Harry Potter And the Deathly Mafia - Peeves/Mafia WIN!

[smashman90]

C'mon mentos, I doubt he's that stupid. Nobody is foolish enough to nameclaim this early.

 

[Mediocre]

Hahahaha.

Man, Superstar. You are unbelievable.



Anyhow, I didn't get any information about my attacker other than that they I heard them cast Crucio on me while hiding in the shadows.

 

[Yaya]

Oddly enough, I too found a foe glass, and it showed Mentos in it, so either we are opposite alignments, or it's not that special. I heard a whisper in the room, it said, "Don't be afraid, my friends, the best defense is a good offense!"

I am at school right now, so I can't go deep into this.

 

[smashman90]

I am starting to think that was a false role claim. Nobody is that dumb to do something like that, even new guys know not to do this. Only guy close to doing something like that is that Natirasha dude that ruined Mafia Mafia.

 

[mentosman8]

Ok, that's the same whisper I heard Yaya... So, we were definitely both in the same room... Now the question is, was the foe glass defective, or are you against me. I know my alignment, but I think it would be too much risk, now that we both saw eachother, to lynch out of us today... The chance of a lyncher/similar role is possible with(from my point of view) me as the target is very possible. Also, as I said the foe glass wasn't always accurate in the books, so it may just be there and cursed to confuse us.

 

[Handorin]

Lol i don't remember this happening.
But thats some pretty dumb writing on Rowlings part if it did happen.

actually i remember now, that **** should have definitely not worked.

That's like saying I should never be able to say something German because I cant speak it. Aber, Ich sprechen wenig Deutsch kannen.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

No i refuse to believe it would be so easy and simple to mimic parseltongue. It's ****ing hisses and stuff. You'd would prolly have to get the pitch/tone and stuff right. What so anyone can open the chamber by just hissing. gtfo of here

 

[Superstar]

It's wasn't a dumb nameclaim, for this reason:

However, this could be good in this case... It does change the odds of Marshy mafia to a bit lower than 50/50.

The Marshy thing would have been viewed as 1/3 would I have not nameclaimed. That, and if I died, there'll be confusion over whether I opened it or not. I was going to say "someone else opened it", just to try to drop a hint for the future, but that would have been close enough to a nameclaim anyways.

That, and provided there is a doc, gets us into a very good situation. IF we push, Marshy has to nameclaim, but if he's Voldy, then the real one would nameclaim. If he's real, well, can be protected. However, if there are OTHER roles that can open teh chamber, well...yeh. This is even better because Voldy would likely be the Grandfather, and can't be spotted by night kills.

I am assuming a standard flavor mafia with an adventure twist though, so I don't think Potter would be a PGO Nexus Cop Doc.

No, I am not masons with Potter.

 

[Superstar]

night kills...I mean Cops. >_<

Night Actions was my original intention though, but if he's a Godfather, he likely can't be night killed.

 

[Ronike]

Hmm... oh well. At any rate, tho we could get the Godfather here, we would be trading the nigh certainty of Potter's death for the uncertainty of Voldy's death. For one, we aren't even sure if Marshy is Voldy, and if he isn't he will have killed him. On the other hand, if he isn't hes pretty much screwed anyways now. But if he is Voldy, he prolly has some kill immunities (due to the Horcruxes). At any rate, I see no reason for Marshy to not claim now. Either he is Potter or Voldy, and either way the mafia now knows this, we might as well too. Thoughts???

 

[Superstar]

I was actually just going to say to have the doc protect Marshy, since there is no better target to protect anyways, but...

At any rate, I see no reason for Marshy to not claim now. Either he is Potter or Voldy, and either way the mafia now knows this, we might as well too. Thoughts???

Yeah.

If it IS Potter though, Doc found himself a good buddy.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

um... how would we be able to prove that he is who he says he is. I mean if he nameclaims Harry, the doc should just stay on him all game without knowing whether or not he was lying?

 

[Omis]

The cop, assuming there is one, could investigate him.

 

[Superstar]

If he nameclaims, real Harry can counterclaim. Might not counterclaim depending on role, in which case real Harry should wait a bit before counterclaiming, since if he dies the jig is up and Voldy doesn't need to go out RIGHT away.

