if she's commitibg to moving forward
-circle upb around the ledge to catch her out of upb, and aim it high to intercept bouncing fish


But most importantly , once again, flail to maximize trades. If you're not getting gimped she'll have a hard time killing and you can fraud her with rage

 

[Earthbound360]

Asa is right. I can't emphasize enough how important nair is in this matchup. Sheik can't constantly trade with us since we're so much better at killing, and heavier. Nair trades with everything too. Don't get too comfy with fair in neutral since her fair can actually outrange ours, and comes out way faster with less lag. Be content with nair trades.

 

[A17]

Are people mashing backwards both on the joystick and c-stick to get out of PK fires? One of my buddies simply told me you can roll out of it, but I haven't been doing it consistently.

 

[EnhaloTricks]

Are people mashing backwards both on the joystick and c-stick to get out of PK fires? One of my buddies simply told me you can roll out of it, but I haven't been doing it consistently.

Fast fallers can literally just run out of it. Falcon, Fox, etc. At high mid percents most characters can, as well. But if they can just hold shield it'll come up when its ready and then they can time a roll.

Though, if they do that you should be predicting a roll. My favorite punish to that is pkfire (assuming their not super experienced). It's very frustrating for them to get out of one and right into another haha. Of course, grab is a better option off of the roll read, but pkfire can be ore fun for me.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Is there a stage discussion for Ness? I'm interested in what tourney legal stages would be good counter-picks for Ness and Lucas. I'm thinking Castle Seige may put Ness at a disadvantage. Any thoughts?

 

[XCounter]

I've been wondering why there's no stage discussion thread.

Anyway, Castle Siege isn't legal here so I haven't practised on it, but it doesn't seem too bad by the looks of it. The first and third transformations don't look like they'd be much of an issue. The second transformation might be problematic against characters like Sheik, Diddy, Falco, etc if they have the lead, because they could Bouncing Fish/Monkey Flip/Phantasm across the top platforms and we couldn't do anything about it except try to hit with PK Thunder since they could probably capitalise on our slow air speed if we tried to chase them down. We might be able to control a bit of space on the ground by using PK Fire on the statues to create some sort of wall, and the walkoff makes Fthrow a kill throw temporarily, so it's not all bad.

I feel like there are no stages Ness is terrible on, so counterpicking just depends more on your character's strengths. Falco might want to take Ness to Battlefield or T&C, I guess.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Yeah the Falco stage discussion thread has been dormant for a few months, and I'm looking to revive it. Seems the consensus is that stage choice is mostly MU dependent. The last question we had was: when Castle Siege should be selected?- my first thought was Ness/Lucas.

The second transformation is where I thought the advantage for other characters might come as well. The statues can help slow down PK fire and thunder. If Ness got caught doing PK thunder too far off the stage during the second to third transformation, that could be a lost stock as well. But that being said, even if Ness had trouble on the second transformation, his back throw could kill pretty early if you grabbed a opponent close enough to the blast zone since it's a walk off.

Battlefield is my usual pick because of the platforms and low ceiling, but any advantage for a low/middle tier vs high is welcomed.

 

[yoshi8984]

Is Ness still able to negate an opponent's knockback momentum with the PSI Magnet windbox, like he did in Brawl?

What I'm referring to is this. Wondering if there's something he could do in dubs with it to setup a crazy combo or save your partner from dying.

 

[franniested]

Is there a chart out there for number of pummels possible at certain percents? I always seem to neglect pummels for fear of grab releasing. I'm specifically interested in one for ness, but haven't seen anything related for any characters

 

[manrangan]

Anyone know what happened here? Not sure if this is exclusive to Battlefield or not.

 

[Asa]

Is Ness still able to negate an opponent's knockback momentum with the PSI Magnet windbox, like he did in Brawl?

What I'm referring to is this. Wondering if there's something he could do in dubs with it to setup a crazy combo or save your partner from dying.

The windbox doesn't negate knock back anymore.

 

[Cat8752]

Hey Ness boards, I'm a Yoshi main considering picking up Ness as a secondary since he covers plenty of Yoshi's unfavorable match ups. I mean no offense when asking this, but how would you say the learning curve for Ness is, and what do I really have to learn to do with Ness as opposed to other characters?

 

[EnhaloTricks]

Hey Ness boards, I'm a Yoshi main considering picking up Ness as a secondary since he covers plenty of Yoshi's unfavorable match ups. I mean no offense when asking this, but how would you say the learning curve for Ness is, and what do I really have to learn to do with Ness as opposed to other characters?

