Q&A Have a Question? We'll give you a "Hint" - Ness Question/Answer Thread (CHECK HERE)

[Opana]

note: be careful with the timing if you upb without fire cancelling because if you ledge boost the upb (when you upb as you go off the ledge, you gain horizontal momentum) you will run into pk thunder faster and the angle sends you under the stage unlike brawl

This is what I meant by bboosting.

@
Tikao,

I don't believe PKT can ledge cancel, just bboost which gains unwanted momentum. It's not even about hat though, it's about how it sets you up for the ledge shooting PKT2. Think of it like Ganon's Flight of Ganon from SSBB, there are other ways of doing it by why do that when there's an easier way? Asode from ease though, it does set this up nicely.

Also, on BF you bounce off the ledge instead of shooting up, which allows you to use another PKT. May or may not be useful, but I try and share any interesting bits.

 

[Tikao]

that's what i ment, it doesn't literally cancel the up-b, it cancels your dash while running of the ledge in a way, where you keep the dash momentum while you use up-b, which is the boost you see

you generally don't want this boost, since it gives you a bad position and can get you killed easily, so you need to input the up-b later, so you don't keep the momentum

what i just want to say : you don't need a pk-fire cancel input, you can just up-b later with the same result, should be easier to learn the slightly delayed timing for this input instead of using this pk-fire cancel all the time (which sets you up for that timing, but needs another input, you also need to time that pk-fire input, so i don't see the point why you should use it this way)

 

[Opana]

Well, if it sets you up in the same position I'd agree, can anyone confirm? I'm a bit busy atm

 

[ilysm]

EDIT: Nevermind, it's a PM thing. Sorry.

 

[kennypu]

Well, if it sets you up in the same position I'd agree, can anyone confirm? I'm a bit busy atm

I'm sure you can get in the same position by just running off. I'd personally recommend just pk fire canceling as it allows for less mistake, and a big one at that (if you accidentally boost off with pk thunder, that's a stock you just threw away).

 

[Opana]

Yeah, I mean as long as it works it's really no big deal.

Anyway, I thought this was a pretty cool trick, and the fact that PKT goes through them during start up makes this a bit more safe.

Something else I PKF cancel into(Although it likely can be run/walked off) is PKT, but hitting them while they're offstage. Way too risky with little pay off, but still awesome o pull off lol. When aiming the PKT towards the stage though, you have enough time to hit them or the stage should you need to cancel sooner. Both ways, you can grab the ledge after.

 

[Fluggerson]

So i started to play Ness more now and i've been having some trouble approaching. most of the time, my opponent comes to me, but there are those who just stand there too. most of those who stand are characters with lots of projectiles (link, robin, etc.) Also, down throw fair fair. how easy is this to get out of? Does this depend on the character? Some people can get out of it easily while others can just get hit.

 

[Opana]

So i started to play Ness more now and i've been having some trouble approaching. most of the time, my opponent comes to me, but there are those who just stand there too. most of those who stand are characters with lots of projectiles (link, robin, etc.) Also, down throw fair fair. how easy is this to get out of? Does this depend on the character? Some people can get out of it easily while others can just get hit.

I usually go for a pivot grab or PKT do to little lag, and yeah the fair locking doesn't always seem to work. A Lucario air dodged out of my second fair.

 

[kennypu]

i don't think fair lock is "true" (maybe the first one at low percentage on certain characters), but it is definitely easy to chain. I've gimped people with dthrow->full hop fair-> fast fall fair-> full hop fair-> fast fall fair, all the way to the blast zone.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

I notice a lot of Ganondorf players use side-B and follow it up with a down tilt once I land on the ground. Is there any way to get out of this? It gets me every time...

 

[Opana]

I notice a lot of Ganondorf players use side-B and follow it up with a down tilt once I land on the ground. Is there any way to get out of this? It gets me every time...

Yes, tech roll when it happens. Depending on roll distance, they can follow up with another Flame Choke, although that's highly unlikely. I main Ganon and myself have only ever intercepted one tech, so you should be safe from chokes. I'd maybe go behind him to avoid possible Warlock Kicks too.