I didn't mean all game...of course.

 

[Superstar]

The cop, assuming there is one, could investigate him.

Godfathers turn up town when investigated.

 

[mentosman8]

I love how we're all assuming that Super didn't open the door, and that just because Marshy and him were mentioned by Myrtle they were the only ones in there>_> First of all, we have no proof that Super is telling the truth, that there's not some flavor related to the 7th book that let's him in if he is, we don't even know for sure he's town aligned. But somehow Marshy is getting accused left and right. Second of all, this isn't the books. We have no way to be sure that only Voldy/Harry can open the chamber, so this is ridiculous throwing of suspicion at this point. It may end up being the case, but right now we DO NOT KNOW and we don't want people name/role claiming due to hearsay by an un-insured townie. For all we know he's trying to out things right now

 

[Ronike]

Really? You think a fresh newbie who revealed his role early day 1 is trying to out information? I mean, it has given us some good talk points, but overall it was pretty stupid (no offense). And plus the fact that he claimed Ron (a role that pretty much is definetely going to be in)? And you think he is mafia? If there is a cc, then we have reason to doubt him, but there hasn't been. So UBER FOS: Mentos

 

[smashman90]

We have no way to be sure that only Voldy/Harry can open the chamber, so this is ridiculous throwing of suspicion at this point. It may end up being the case, but right now we DO NOT KNOW and we don't want people name/role claiming due to hearsay by an un-insured townie. For all we know he's trying to out things right now

We already proved it that Ron can open the Chamber. He did it in the Deathly Hallows, which means that it is possible for Ron to open up the chamber in this game as well. Frankly, the main people I'm wanting to vote for is either mentosman or yaya with me leaning towards mentos more and more. Superstar made a very crappy move if he did indeed is Ron.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

We haven't heard from Marshy, so all this is just speculation. Marshy could have very well claimed the same thing had he posted earlier. Right now, Either one could be He who must not be named, or Harry, **** or Ron. Either way they will all come up townie if the Cop investigates him. Your FOS, Ronike, is purely due to the fact Marshy hasnt posted yet. I say we wait to hear what he has to say then we start speculating.

 

[mentosman8]

I don't necessarily say he's mafia. What I say is that there may be flip roles in this game, and more importantly we can NOT base our talks/decisions off of the flavor. Just because him and Marshy were the only one mentioned doesn't mean they were the only ones there, and everyone is jumping on the fact that Marshy has to either be Harry or Voldie. That's what I have the biggest problem with. I mentioned the possibility he was a swing role out of necessity to point out possibilities, the main argument I wanted to make is that the flavor, and the books, do not dictate who did or is able to do what. I was getting annoyed that everyone was saying Marshy had to be Voldie or Harry, and my post was not as clear as I wanted it to be. So let me say this one more time to make sure the point is made.

The flavor, and the books do NOT dictate who did/is able to do anything right now. Two names being mentioned doesn't mean there wasn't a third there. The books saying only Harry and Voldie can speak parseltounge doesn't mean that's the way it is in this game. Or what if Harry did open it, but was under the invisibility cloak(legitimate possibility)? Then we're forcing Marshy to claim a name, and if it's not Harry or Voldie we either out Harry explaining, or lynch him solely on assumption that those are the only two who can open the door and Marshy and Super were the only ones in the room. I don't want to see us have more people aimlessly name-claiming right now when it doesn't necessarily help, and I wanted to jump on any arguments I could see fit to prevent it.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

god ****it. However, mentos, everything so far thats been said has been canonical, so right now it's probably best to assume that only He who must not be named, Ron, and Harry can open it.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

The idea of Harry starting with the invisibility cloak is really interesting. It seems like a plausible idea.

 

[Superstar]

Well, I just gave you details I knew of. Snake on the sink, passageway opening, etc etc. If I made it up, that's a **** load of creativity right there for some clever dastardly deed. I can't prove it minus lynching myself, but that's hella dumb, especially for something that's not clear cut.