The hardest thing about Ness is getting good with his recovery, how slow he is compared to other top tiers, and how bad his neutral is (Ness lives in the air) . He doesn't have a lot of AT's so there's not too many fancy things to learn, but they're good to know, like Thunderbouncing.

Overall: Not too hard to pick up and do well with. Decently hard to "master" and place high with. His recovery is just a little too janky to be safe and a lot of people will get kills on you while you're wrapping your PKT around you.

 

[Noa.]

Hey Ness boards, I'm a Yoshi main considering picking up Ness as a secondary since he covers plenty of Yoshi's unfavorable match ups. I mean no offense when asking this, but how would you say the learning curve for Ness is, and what do I really have to learn to do with Ness as opposed to other characters?

Ness is one of the easiest charatcters to play. He's not a complicated character at all. He has huge hitboxes and great frame data on his aerials. If you're used to playing floaty, aerial based characters you won't have a hard time picking up ness.

Learning how to recover well is the hardest part because ness has a poor recovery and hitting yourself correctly with Pk Thunder can be difficult as well.

 

[Cat8752]

Ness is one of the easiest charatcters to play. He's not a complicated character at all. He has huge hitboxes and great frame data on his aerials. If you're used to playing floaty, aerial based characters you won't have a hard time picking up ness.

Learning how to recover well is the hardest part because ness has a poor recovery and hitting yourself correctly with Pk Thunder can be difficult as well.

And his out of shield game is one of his biggest strengths, yes? Because Yoshi with poor OoS options (take notes, those of you wondering about how to beat Yoshis) would be complemented by a character with a strong out of shield game.

 

[Arbok_]

Could someone link me to some Ness v Villager matches? I've been struggling in that matchup lately.

 

[Noa.]

Could someone link me to some Ness v Villager matches? I've been struggling in that matchup lately.

Look up Shaky playing against MJG. It's the only ness villager sets on YouTube that I know of off the top of my head.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

Probably a stupid question.. but im new to the smashboards.... hi!
but as a stupid question... do any of ness' aerial moves auto-cancel on to the ground?
and if so, which aerials?

 

[Noa.]

Probably a stupid question.. but im new to the smashboards.... hi!
but as a stupid question... do any of ness' aerial moves auto-cancel on to the ground?
and if so, which aerials?

So every aerial has a total duration. If you finish the total duration of any aerial before you land, you land with no landing lag.

Sometimes you can land before the total animation of an aerial ends, but you'll land with no landing lag. This is called the autocancel window. So if you land at the end before the animation of the move has ended but after the autocancel window has started, then you will land with no landing lag.

If you land before the auto cancel window starts, you'll have landing lag. The landing lag is different for each aerial.

In a full hop you can completely finish all of Ness's aerials, and have no landing lag. In a short hop you can finish all of Ness's aerials and not have landing lag, except for dair. If you perform an aerial late into your short hop, you'll land with landing lag though.

Ness's uair, nair, and Bair don't have that much landing lag. His dair and fair have quite a bit of landing lag.

You can check the frame data thread if you want more specific information on landing lag and auto cancel windows. I also suggest that you go into training mode and explore just how late and early you can do Ness's aerials in a short hop and still land with no landing lag.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

So every aerial has a total duration. If you finish the total duration of any aerial before you land, you land with no landing lag.

Sometimes you can land before the total animation of an aerial ends, but you'll land with no landing lag. This is called the autocancel window. So if you land at the end before the animation of the move has ended but after the autocancel window has started, then you will land with no landing lag.

If you land before the auto cancel window starts, you'll have landing lag. The landing lag is different for each aerial.

In a full hop you can completely finish all of Ness's aerials, and have no landing lag. In a short hop you can finish all of Ness's aerials and not have landing lag, except for dair. If you perform an aerial late into your short hop, you'll land with landing lag though.

Ness's uair, nair, and Bair don't have that much landing lag. His dair and fair have quite a bit of landing lag.

You can check the frame data thread if you want more specific information on landing lag and auto cancel windows. I also suggest that you go into training mode and explore just how late and early you can do Ness's aerials in a short hop and still land with no landing lag.

Alright thanks! I know N-Air has small ending lag, but i hadn't noticed the ending lag on his Dair! thanks again!

 

[yoshi8984]

How does one space D-Smash so that it actually hits after a ledge trump (and preferably if you could get a game screenshot or something it'd be nice lol)? I tend to miss it at times and I feel so derpy when I do. x.x

 

[Asa]

you just want the yoyo to overlap the ledge lol