 

[Taash]

I could use some tips. I feel like I rely on PK Fire as a setup for pretty much anything I do, and it makes me basically free to anyone who can figure that out. I feel like I need some faster options, but all Ness's tilts feel pretty weak to me.

I also feel like I easily get zoned out by people with good projectiles and I don't know how to safely approach. Short hop nair is the best thing I've come up with and its not great.

 

[neomadgic]

I could use some tips. I feel like I rely on PK Fire as a setup for pretty much anything I do, and it makes me basically free to anyone who can figure that out. I feel like I need some faster options, but all Ness's tilts feel pretty weak to me.

I also feel like I easily get zoned out by people with good projectiles and I don't know how to safely approach. Short hop nair is the best thing I've come up with and its not great.

PK Fire is amazing! But if you are spamming it, the opponent can catch on quickly. My favorite approach is to short hop fair. But you gotta space it out so you can't get punished.

And yeah, getting camped by people with projectiles suck. Try to see if they have a rhythm to their projectiles. If they do, just run up and *perfect shield* and continue charging at them.

 

[O Rai]

Can anyone confirm this: Usually when theres distance between me and opponent, i sometimes charge pk flash and land it on myself (i.e. a really long charge). this tactic essentially baits the opponent into running towards me and usually doing a dash attack or throw (either move usually gets hit by the pk flash if i release it before they attack (i still take damage/ get grabbed but they get hit by a slightly delayed pk flash))

Onto the point of this question: Does Charizard have pure invincibility during his grab? (this cost me the match essentially)(i.e. the pk flash with its lingering hotbox, area coverage, and delay still give off the animation (which means it actually work since no animation would've meant it hit the floor/ stage) , but no damage or knock-back effect occurred (charizard glows red as it happens if that signals anything, also he managed to do a few during-grab hits to me during the whole pk flash animation). This has been the first character who has managed to escape the setup purely based off the fact that their grab gave them some sort of super armor/invincibility

(but say this occurs against a Donkey Kong instead: during a fully charged punch (neutral Special, full charge) still takes the damage, yet doesn't get launched (which essentially follows how that specific move works (DK's charged special) so i wasn't surprised at the fact that he didn't launch but only took the (about) 30% damage)

 

[Noa.]

There is no grab armor in this game so he probably interrupted you while you were using pk flash. If you do get interrupted while using PK Flash the animation for it won't go away until it hits the floor or runs out of time, but the hitbox will not appear.

 

[O Rai]

Thats my problem, the animation did appear, which means it should've done damage/killed him. i.e. i technically didn't get interrupted since i released it early enough and the animation occurred right after he grabbed me, right on top of both of us... and i know it didn't hit the floor purely based off the fact that the animation/flash explosions appeared. I wish i could try this theory out better but ill see if my friend can help me since he has capture card.
(he was initially at 90%, which means he would've been brought to around 120%, basically it'ss a safe bet he would've died since pk flash has high knock back) and didn't hit the floor.

 

[Noa.]

If you have the replay just record it with your phone.

 

[pato_]

When it comes to Thunder juggling, is it better to cancel the move or pkt2 into the opponent?

noob question, how do you cancel the PKT?

 

[Eagleye893]

noob question, how do you cancel the PKT?

You either hit the ground or the opponent. Being able to notice when you can't hit the opponent is key so that you can quickly direct it into the ground or a wall and resume normal play.

 

[pato_]

You either hit the ground or the opponent. Being able to notice when you can't hit the opponent is key so that you can quickly direct it into the ground or a wall and resume normal play.

I see, for a second there I thought there was a button or something I could press and cancel the PKT, thanks!

 

[Mataata]

Does Ness's up-b rocket (where he hits himself with PK Thunder) go through shields? Whenever I try to shield it he goes right through and hits me anyway.

 

[Noa.]

His pkt2 does not ignore shields. You must be dropping shield too early.