I am afraid though, that there may be other roles which can open it. Like I did mention, for all we know, it could be any X mafia member that could do it here, or a 3rd party character not spotted by Mertle. I'm fairly sure though that the only extension if any would be mafia members, but I don't dismiss the possibility of another pro-town with that power.

BTW I'm not a fresh newbie. For SWF yes, but I've played maybe...5 games or so? Either way though I haven't played in months, probably a year.

I do admit a name claim wasn't the best plan. The best plan would be to say "Yeah, it could be Ron that I saw open the door" and pray people would remember I said that so they won't say "Supe opened the door himself day 1". But I suck very very hard at lying. I would have stayed shut if I was, say, a cop, but I'm not.

@Smash - Whether or not Ron opened it there, means nothing about whether Ron did it here.

@Mentos - Invisibility Cloak is a VERY good possibility. 3rd unnamed person. Though if Marshy isn't Harry, best thing would be to say "I'm neither", and best to just keep an eye.

 

[Superstar]

Wait...if he was invisible...how could I "see" him open the door? The figure wasn't named, but there was a figure. And if I could see him, Mertle saw him too.

 

[Ronike]

The point about the invisibility cloak is a good one, but supe's point about seeing a figure is a better one. I guess someone else could have parsletongue... Still though, Marsh should at least comment about this, prolly even pseudoclaim (at least do what supes is saying perhaps)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i don't see why M3D would include an invincibility cloak in the game. Think about it; you already can't see who enters a room. Why would he included strictly for the purpose of not letting myrtle see him.

Actually thinking about it further I can come up with some game uses an invisibility cloak would have. To make someone unwatchable from like trackers and watchers.

heh my post seems unnecessary now, w/e

 

[mentosman8]

Lol, either way I agree Marshy needs to comment. I shrank away from the sudden everyone assuming it must have been him expecting other answers, but he does need to comment.

 

[mentosman8]

Another thought I just had: We could have had a female character open the chamber(Not impossible, someone said they found parseltounge on parchment somewhere), which could explain why Marshy and Super were pointed out by Myrtle, but allowing a third person to have been there to be seen. Overall, we're going to need to keep an eye on Marshy(regardless of what he says when he replies), but there are so many possibilities for what could have happened, we can't just assume he is Harry or Voldie.

Also, if he IS Harry, back to my original point of the whole should-not-have-mentioned the CoS. We kinda knew that's where it was to begin with, and if this outs Harry it could turn into a terrible thing for us.

 

[mentosman8]

Well, I just gave you details I knew of. Snake on the sink, passageway opening, etc etc. If I made it up, that's a **** load of creativity right there for some clever dastardly deed. I can't prove it minus lynching myself, but that's hella dumb, especially for something that's not clear cut.

I am afraid though, that there may be other roles which can open it. Like I did mention, for all we know, it could be any X mafia member that could do it here, or a 3rd party character not spotted by Mertle. I'm fairly sure though that the only extension if any would be mafia members, but I don't dismiss the possibility of another pro-town with that power.

BTW I'm not a fresh newbie. For SWF yes, but I've played maybe...5 games or so? Either way though I haven't played in months, probably a year.

I do admit a name claim wasn't the best plan. The best plan would be to say "Yeah, it could be Ron that I saw open the door" and pray people would remember I said that so they won't say "Supe opened the door himself day 1". But I suck very very hard at lying. I would have stayed shut if I was, say, a cop, but I'm not.

Also Supe, just to make sure you know, there's no real need to defend yourself here. It was a questionable move, telling about the chamber opening/name-claiming, but I don't see any real reason to be suspicious of you. I was just putting out possibilities to kind of ease the bandwagon of big role/mafia suspicion going on with Marshy, since everyone seemed to just assume one of the two was the case.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Wow, it's surprising that in a game where the mod says you actually have to "scum-hunt" to find the mafia, people are relying more than ever on flavour hints to find the mafia. Ironic.

It's funny too because Omis, who has already exhibited some scummy behavior, is just being left alone to slip under the radar while everyone is foaming at the mouth over Super's claim. Let's break this down shall we?

Super went ahead and gave us his little spiel on what "happened" in the girls bathroom. We know he was in there for sure, but beyond that, nothing he says is guaranteed. He's also claimed to be Ron, and considering we've seen no counter claim thus far, it's safe to assume he's telling the truth.