EDIT: Another Ness and I are in winners finals. Hype

 

[The 0ne]

May I get a list of everything PSI Magnet can absorb?

That question is another in-the-near-future question since it requires some time to test every energy-based, elemental, or long-ranged attack. And I'm perfectly okay with that.

There's a thread of that on the Ness boards, and I made one on the G&W boards, because they're the same. check 'em out. crazy stuff! In fact, my signature below showcases the only characters that have nothing Ness can absorb. Everyone else has something. Yes, even Diddy Kong.

 

[Noa.]

So what are everyone's favorite Ness custom moves? I don't think they offer up too much for him honestly.

I get the impression that all the pk flashes are pretty bad. Maybe Rising pk flash has use in juggles but I see no use for pk Freeze.


Pk fire has an option that matters I think. Lucas's pk fire is somewhat decent. The range increase is really useful and makes it better at punishing whiffs. Plus you can use it in short hops against tall opponents. Against opponents or characters that can escape from default pk fire very quickly I can see it being used. However I don't think many characters fall into that category.

Out of all the pk thunders the default seems the best. Just because it can setup for juggles and is more reliable than the heavy pk thunder while still being threatening unlike Lucas's pk thunder.

For the magnets, is there any advantage the default magnet has over the Lucas magnet? I think the Lucas magnet might have weaker windboxes than the Ness one but that might be it. PSI vacuum is obviously the choice if they don't have an energy projectile.

So yeah for the custom sets the first number is neutral b, second is side b, third is up b, fourth is down b.

2-1-1-3 would probably be my preferred custom set. Rising PK flash, p fire, pk thunder, and forward psi magnet.

2-1-1-2 would be the set against people who don't have energy projectiles, so PSI vacuum instead.

2-3-1-3 would be the set against people who could sdi or escape quickly out of default pk fire, so pk fire burst instead.

2-3-1-2 would be the set against who can sdi default pk fire and don't have energy projectiles.

So that's four different sets. And if you prefer default pk flash you can just replace it. So we'd have a total of eight good custom sets depending on matchup and personal preference.

Unless you think there's an argument to be made about Pk freeze, pk bonfire, the other pk thunders, and default magnet.

 

[The 0ne]

Lucas's Magnet heals at about a x1.2 ratio, and Ness's is x1.6. But Lucas's has a hitbox, so i went with that.

I used to use Lucas's PK Thunder as well, because it can't be gimped as easily and it actually goes farther too. I don't see a viable use for Rolling PK Thunder. A worse recovery? Really? No. Default already can kill at like 70%.

PK Freeze freezes people for a decently long time, but I'm still going with PK Flash.

PK Bonfire does insane damage. I'd say use that for bulky characters.

I LOVE PSI Vacuum. OMG it's so fun to use!

 

[Zeko]

Aside from the dthrow and fair and maybe a couple juggle combos does anyone know of any other type of good move sets for combos?

Also what type of tips do you have that you use to play mind games on opponents?

 

[Ranias]

So what are everyone's favorite Ness custom moves? I don't think they offer up too much for him honestly.

I get the impression that all the pk flashes are pretty bad. Maybe Rising pk flash has use in juggles but I see no use for pk Freeze.


Pk fire has an option that matters I think. Lucas's pk fire is somewhat decent. The range increase is really useful and makes it better at punishing whiffs. Plus you can use it in short hops against tall opponents. Against opponents or characters that can escape from default pk fire very quickly I can see it being used. However I don't think many characters fall into that category.

Out of all the pk thunders the default seems the best. Just because it can setup for juggles and is more reliable than the heavy pk thunder while still being threatening unlike Lucas's pk thunder.

For the magnets, is there any advantage the default magnet has over the Lucas magnet? I think the Lucas magnet might have weaker windboxes than the Ness one but that might be it. PSI vacuum is obviously the choice if they don't have an energy projectile.

So yeah for the custom sets the first number is neutral b, second is side b, third is up b, fourth is down b.