We have a few distinct possibilities in front of us. The best case scenario is that Marshy is indeed the godfather and we've already caught him. Marshy could also be Harry which, if forced to claim, puts him in a pretty dangerous position. I would also like to suggest the distinct possibility that a female NPC (female is very important, I'm inclined to believe that Myrtle won't scream at girls) such as "possessed Ginny" or something along those lines could have opened the passage. And who's to say Super isn't just trying to cover his *** when he, being Ron, could have been the one to open the chamber himself?

Personally, the way Super has been acting has me leaning toward the last possibility.

Why is Super so eager to spill everything? Why does super know so many details about the chamber opening? Why was he inspecting the sink and got a good look at the snake emblem? See where I'm going with this? It seems to me like Super decided to give opening the chamber a shot but then got antsy when people started tossing ideas of name claiming around, combined with myrtles outburst. Sure, he might be Ron who I'm gonna say is probably town aligned, but his reaction screams to me that he's uncomfortable under ANY sort of pressure. This isn't behavior that I wouldn't expect from a new player anyway. In all honesty it seems like he's trying to put what he sees as a mistake (opening the chamber) on someone else to keep himself from coming under fire? Why else would he be so quick to claim and spill everything he knows? Perhaps even, M3D is throwing us for a loop flavor wise (which would make sense as he said he wanted this game to be reliant on scum-hunting, not flavour riding) and Ron is actually mafia aligned. In that case, that explains Super's jumpiness even more.

Point is, we shouldn't be blindly trusting the guy who went nuts after being found out to be in the girl's bathroom and looked to shift attention elsewhere immediately. Hasty conjecture isn't going to help us.

Anyway, moving on...

Omis. How has no one noticed him at all? Look.

What places would seem like good ones to investigate?
Things like dorms seem like they would have already been explored due to not many people not wanting to go anywhere that could be too dangerous.
Do you think that people could work in groups by all going to the same place?
If so, we definitely need 3+ people investigating the DA room.

Well Im trying to see if other people agree that extra numbers in the same room affect each other.

It is definitely very important.
As a town, we need to organize and decide what rooms are and are not of interest. You simply report back your findings and that gives the town more information to work off of.
Would it be a good idea for everyone to post where they were at night?

Trying to manipulate other players to test his own theories? Asking to coordinate exploration efforts despite the fact that there is virtually no way to enforce transparency in the reports that people bring back? Sounds like hes not only just info fishing, but wants to herd us where he wants us to go and create more night predictability. Guess who night predictability ultimately benefits? You guessed it, the mafia.

Vote: Omis

He's my top suspect at the moment I believe he deserves attention equal to the flavour shenanigans we've been dealing with.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

vote: Omis

i agree with FF

 

[Omis]

I dont see where you are coming from with this.
In my opinion, a more organized town is a more successful town. I was trying to see what peoples opinions where regarding night actions considering I dont think we've had any other mafia games like this.

What did you mean by enforce transparency?

 

[Ronike]

While you do pose a good point with the flavor FF, keep in mind that by going through flavor, it could be easy to catch someone in a lie. Just because Marshy claims HP, or Supe's claim for that matter, we shouldnt be completely ruling them out. And yet at the same time we can rely on it some. Afterall, in order for a "side switch" by the mod to be effective, everyone can't be on the opposite side. So yes, though we can't rely completely on flavor, we also cannot rule it out and ignore it, especially on day 1 where we have little else to go on.

Now, as for Omis, at first I didn't think his idea was scummy at. Looking back on it, going in groups is probably not the best idea for the reasons I had first intended, but it does keep the mafia from gaining more info that the town does not have, so I still think it should be on the table. In addition, you attack Omis for having the same ideas I do, and yet you don't go after me? I had the same ideas, supported mostly the same thing, and am now doing exactly what you tell us not to and going with the flavor? Especially after pushing for a Marshy nameclaim because of it, which I doubt you would find acceptable? There are two reasons I can see for this:
A) You skimmed
B) You know Omis is an easier target than I am

FOS: FF

 

[Superstar]

Actually, the sink detail was just a wee bit of flavor tossed in. The sink opened into a passage.

And I was defending from whether it was a good move or not, not from scumminess. I'm spilling stuff because, yes, we are scum hunting. I felt it was a good shot, risky, but good. Since we are playing Mafia, there is not likely to be much stronger than a cop [it depends, sometimes some games have stronger flavor], and a Godfather is one of the hardest things to catch. The only way to catch a Godfather is mostly through sheer guesswork, or if the Godfather messes up. Does this mean only the flavor characters do it, nah, but it's worth a shot.

Seems like a small thing to bag me on...then you go on Omen, which, while his idea is meh, isn't that scummy. His idea may benefit the mafia, but it doesn't mean he was aware of it. You even bring attention to it like this:

Omis. How has no one noticed him at all? Look.

Then Macman jumps on the bagwagon.

I got a TF2 pickup to attend to, have fun.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Why didn't I accuse you Ronike? First of all, you may have had similar ideas but you used different reaosning. Key difference. Furthermore it was clear to me that you weren't thinking your ideas through at all and were just spouting whatever crossed your mind. I didn't feel like giving it any consideration but now that you've more or less asked for it I'll do so. Also, when did I ever implicate that flavour riding was scummy? Certainly I would have accused Super if this were the case, yes? However that isn't the case, I've voted for Omis because I have reason to believe he is mafia OTHER than flavour riding. I simply said flavour riding was giving us tunnel vision and thats a bad thing, but never did I say it implicated scummyness.

Anyway, to address your ideas:

Oh, that is true Marshy, I took the whole "No Lethal N0" thing the wrong way. W/es. Still, say a mafia stumbled upon a roleblocking room. They tell us its, for example, a Room of Requirements of sorts and that they got a spell. A group decides to go and we may have just lost some power roles. I dunno, not entirely likely I guess, but its something to consider.

Plus, if we go in a group, we run down the chance of having a huge number of inconviniences perhaps. I would imagine not all traps would work on everyone who went to a room, but I dunno... Just some thoughts.

Do you honestly believe that the mafia would lie about a room just to roleblock some people for a turn, when the consequence for doing so is revealing yourself as mafia? This strategy would only work in the very late game, and by that time most if not all the rooms will have been explored anyway. Like I said, this is just incomplete thinking on your part.

Something else to think about:

While the town wanders aimlessly about, the mafia is gaining information about every room, 3-4 at a times, while we are kept in the dark 1 room at a time. It would prolly be advantageous to out what rooms we went to, so we know where we have been, and where has yet to be gone. And again, by going in groups, we keep the mafia from gaining extra information that the town lacks.

The mafia already have an informational advantage. In fact, allowing the mafia to obtain MORE private information can be a good thing, especially when the private info can be checked by another source if made to be public discussion. If a mafia member decides to divulge fake information about a room later in the game, provided we haven't made it a ritual to share all info after every night, said mafia member could very easily end up describing a room someone else has been in and be revealed as a liar.

Beyond that though, look at it like a numbers game. Everyone in the game (presumably) will be able to explore the same number of rooms as everyone else. If this is the case, the town (though disjointed) will ultimately learn more than the mafia if everyone keeps their info to themselves. If we all share info, the mafia is gaining the info that the townies acquire in exchange for theirs. Ultimately you're enabling the mafia to become omniscient of the map, and I wouldn't be surprised if the mafia could better use that info for traps, etc. than the town can.

Mmm... I dunno. A mafia member could do quite a number of things to sabotage the room claiming. If they went to a room and found something important, they could easily say they found nothing/traps. Likewise, say the Godfather goes to somewhere with a lot of traps, but being a Godfather has immunity to these. They tell us it had good info, a number of us go off to die/be incapacitated. So I dunno if its a good idea right now.

However, it could be a good idea in the long run, should we go in groups. This eliminates the possibility of lieing about discoveries as you would have to have someone back you up, which is nigh impossible to create should the groups be decided upon by the town.

So yeah, my thoughts for the moment.