2-1-1-3 would probably be my preferred custom set. Rising PK flash, p fire, pk thunder, and forward psi magnet.

2-1-1-2 would be the set against people who don't have energy projectiles, so PSI vacuum instead.

2-3-1-3 would be the set against people who could sdi or escape quickly out of default pk fire, so pk fire burst instead.

2-3-1-2 would be the set against who can sdi default pk fire and don't have energy projectiles.

So that's four different sets. And if you prefer default pk flash you can just replace it. So we'd have a total of eight good custom sets depending on matchup and personal preference.

Unless you think there's an argument to be made about Pk freeze, pk bonfire, the other pk thunders, and default magnet.

I pretty much agree with this, except:

• I prefer normal PK Flash because I can edgeguard with it.
• I prefer normal PSI Magnet over Forward PSI Magnet since I never hit with Forward PSI Magnet anyway and the increased heal ratio is awesome.

So I'm lame and just prefer the default everything on Ness, lol.
Sometimes I switch to PK Fire Burst (against good PK Fire escapers) or PSI Vacuum (against no energy to absorb) though.

Aside from the dthrow and fair and maybe a couple juggle combos does anyone know of any other type of good move sets for combos?

Also what type of tips do you have that you use to play mind games on opponents?

There aren't really much true combos with Ness. There are alot of safe follow-ups though:

• Up Throw into PK Thunder at medium/high percents.
• PK Fire into a grab, an aerial, or a dash attack depending on DI.
• Forward throw off the edge into PK Thunder at any percent.

As for mind games:

• Edgeguarding with PK Flash can often trip up your opponent into messing up their recovery.
• You can fake a PK Thunder into a PKT2 against a landing opponent that air dodges carelessly into the ground.
• You can try stalling in the air some with PSI Magnet. I think it was Kennypu that found out you can float up with it if you immediately use it after jumping from the edge too. This sort of tactic works with PK Thunder as well; you might be able to PKT2 into your opponent with it, but it is risky.

 

[Noa.]

I pretty much agree with this, except:

• I prefer normal PK Flash because I can edgeguard with it.
• I prefer normal PSI Magnet over Forward PSI Magnet since I never hit with Forward PSI Magnet anyway and the increased heal ratio is awesome.

So I'm lame and just prefer the default everything on Ness, lol.
Sometimes I switch to PK Fire Burst (against good PK Fire escapers) or PSI Vacuum (against no energy to absorb) though.

I didn't know that Ness's psi magnet healed for more. In that case I feel like it's superior just because the Lucas magnet hitbox just won't come into play.

So yeah I suppose 2-1-1-1 would be my preferred default set.

Ness's custom moves suck lol Honestly.

 

[Ranias]

I didn't know that Ness's psi magnet healed for more. In that case I feel like it's superior just because the Lucas magnet hitbox just won't come into play.

So yeah I suppose 2-1-1-1 would be my preferred default set.

Ness's custom moves suck lol Honestly.

Lol. Was just posting about you in the customs thread. Come give insight.

 

[Noa.]

Yeah I only saw the custom thread after I made that second post lol. oops

 

[yoshi8984]

How exactly would you approach with Ness safely (on the 3DS)?

Also I seem to have a lot more difficulty trying to punish shielding/dodging... I feel like when I seem to have an opportunity to attack, I just barely miss my move because they decide to dodge and then I get punished back. >.>
And I feel like shield pushback is practically non-existent so that isn't helping me either. Like, I'll Bair someone at the ledge but it gets shielded and they don't fall off. :/

 

[The 0ne]

I like to use fair, nair, dash attack, and some PK Fire stuff. when they shield, grab.

 

[Ako.]

Does Ike have super armor or something when he up-b or maybe his up-b beats PK thunder 2. Because I hit him with PK thunder 2 while we both were off stage, and I did dmg, but 0 knockback.

 

[Noa.]

Ike does have super armor when he throws his sword up. He also has it on eruption.

 

[Fangblade]

Q:1 Is there any benefit to using Nair? Other than a get-out-of-my-face tool. I'd imagine Fair/Bair are generally better to use.

 

[Ako.]

I find nair to be good for punishing spot dodges. It is also safer and I think have higher priority than fair and bair. fair is good and sometimes can be followed up by another fair, but I notice that when I do a short hop fair, a good player would punish me by shield grabbing me out of it.

 

[Noa.]

Nair is Ness's faster aerial and will do more damage than a fair. Nair is a great move tbh.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Does Ness have any weaknesses in this game I need to focus on when fighting him? I've been fighting you twerps on both versions of the game, but when I feel equal to my opponent, I only ever win when Ness PK Thunders into the wall of a stage. I'm told I can't fall down and get hit by his pk thunder any more to gimp him like in previous games. And I've never managed to SDI out of PK Fire fast enough to avoid the grab followup. If I had to guess, PK fire now starts in the middle of the target it hits, rather than at the point of impact, like in Melee. Ness also typically doesn't approach me, but I'm not going to sit at the side of the stage and wait for him to get tired of long range PK thunder either. Can I swat that out of the air as I approach with an aerial or projectile? Sorry if these questions seem very basic. I'm keeping tabs on 51 different characters, and it's easy to forget such details even if I do find them first hand.

 

[ilysm]

'Twerps'

ouch

Anyhow, yeah, PK Thunder can usually be swatted out of the air. As long as you've got good aim, and a decent fast aerial with some priority, it shouldn't be too big of a problem. A good Ness main will try to curl the tail around you to damage you anyway, but they're kinda few and far between in For Glory from what I've been hearing, and in that event a smart airdodge should put you out of harm's way. As for DI'ing out of PK Fire, all I can say is practice. Up and away from Ness is generally the angle to go for. PK Thunder can still be gimped with good timing, but make sure you have low percent and a lot of guts. Jumping in front of PKT2 will stall its range significantly. If you're confident you won't die, you can go for that. Punish the ending lag on his projectiles, PK Fire more so than PK Thunder. Try to outspace him with longer-range moves when you're close to him. His tiny limbs have always been his second biggest weakness (biggest being spotty recovery).

As far as more advice goes, it's be helpful to know who you main, but. I hope this is helpful as it is. And the questions weren't terribly basic at all, dude, they were totally valid.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

'Twerps'

ouch

Sorry about that, in every smash game I have that one matchup that gets me bitter, whether I win or lose it. Ness has been that character since the first time I fought one of his mains on 3DS.

There are two reasons I didn't mention my mains. The first is that I wanted to first know what advice is good for any character. If you asked me about any of my mains, I could list their various weaknesses based on what sorts of moves they lack, and what issues are unique to them. The second is that I asked a lot of people over the years for advice about their character. When I mention what I'm having trouble with about theirs, they get defensive. They will feel like I'm accusing their character of having a cheap move or strategy that takes no skill. When I mention the character I play, they will bitterly tell me to do this or that better, and to stop complaining. I don't suspect you would do these things, but fighting game communities have many patterns I've learned to avoid.

Back to Ness, i'm still working on a defense against that fair. The move can be frustratingly effective and gets better with move staling, keeping the opponent closer and closer each time their launched. It's quick and has a large, disjointed hitbox. His other aerials and ground moves are shorter range and more precise, but why resort to them when you have a move like that? I'm also from a Melee/PM background, where we didn't have a spammable airdodge panic button. Is that any good after getting launched by fair? There's also PKT2. Massive damage and knockback, difficult to punish after you shield it. Heck, there was a time I was convinced the move was unshieldable. There was never a game where the move was that fast with that large of a hitbox. The only foolproof strategy I have is when I'm playing a character with a counter. No possibility of a trade that way. Shieldgrabbing is ineffective since he'll blow through you. I'm intrigued by allowing yourself to get hit by it to stunt some of the distance, but maybe going for a footstool as the bolt is wrapping around is best. And thank you for the information on his specials.