As far as sending people in groups to be checks on one another goes, I think the idea fails in application due to the fact that we have no way of knowing if people went to the rooms they were assigned to. As far as I know, you aren't informed of others who went to the same room as you unless there are special circumstances, i.e. Myrtle, etc.

Like I was saying Ronike, I didn't choose to not implicate you because I skimmed or thought you are a tougher target. You just didn't say anything of substance really, and as such, there is absolutely no reason for me to implicate you.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I dont see where you are coming from with this.
In my opinion, a more organized town is a more successful town. I was trying to see what peoples opinions where regarding night actions considering I dont think we've had any other mafia games like this.

What did you mean by enforce transparency?

I more organized town is a more successful town as far as discussion is concerned, and how we decide to use our revealed power roles if any end up being revealed. Other than that though, organization = predictability. Predictability makes it easy for the mafia to sabotage our efforts and minimize any information we try to gain outside of normal discussion. The repercussions should be obvious.

What I mean by enforce transparency is that we have no way to ensure that anyone is telling the truth about what they observe in any room. If they discover some amazing secret, nothing is stopping anyone from saying they just didn't find anything special. If we were to organize like you suggest, we'd be setting ourselves up for the mafia to sabotage for virtually no concrete gain. Plan doesn't sound so good now does it? Try thinking it through REALISTICALLY and not IDEALISTICALLY next time.

Actually, the sink detail was just a wee bit of flavor tossed in. The sink opened into a passage.

And I was defending from whether it was a good move or not, not from scumminess. I'm spilling stuff because, yes, we are scum hunting. I felt it was a good shot, risky, but good. Since we are playing Mafia, there is not likely to be much stronger than a cop [it depends, sometimes some games have stronger flavor], and a Godfather is one of the hardest things to catch. The only way to catch a Godfather is mostly through sheer guesswork, or if the Godfather messes up. Does this mean only the flavor characters do it, nah, but it's worth a shot.

Seems like a small thing to bag me on...then you go on Omen, which, while his idea is meh, isn't that scummy. His idea may benefit the mafia, but it doesn't mean he was aware of it. You even bring attention to it like this:

I don't even know what you're trying to tell me here. The whole you "felt" it was a good idea is what I'm talking about. You just went on impulse and pulled a risky move. This makes me doubt your integrity.

Your logic about mafia hunting is also horribly flawed. Sure, a godfather is harder to gimp than other mafia members but he's no harder to catch than any other mafia member. If you're playing mafia like a game determined by how successful night abilities are, you're playing the game wrong.

You honestly just seem to be spouting nonsense in an attempt to justify your actions but I don't see any convincing or coherent reaosning.

Also, concerning why I attacked Omis, the point was that NO ONE ELSE seemed to have noticed what he did. Are you seriously trying to defend him by saying HE didn't know what he did? Dude, he posted his posts. Of course he knows what he said. It doesn't matter how slight or subtle scum tells are, they're still scum tells and need to be brought to the forefront. I got into this exact same argument in the last game I played here om SWF and my reaosning was the same. Scumtells are scumtells no matter how big or small they are, and sometimes its the smallest ones that are the most imprtant ones.

 

[Omis]

My plan might not have been extremely well thought out. It was more of a place to get some discussion started. Completely bagging on me for trying to get discussion started it quite unfair, if you ask my opinion. It seems to me like you a trying to steer conversation away from the flavor. I dont really think it is the best basis but it seems to hold more water than the vote throwing you've done to me.

 

[Ronike]

FF, I never said that you were implicating the flavor riding was scummy. Thats all Im gonna post cause ihave about three hours to finish a huge program...

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I'm glad that you were trying to get discussion started because that's what it did.

However I'm not bagging you for that. It's for the scum tells that I detailed earlier.

I'm not trying to steer conversation, I'm just trying to bring some balance to it. How is bringing in discussion of something not flavor related to forefront an act of trying to steer conversation away from the flavour? Why can't we have both instead of just ALL flavour discussion? I said I wanted balance and that's what I'm trying to create. Making baseless accusations like that doesn't help your case.

 

[Ronike]

For the record, I agree with FF that discussion of both is good. I still want Marshy to post his ideas about the flavor though.